Homeschooled Knotties shout-out!

[Deleted User] · January 2015

chibiyui said:

This topic frustrates me. I believe that every parent should be able to choose what is best for their kids. But. It seems like such a trend to bash public schools and pull kids for home schooling/private schools, especially for middle and upper middle class. And it just exacerbates the stress on public schools. Instead of involved parents and communities working together, it's broken so why fix it? Politicians bash education as fiscally wasteful, people complain about teachers being paid too much, and the poor get stuck with what the rest of the nation deems unwanted. Former governor Corbett said in response to Philadelphia schools having budgets slashed again who he's supposed to take money from tour fund them. Maybe the loaded school districts surrounding the city who already have great teachers, students who aren't going hungry with books for every kid that aren't 10 years outdated? Free education is one of the cornerstonessential of a successful society. There is no upward mobility without it. I don't begrudge individuals for choosing different, I just wish it didn't adversely effect those who don't have a choice. I'm also frustrated because H wants our future progeny to attend the private school he went to, and I hate that it's probably the best choice for them.
I don't think public school is terrible. If I didn't homeschool my kids or send them to an alternative school (like a hybrid, montessori, etc) I would send them to public over a traditional private. It really depends on the child. I'm a nanny and the family I work for sent their kids all over the place to some of the most expensive schools in the state. Turns out 2 out of 3 love public and will never go back. I don't hate on public schools. However, it's so frustrating to constantly hear how homeschooling is so bad, how do the poor kids get socialization, etc. I think no matter what choice parents make someone will have something to say.
I can understand that. And lord, everybody has an opinion on how other kids should be raised. Lol. That said, what I've seen so far for montessori I like. I should do a little more digging on that, might be a good compromise.

I get what you're saying. That said, since we have to live side by side with other people and the children they raise, I think that is why people feel like they get to have an opinion on what's going on next door.

I do personally find it a little silly that someone I know, who can't get the right to/too/two in a sentence, is educating their kids at home. I feel bad for the kid- they too may end up not learning the proper usage because mom never knew how to use it correctly herself, and then those kids go out into the "real world" and people judge them for it. I also feel bad for the people who then have to read that grown-up kid's correspondence.

That's at least where my brain goes. Fine, don't send your kid to public school/charter school/private school; or do- NBD to me where people learn things as long as they learn them.

steph861 · January 2015

lovemyrunner said:

I went to Catholic schools for 12 years, and in my area there is some debate as to whether they are "better" than public schools. I went to a public university for all of my four degrees, and I will say, I was SHOCKED at the things my peers didn't know. Like how to write a five paragraph essay, or how to cite sources.

I don't plan on sending my children to public schools for the reasons you all have listed. I would add though, that my class sizes in Catholic school weren't any smaller than public schools at the time, around 30-32 students. But I think the expectations were different. You were expected to behave yourself and to meet the academic standards set. I think sometimes public schools set the bar too low, and don't give students credit that they can do better. Of course, there is also the argument that parents who are paying tuition for K-12 are more likely to be involved in their children's lives and schoolwork which also contributes to academic success. And of course, none of these generalizations take into account children with learning disabilities.

I must admit, I'm typically wary of people who homeschool. Those who do so conscientiously probably *are* doing a better job than the school system. But I always wonder about the motivation. Because you know some whack-jobs are doing it so their kids never hear anything but fundamentalist views. You know, those people that treat the Flintstones like it was a fucking documentary, not that this can't happen in public schools too (looking at you, Kansas!). Or the people who don't want their children interacting with brown people and so on and so forth. But, I'd imagine these folks are in the minority.

I went to public school, and while we weren't taught how to cite sources, the five-paragraph essay was drilled into us all through high school. In first-year university, EVERYBODY used the five-paragraph structure and it drove the professors crazy. I had numerous professors say it was a completely useless essay structure for university-level papers and they wished high school teachers would stop teaching it.

ETA

I don't think there's a problem with using the five-paragraph structure as an intro to essay writing, but in senior-level courses, I would have really liked to practice writing more complicated essays.

lovemyrunner · January 2015

steph861 said:

lovemyrunner said:

I went to Catholic schools for 12 years, and in my area there is some debate as to whether they are "better" than public schools. I went to a public university for all of my four degrees, and I will say, I was SHOCKED at the things my peers didn't know. Like how to write a five paragraph essay, or how to cite sources.

I don't plan on sending my children to public schools for the reasons you all have listed. I would add though, that my class sizes in Catholic school weren't any smaller than public schools at the time, around 30-32 students. But I think the expectations were different. You were expected to behave yourself and to meet the academic standards set. I think sometimes public schools set the bar too low, and don't give students credit that they can do better. Of course, there is also the argument that parents who are paying tuition for K-12 are more likely to be involved in their children's lives and schoolwork which also contributes to academic success. And of course, none of these generalizations take into account children with learning disabilities.

I must admit, I'm typically wary of people who homeschool. Those who do so conscientiously probably *are* doing a better job than the school system. But I always wonder about the motivation. Because you know some whack-jobs are doing it so their kids never hear anything but fundamentalist views. You know, those people that treat the Flintstones like it was a fucking documentary, not that this can't happen in public schools too (looking at you, Kansas!). Or the people who don't want their children interacting with brown people and so on and so forth. But, I'd imagine these folks are in the minority.

I went to public school, and while we weren't taught how to cite sources, the five-paragraph essay was drilled into us all through high school. In first-year university, EVERYBODY used the five-paragraph structure and it drove the professors crazy. I had numerous professors say it was a completely useless essay structure for university-level papers and they wished high school teachers would stop teaching it.

ETA
I don't think there's a problem with using the five-paragraph structure as an intro to essay writing, but in senior-level courses, I would have really liked to practice writing more complicated essays.

My point exactly! The five paragraph essay is such a basic structure, that I was shocked so many students didn't learn it. Some of the papers I had to read made me wonder how many English professors were suicidal. That said, my high school chose to teach us MLA style for our papers instead of APA which has been absolutely worthless in my experience. Every class I've ever written for specifies APA format is required.

VulgarGirl · January 2015

lovemyrunner said:
My point exactly! The five paragraph essay is such a basic structure, that I was shocked so many students didn't learn it. Some of the papers I had to read made me wonder how many English professors were suicidal. That said, my high school chose to teach us MLA style for our papers instead of APA which has been absolutely worthless in my experience. Every class I've ever written for specifies APA format is required.

This was my chief complaint in college!!!! I spent years upon years learning the MLA format. I was told I'd never ever use APA. I get to college and all the professors are all "Lets do APA!!" dafuq?

penguin44 · January 2015

lovemyrunner said:

I went to Catholic schools for 12 years, and in my area there is some debate as to whether they are "better" than public schools. I went to a public university for all of my four degrees, and I will say, I was SHOCKED at the things my peers didn't know. Like how to write a five paragraph essay, or how to cite sources.

I don't plan on sending my children to public schools for the reasons you all have listed. I would add though, that my class sizes in Catholic school weren't any smaller than public schools at the time, around 30-32 students. But I think the expectations were different. You were expected to behave yourself and to meet the academic standards set. I think sometimes public schools set the bar too low, and don't give students credit that they can do better. Of course, there is also the argument that parents who are paying tuition for K-12 are more likely to be involved in their children's lives and schoolwork which also contributes to academic success. And of course, none of these generalizations take into account children with learning disabilities.

I must admit, I'm typically wary of people who homeschool. Those who do so conscientiously probably *are* doing a better job than the school system. But I always wonder about the motivation. Because you know some whack-jobs are doing it so their kids never hear anything but fundamentalist views. You know, those people that treat the Flintstones like it was a fucking documentary, not that this can't happen in public schools too (looking at you, Kansas!). Or the people who don't want their children interacting with brown people and so on and so forth. But, I'd imagine these folks are in the minority.

It is exactly opposite in my state. There are no requirements for private schools, so in some cities, the public schools far outrank the private schools. I went to one of the top public schools in the area. I don't know how this judges how educated someone is, but I learned MLA and APA format in middle school. I didn't use either in college because I majored in engineering. We were required to write essays for most classes through high school. My high school offered more AP/college credit courses and more extra curricular activities than most private schools in the area.

I was always more advanced in school than most people in my grade. My dad taught me math and science at home after school. I had the opportunity to test out of 6th and 7th grade math and started Algebra in 7th grade. So public school didn't hold me back in any way. My parents made sure to buy a home in a good school district instead of paying for private school.

paperpusher · January 2015

I was home schooled 8-12. I have to say it was some of the worst years of my life and it is a big portion of why I loathe my mother so much.
My mother's reasoning for homeschooling my sister and I changed daily, but it was mostly "because I wanted to".
I firmly believe it was because the pastor's family of the church we were going to home schooled all of their children and she wanted to. It was the "cool" thing.

I ended up teaching myself. She bought curriculum books at the local bookstore for the grade we were supposed to be in that year and told me to go read them. She never checked my work. She never helped me when I didn't understand something. I had to go to my pastor's wife and ask her my questions because my mother didn't have the time of day.

The only form of socialization I had was going to church where 98% of the congregation was in the later 30s or older.
I believe taking me out of school at such a crucial time and not providing me with proper socialization has caused me to be socially inept.

My 11 and 12 year was combined into one. At the end of what was supposed to be my 11th year and move to 12th I was given the option of going to a local Christian private school or going to college.
I chose college. And that's also another reason why I hate my mother. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. She never nurtured or encouraged me in any aspect. So I went for Liberal Arts and wasted both time and money because she wasn't willing to let me take a year to figure out what the hell I wanted to do with my life.

As for home schooling my kids I haven't decided. I used to say hell no, but with the switch to Common Core it makes me hesitant. If I did home school I will be more involved in my children's lives than my mother ever was and I will seek out and provide opportunities to socialize my child.

levioosa · January 2015

paperpusher said:

I was home schooled 8-12. I have to say it was some of the worst years of my life and it is a big portion of why I loathe my mother so much.
My mother's reasoning for homeschooling my sister and I changed daily, but it was mostly "because I wanted to".
I firmly believe it was because the pastor's family of the church we were going to home schooled all of their children and she wanted to. It was the "cool" thing.

I ended up teaching myself. She bought curriculum books at the local bookstore for the grade we were supposed to be in that year and told me to go read them. She never checked my work. She never helped me when I didn't understand something. I had to go to my pastor's wife and ask her my questions because my mother didn't have the time of day.

The only form of socialization I had was going to church where 98% of the congregation was in the later 30s or older.
I believe taking me out of school at such a crucial time and not providing me with proper socialization has caused me to be socially inept.

My 11 and 12 year was combined into one. At the end of what was supposed to be my 11th year and move to 12th I was given the option of going to a local Christian private school or going to college.
I chose college. And that's also another reason why I hate my mother. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. She never nurtured or encouraged me in any aspect. So I went for Liberal Arts and wasted both time and money because she wasn't willing to let me take a year to figure out what the hell I wanted to do with my life.

As for home schooling my kids I haven't decided. I used to say hell no, but with the switch to Common Core it makes me hesitant. If I did home school I will be more involved in my children's lives than my mother ever was and I will seek out and provide opportunities to socialize my child.

I'm so sorry you had a terrible home schooling experience. It can be so much more than that (which of course you realize). The Common Core also makes me hesitant and I hope a lot of changes have happened by the time I have kids, but you never know.

lurkergirl · January 2015

I am loving this thread!

A couple things...

1. Every child is different and every school is different. It's impossible to make a blanket statement that private/public/home school is best. It's also worth considering that there is more to it than just academics. My sister is an athlete. She did private k-5 and had an awful time socially. Parents debated between public or new private school. They live I one of the best school districts in Georgia, so I really pushed them to go public. They did, and it is the best thing to ever happen to her. She's an athlete and has had so many opportunities with sports that she would've missed out on otherwise (btw, girls' lacrosse is awesome! ) She also went from being everyone's punching bag to a huge social butterfly. Oh, and she's taking high school physics and geometry in 8th grade.

2. I hated common core at first. I still have some issues with it. But it isn't nearly as bad as people think, and I would strongly encourage people to go the the website and actually read the standards for yourself. A good teacher will be a good teacher no matter what standards s/he is required to teach.

3. If you think you're interested in montessori, you should really look on to Reggio Emilia inspired schools. Hell, I want to go to those schools!

Gah, there is just so much more. I think I had a response in my head for almost every post! Who was it that said something about "engrish?" My BFF's parents are immigrants, and she did not learn English until kindergarten. She is an English lit teacher working internationally and hoping to move back here next year to teach at a PUBLIC international school that specializes in helping refugee children transition into regular public schools. See? There are great schools and great teachers out there!

jenna8984 · January 2015

I personally think school should be about more than just learning the subject material. Someone mentioned "we got to sleep late and bang out my work in 3 hours instead of wasting all day". I don't think that's good structure for kids. I think they need to learn to be in the real world- wake up early, sit through crap you don't want to sit through, etc.

Of course the social aspect as well, Lolo said she went to homeschool groups and 4H but those were likely places were all the kids were shy-ish and friendly and you were all skipping and holding hands. Don't get me wrong, I don't think kids should be bullied, but I think they should learn how to be around jerks because again, just another skill you will need in the real world. Plus it's just fucking fun to see your friends and gossip and stuff like that. I had a blast in high school haha

Please no offense, I've interacted with you all and I know you are smart and successful and well adjusted. Just my personal reasons that I would not homeschool.

theartistformerlyknownas · January 2015

jenna8984 said:

I personally think school should be about more than just learning the subject material. Someone mentioned "we got to sleep late and bang out my work in 3 hours instead of wasting all day". I don't think that's good structure for kids. I think they need to learn to be in the real world- wake up early, sit through crap you don't want to sit through, etc.

Of course the social aspect as well, Lolo said she went to homeschool groups and 4H but those were likely places were all the kids were shy-ish and friendly and you were all skipping and holding hands. Don't get me wrong, I don't think kids should be bullied, but I think they should learn how to be around jerks because again, just another skill you will need in the real world. Plus it's just fucking fun to see your friends and gossip and stuff like that. I had a blast in high school haha

Please no offense, I've interacted with you all and I know you are smart and successful and well adjusted. Just my personal reasons that I would not homeschool.

Yeah giant nope to both points. No offense taken, but nope.

lurkergirl · January 2015

jenna8984 said:
I personally think school should be about more than just learning the subject material. Someone mentioned "we got to sleep late and bang out my work in 3 hours instead of wasting all day". I don't think that's good structure for kids. I think they need to learn to be in the real world- wake up early, sit through crap you don't want to sit through, etc.

Of course the social aspect as well, Lolo said she went to homeschool groups and 4H but those were likely places were all the kids were shy-ish and friendly and you were all skipping and holding hands. Don't get me wrong, I don't think kids should be bullied, but I think they should learn how to be around jerks because again, just another skill you will need in the real world. Plus it's just fucking fun to see your friends and gossip and stuff like that. I had a blast in high school haha

Please no offense, I've interacted with you all and I know you are smart and successful and well adjusted. Just my personal reasons that I would not homeschool.

_____________

I totally get what you're saying, but I personally think our society should (and is already to a certain extent) shift away from the whole, "in order to adult, you must have a 4 year degree and crush your soul in a mind numbing cube for at least 40 hours per week (split between 5 dayd, of course because apparently the world would collapse if we all did 4 tens!)

Not saying there isn't a place for that but your point that school structure trains us for life structure is accurate - I just hate that it's accurate if that makes sense.

Edited because mobile tk is stupid

ashley8918 · January 2015

jenna8984 said:

I personally think school should be about more than just learning the subject material. Someone mentioned "we got to sleep late and bang out my work in 3 hours instead of wasting all day". I don't think that's good structure for kids. I think they need to learn to be in the real world- wake up early, sit through crap you don't want to sit through, etc.

Of course the social aspect as well, Lolo said she went to homeschool groups and 4H but those were likely places were all the kids were shy-ish and friendly and you were all skipping and holding hands. Don't get me wrong, I don't think kids should be bullied, but I think they should learn how to be around jerks because again, just another skill you will need in the real world. Plus it's just fucking fun to see your friends and gossip and stuff like that. I had a blast in high school haha

Please no offense, I've interacted with you all and I know you are smart and successful and well adjusted. Just my personal reasons that I would not homeschool.

To the bolded: Really? You really, honestly think this? Why? Based on what?

So not being snotty; I'm genuinely curious. It's seems strange to assume that there were no jerks (because there are jerks fucking everywhere) and they all held hands and sang kumbaya like they were in some sort of happy-sunshine commune.

theartistformerlyknownas · January 2015

If anything home schooling prepared me much more adequately for the real world. In the real world, people don't force feed you all the information you need - you often have to go out and find it for yourself. You don't have a bell ringing every hour to send you to your next task - you have to manage your own timelines. You don't have ready-made friends in the people who sit next to you - you have to go out and find them. You have people constantly challenging you and your abilities/personal traits because of preconceived notions and gross generalizations.

ashley8918 · January 2015

lolo883 said:

If anything home schooling prepared me much more adequately for the real world. In the real world, people don't force feed you all the information you need - you often have to go out and find it for yourself. You don't have a bell ringing every hour to send you to your next task - you have to manage your own timelines. You don't have ready-made friends in the people who sit next to you - you have to go out and find them. You have people constantly challenging you and your abilities/personal traits because of preconceived notions and gross generalizations.

Huh. I never thought about a lot of these things, but I totally agree. School is NOTHING like real life, regardless of what other benefits it may or may not have.

jenna8984 · January 2015

lurkergirl said:

I personally think school should be about more than just learning the subject material. Someone mentioned "we got to sleep late and bang out my work in 3 hours instead of wasting all day". I don't think that's good structure for kids. I think they need to learn to be in the real world- wake up early, sit through crap you don't want to sit through, etc.

Of course the social aspect as well, Lolo said she went to homeschool groups and 4H but those were likely places were all the kids were shy-ish and friendly and you were all skipping and holding hands. Don't get me wrong, I don't think kids should be bullied, but I think they should learn how to be around jerks because again, just another skill you will need in the real world. Plus it's just fucking fun to see your friends and gossip and stuff like that. I had a blast in high school haha

Please no offense, I've interacted with you all and I know you are smart and successful and well adjusted. Just my personal reasons that I would not homeschool.
_____________ I totally get what you're saying, but I personally think our society should (and is already to a certain extent) shift away from the whole, "in order to adult, you must have a 4 year degree and crush your soul in a mind numbing cube for at least 40 hours per week (split between 5 dayd, of course because apparently the world would collapse if we all did 4 tens!) Not saying there isn't a place for that but your point that school structure trains us for life structure is accurate - I just hate that it's accurate if that makes sense. Edited because mobile tk is stupid

I agree. I didn't say it prepared people for a 8-5 office job...but even if you're a garbage man you need to learn to wake your ass up and put in 8 hours of work. Or whatever other profession-photographer needs to be punctual, writers have deadlines to meet, etc. It's easier (in my eyes) if you grew up already used to doing those things instead of doing things "when you wanted".

jenna8984 · January 2015

ashley8918 said:

jenna8984 said:

I personally think school should be about more than just learning the subject material. Someone mentioned "we got to sleep late and bang out my work in 3 hours instead of wasting all day". I don't think that's good structure for kids. I think they need to learn to be in the real world- wake up early, sit through crap you don't want to sit through, etc.

Of course the social aspect as well, Lolo said she went to homeschool groups and 4H but those were likely places were all the kids were shy-ish and friendly and you were all skipping and holding hands. Don't get me wrong, I don't think kids should be bullied, but I think they should learn how to be around jerks because again, just another skill you will need in the real world. Plus it's just fucking fun to see your friends and gossip and stuff like that. I had a blast in high school haha

Please no offense, I've interacted with you all and I know you are smart and successful and well adjusted. Just my personal reasons that I would not homeschool.

To the bolded: Really? You really, honestly think this? Why? Based on what?

So not being snotty; I'm genuinely curious. It's seems strange to assume that there were no jerks (because there are jerks fucking everywhere) and they all held hands and sang kumbaya like they were in some sort of happy-sunshine commune.

hahahah I have no fucking clue. I guess I just pulled that out of my asshole and you made me laugh. I would imagine homeschool groups are all friendly because if it's their only social event of the week, why would they be jerks to the other people? Like class had some bullies but when I went to Girl Scouts on Monday nights there weren't really bullies there, it was a friendly thing. So I would liken the two. Guess I don't have anywhere to go with this theory.

lurkergirl · January 2015

jenna8984 said:

lurkergirl said:

jenna8984 said:
I personally think school should be about more than just learning the subject material. Someone mentioned "we got to sleep late and bang out my work in 3 hours instead of wasting all day". I don't think that's good structure for kids. I think they need to learn to be in the real world- wake up early, sit through crap you don't want to sit through, etc.

Of course the social aspect as well, Lolo said she went to homeschool groups and 4H but those were likely places were all the kids were shy-ish and friendly and you were all skipping and holding hands. Don't get me wrong, I don't think kids should be bullied, but I think they should learn how to be around jerks because again, just another skill you will need in the real world. Plus it's just fucking fun to see your friends and gossip and stuff like that. I had a blast in high school haha

Please no offense, I've interacted with you all and I know you are smart and successful and well adjusted. Just my personal reasons that I would not homeschool.
_____________

I totally get what you're saying, but I personally think our society should (and is already to a certain extent) shift away from the whole, "in order to adult, you must have a 4 year degree and crush your soul in a mind numbing cube for at least 40 hours per week (split between 5 dayd, of course because apparently the world would collapse if we all did 4 tens!)

Not saying there isn't a place for that but your point that school structure trains us for life structure is accurate - I just hate that it's accurate if that makes sense.

Edited because mobile tk is stupid

I agree. I didn't say it prepared people for a 8-5 office job...but even if you're a garbage man you need to learn to wake your ass up and put in 8 hours of work. Or whatever other profession-photographer needs to be punctual, writers have deadlines to meet, etc. It's easier (in my eyes) if you grew up already used to doing those things instead of doing things "when you wanted".

________

I feel like logo's post adequately addresses that though. And it goes back to the idea that every kid is so so different. Yes, some kids desperately need structure. Other kids just don't need as much - they might thrive on more organic learning settings (they are often our future artists!)

ETA: The responsibility to teach kids how to function in society lies far more with families regardless of how the child is educated.

theartistformerlyknownas · January 2015

jenna8984 said:

lurkergirl said:

jenna8984 said:
I personally think school should be about more than just learning the subject material. Someone mentioned "we got to sleep late and bang out my work in 3 hours instead of wasting all day". I don't think that's good structure for kids. I think they need to learn to be in the real world- wake up early, sit through crap you don't want to sit through, etc.

Of course the social aspect as well, Lolo said she went to homeschool groups and 4H but those were likely places were all the kids were shy-ish and friendly and you were all skipping and holding hands. Don't get me wrong, I don't think kids should be bullied, but I think they should learn how to be around jerks because again, just another skill you will need in the real world. Plus it's just fucking fun to see your friends and gossip and stuff like that. I had a blast in high school haha

Please no offense, I've interacted with you all and I know you are smart and successful and well adjusted. Just my personal reasons that I would not homeschool.
_____________

I totally get what you're saying, but I personally think our society should (and is already to a certain extent) shift away from the whole, "in order to adult, you must have a 4 year degree and crush your soul in a mind numbing cube for at least 40 hours per week (split between 5 dayd, of course because apparently the world would collapse if we all did 4 tens!)

Not saying there isn't a place for that but your point that school structure trains us for life structure is accurate - I just hate that it's accurate if that makes sense.

Edited because mobile tk is stupid

I agree. I didn't say it prepared people for a 8-5 office job...but even if you're a garbage man you need to learn to wake your ass up and put in 8 hours of work. Or whatever other profession-photographer needs to be punctual, writers have deadlines to meet, etc. It's easier (in my eyes) if you grew up already used to doing those things instead of doing things "when you wanted".

Sorry, there's a lot more to life than waking up early. She specifically said that if choosing to indulge in sleeping in, they had to then sacrifice later play time to complete school work. That's a damn important life skill to have.

ashley8918 · January 2015

jenna8984 said:

ashley8918 said:

jenna8984 said:

I personally think school should be about more than just learning the subject material. Someone mentioned "we got to sleep late and bang out my work in 3 hours instead of wasting all day". I don't think that's good structure for kids. I think they need to learn to be in the real world- wake up early, sit through crap you don't want to sit through, etc.

Of course the social aspect as well, Lolo said she went to homeschool groups and 4H but those were likely places were all the kids were shy-ish and friendly and you were all skipping and holding hands. Don't get me wrong, I don't think kids should be bullied, but I think they should learn how to be around jerks because again, just another skill you will need in the real world. Plus it's just fucking fun to see your friends and gossip and stuff like that. I had a blast in high school haha

Please no offense, I've interacted with you all and I know you are smart and successful and well adjusted. Just my personal reasons that I would not homeschool.

To the bolded: Really? You really, honestly think this? Why? Based on what?

So not being snotty; I'm genuinely curious. It's seems strange to assume that there were no jerks (because there are jerks fucking everywhere) and they all held hands and sang kumbaya like they were in some sort of happy-sunshine commune.

hahahah I have no fucking clue. I guess I just pulled that out of my asshole and you made me laugh. I would imagine homeschool groups are all friendly because if it's their only social event of the week, why would they be jerks to the other people? Like class had some bullies but when I went to Girl Scouts on Monday nights there weren't really bullies there, it was a friendly thing. So I would liken the two. Guess I don't have anywhere to go with this theory.

Haha, i'm happy I could give you a laugh

But yeah, I definitely don't think this is the case. Jerks are jerks, no matter what environment they are in, so it doesn't make sense that anyone would cease being their jerky jerk selves just because they were attending a home school group meeting, or whatever.

hellosweetie1015 · January 2015

ashley8918 said:

jenna8984 said:

I personally think school should be about more than just learning the subject material. Someone mentioned "we got to sleep late and bang out my work in 3 hours instead of wasting all day". I don't think that's good structure for kids. I think they need to learn to be in the real world- wake up early, sit through crap you don't want to sit through, etc.

Of course the social aspect as well, Lolo said she went to homeschool groups and 4H but those were likely places were all the kids were shy-ish and friendly and you were all skipping and holding hands. Don't get me wrong, I don't think kids should be bullied, but I think they should learn how to be around jerks because again, just another skill you will need in the real world. Plus it's just fucking fun to see your friends and gossip and stuff like that. I had a blast in high school haha

Please no offense, I've interacted with you all and I know you are smart and successful and well adjusted. Just my personal reasons that I would not homeschool.

To the bolded: Really? You really, honestly think this? Why? Based on what?

So not being snotty; I'm genuinely curious. It's seems strange to assume that there were no jerks (because there are jerks fucking everywhere) and they all held hands and sang kumbaya like they were in some sort of happy-sunshine commune.

Um. I was bullied far far harder, as a homeschooled child, than I ever was in traditional school. I was bullied at church, and at the youth sports organization where my siblings and I played base/softball, and on the soccer team I participated in. Literally the only place I ever felt like I fit in was the drama group I was involved in, and that had nothing to do with the makeup of the people in the class, educationwise, and everything to do with the fact that it was a bunch of weird kids getting together and quoting Shakespeare. Weird kids get bullied whether they're homeschooled or not. Eta: my last sentence was not worded correctly. I know normal kids get bullied too, but kids who don't conform (like myself) always seem to get the shit end of it.

WinstonsGirl · January 2015

I'm pretty no towards home schooling, though that's based on the experiences I have as a teacher when home schooled kids have shown up in my classes. All of them are way behind. I know my province has special criteria home schooled kids need to meet, but I get the impression it's not strongly enforced.

One student came into grade 7 after being home schooled her entire life. Mom swore up and down that she was so smart and going to be a Doctor. She couldn't read. Not even simple words like 'cat'. She was willing to work so she jumped up 2-3 grade levels that year in her reading and writing ability, but she was also tested as having LD and being several grades below grade level. I just think a special needs teacher in a literacy program would have helped her so much more that home schooling.

I also think our public education system in Canada is much different than in the US. My impression from hearing people talk, TV, housing shows, etc. is that a lot of public schools in the US are not great places to attend (I know this can vary depending on where you live, but the general impression I've been given from media is that private schooling is the popular choice in the US). Our public schools operate on an open boundary policy, unless there are way too many kids in the neighbourhood (like my school). I think there are under 10 schools like this in my city.

Parents can send their kid to any school with space anywhere in the board. Or they can go to the Catholic board. We offer tons of different programming routes - language immersion, IB/academic challenge, cogito, religious programming, sport performance/high level athlete programs, military, dance, etc. It creates a lot of competition between schools which I think is missing in the US where you go based on address.

I attended my regular schools from K-12 and wouldn't home school my kids if we were to have them. I'm a teacher, but I can't imagine spending all day with them. I think I'd like the break from them.

ETA - paragraph

jenna8984 · January 2015

hellosweetie1015 said:

Um. I was bullied far far harder, as a homeschooled child, than I ever was in traditional school. I was bullied at church, and at the youth sports organization where my siblings and I played base/softball, and on the soccer team I participated in. Literally the only place I ever felt like I fit in was the drama group I was involved in, and that had nothing to do with the makeup of the people in the class, educationwise, and everything to do with the fact that it was a bunch of weird kids getting together and quoting Shakespeare. Weird kids get bullied whether they're homeschooled or not. Eta: my last sentence was not worded correctly. I know normal kids get bullied too, but kids who don't conform (like myself) always seem to get the shit end of it.

Aaaw. Point taken. That makes me sad!

(When I said kids should be exposed to that, I just meant "you can't sit with us, you didn't get picked first for the team". Not anything cruel)

velvethelicopters · January 2015

Public school wasn't any fun, but it was 8 hours or more away from the narcissistic she demon. Frequently moreas sshe'd be too busy to pick me up so I'd hang out with friends until I eventually had to go home. Only time she cared was if I was gone and there was no one else around to vent her narcissistic rage at. I was away for over 6 days once at 12 and she didn't notice. When I ran away for good, it was 19 days before she noticed and 27 days before she filed a missing child report.

I can't have positive ideas of home school. The few I knew were just as fucked up. I understand it works for some, but when parents are fucked up nightmares who are about indoctrination into a cult over practical and functional knowledge, well, home schooling sucks.

theartistformerlyknownas · January 2015

velvethelicopters said:
Public school wasn't any fun, but it was 8 hours or more away from the narcissistic she demon. Frequently moreas sshe'd be too busy to pick me up so I'd hang out with friends until I eventually had to go home. Only time she cared was if I was gone and there was no one else around to vent her narcissistic rage at. I was away for over 6 days once at 12 and she didn't notice. When I ran away for good, it was 19 days before she noticed and 27 days before she filed a missing child report.

I can't have positive ideas of home school. The few I knew were just as fucked up. I understand it works for some, but when parents are fucked up nightmares who are about indoctrination into a cult over practical and functional knowledge, well, home schooling sucks.

I don't really think this is fair. You have problems with your mom, not with the institution of homeschooling.

hellosweetie1015 · January 2015

jenna8984 said:

hellosweetie1015 said:

Um. I was bullied far far harder, as a homeschooled child, than I ever was in traditional school. I was bullied at church, and at the youth sports organization where my siblings and I played base/softball, and on the soccer team I participated in. Literally the only place I ever felt like I fit in was the drama group I was involved in, and that had nothing to do with the makeup of the people in the class, educationwise, and everything to do with the fact that it was a bunch of weird kids getting together and quoting Shakespeare.

Weird kids get bullied whether they're homeschooled or not.

Eta: my last sentence was not worded correctly. I know normal kids get bullied too, but kids who don't conform (like myself) always seem to get the shit end of it.

Aaaw. Point taken. That makes me sad!

(When I said kids should be exposed to that, I just meant "you can't sit with us, you didn't get picked first for the team". Not anything cruel)

I mean, it's not sad, not for me. I turned out no worse for it overall, and it's nothing compared to stories I've heard on here from other ladies. It's just that I wanted you to understand that homeschool doesn't always equal making daisy crowns in a clover field with all the other people you know. Assholes are everywhere, and the only way they're avoidable is if you avoid everyone on the planet.

theartistformerlyknownas · January 2015

@hellosweetie1015‌ I think you turned out pretty damn awesome.

velvethelicopters · January 2015

lolo883 said:

velvethelicopters said:
Public school wasn't any fun, but it was 8 hours or more away from the narcissistic she demon. Frequently moreas sshe'd be too busy to pick me up so I'd hang out with friends until I eventually had to go home. Only time she cared was if I was gone and there was no one else around to vent her narcissistic rage at. I was away for over 6 days once at 12 and she didn't notice. When I ran away for good, it was 19 days before she noticed and 27 days before she filed a missing child report.

I can't have positive ideas of home school. The few I knew were just as fucked up. I understand it works for some, but when parents are fucked up nightmares who are about indoctrination into a cult over practical and functional knowledge, well, home schooling sucks.
I don't really think this is fair. You have problems with your mom, not with the institution of homeschooling.

I know a handful of home schooled people in IRL. Either they had similar problems to me, granted usually to a lesser extent, or they are enmeshed in the cult type mentality.

IRL, I haven't seen home schooling done well. My version is an extremely bad example, but it's similar to the norm I've seen.

hellosweetie1015 · January 2015

velvethelicopters said:
Public school wasn't any fun, but it was 8 hours or more away from the narcissistic she demon. Frequently moreas sshe'd be too busy to pick me up so I'd hang out with friends until I eventually had to go home. Only time she cared was if I was gone and there was no one else around to vent her narcissistic rage at. I was away for over 6 days once at 12 and she didn't notice. When I ran away for good, it was 19 days before she noticed and 27 days before she filed a missing child report.

I can't have positive ideas of home school. The few I knew were just as fucked up. I understand it works for some, but when parents are fucked up nightmares who are about indoctrination into a cult over practical and functional knowledge, well, home schooling sucks.

This breaks my heart. Your "mom" was not meant to be a mom, and I just want to share my mom with you. Because my mother is the whole, entire reason why homeschooling IS such a viable option in my mind. We have always had a fantastic relationship, and I do feel like it's attributable in some part to my having been taught by her for the majority of my schooling.

VulgarGirl · January 2015

My peers taught me the following: don't be too smart, try not to stand out, don't go against the norm, don't be gay, that no one can come up with creative slurs (yes dyke I heard you), don't rat, shitty people are shitty, shitty people are often praised by those in charge, Mormons are fucking awesome at baking (and were usually really cool to me, not a single Mormon kid bullied me), some people have a really fucking warped view of God.

My teaches taught me: keep your head down, walk away, don't flaunt yourself, try to blend in, they have a right to their beliefs.

Thankfully I'm fucking hard headed and few of these lessons stuck. Except the Mormons. I always give the missionaries water and am polite to them. Even if I'm never gonna join up and disagree with a lot of their church's teachings. I remember the kindness those kids showed me.

hellosweetie1015 · January 2015

lolo883 said:
@hellosweetie1015‌ I think you turned out pretty damn awesome.

Awww *insert SpongeBob blushing gif here*

Homeschooled Knotties shout-out!

Re: Homeschooled Knotties shout-out!

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