Does formal etiquette play a role in your regular life?

BritLady · February 2015

I have seen lots of discussions on here about the meaning of formality, which led me to wonder what kind of role formal etiquette, social formalities, etc., which is really what wedding etiquette is, plays in your normal life. I often get the feeling that formal etiquette is all but dead and seen as obsolete by most people until a wedding comes along. I have certainly experienced this in the UK, although my social circle is far more traditional and formal than most, and I also observed this during my limited time in the US, where society seems to be even more casual than over here.

Please allow me to elaborate a bit what I mean by social formalities, whilst pointing out that the list below is neither exclusive nor in any way hierarchical:

Do you regularly attend formal day or evening events? (Daytime events would require either black lounge or morning dress, whilst evening dos would be black/white tie with corresponding ladies' attire)?
Have you hosted formal dinners (four courses or more), preferably preceded by a written invitation addressed to the lady of the house?
Do you regularly write thank-you letters, condolence letters, welcome notes or other social correspondence?
Have you ever opened a dance or a ball with a set measure?

I am simply curious, and would appreciate many responses.

manateehugger · February 2015

BritLady said:

I have seen lots of discussions on here about the meaning of formality, which led me to wonder what kind of role formal etiquette, social formalities, etc., which is really what wedding etiquette is, plays in your normal life. I often get the feeling that formal etiquette is all but dead and seen as obsolete by most people until a wedding comes along. I have certainly experienced this in the UK, although my social circle is far more traditional and formal than most, and I also observed this during my limited time in the US, where society seems to be even more casual than over here.
Please allow me to elaborate a bit what I mean by social formalities, whilst pointing out that the list below is neither exclusive nor in any way hierarchical:
Do you regularly attend formal day or evening events? (Daytime events would require either black lounge or morning dress, whilst evening dos would be black/white tie with corresponding ladies' attire)?
Have you hosted formal dinners (four courses or more), preferably preceded by a written invitation addressed to the lady of the house?
Do you regularly write thank-you letters, condolence letters, welcome notes or other social correspondence?
Have you ever opened a dance or a ball with a set measure?
I am simply curious, and would appreciate many responses.

Why does it sound like you are awkwardly trying to collect data for some sort of study?

BritLady · February 2015

Probably because I am an academic, and because it's past midnight here?

BritLady · February 2015

I am not collecting information for a study. If that were the case, I would state it and do a questionnaire. My field is absolutely not related to social or cultural anthropology where such data would be relevant.

danamw · February 2015

Methinks you are pulling our collective leg! Just a bit.

I like writing letters, and most Knotties believe thank you notes are a must.

manateehugger · February 2015

I work in an academic setting as well, yet I know how to ask a question in social contexts that doesn't make it sound like I'm unethically collecting data.

Why don't you answer your own questions to get the ball rolling? Your posting history suggests you enjoy discussing your social status as the daughter of landed gentry.

themosthappy91 · February 2015

manateehugger said:

I work in an academic setting as well, yet I know how to ask a question in social contexts that doesn't make it sound like I'm unethically collecting data.
Why don't you answer your own questions to get the ball rolling? Your posting history suggests you enjoy discussing your social status as the daughter of landed gentry.

I actually LOL'd.

This is the weirdest post I've ever seen on here. And I kiiiiiind of feel like it may be an excuse for you to talk about how fancy you are... just being honest, when you post talking like this and taking into account your other posts, that's how it comes across.

[Deleted User] · February 2015

I don't care if you are collecting data. My answers are: no, no, yes, no.

lyndausvi · February 2015

no

yes

no

We live a causal lifestyle. We are both in the industry who works all those fancy events. As an observation events in general are not as formal as 20-30 years ago.

Even show on Broadway meant you got dresses up when I was young. These days people are in jeans and tank tops.

I have spent time in Europe and in general it was a little more formal over there then on this side of the pond.

southernbelle0915 · February 2015

WUT?

MairePoppy · February 2015

No. No. Yes, of course. and Once.

CMGragain · February 2015

BritLady said:

I have seen lots of discussions on here about the meaning of formality, which led me to wonder what kind of role formal etiquette, social formalities, etc., which is really what wedding etiquette is, plays in your normal life. I often get the feeling that formal etiquette is all but dead and seen as obsolete by most people until a wedding comes along. I have certainly experienced this in the UK, although my social circle is far more traditional and formal than most, and I also observed this during my limited time in the US, where society seems to be even more casual than over here.
Please allow me to elaborate a bit what I mean by social formalities, whilst pointing out that the list below is neither exclusive nor in any way hierarchical:
Do you regularly attend formal day or evening events? (Daytime events would require either black lounge or morning dress, whilst evening dos would be black/white tie with corresponding ladies' attire)?
Have you hosted formal dinners (four courses or more), preferably preceded by a written invitation addressed to the lady of the house?
Do you regularly write thank-you letters, condolence letters, welcome notes or other social correspondence?
Have you ever opened a dance or a ball with a set measure?
I am simply curious, and would appreciate many responses.

What do you mean by the word "etiquette"? When I use it, I mean rules about how you treat other people.
I have attended many formal events while living near Washington, DC, but out here in Colorado, there aren't many. My formal clothes don't fit anymore, anyway. I have lost too much weight, due to illness.
In order to host a formal dinner, it is necessary to have either servants or hired caterers and waiters. I have neither. My husband does not dance. As for regularly writing thank you notes, of course I do! It would be rude not to write them! This has nothing to do with formal etiquette. It is every day common courtesy.
I don't really understand why you ask these questions.

STARMOON44 · February 2015

Formal etiquette plays a big role in my life, although not in the antiquated social terms you're using. I attend black tie events a few times a year, write thank you notes, entertain, but must importantly I use etiquette all the time at work. I rarely feel like it am very truly someone's but I close letters with "very truly yours" all the time and address people by formal titles.

Opening a dance or ball with a set measure is a matter of style and tradition not etiquette. Pls research your romance novel somewhere else.

ohannabelle · February 2015

Certainly we employ formal etiquette on a daily basis, but American formal etiquette differs slightly.

The "social season" lasts only a few days, after Labor Day but before October. This ensures that your guests aren't traveling on unpaved roads or snowy trails, where they are likely to be stuck in a muddy hog wallow or attacked by bear, or git bit by pigs.

Formal dinner party: invitation is strictly by word of mouth. Tell your kinfolk- this designation includes family to the degree of cousins 25 times removed. Keep in mind that many of your guests do not have phone lines, and reaching their cabins may involve a hike. Do not trust this invitation to simple minded or drunken family members.

Traditionally, the day that you deliver this invitation is also the day you pick up your moonshine. For that reason, children are often sent, because they can carry the supplies back whilst being entrusted not to drink it, and, if caught, are unlikely to be arrested.

(Switch em iffen they tarry.)

There are strict differentials between the informal and formal American dinner party:

Informal: Dogs may stay on the porch, and be present in the house. If there are holes in the porch, furniture should be arranged to cover them.

Formal: Dogs and Grandaddies are removed from the porch. They may be present in the house, but all other critters (chickens, pigs, etc.) should be removed. Holes in porch should be repaired.

Sweeping is required for both types of occasions. For formal dinner parties, soap should be used for cleaning, and strips of fly paper removed from light fixtures.

Menu: Squirrel and possum are standard appetizers, plentiful and cheap, but should only be served as a main course at informal dinners. For formal dinners, they may be a side course, but the main course should be a much larger animal, and always the entire animal- pig, deer, bear, elk, cow, or alligator, depending on your region. Animals killed with buckshot should not be served, as the shot may scatter in the food, and discomfit those guests with teeth.

Snake of any kind is considered inappropriate for formal dinners.

Store boughten appetizers are required at a formal dinner. Canned Vienna sausages with ketchup dip, or pigs-in-a blanket made from canned biscuit dough are both traditional and elegant. Avoid vegetable matter unless it's incorporated into a stew. Them are vittles fer rabbits.

At an informal dinner party, guests may be served in shifts, and tableware is varied. If there are too few plates and bowls, you may substitute clean tin cans, empty plastic margarine tubs, or pans. Animal feed pans are not used, even warshed.

At a formal dinner, all guests are expected to have an actual plate or bowl. You can git some pretty paper ones from down to the PigglyWiggly store, if needed. Double them up for fancy.

At a formal dinner party, correct topics of conversation include: death, arrest, drug addiction, illness, imprisoned relatives, alcoholism, shooting animals, shooting people. It is a faux pas to discuss anyone being shot by a guest. When referring to executed relatives, remember to use the word hanged. If you say cousin Bobby was hung, it may imply an inappropriately close relationship.

At a formal dinner party, shoes should be worn, and your tooth brushed.

The opening measure of the first dance is a carefully determined ritual with strict etiquette.

It is introduced only after two mason jars of moonshine have been consumed by each guest. If the host is a teetotaler, and strongly opposed to alcohol, the moonshine is served in an alternate location by close kinfolk operating as co-host. In the granary, barn, or behind the chicken coop or dog run are all acceptable locations.

It may be opened by the guest of honor, host, or most inebriated guest. It is announced by firing a gunshot into the air, emitting a yell of Yeeeeee-Haaaaaaw or similar variation, and dancing commences.

Weapons should not be fired again until the closing of the evening, following the announcement of "Y'all git to gittin." It is considered acceptable to fire shots at, but not actually shoot, departing guests.

(At an informal occasion, shots might be fired at any time through the event, but not in the house.)

I hope this has been helpful.

TLDR- Oh, FFS.

novella1186 · February 2015

Do you regularly attend formal day or evening events? (Daytime events would require either black lounge or morning dress, whilst evening dos would be black/white tie with corresponding ladies' attire)? Used to; usually charity balls, but I haven't been to one in several years
Have you hosted formal dinners (four courses or more), preferably preceded by a written invitation addressed to the lady of the house? Yes, used to host a formal Christmas dinner every year with a 7 course meal; the invitations were hand-written with a wax seal and we wore formal attire. This was all just so my best friend and I could have fun dressing up and hosting something fancy. I don't have the time or space in my house to do this anymore.

Do you regularly write thank-you letters, condolence letters, welcome notes or other social correspondence? Absolutely. I ALWAYS write thank-you letters for gifts, I send condolence cards with hand-written notes, I do not know what a welcome note is?
Have you ever opened a dance or a ball with a set measure? I almost did, once, but than I saw that Mr. Darcy was already listed on Lady Abigail's dance card and I was simply despondent after this discovery.

Some of this stuff was stuff I just did for fun, whenever I had the opportunity. Hand written thank-you notes are a must no matter what. And that last question? I don't even know what that is. I felt like I was reading a Jane Austen novel with this post. I had to answer just because when else do I get to respond to something so bizarre?

VulgarGirl · February 2015

I host a very formal orgy every month. Every one wears bowties and cowboy boots. And nothing else.

ohannabelle · February 2015

MagicInk said:

I host a very formal orgy every month. Every one wears bowties and cowboy boots. And nothing else.

Well, that requires a very different etiquette for officially starting the ball.

southernbelle0915 · February 2015

MagicInk said:
I host a very formal orgy every month. Every one wears bowties and cowboy boots. And nothing else.

I would write several thank you notes after attending one of these.

MairePoppy · February 2015

MagicInk said:

I host a very formal orgy every month. Every one wears bowties and cowboy boots. And nothing else.

No chaps?

VulgarGirl · February 2015

MairePoppy said:

MagicInk said:

I host a very formal orgy every month. Every one wears bowties and cowboy boots. And nothing else.

No chaps?

Only at our less formal orgies.

hellosweetie1015 · February 2015

@ohannabelle that was the best. Thank you.

OP - wut. I haven't ever had the opportunity to do #1, don't have the crowd to do #2, and don't even know what #4 even means. Thank you notes aren't formal etiquette, they're common courtesy.

Of course, I'm poor-to-working-class and us po' folk cain't do all them fancy things on account of we ain't got no call to be uppity and getting in all them big do-ups ain't our place.

charcoalandblush · February 2015

BritLady said:
Do you regularly attend formal day or evening events? (Daytime events would require either black lounge or morning dress, whilst evening dos would be black/white tie with corresponding ladies' attire)? I attend black tie events occasionally. At least once or twice a year I have to attend a fundraising function for work that is black tie. Even though the event itself is black tie (starts after 6pm, plated dinner service, open bar, live entertainment, valet parking and coat check, etc.) a decent number of attendees still don't follow the black tie dress code. But most do.
Have you hosted formal dinners (four courses or more), preferably preceded by a written invitation addressed to the lady of the house? No
Do you regularly write thank-you letters, condolence letters, welcome notes or other social correspondence? Yes, I regularly write thank you letters/cards. Birthdays, Christmas, graduation, etc.
Have you ever opened a dance or a ball with a set measure? No
I am simply curious, and would appreciate many responses.

SachaBee · February 2015

I have been to a few fancy black-tie events, mostly with my dad. He has some fancy friends and he loves gettin' his dress kilt out.

I would love to host a fancy dinner like that! I think it would be fun! But I would not address invitations to "the lady of the house". I would address it "the people I am inviting". (What would I do for my wonderful close friends who are a lesbian couple??)

I like writing letters, including thank-you notes.

I had to google 'set measure' and I got results related to mathematics and health care, so ... I've never done either of those things at a ball. I'm terrible at math and health care should probably be practiced in a more hygienic setting.

maeday2 · February 2015

As someone who has eaten squirrel and drank moonshine at a family gathering, I am unqualified to answer.

@ohannabelle - Thank you for the laugh!

SP29 · February 2015

BritLady said:

Please allow me to elaborate a bit what I mean by social formalities, whilst pointing out that the list below is neither exclusive nor in any way hierarchical:
Do you regularly attend formal day or evening events? (Daytime events would require either black lounge or morning dress, whilst evening dos would be black/white tie with corresponding ladies' attire)? No. See explanation below. I've been to "more" formal events, events that included formal dinners, but none were true black tie events.
Have you hosted formal dinners (four courses or more), preferably preceded by a written invitation addressed to the lady of the house? Never my own. We invite friends over for dinner, and fully host them. Actually, the most recent one did have 4 courses, however our apartment isn't big enough, so we ate in the living room (the horror!). We also tend to verbally invite or send electronic correspondence when inviting guests to our home. Some of our friends also do not have a "lady of the house"
Do you regularly write thank-you letters, condolence letters, welcome notes or other social correspondence? Yes and no. Depends what it is, though I think I should do more written correspondence (I wasn't really raised to do so, so I follow the common correspondence of my generation).
Have you ever opened a dance or a ball with a set measure? Yes. We did a foxtrot as our first dance at our wedding. We also take ballroom/Latin dance lessons and regularly attend the dinner/dance events hosted by the club- though these are still not black tie.
I am simply curious, and would appreciate many responses.

I agree that I view etiquette as the proper way to treat guests (politely and fairly), regardless of the formality of the event.

The questions you ask seem a bit absurd as most people do not have the opportunity to attend events where the above listed occurs. I've never been to a true black tie event. I've attended upscale events- academic events, business events, a work Christmas party at a classy hotel, afternoon teas at two different fancy hotels (like you can't get any fancier), dinner at high end restaurants- and while DH and I dressed up, none of these events required either morning or black tie dress.

Though attending a black tie event would be much fun, I imagine also quite expensive. Sure, as a guy you can buy one tux and wear it forever, but I assume most ladies attending regular black tie events would not wear the same gown in close succession.

Similarly, I don't think etiquette applies to only the wealthy and upper echelons of society- so I don't think one needs to answer "YES" to any of the questions posted by the OP to say one follows formal etiquette.

themosthappy91 · February 2015

I just really want OP to come back and explain wtf she was thinking with this thread...

Dreamergirl8812 · February 2015

themosthappy91 said:

I just really want OP to come back and explain wtf she was thinking with this thread...

My first thought was that OP is having a honeymoon fund at her potluck wedding and wanted to show us that we don't know what we're talking about re: etiquette.

themosthappy91 · February 2015

Dreamergirl8812 said:

themosthappy91 said:

I just really want OP to come back and explain wtf she was thinking with this thread...

My first thought was that OP is having a honeymoon fund at her potluck wedding and wanted to show us that we don't know what we're talking about re: etiquette.

That would be a highly plausible suggestion except for I happened to look at this particular user's past posts and this girl is reeeeeeal fancy.

LondonLisa · February 2015

My goodness, of all the nouveau riche vulgarity one can see, this post is really pushing the envelope. The entire tone of that post was grossly smug and superior leading me to believe that indeed, no, etiquitte does not play a role in OP's daily life...

amelisha · February 2015

LondonLisa said:

My goodness, of all the nouveau riche vulgarity one can see, this post is really pushing the envelope. The entire tone of that post was grossly smug and superior leading me to believe that indeed, no, etiquette does not play a role in OP's daily life...

Yeah, this. People who do live this kind of lifestyle are usually not vulgar enough to post about it like OP's history suggests. Vulgar is absolutely the word.

As to the questions: 1) Yes, occasionally. 2) No, but I have attended them. 3) Yes. 4) No, I don't dance.

tammym1001 · February 2015

BritLady said:

I have seen lots of discussions on here about the meaning of formality, which led me to wonder what kind of role formal etiquette, social formalities, etc., which is really what wedding etiquette is, plays in your normal life. I often get the feeling that formal etiquette is all but dead and seen as obsolete by most people until a wedding comes along. I have certainly experienced this in the UK, although my social circle is far more traditional and formal than most, and I also observed this during my limited time in the US, where society seems to be even more casual than over here.
Please allow me to elaborate a bit what I mean by social formalities, whilst pointing out that the list below is neither exclusive nor in any way hierarchical:
Do you regularly attend formal day or evening events? (Daytime events would require either black lounge or morning dress, whilst evening dos would be black/white tie with corresponding ladies' attire)? Yes. Several times a year we attend formal charity events for the private schools that DH's children attended. Recently some of them have become a little more casual.
Have you hosted formal dinners (four courses or more), preferably preceded by a written invitation addressed to the lady of the house? Yes although not all invitations went to the lady of the house because some attendees didn't live with their SO's.
Do you regularly write thank-you letters, condolence letters, welcome notes or other social correspondence? Yes. Aside from condolence and thank you notes I also regularly send cards and notes to my friends just to let them know I'm thinking of them. Occasionally they are even accompanied by flowers or gifts depending on the circumstances.
Have you ever opened a dance or a ball with a set measure? No. I'm not much of a dancer and it would kill me to have everyone staring at me. DH and I didn't even do a dance at our own wedding reception.
I am simply curious, and would appreciate many responses.

I answered your questions above, but I would like to add that even though I answered yes to most of them we aren't fancy people.I spend most weekends in yoga pants and a ponytail. It just so happens that we do have to attend fancy events sometimes. I am still a polite person in my everyday life and do my best to make people feel welcome and special which I think is what etiquette is really about. I don't think any of the above things (other than the note writing) are really etiquette. They seem like they are more about social status.

Does formal etiquette play a role in your regular life?

Re: Does formal etiquette play a role in your regular life?

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