When would you say something?

thespeshulestsnowflake · January 2015

I've noticed that most people say that for the majority of etiquette blunders/breaches that they would not say anything to the bride or groom to their face. But would snark on them behind their back.

Is there anything you would say something to them about?

flantastic · January 2015

I'd probably say something to them if they noticed the effects of their rudeness and asked about it. Doesn't matter if the question was meant to be rhetorical.

If someone's whining, "Whyyy am I getting so many declines? I was counting on those people for my catering minimum," I might say something like, "Honestly, it probably has to do with the huge gap between wedding and reception. No matter how much someone loves you, it's not worth the money to come to a city to figure out how to wait around for several hours."

lovegood90 · January 2015

I agree with @flantastic. For me, this also depends on how close I am to the person. If it's a friend from work, I'd just keep my mouth shut so I don't risk negatively affecting my professional relationships if they don't take it well.

However if it's my sister or best friend and we have that relationship where we can be brutally honest with each other, I'd say something/offer some tactful advice if they asked.

PrettyGirlLost · January 2015

If I was close enough to the person that he/she was sharing planning details or asking me questions related to planning, then I'm also close enough to them to carefully and tactfully tell them an idea is shitty from an etiquette standpoint.

Rudeness breeds because of ignorance and silence.

ShesSoCold · January 2015

I agree with PPs. If someone asks, yes I'd say something, depending on the relationship.

My brother and SIL never sent thank you notes for their wedding shower, wedding or the baby shower (that I freaking threw for them AND bought gifts). I try to bring up how nice thank you cards are as often as I can, but just to be a dick.

novella1186 · January 2015

PrettyGirlLost said:

If I was close enough to the person that he/she was sharing planning details or asking me questions related to planning, then I'm also close enough to them to carefully and tactfully tell them an idea is shitty from an etiquette standpoint.

Rudeness breeds because of ignorance and silence.

This. I wouldn't say anything to a casual acquaintance, especially because if you're not close they may not even take your advice to heart and they'll just be upset that you said something negative. So what's the point?

But if it was someone I was close to and they were sharing details and whatnot with me, and seemed stuck on something, I would carefully let them know that maybe x offends people, or maybe y shouldn't happen.

banana468 · January 2015

It all depends on my relationship with the person and whether or not I was asked.

If the person was my best friend or sibling, I'd probably offer as much info in advance about what is and isn't a great idea.

If I'm at the wedding and my friend or family member has a cash bar, I'll probably snark to DH about it but I won't mention it to the couple. At that point I'm irritated but it's too late for them to do anything about it.

However if my good friend said, "Well we're going to have a cash bar and then the guests will show up for the dance portion only," I'd tell her why that's not a great idea.

If I overheard someone saying that over Easter dinner at my in law's home, I'd keep my mouth shut.

charcoalandblush · January 2015

FSIL had etiquette fails abound at her wedding. I kept my mouth shut. If it was one of my BFFs I might say something, or if FSIL had asked my opinion I would have been honest, but I think for the most part I would stick to snark behind their backs unless it was really REALLY egregious (like making guests pay for their own dinner egregious).

allispain · January 2015

For me it also depends on how close I am to the person as well as whether or not they've brought it up. For example, I had a very good friend (we were each other's BMs) that decided to use a honeymoon registry as well as a regular one. When she brought up the fact that she had noticed people were buying gifts off the regular registry but were not doing anything on the HM one, I mentioned to her that it may be because they know that those registries take a % and don't actually provide the "gift" that was purchased. She had no idea that's how it worked - HM registry promptly disappeared :-)

Had she not brought it up, I wouldn't have done so. But since she did, I felt comfortable saying something.

climbingsingle · January 2015

I really would only say anything if I was extremely close to the person (ie - my best friends or my brother). Other than that, I'd keep my mouth shut.

peachy13 · January 2015

Agreeing with others that I think it depends. My dear sister used to make references that she was my slave when I asked her to be my MOH. She'd also ask me how I want her hair to be done, etc. I did tell her that it's really rude for the bride to demand such things of her bridal party (or anyone, for that matter). Glad she knows since she's likely on the verge of an engagement soon.

Then there was my friend who had a wedding with a cash bar, gap, attire requirements on the invitation, and treated the bridal party like slaves... kept my mouth shut.

marie2785 · January 2015

I think it depends on a few things.

1) How close I am to the person. Close friend/family--I say something. Not close friend or family--I stay quiet.

2) Timing. Is it something they can change? If so, if I'm close enough of a friend/family member, I may mention it. If it can't be changed (e.g. I show up at their wedding and it's a cash bar), I will keep my mouth shut, forever. I would NEVER snark to anyone on or after their wedding about etiquette fails. It's incredibly rude and just flat out mean. I might whine on the side, but quietly.

3) "Level" of fail. This is of course a judgement call on the severity of the etiquette fail. But for me examples would be: Is the gap between the wedding and the reception 2 hrs during which they serve food and drinks? My mouth stays shut. Is it a 2 hr gap, 1 of which has no food or drinks? I say something. Do they plan to include registry info on their invite? I say something. Do they plan to serve a signature drink during cocktail hour along with beer and wine, but then only beer and wine the rest of the reception? I stay quiet.

Overall, I prefer to pick my battles so I don't come across as condescending. I doubt anyone has a "perfect etiquette" wedding, although we all strive to be as close as possible.

justtoday · January 2015

Along with what PPs said, for me it would probably depend on how common those things are in the area where we are or weddings the bride or I had been to recently. I know that doesn’t change whether something is correct etiquette-wise, but it changes whether it’s worth having a fight about. If the bride is Catholic and every single Catholic wedding that she’s been to has a gap (not saying all Catholic weddings are like this, but I haven’t been to a single one without a gap), discussing the etiquette issues of a gap are going to fall on deaf ears and probably just make her mad. Same if her family and friends always have cash bars. Its an issue, but commenting on it likely won’t do anything but upset her.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

short+sassy · January 2015

marie2785 said:

I think it depends on a few things.

1) How close I am to the person. Close friend/family--I say something. Not close friend or family--I stay quiet.

2) Timing. Is it something they can change? If so, if I'm close enough of a friend/family member, I may mention it. If it can't be changed (e.g. I show up at their wedding and it's a cash bar), I will keep my mouth shut, forever. I would NEVER snark to anyone on or after their wedding about etiquette fails. It's incredibly rude and just flat out mean. I might whine on the side, but quietly.

3) "Level" of fail. This is of course a judgement call on the severity of the etiquette fail. But for me examples would be: Is the gap between the wedding and the reception 2 hrs during which they serve food and drinks? My mouth stays shut. Is it a 2 hr gap, 1 of which has no food or drinks? I say something. Do they plan to include registry info on their invite? I say something. Do they plan to serve a signature drink during cocktail hour along with beer and wine, but then only beer and wine the rest of the reception? I stay quiet.

Overall, I prefer to pick my battles so I don't come across as condescending. I doubt anyone has a "perfect etiquette" wedding, although we all strive to be as close as possible.

This! For example, a very good friend had a more casual backyard wedding that was a "potluck reception" mentioned in the wedding invitation. She is a good enough friend that, if I had known ahead of time, I would have strongly encouraged her not to do that. But I found out when I got the invitation. I didn't see a point in saying anything to her and possibly making her feel bad because the damage was already done.

tammym1001 · January 2015

The only time I've said something is when it directly affected me. I was co-hosting a baby shower for a friend and she suggested we have guests write their own addresses on thank you card envelopes so she didn't have to do it. I might have had a couple glasses of wine and I said "no we aren't doing that! It's really rude to have people address their own thank you cards. They spent time and money to get you a gift so the least you can do is fill out their thank you cards!". There was an uncomfortable moment when it was revealed that another girl who was co-hosting did this at her bridal shower, but that's her problem not mine.

abbyj700 · January 2015

Depends on the offense, my relationship with the person, whether they can change it and if they ask.

At my sisters wedding people were asked to carry their chairs from the ceremony to the reception. I didn't know until the day before when we were setting up. What good would it be for me to point out the blunder to she and her bride the day before her wedding?

At my shower my mother and sister had people write their addresses on envelopes. I didn't even bat an eyelash. It's a small crime at best and didn't affect the comfort of our guests. When asked about inviting people to the showers (two different states) who weren't invited to the wedding I was adamant that that wasn't okay and very tacky and rude. My mom invited some anyways...ohhh mothers. :-)

One of my besties had a honeyfund. I don't like them but I don't hate them so much I'd point it out. She's a smart girl, she understands the terms of service and made her decision.

My best friend is getting married in September. She helped me through her planning, I'm helping her through hers. I've shared many of the opinions of this etiquette forum with her (especially since she now asks and calls me the etiquette queen!) While she isn't following all of the straight etiquette rules -I appreciate she's asking, listening and trying to host her guests properly.

levioosa · January 2015

I said something to my BFF. She didn't agree and pulled the "it's my day" card. I tried to explain that she needed a seat for every person, but she thinks it will be great to have an open rotating seating plan where people can eat and then get up for the next person waiting to eat. She thinks it will encourage people to dance. I tried to tell her she would accomplish the opposite because people would hoard their seats in fear of losing them. I also told her as a guest I would be extremely upset to fly to her destination wedding and spend thousands of dollars only to have a cash bar and no seat.

I did change her mind on secretly getting married first and then having a PPD though. Ironically, right after we had the PPD conversation we found out that our other friend did that and now she's furious (she spent a lot of money flying across the country to be in the wedding). So that was kind of full circle for her. I'm hoping she changes her mind on the other things before she sends out her invites and goes over the venue's capacity.

badbnagdway · January 2015

I agree the timing is important. When a friend who is planning her wedding mentions to me that she is considering doing something that is rude, I try to gently dissuade. If they've already done something, like set-up a honey fund type registry for example, I keep my mouth shut. At that point there's no changing their minds and the damage is done. Saying it after the fact if the situation can't be rescued is kind of rude in itself, imho.

dcbride86 · January 2015

charcoalandblush said:

FSIL had etiquette fails abound at her wedding. I kept my mouth shut. If it was one of my BFFs I might say something, or if FSIL had asked my opinion I would have been honest, but I think for the most part I would stick to snark behind their backs unless it was really REALLY egregious (like making guests pay for their own dinner egregious).

One of my best friends is hosting a wedding with some pretty big etiquette fails. I'm in the wedding, and it's hard for me not to say something, but I know if I do, she won't believe me and may feel attacked. So I'm keeping my mouth shut about the 3-hour gap.

KatWAG · January 2015

abbyj700 said:

Depends on the offense, my relationship with the person, whether they can change it and if they ask.

At my sisters wedding people were asked to carry their chairs from the ceremony to the reception. I didn't know until the day before when we were setting up. What good would it be for me to point out the blunder to she and her bride the day before her wedding?

At my shower my mother and sister had people write their addresses on envelopes. I didn't even bat an eyelash. It's a small crime at best and didn't affect the comfort of our guests. When asked about inviting people to the showers (two different states) who weren't invited to the wedding I was adamant that that wasn't okay and very tacky and rude. My mom invited some anyways...ohhh mothers. :-)

One of my besties had a honeyfund. I don't like them but I don't hate them so much I'd point it out. She's a smart girl, she understands the terms of service and made her decision.

My best friend is getting married in September. She helped me through her planning, I'm helping her through hers. I've shared many of the opinions of this etiquette forum with her (especially since she now asks and calls me the etiquette queen!) While she isn't following all of the straight etiquette rules -I appreciate she's asking, listening and trying to host her guests properly.

I am going to pretty strongly disagree with the bolded. That is something worth speaking up over. People are kind enough to bring you a gift. The least you can do is address the thank you card. I would assume you are close enough to your mom and sister to let them know how rude that is.

banana468 · January 2015

KatWAG said:

abbyj700 said:

Depends on the offense, my relationship with the person, whether they can change it and if they ask.

At my sisters wedding people were asked to carry their chairs from the ceremony to the reception. I didn't know until the day before when we were setting up. What good would it be for me to point out the blunder to she and her bride the day before her wedding?

At my shower my mother and sister had people write their addresses on envelopes. I didn't even bat an eyelash. It's a small crime at best and didn't affect the comfort of our guests. When asked about inviting people to the showers (two different states) who weren't invited to the wedding I was adamant that that wasn't okay and very tacky and rude. My mom invited some anyways...ohhh mothers. :-)

One of my besties had a honeyfund. I don't like them but I don't hate them so much I'd point it out. She's a smart girl, she understands the terms of service and made her decision.

My best friend is getting married in September. She helped me through her planning, I'm helping her through hers. I've shared many of the opinions of this etiquette forum with her (especially since she now asks and calls me the etiquette queen!) While she isn't following all of the straight etiquette rules -I appreciate she's asking, listening and trying to host her guests properly.
I am going to pretty strongly disagree with the bolded. That is something worth speaking up over. People are kind enough to bring you a gift. The least you can do is address the thank you card. I would assume you are close enough to your mom and sister to let them know how rude that is.

This. Unless the guests had already done this and you didn't get to stop them I'd absolutely speak up. That's one of the few hot button things for me. The only thing I should have to do to get a thank you card is give you something. It totally chaps my hide when I see that someone thinks this is a great idea.

lovegood90 · January 2015

banana468 said:

KatWAG said:
I am going to pretty strongly disagree with the bolded. That is something worth speaking up over. People are kind enough to bring you a gift. The least you can do is address the thank you card. I would assume you are close enough to your mom and sister to let them know how rude that is.

This. Unless the guests had already done this and you didn't get to stop them I'd absolutely speak up. That's one of the few hot button things for me. The only thing I should have to do to get a thank you card is give you something. It totally chaps my hide when I see that someone thinks this is a great idea.

Agreed! Like, do you want me to just write the damn letter too and chip in a dollar for the stamp?

thespeshulestsnowflake · January 2015

lovegood90 said:

banana468 said:

KatWAG said:
I am going to pretty strongly disagree with the bolded. That is something worth speaking up over. People are kind enough to bring you a gift. The least you can do is address the thank you card. I would assume you are close enough to your mom and sister to let them know how rude that is.

This. Unless the guests had already done this and you didn't get to stop them I'd absolutely speak up. That's one of the few hot button things for me. The only thing I should have to do to get a thank you card is give you something. It totally chaps my hide when I see that someone thinks this is a great idea.

Agreed! Like, do you want me to just write the damn letter too and chip in a dollar for the stamp?

Hey now, stamps have gotten very expensive.

thisismynickname2 · January 2015

I think I'm just going to parrot what PPs have said. Am I close to the person and can it be changed? I've been trying to steer my best friend in a good direction, but I'm not opening my mouth on her large gap between ceremony and reception. It won't change.

My coworker did the "please donate to charity in lieu of gifts" thing and "adults only" on the invite thing and I just nodded politely.

If I experience the etiquette breach in the moment, I might quietly complain to my husband, but I'd never say anything to anyone else. It can be changed, it is what is is.

frenchiekin · January 2015

thisismynickname said:

I think I'm just going to parrot what PPs have said. Am I close to the person and can it be changed? I've been trying to steer my best friend in a good direction, but I'm not opening my mouth on her large gap between ceremony and reception. It won't change.
My coworker did the "please donate to charity in lieu of gifts" thing and "adults only" on the invite thing and I just nodded politely.

If I experience the etiquette breach in the moment, I might quietly complain to my husband, but I'd never say anything to anyone else. It can be changed, it is what is is.

Agree with the above as well. After the fact, it's just adding insult to injury when it can't be changed... and I want to avoid seeming like a know-it-all/condescending/someone who is just trying to prove a point, which brings me to this question...

If you're discussing your OWN wedding with someone who has committed etiquette mistakes for their weddings, how do you feel about gently/politely defending your etiquette-approved decision?

Example - I'm chatting with my MOH about my wedding, and she asks what the plan is for makeup and how I want the BMs to be "done". I tell her that I've booked a makeup artist, the cost is $X, and she is there for anyone who would like to have their makeup done; but it is completely up to each individual whether she would like to have hers done, do it herself, wear none, etc. and there are NO stylistic requirements whatsoever. I just want everyone to be comfortable and feel great. She expresses her shock and confusion, as when I was MOH in HER wedding and I mentioned that I was going to do my own makeup (due to both $$ and because I always HATE how my makeup looks when done by someone else), she essentially guilted me into doing it because I'd be the only one not getting it done and she really wanted everyone to look uniform. She did not pay for it.

I did it because I love her (and because I had no backbone at the time), and also because I felt it was required - this was several years ago, I was young-ish. By explicitly saying that I would not require my bridesmaids to get their makeup done a certain way, am I indirectly telling her that what she did was wrong? I've had to keep my mouth shut in several of these circumstances so as not to seem super judgey.

Sorry if none of that made sense - it's my Monday today and my thoughts aren't really stringing together normally.

flantastic · January 2015

thisismynickname said:

I think I'm just going to parrot what PPs have said. Am I close to the person and can it be changed? I've been trying to steer my best friend in a good direction, but I'm not opening my mouth on her large gap between ceremony and reception. It won't change.
My coworker did the "please donate to charity in lieu of gifts" thing and "adults only" on the invite thing and I just nodded politely.

If I experience the etiquette breach in the moment, I might quietly complain to my husband, but I'd never say anything to anyone else. It can be changed, it is what is is.

I do agree with PPs that pre-wedding if things are set, or during the wedding, saying "Hey, you know you're really rude?" can also be rude and an unnecessary damper.

However, if no one ever says anything, those brides become the people in the hive who say, "I did this, and no negative consequences came of it! Do it, girl!" thereby perpetuating the selfishness, and continue on their selfish way, perhaps without ever realizing how selfish they are. If it comes up, I'm probably going to say something. I'll keep my mouth shut on their wedding day, but any other time is a possibility.

charcoalandblush · January 2015

frenchiekin said:

I did it because I love her (and because I had no backbone at the time), and also because I felt it was required - this was several years ago, I was young-ish. By explicitly saying that I would not require my bridesmaids to get their makeup done a certain way, am I indirectly telling her that what she did was wrong? I've had to keep my mouth shut in several of these circumstances so as not to seem super judgey.

I wonder this too sometimes. Especially with FSIL getting married a few months before me. I wonder if me doing things the right way (and telling her about it) will kind of seem like a tacit jab at her for doing them the wrong way. I definitely don't want to hurt her feelings or cause any kind of tension (she and DF are extremely close). But for the most part I don't worry about it. It's not my fault that she did things the way she did, and I have every right to do them differently.

I did feel like I should feel bad about this one (but I don't). The day after her wedding, her/DF's parents asked me who was going to be my personal attendant. I said "Oh, I'm not having one. I just really want all of my friends to enjoy my wedding as bridesmaids or guests. And I'll have my coordinator there for everything else." No clue if it'll get back to her or not. Mostly don't care. Sorry not sorry.

PrettyGirlLost · January 2015

KatWAG said:

abbyj700 said:

Depends on the offense, my relationship with the person, whether they can change it and if they ask.

At my sisters wedding people were asked to carry their chairs from the ceremony to the reception. I didn't know until the day before when we were setting up. What good would it be for me to point out the blunder to she and her bride the day before her wedding?

At my shower my mother and sister had people write their addresses on envelopes. I didn't even bat an eyelash. It's a small crime at best and didn't affect the comfort of our guests. When asked about inviting people to the showers (two different states) who weren't invited to the wedding I was adamant that that wasn't okay and very tacky and rude. My mom invited some anyways...ohhh mothers. :-)

One of my besties had a honeyfund. I don't like them but I don't hate them so much I'd point it out. She's a smart girl, she understands the terms of service and made her decision.

My best friend is getting married in September. She helped me through her planning, I'm helping her through hers. I've shared many of the opinions of this etiquette forum with her (especially since she now asks and calls me the etiquette queen!) While she isn't following all of the straight etiquette rules -I appreciate she's asking, listening and trying to host her guests properly.
I am going to pretty strongly disagree with the bolded. That is something worth speaking up over. People are kind enough to bring you a gift. The least you can do is address the thank you card. I would assume you are close enough to your mom and sister to let them know how rude that is.

Add this to the list of Etiquette "Rules" that Don't Bother Me at All. Yeah I know the consensus is that it's rude, but I don't give a shit if I have to address an envelope. Same as I don't give a shit if people put registry inserts in invitations, use mailing labels as opposed to hand written calligraphy, or don't have assigned seating. I don't even give a shit if the bride technically plans and hosts her own shower. I'm not going to pass any of that off as correct here, though.

Gaps, not enough seating, not enough food, cash bars are what really pisses me off.

JCbride2015 · January 2015

Original question:

I'll mostly ditto PPs. It depends on how close I am to the person, the timing of when I find this out, and whether the person is openly wondering/ asking about the consequences of the breach.

Work friend's shower invitation includes a Honeyfund and obnoxious money poem? I didn't say anything; damage was already done.

Fi's cousin told me they booked their reception at 6pm and are looking for a church to do a 2pm wedding on purpose, so they can drive the bridal party (including me) around in a party bus and take pictures for 3 or 4 hours. I played really, really dumb. "But you can't find a reception venue that will start at 4? Why do you need that many bridal party pictures? Won't driving around like that all day make you really tired for the reception? I've never heard of this before. I really think you'll be better off if you just make everything as easy for yourself as you can, in one place at one time." Her answer was, "You aren't Catholic so you don't understand. All Catholics do it this way." That's when I shut up. She was beyond help.

S/O of talking about your own wedding: I have no compunction, I'll basically say I'm not doing X because it's rude. I've said this to FMIL about Honeyfunds (FBIL had one and she kept telling me what a great idea it was), and FBIL and FSIL about over-inviting for your venue capacity. I don't really feel bad about that.

APDSS22 · January 2015

charcoalandblush said:

frenchiekin said:

I did it because I love her (and because I had no backbone at the time), and also because I felt it was required - this was several years ago, I was young-ish. By explicitly saying that I would not require my bridesmaids to get their makeup done a certain way, am I indirectly telling her that what she did was wrong? I've had to keep my mouth shut in several of these circumstances so as not to seem super judgey.

I wonder this too sometimes. Especially with FSIL getting married a few months before me. I wonder if me doing things the right way (and telling her about it) will kind of seem like a tacit jab at her for doing them the wrong way. I definitely don't want to hurt her feelings or cause any kind of tension (she and DF are extremely close). But for the most part I don't worry about it. It's not my fault that she did things the way she did, and I have every right to do them differently.

I did feel like I should feel bad about this one (but I don't). The day after her wedding, her/DF's parents asked me who was going to be my personal attendant. I said "Oh, I'm not having one. I just really want all of my friends to enjoy my wedding as bridesmaids or guests. And I'll have my coordinator there for everything else." No clue if it'll get back to her or not. Mostly don't care. Sorry not sorry.

Is that like a body servant who takes care of everything so you don't have to remember how to put on shoes the day of your wedding or something?

I am currently dealing with finding the balancing line because someone we know is getting married and has some great ideas (probably culled from the Bee). I mean, only about 50% of your invited guests will actually show up, right? And they won't all want to sit down at the same time, because that's just impossible. Oh, and it never rains on an outdoor wedding. *palm meeting forehead* I don't want to seem pushy, but I don't think we can get out of attending this one and I really don't like suffering.

KatWAG · January 2015

PrettyGirlLost said:

KatWAG said:

abbyj700 said:

Depends on the offense, my relationship with the person, whether they can change it and if they ask.

At my sisters wedding people were asked to carry their chairs from the ceremony to the reception. I didn't know until the day before when we were setting up. What good would it be for me to point out the blunder to she and her bride the day before her wedding?

At my shower my mother and sister had people write their addresses on envelopes. I didn't even bat an eyelash. It's a small crime at best and didn't affect the comfort of our guests. When asked about inviting people to the showers (two different states) who weren't invited to the wedding I was adamant that that wasn't okay and very tacky and rude. My mom invited some anyways...ohhh mothers. :-)

One of my besties had a honeyfund. I don't like them but I don't hate them so much I'd point it out. She's a smart girl, she understands the terms of service and made her decision.

My best friend is getting married in September. She helped me through her planning, I'm helping her through hers. I've shared many of the opinions of this etiquette forum with her (especially since she now asks and calls me the etiquette queen!) While she isn't following all of the straight etiquette rules -I appreciate she's asking, listening and trying to host her guests properly.
I am going to pretty strongly disagree with the bolded. That is something worth speaking up over. People are kind enough to bring you a gift. The least you can do is address the thank you card. I would assume you are close enough to your mom and sister to let them know how rude that is.
Add this to the list of Etiquette "Rules" that Don't Bother Me at All. Yeah I know the consensus is that it's rude, but I don't give a shit if I have to address an envelope. Same as I don't give a shit if people put registry inserts in invitations, use mailing labels as opposed to hand written calligraphy, or don't have assigned seating. I don't even give a shit if the bride technically plans and hosts her own shower. I'm not going to pass any of that off as correct here, though.

Gaps, not enough seating, not enough food, cash bars are what really pisses me off.

I think it is outright laziness to not address the envelope. I spent time and money on a gift and the bride cant even spend 5 seconds writing out an address. Come on.

When would you say something?

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