Did you have a POA before your marriage?

nhultberg461 · January 2015

Did the discussion of a power of attorney come up prior to getting married?

Where you aware of what your fiancé/husband/wife/so would want if something happened where they were no longer able to make their own medical decisions? Do you think that this is an important issue to discuss prior to walking down the aisle or important regardless?

We ran into this, and he choose me as his medical power of attorney, and made choices at the time (meaning we didn't really have a chance to discuss prior). Now we have fully discussed to the best of our abilities, and have a current POA both medical and financial. I now have a clearer understanding of his wishes as well. But if something were to happen to me, I cannot leave my care in his hands, yet. My parents/grandparents would step in until he's able to help.

chibiyui · January 2015

nhultberg461 said:
Did the discussion of a power of attorney come up prior to getting married?
Where you aware of what your fiancé/husband/wife/so would want if something happened where they were no longer able to make their own medical decisions? Do you think that this is an important issue to discuss prior to walking down the aisle or important regardless?
We ran into this, and he choose me as his medical power of attorney, and made choices at the time (meaning we didn't really have a chance to discuss prior). Now we have fully discussed to the best of our abilities, and have a current POA both medical and financial. I now have a clearer understanding of his wishes as well. But if something were to happen to me, I cannot leave my care in his hands, yet. My parents/grandparents would step in until he's able to help.

Que?

mikenberger · January 2015

nhultberg461 said:

Did the discussion of a power of attorney come up prior to getting married?
Where you aware of what your fiancé/husband/wife/so would want if something happened where they were no longer able to make their own medical decisions? Do you think that this is an important issue to discuss prior to walking down the aisle or important regardless?
We ran into this, and he choose me as his medical power of attorney, and made choices at the time (meaning we didn't really have a chance to discuss prior). Now we have fully discussed to the best of our abilities, and have a current POA both medical and financial. I now have a clearer understanding of his wishes as well. But if something were to happen to me, I cannot leave my care in his hands, yet. My parents/grandparents would step in until he's able to help.

Yes, I am aware of what FI wants and he is aware of what I want in case something were to happen and one of us were vegetative or in some other state where we couldn't give consent. But we don't have a POA for each other. But my family clearly knows what I want as well should something happen to me, so there wouldn't be too much fighting.

Is this one of those things you should've written down and thrown away?

nhultberg461 · January 2015

If you were in a bad accident and you could not make your own medical decisions, did you discuss this prior so that you were both on the same page as what to do?

Example, do you want to be kept alive by machines, would you want a feeding tube, how long to keep you on life support?

I know we didn't talk about it, until we were forced into the situation, but was wondering how others handled it.

maeday2 · January 2015

Firstly, FI knows my wishes and the inverse is also true.

Am I wrong to assume that those decisions would automatically be deferred to him if I'm incapable once married?

JennyColada · January 2015

I once asked him if he'd rather be the one to get the news about a serious accident, or give the news of a serious accident.

We both agreed that he's more level headed than my mom and would likely do better at handling the situation than her.

So...sort of I guess? I trust his judgement and I know that he'd rather be gone than "useless". But he also said that I should make the choice depending on what I need at the time. I guess it's sweet that even in the ecen of a serious accident that he's putting my needs above all else.

nhultberg461 · January 2015

mikenberger said:

nhultberg461 said:

Did the discussion of a power of attorney come up prior to getting married?
Where you aware of what your fiancé/husband/wife/so would want if something happened where they were no longer able to make their own medical decisions? Do you think that this is an important issue to discuss prior to walking down the aisle or important regardless?
We ran into this, and he choose me as his medical power of attorney, and made choices at the time (meaning we didn't really have a chance to discuss prior). Now we have fully discussed to the best of our abilities, and have a current POA both medical and financial. I now have a clearer understanding of his wishes as well. But if something were to happen to me, I cannot leave my care in his hands, yet. My parents/grandparents would step in until he's able to help.

Yes, I am aware of what FI wants and he is aware of what I want in case something were to happen and one of us were vegetative or in some other state where we couldn't give consent. But we don't have a POA for each other. But my family clearly knows what I want as well should something happen to me, so there wouldn't be too much fighting.

Is this one of those things you should've written down and thrown away?

I get that part but I don't think this is one I should have written down, it's actually something that might want to be thought about prior.

But if you aren't married, and without a Power of Attorney, in the event of an emergency, you really don't have a say, that's why I asked. Once you're are married it is different.

larrygaga · January 2015

maeday2 said:
Firstly, FI knows my wishes and the inverse is also true.

Am I wrong to assume that those decisions would automatically be deferred to him if I'm incapable once married?

They will be deferred to you if you have a POA. Otherwise there is a lengthy court process to become his guardian and you won't have as much decision making capability. You don't have rights to make life or death decisions unless you have a full guardianship or a POA. At least in Michigan.

Everyone should have their power of attorney filled out and have that life sustaining discussion. It's very easy to fill out and once it's done it's honored. I fill them out with families several times a week and the Michigan one is very in depth and it usually only takes 30 minutes. So all states should be easy. Please have it done. You can't just make these decisions because you are the spouse, the spouse authorizes you through POA. Have it done BEFORE anything happens.

I only know the American rules not sure if it's the same In other places.

Make it easier on everyone else and just get it in legal writing.

There are lots of lawyers on these boards who might know other states. I know Michigan honors all states so even moving isn't a problem.

It's best to research and have the peace of mind. Always plan for emergencies.

relliotts · January 2015

Having a POA is good, but I will also say from personal experience that the best idea is to also have a living will/advance health care directive. Discussing your wishes and being on the same page as your spouse and family is one thing, but when something actually happens and emotions take over it can become very difficult to follow that person's wishes. It can be very difficult to let go of someone, even if you know that that is what they want. Having a living will/advance directive will ensure that the medical staff - who have no personal investment that may color their actions and decisions - will follow your wishes. This also takes the burden off of your family, so that they don't have to deal with the pressure of making any major decisions in the moment.

KatWAG · January 2015

nhultberg461 said:

Did the discussion of a power of attorney come up prior to getting married?

Where you aware of what your fiancé/husband/wife/so would want if something happened where they were no longer able to make their own medical decisions? Do you think that this is an important issue to discuss prior to walking down the aisle or important regardless?

We ran into this, and he choose me as his medical power of attorney, and made choices at the time (meaning we didn't really have a chance to discuss prior). Now we have fully discussed to the best of our abilities, and have a current POA both medical and financial. I now have a clearer understanding of his wishes as well. But if something were to happen to me, I cannot leave my care in his hands, yet. My parents/grandparents would step in until he's able to help.

-----

to the bolded... what???

If you have signed a legal document stating who your POA is, why wouldnt "your care be in his hands yet?" Are you under 18?

Yes, H and I have had this discuss. We also have a will and trust set up with all of these documents.

maeday2 · January 2015

larrygaga said:

Firstly, FI knows my wishes and the inverse is also true.

Am I wrong to assume that those decisions would automatically be deferred to him if I'm incapable once married?
They will be deferred to you if you have a POA. Otherwise there is a lengthy court process to become his guardian and you won't have as much decision making capability. You don't have rights to make life or death decisions unless you have a full guardianship or a POA. At least in Michigan. Everyone should have their power of attorney filled out and have that life sustaining discussion. It's very easy to fill out and once it's done it's honored. I fill them out with families several times a week and the Michigan one is very in depth and it usually only takes 30 minutes. So all states should be easy. Please have it done. You can't just make these decisions because you are the spouse, the spouse authorizes you through POA. Have it done BEFORE anything happens. I only know the American rules not sure if it's the same In other places. Make it easier on everyone else and just get it in legal writing.

Makes sense. I remember signing these for my parents (in case either of them are incapable) and the morbidity freaked me out.

Thanks for educating me!

hellosweetie1015 · January 2015

mikenberger said:

nhultberg461 said:

Did the discussion of a power of attorney come up prior to getting married?
Where you aware of what your fiancé/husband/wife/so would want if something happened where they were no longer able to make their own medical decisions? Do you think that this is an important issue to discuss prior to walking down the aisle or important regardless?
We ran into this, and he choose me as his medical power of attorney, and made choices at the time (meaning we didn't really have a chance to discuss prior). Now we have fully discussed to the best of our abilities, and have a current POA both medical and financial. I now have a clearer understanding of his wishes as well. But if something were to happen to me, I cannot leave my care in his hands, yet. My parents/grandparents would step in until he's able to help.

Yes, I am aware of what FI wants and he is aware of what I want in case something were to happen and one of us were vegetative or in some other state where we couldn't give consent. But we don't have a POA for each other. But my family clearly knows what I want as well should something happen to me, so there wouldn't be too much fighting.

Is this one of those things you should've written down and thrown away?

To the bolded, I don't think so. Because it is kind of important. I don't think FI knows what I would want if something happened to me. I don't even know what I want if something were to happen to me. And I don't know what FI would want, in the reverse.

I think it's something that everyone should talk about - BEFORE it becomes a necessity.

To @maeday2 - yes, as I understand it, and in my state, you are at least partially wrong. If your parents have your POA, then their POA is active until it's updated to your FI. I don't know about what happens if there isn't a POA in existence, but - for instance - right now, FFIL has FI's POA. Which means, essentially, that unless and until it's updated to include me, then FFIL can, legally, ignore whatever I have to say in the event that something happens to FI, and I have absolutely zero recourse. If FI told me he wanted to be taken off life support if his other option was to be a vegetable, and he failed to tell FFIL, then FFIL can legally completely override my voice.

[Deleted User] · January 2015

nhultberg461 · January 2015

KatWAG said:

nhultberg461 said:

Did the discussion of a power of attorney come up prior to getting married?

Where you aware of what your fiancé/husband/wife/so would want if something happened where they were no longer able to make their own medical decisions? Do you think that this is an important issue to discuss prior to walking down the aisle or important regardless?

We ran into this, and he choose me as his medical power of attorney, and made choices at the time (meaning we didn't really have a chance to discuss prior). Now we have fully discussed to the best of our abilities, and have a current POA both medical and financial. I now have a clearer understanding of his wishes as well. But if something were to happen to me, I cannot leave my care in his hands, yet. My parents/grandparents would step in until he's able to help.

-----

to the bolded... what???

If you have signed a legal document stating who your POA is, why wouldnt "your care be in his hands yet?" Are you under 18?

Yes, H and I have had this discuss. We also have a will and trust set up with all of these documents.

He is unable to make those choices for me, he has aphasia. And I'm above 18.

theartistformerlyknownas · January 2015

We've talked about it a little bit, and have it lumped into a long list of "how to grown up" tasks to accomplish within the next few months, along with wills, trusts, life insurance, college savings plans for future kid(s), etc. I have some advanced directive stuff that my doctor gave me to fill out together that they'll keep on file at the office.

Generally though I know that my parents are on the same page as I am though when it comes to end of life decisions, so I'm not too concerned about it ATM.

climbingsingle · January 2015

We've had this discussion. We're both aware of what the other wants, as far as medical interventions and what should happen.

larrygaga · January 2015

Yeah it's a scary document but it's so so important. Since most of you are young, remember the Terry Schavio case? Just because you don't think or want anything to happen doesn't mean it won't happen.

nhultberg461 · January 2015

What I have learned, is that even if you are aware of their wishes, unless you have a POA with their wishes, the hospital/doctors will continue with what they believe, but if you have it written and clear instructions, then they listen to your concerns and wishes.

As for visiting, I believe it's up to the hospital staff, as well as the patients wishes. If you have POA you can limit who reiceves medical information.

wrigleyville · January 2015

H and I did not have a POA before we were married. I had a living will, which I'd drawn up while I was in grad school. I made adjustments to it once we were engaged.

H became the first beneficiary on my life insurance once we were engaged, and I added him to my bank accounts as well.

theartistformerlyknownas · January 2015

FYI this is what my doctor gave me to fill out. I have to mail it in then they'll file it and send me back a copy.

http://www.agingwithdignity.org/five-wishes.php

VulgarGirl · January 2015

When we got engaged 8 years ago the world was a frighteningly different place and we both understood that even once we got married, we would have little to no legal rights in this country. We began discussing POAs at that time.

But it wasn't until my mom got sick and the hospital tried to bar her partner from even seeing her let alone making medical decisions for her, that we actual sat down and got the CYA paperwork we needed.

So yes, we've had POAs in place prior to our marriage. We also have wills that will be updated when we procreate.

BrandNewJ · January 2015

larrygaga said:

Yeah it's a scary document but it's so so important. Since most of you are young, remember the Terry Schavio case? Just because you don't think or want anything to happen doesn't mean it won't happen.

When I was getting my MSW, my focus was end of life. I did a presentation on the Terry Schavio case and...

lolo883 said:

FYI this is what my doctor gave me to fill out. I have to mail it in then they'll file it and send me back a copy.
http://www.agingwithdignity.org/five-wishes.php

Gave everyone a copy of 5 wishes after.

If this is a concern, you should fill out an advanced health care directive as a pp said. That is a legally binding piece of paper, at least in CA, and the doctors and social workers must follow it. You should be able to find a copy on your states website. 5 wishes isn't legally binding here, but it is more inclusive of what the person may want including religious services. While not legally binding, we made sure to follow it as long as the family agreed.

My FI and I, as well as all of our parents, have discussed what would happen in various cases.

Better to be prepared than not. Everyone should a copy of either of these documents in a safe place that at least one other person knows about.

I'm not sure if this answers the OP, but oh well. It's still good information.

ETA: here at least, because 5 wishes isn't legal, the hospital won't keep it on record, so make sure it's in a safe place. The advanced health care directive, on the other hand, will be kept by your hospital since it is legal.

KatieinBkln · January 2015

I don't have a POA, but I do have a living will (this reminds me that it's probably time to update it so that my FI is my go-to person and not my mother). In my old state, I believe they were for two separate things; the POA for financial and the living will for healthcare (although I believe living wills are sometimes called Healthcare POAs).

It's so important to know what you want and have it written down. It's scary to think about, but nobody should be forced into a situation they don't want to be in, at a time when they are least able to do anything about it.

lyndausvi · January 2015

We are married and we do not have a POA, but I not foresee any issues with either family. So I'm not concerned.

For example, when DH was single and living in CA he developed pneumonia so bad they thought he wouldn't make it. There was talk about sending in a priest of last rights. None one from his family even bothered to fly out to see him. I have no reason to think they would all the sudden under mind me.

My parents very much believe your spouse makes the choices.

My parents both have POA and my sister is the backup if the other dies first. I'm told MIL has a POA, but I'm not sure the details. The others all live by her so I'm sure one of them would have the POA not DH, but I'm not quite sure.

Now this was many years ago but my grandma had a living will. It was pretty specific that she didn't want to be kept alive on machines. She made my aunt the POA. Said aunt ignored the entire living will. It was like it didn't exist. It caused many problems because my mom and other aunts wanted the living will upheld.

Because of the situation I have no doubt my parents would respect our spoken wishes if DH was not able to speak on my behalf. They specifically said one of my brothers would never have POA because they did not think he would honor their wishes. Which is another reason why I know they respect people's wishes in these situations.

BrandNewJ · January 2015

@lyndausvi‌ omg I can't believe your aunt ignored the living will and that the hospital let her!

dcbride86 · January 2015

No, my parents would be in charge of what happens to me, and FIs family would be in charge of him. After we get married we will file advanced directives for medical decisions.

lyndausvi · January 2015

BrandNewJ said:

@lyndausvi‌ omg I can't believe your aunt ignored the living will and that the hospital let her!

this was back in the 90's. My aunt worked in a doctor's office. So in her mind she was the "expert". Notice I didn't say she was a doctor or even nurse for that matter.

The doctors (who aunt had connections to) wanted to do a procedure that no one thought should be done. Plus the procedure required her to go on a ventilator which she didn't want. Aunt agreed with the doctors even though it was against my grandma's wishes.

Mom lived overseas (personal emails and cell phones were not common place). My aunt was too cheap to call my mom, so she had her son email my dad (son and dad worked for the same company). With the 13 hour time difference the email was sent after business hours (remember iphone, skype, etc were not around). By the time mom and another aunt were told it was too late.

The procedure didn't work like they wanted, but it did require grandma to be on a ventilator for 10 months until she was able to gain strength to get off. Something she adamantly did not want. After she got off the DNR kicked in and she passed away peacefully a week later.

BrandNewJ · January 2015

lyndausvi said:

BrandNewJ said:

@lyndausvi‌ omg I can't believe your aunt ignored the living will and that the hospital let her!

this was back in the 90's. My aunt worked in a doctor's office. So in her mind she was the "expert". Notice I didn't say she was a doctor or even nurse for that matter.

The doctors (who aunt had connections to) wanted to do a procedure that no one thought should be done. Plus the procedure required her to go on a ventilator which she didn't want. Aunt agreed with the doctors even though it was against my grandma's wishes.

Mom lived overseas (personal emails and cell phones were not common place). My aunt was too cheap to call my mom, so she had her son email my dad (son and dad worked for the same company). With the 13 hour time difference the email was sent after business hours (remember iphone, skype, etc were not around). By the time mom and another aunt were told it was too late.

The procedure didn't work like they wanted, but it did require grandma to be on a ventilator for 10 months until she was able to gain strength to get off. Something she adamantly did not want. After she got off the DNR kicked in and she passed away peacefully a week later.

Geez, I'm sorry for your loss. That's really crazy-- as is your aunt. Nice to hear that at least she was able to have her wishes followed for the DNR.

lyndausvi · January 2015

BrandNewJ said:

lyndausvi said:

BrandNewJ said:

@lyndausvi‌ omg I can't believe your aunt ignored the living will and that the hospital let her!

this was back in the 90's. My aunt worked in a doctor's office. So in her mind she was the "expert". Notice I didn't say she was a doctor or even nurse for that matter.

The doctors (who aunt had connections to) wanted to do a procedure that no one thought should be done. Plus the procedure required her to go on a ventilator which she didn't want. Aunt agreed with the doctors even though it was against my grandma's wishes.

Mom lived overseas (personal emails and cell phones were not common place). My aunt was too cheap to call my mom, so she had her son email my dad (son and dad worked for the same company). With the 13 hour time difference the email was sent after business hours (remember iphone, skype, etc were not around). By the time mom and another aunt were told it was too late.

The procedure didn't work like they wanted, but it did require grandma to be on a ventilator for 10 months until she was able to gain strength to get off. Something she adamantly did not want. After she got off the DNR kicked in and she passed away peacefully a week later.

Geez, I'm sorry for your loss. That's really crazy-- as is your aunt. Nice to hear that at least she was able to have her wishes followed for the DNR.

Fact is aunt wasn't ready to let her 88 year old mother pass on. She was holding on to hope. After those 10 months aunt realized her mistake. That is why picking the right POA is important. You can talk all you want, but if when shit gets real people do not always thinking clearly and their own wants can take over.

The rest of us knew grandma's wishes and were ready to let her go. Grandma had a great life and always told us she did not want to go to extremes to be kept alive. We respected that and always supported her. We all help her gain strength so she could get off that ventaltor and the DNR order would kick in.

BrandNewJ · January 2015

lyndausvi said:

BrandNewJ said:

lyndausvi said:

BrandNewJ said:

@lyndausvi‌ omg I can't believe your aunt ignored the living will and that the hospital let her!

this was back in the 90's. My aunt worked in a doctor's office. So in her mind she was the "expert". Notice I didn't say she was a doctor or even nurse for that matter.

The doctors (who aunt had connections to) wanted to do a procedure that no one thought should be done. Plus the procedure required her to go on a ventilator which she didn't want. Aunt agreed with the doctors even though it was against my grandma's wishes.

Mom lived overseas (personal emails and cell phones were not common place). My aunt was too cheap to call my mom, so she had her son email my dad (son and dad worked for the same company). With the 13 hour time difference the email was sent after business hours (remember iphone, skype, etc were not around). By the time mom and another aunt were told it was too late.

The procedure didn't work like they wanted, but it did require grandma to be on a ventilator for 10 months until she was able to gain strength to get off. Something she adamantly did not want. After she got off the DNR kicked in and she passed away peacefully a week later.

Geez, I'm sorry for your loss. That's really crazy-- as is your aunt. Nice to hear that at least she was able to have her wishes followed for the DNR.

Fact is aunt wasn't ready to let her 88 year old mother pass on. She was holding on to hope. After those 10 months aunt realized her mistake. That is why picking the right POA is important. You can talk all you want, but if when shit gets real people do not always thinking clearly and their own wants can take over.

The rest of us knew grandma's wishes and were ready to let her go. Grandma had a great life and always told us she did not want to go to extremes to be kept alive. We respected that and always supported her. We all help her gain strength so she could get off that ventaltor and the DNR order would kick in.

That's a much more understandable reason than I assumed, which is never a smart thing. I projected how my mothers family would respond onto your situation. The emotions behind the decision makes sense. You have a fantastic family for rallying around your aunt and helping her through that state.

The correct POA is extremely important.

lyndausvi · January 2015

BrandNewJ - it took a long time for some people to get over the hurt feelings. Even 20+ years later it's still on the minds of some. Not that they hold it against her, but they will never forget either.

In my family we use it as an example of what NOT to do.

Did you have a POA before your marriage?

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