The thing about living together is a lot of times you come across things you never could have known to ask about. At that point, the issue is more about knowing how to fight respectfully and work through issues than anything. I never could have known how blood-boilingly mad I'd get when H would essentially hide the shit I left out - he wanted the house to look tidy, but didn't know where my stuff went, so he'd just stick it in whatever the hell cabinet/room/box/hiding place he could think of, and I would lose my mind trying to find my shoes for work in the morning. For us, this happened before we were married. For many people, it happens after. Either way, you either decide "I can't live like this; I'm out" or you work through it. If you're committed to working through that little shit and not let it build up and lead to bigger fights, it doesn't matter whether it happens before marriage or after. If you're not committed, you're doomed either way.
This.
I went into my marriage knowing that it was possible that I might find it ridiculous that the toaster oven has to sit on the counter or that he'd ruin several of my pots and pans and clothes by not knowing how to wash things. I knew that we'd have somewhat different priorities for spending money on fixing up a rental house to our liking (for me, it's a temporary living situation and we don't own it; for him, why not make it as comfortable as we can?). I knew this because we could and did talk about the place we would be living in and our approach to finances.
But I also trusted H to work with me on that stuff if need be, and I knew that sort of thing wouldn't be a dealbreaker, because the commitment meant to both of us that we would work through that.
ETA and we were already practiced in respectful ways to disagree about things. It's not been bad.
We've been together for over 10 years, lived together for over 9 years. Honestly our wedding was...a change in legal status and publicly saying "I choose her for life" to people we like a lot.
In all other ways, we considered ourselves life partners long before the wedding. We had combined our households, were on the same health insurance, shared a Costco membership and cell phone plan. We were each other's POAs, emergency contacts, and a whole buttload of other shit. There were so many papers. We even knew each other's ATM pins! (that's love yo)
I agree with @lolo883 though, it feels like I need to work harder to protect this thing between us now. I can't really put into words better than that. Those are good words. Cause, I stood up in front of my community and said "Yeah, this chick, forever" so I need to work on making sure that happens.
I read this too fast and thought @magicink was saying that she & her wifey are each other's POAS. I did a double-take there. I'm glad that y'all aren't doing things that way!!
We've been together for over 10 years, lived together for over 9 years. Honestly our wedding was...a change in legal status and publicly saying "I choose her for life" to people we like a lot.
In all other ways, we considered ourselves life partners long before the wedding. We had combined our households, were on the same health insurance, shared a Costco membership and cell phone plan. We were each other's POAs, emergency contacts, and a whole buttload of other shit. There were so many papers. We even knew each other's ATM pins! (that's love yo)
I agree with @lolo883 though, it feels like I need to work harder to protect this thing between us now. I can't really put into words better than that. Those are good words. Cause, I stood up in front of my community and said "Yeah, this chick, forever" so I need to work on making sure that happens.
I read this too fast and thought @magicink was saying that she & her wifey are each other's POAS. I did a double-take there. I'm glad that y'all aren't doing things that way!!
????
Isn't that exactly what she said? What's wrong with being your spouses POA.
We've been together for over 10 years, lived together for over 9 years. Honestly our wedding was...a change in legal status and publicly saying "I choose her for life" to people we like a lot.
In all other ways, we considered ourselves life partners long before the wedding. We had combined our households, were on the same health insurance, shared a Costco membership and cell phone plan. We were each other's POAs, emergency contacts, and a whole buttload of other shit. There were so many papers. We even knew each other's ATM pins! (that's love yo)
I agree with @lolo883 though, it feels like I need to work harder to protect this thing between us now. I can't really put into words better than that. Those are good words. Cause, I stood up in front of my community and said "Yeah, this chick, forever" so I need to work on making sure that happens.
I read this too fast and thought @magicink was saying that she & her wifey are each other's POAS. I did a double-take there. I'm glad that y'all aren't doing things that way!!
????
Isn't that exactly what she said? What's wrong with being your spouses POA.
I get frustrated when I hear people say that you have to live with your spouse before marriage to know what you are getting yourself into.
I get annoyed by this, too. We didn't live together, but that doesn't mean I didn't know what I was getting into.
Ditto.
I'm glad it worked for all of you, personally though, I don't think I could marry someone before dating them for a lot of years and living with them for some, too.
I'm not married yet, but when FI and first moved in together, it was hard. He's a morning person and I am not so it took us a quite a few months to work out a routine that we were both happy with. Even now, it's still a struggle sometimes, but we've come up with a compromise and know what the other person needs. I think it eliminates a lot of the adjustment period when you live together first. I get that it's not for everyone, but I can't imagine doing it any other way.
@larrygaga on TTC forums POAS is short for pee on a stick. As in take a pregnancy test. Not just on random sticks. That'd be weird. And unhelpful in determining pregnancy.
In this case I was referring to each of us having a POA, power of attorney.
@larrygaga on TTC forums POAS is short for pee on a stick. As in take a pregnancy test. Not just on random sticks. That'd be weird. And unhelpful in determining pregnancy.
In this case I was referring to each of us having a POA, power of attorney.
I mean, I dunno, you guys are into what you're into. Watersports are not my thing, but that's cool if that's your jive. We don't judge.
Two good friends I have who are both in their second year of marriage said the first year (last year) was really hard because of the sharing money aspect. One couple worked things out eventually and the other couple... I'm not so confident on their lasting ability unfortunately. Someone getting mad at the other for buying something "stupid" -- concert tickets, a new pocketbook, whatever. It's a huge problem for them. It would easily be a problem for me and my FI too. My FI loves to shop on Amazon after a few glasses of wine. There is a Home Goods store located dangerously across the street from my office. There would be fights if we shared a bank account. Right now we have perfectly good financial system and a splitting up the bill system that works for us, therefore we decided to not share a bank account after we get married (except for a joint savings that we can both contribute to). No need to fix our system if it isn't broke; if there is something I can do now that might prevent future fights and a lousy first year of marriage, I will do it. I'm so glad you and your DH are enjoying every day together... I hope the same for my FI and me. I have truly never realized the importance of patience and communication until my current relationship.
We've been together for over 10 years, lived together for over 9 years. Honestly our wedding was...a change in legal status and publicly saying "I choose her for life" to people we like a lot.
In all other ways, we considered ourselves life partners long before the wedding. We had combined our households, were on the same health insurance, shared a Costco membership and cell phone plan. We were each other's POAs, emergency contacts, and a whole buttload of other shit. There were so many papers. We even knew each other's ATM pins! (that's love yo)
I agree with @lolo883 though, it feels like I need to work harder to protect this thing between us now. I can't really put into words better than that. Those are good words. Cause, I stood up in front of my community and said "Yeah, this chick, forever" so I need to work on making sure that happens.
I read this too fast and thought @magicink was saying that she & her wifey are each other's POAS. I did a double-take there. I'm glad that y'all aren't doing things that way!!
????
Isn't that exactly what she said? What's wrong with being your spouses POA.
@larrygaga on TTC forums POAS is short for pee on a stick. As in take a pregnancy test. Not just on random sticks. That'd be weird. And unhelpful in determining pregnancy.
In this case I was referring to each of us having a POA, power of attorney.
I didn't even think of pee on a stick because I work in a place where I use the plural of power of attorney all the time and I am not even close to having a baby lol
This is probably a stupid question, but to those of you who have a shared household account with your SO, and seperate personal accounts, how do you do that? Figure out your shared bills and then have a certain amount from your paychecks go in to this shared account? How do you account for things that may vary from week to week like groceries?I feel really stupid for asking how it works, but I'm really interested in it and feel it might work best for FI and I.
This is probably a stupid question, but to those of you who have a shared household account with your SO, and seperate personal accounts, how do you do that? Figure out your shared bills and then have a certain amount from your paychecks go in to this shared account? How do you account for things that may vary from week to week like groceries?I feel really stupid for asking how it works, but I'm really interested in it and feel it might work best for FI and I.
So we're not married yet but FI and i have been living together for years. We have a joint account that we each put money into with every check. It started as a joint travel account to save for a trip to Thailand. Now it is a "travel and bill account". We each have a set amount to cover fixed bills (rent), travel savings. Then I pay for cable and internet and he pays for heat and electric. We take turns with other things like the vet bills, food, cat food etc.
This is probably a stupid question, but to those of you who have a shared household account with your SO, and seperate personal accounts, how do you do that? Figure out your shared bills and then have a certain amount from your paychecks go in to this shared account? How do you account for things that may vary from week to week like groceries?I feel really stupid for asking how it works, but I'm really interested in it and feel it might work best for FI and I.
Yep. We looked at our average grocery bills over about 3 months, added fixed things like mortgage, cable, cell phones, etc, plus what we hoped to put into savings each month, and had that direct deposited from each check. At the end of them month I move money over from checking into savings. That way we have a little cushion if we go over, and if we stay under we save a little more.
This is probably a stupid question, but to those of you who have a shared household account with your SO, and seperate personal accounts, how do you do that? Figure out your shared bills and then have a certain amount from your paychecks go in to this shared account? How do you account for things that may vary from week to week like groceries?I feel really stupid for asking how it works, but I'm really interested in it and feel it might work best for FI and I.
When DH and I moved in together we created a joint account. I had already had an established budget so we split everything in half that was remotely a "joint" expense, including groceries.
When we got married we took our take home income and decided (together) on how our money would be spent. We use a virtual envelope system to track our spending.
This is probably a stupid question, but to those of you who have a shared household account with your SO, and seperate personal accounts, how do you do that? Figure out your shared bills and then have a certain amount from your paychecks go in to this shared account? How do you account for things that may vary from week to week like groceries?I feel really stupid for asking how it works, but I'm really interested in it and feel it might work best for FI and I.
For bills like cable, electric, etc., the money comes out of my FI's checking account in the middle of the month and I transfer a lump sum from my checking to his checking so that we split those things evenly. Then for our house, we're both on the account that the mortgage comes out of so at the end of the month we each transfer money from our separate checkings to that account. Then lastly, if it's a good month, we'll each also transfer money from our separate checkings to our joint savings account (which is right now is the wedding fund). It's a lot of transferring now that I'm seeing it written out, but it works for us.
This is probably a stupid question, but to those of you who have a shared household account with your SO, and seperate personal accounts, how do you do that? Figure out your shared bills and then have a certain amount from your paychecks go in to this shared account? How do you account for things that may vary from week to week like groceries?I feel really stupid for asking how it works, but I'm really interested in it and feel it might work best for FI and I.
FI makes like 90million times as much as I do. I have been saving for the wedding and I pay my phone and car payments, student loans and my extra goodies like clothes and eating out. He pays for everything else.
During his old job, I made a lot more than he did. I paid for everything, basically, and he kept his car alive to go to work. We were super, super poor.
The truth is that I wanted separate accounts because I will always make so much less than him, so I thought it would be better for both our mental health if I had my own money to pay for my own things. He lets me buy him dinner and gifts with my own money and doesn't insist he pays for it, even though it makes zero sense. I am a little touchy about making less. We do have access and cards to each other's bank accounts, so we both have our own checking and we have 3 savings that are each for different things. (wedding, my schooling, future house)
We basically look at it like a community pot, and we both are big savers because of all this school debt (don't even get me fucking started on student loans). We both contribute a pretty fair amount. If he made less and I made more, we would adjust our community spending accordingly. Eventually, when I'm done with school completely and work full time, I will hopefully be making more to pay for more. We never really break it down into percents, it's just an estimate of what's fair. Maybe we will go into percents when we have more equity. Right now we rent, and have almost both cars paid off, and we only really have loans and one credit card bill to pay off. So we don't really have much to fight over.
It's always good to be respectful of each other. I don't demand FI to buy me things, I pay for them. Even though it makes more sense for him to pay for it, since he has more extra money than I do. I never ask him why he bought x shoes or demand he get the chicken instead of steak.
I grew up with my parents constantly bitching at each other about money. They would accuse each other of spending too much and they really kind of hate each other now. His parents are the same way. We decided we will never really care what the other spends money on if the bills are getting paid and our savings are where they need to be.
That's just my really long not super helpful rant on how we do it while keeping the relationship alive. I think this is about how most people do it. I read about splitting up the household financeslike this in a relationship advice book, and this set-up has worked for us for the last 6 years. NOT a super long time, and we are still really really young.
This is probably a stupid question, but to those of you who have a shared household account with your SO, and seperate personal accounts, how do you do that? Figure out your shared bills and then have a certain amount from your paychecks go in to this shared account? How do you account for things that may vary from week to week like groceries?I feel really stupid for asking how it works, but I'm really interested in it and feel it might work best for FI and I.
We both contribute a same set amount each month to the joint account. He'd like to pay more since he earns more, but then I feel like I'm not pulling equal weight. Just over half gets actually spent on bills/groceries. Everything is automatically debited out of the account, so we don't need to remember to pay bills (I'm horrible at that), and we always put in extra. We figured out our average bills and looked at how much we could afford to contribute while still giving us spending cash. For example, if our bills/mortgage cost about $1000/month (varies with food/bills), we'd put in say $800 each for a total of $1600, and use the leftover $600 each month for savings every few months (Just random numbers).
Every couple months, DH transfers a chunk of the extra leftover money into a savings account. We use that for bigger joint purchases/vacations/etc. Anything over and above the contribution is our own personal money for whatever we want. DH has a serious Apple addiction and I live at my Chiro/Massage place.
DH does online transfers, since his personal accounts are with the same bank. I bank elsewhere, so I just write him/us a cheque every month. It saves on my online transfer costs to a different bank.
We do the same as others, except with my account instead of a joint account. We add up everything (mortgage, phones, cable, groceries, etc) and we came to a number that is typical/average for most months. He goes to the ATM and gives me the cash for his half once a month and then I put it in my account which all the bills are automatically set to pay from. It works best for us because we're each left with whatever is in our account to do as we please. We don't care what's in the other person's and we don't monitor purchases because like @larrygaga said once the bills are paid you do whatever you like with the rest. You worked hard for it, and who am I to tell you that you can't have that xbox game or for him to say I can't have my massage? We typically each save 50% of what's left over in our accounts but if one month we decide to buy a big item, so be it, no biggie, no arguments.
We lived together for 3.5 years and were together almost 8 years when we got married. Our first year was our best year! H got a new job, we had more money, we went on a few small trips and bought our first house!
Then the day after our 1 year anniversary our cat got really sick and we got stuck with a $1500 vet bill that we hadn't planned on. It threw us off a bit at first as everything went so smoothly the first year.
We have our finances semi combined and think we'll transition it further once we have kids. We got in the habit of sharing money once we started living together as we didn't make a lot of money it was basically let's pool all our money together and hopefully it is enough!
Being married feels different to me. Nothing drastic but just more solid. Mostly when we fight. I notice we make up and forgive faster. We know we have to at some point so let's make it happen faster.
H and I have a joint checking/savings and our own checking/savings.
We each put 80% of our paychecks in the join account. This pays our bills (rent, car payments, cable, electricity, etc) We figure out what we can save each month and that goes into savings. Other 20% goes into our individual checking accounts. That money is used for gas, lunches, and whatever else. So far that's been working for us. He can't get mad on how much I spend on mani/pedis or purses and I can't get mad over what he spends on video games or going out to lunch.
I've been thinking about this a lot since you posted it.
DH and I have been married just over one month, so obviously not long. I was wondering the other day if the "honeymoon phase" as real. DH and I bicker a lot and that's just how we are. It's not like an argument but just what we do, we like to give each other a hard time. As far as full-on fights, they aren't very often.
However, even since we got back from our honeymoon, things have been hard. Not necessarily because marriage changed things but we have been going through a hard time financially. DH is in school full time and working part time, only what he is able, so he doesn't bring home much money. I work full time but am just out of college in a governmental job and don't make a lot. Equivalent of a teacher. I don't love my job because of my assistant and it isn't exactly what I want to do, but it's a great stepping stone. DH and I both drive 1 hour to and from work/school every day. It takes its toll on us.
We have been through worse and harder times since we've been together, and we'll get through this. We have always known that we can work together to get through the rough times and get to the good times. Last night, DH and I had this conversation:
Me: "I'm just sad. We're poor and I just am ready to not be poor." (I'm in tears at this point, just so stressed).
DH: "We aren't poor. Yeah, we may have $0 in the bank account, but we have a roof over our heads, food in the fridge, and propane to heat the house. I have you and that is all I ever need."
I think the PP's are right in saying it is all about expectations. We knew marriage will be a little different even though we have lived together for two years. When people ask I say, "It's the same, but different." You can't walk away from that relationship anymore. there's paperwork and lawyers now.
I get frustrated when I hear people say that you have to live with your spouse before marriage to know what you are getting yourself into.
I get annoyed by this, too. We didn't live together, but that doesn't mean I didn't know what I was getting into.
What I personally mean by this is that you should do it to be sure you're compatible before signing that oh so very binding marriage contract. Dating for a long time is so so different than combining households. Unfortunately living together doesn't always work out like it apparently did for you guys, and it's better to be able to just leave without involving a lawyer. Just remember what you experience is only what you experience and not a good sample of the world. At all.
But the real moral of the story is you can't really generalize any concept in marriage.
I respect your thoughts, and I know they are pretty widely shared. But here is the thing, I knew my H well enough LONG before we got married that I knew what it would be like.
From very early on, we had open, frank discussions about what we expected out of marriage. We traveled together, spent lots of time with each other's families, we knew what we expected from each other and made well-informed, adult decisions.
Without living together.
To insinuate that the ONLY way you can really know someone is to combine households and live together isn't really true. You need to do your homework regardless, but you can easily do it with different addresses.
Yeah, I dated my DH for 11 years before we got engaged and we have been together for 13 years now. We never really lived together during that time.
Regardless, I know him very well and he knows me very well. We aren't exhibiting any behaviors that are different or new just because we are living together.
"Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."
I've been thinking about this a lot since you posted it.
DH and I have been married just over one month, so obviously not long. I was wondering the other day if the "honeymoon phase" as real. DH and I bicker a lot and that's just how we are. It's not like an argument but just what we do, we like to give each other a hard time. As far as full-on fights, they aren't very often.
However, even since we got back from our honeymoon, things have been hard. Not necessarily because marriage changed things but we have been going through a hard time financially. DH is in school full time and working part time, only what he is able, so he doesn't bring home much money. I work full time but am just out of college in a governmental job and don't make a lot. Equivalent of a teacher. I don't love my job because of my assistant and it isn't exactly what I want to do, but it's a great stepping stone. DH and I both drive 1 hour to and from work/school every day. It takes its toll on us.
We have been through worse and harder times since we've been together, and we'll get through this. We have always known that we can work together to get through the rough times and get to the good times. Last night, DH and I had this conversation:
Me: "I'm just sad. We're poor and I just am ready to not be poor." (I'm in tears at this point, just so stressed).
DH: "We aren't poor. Yeah, we may have $0 in the bank account, but we have a roof over our heads, food in the fridge, and propane to heat the house. I have you and that is all I ever need."
I think the PP's are right in saying it is all about expectations. We knew marriage will be a little different even though we have lived together for two years. When people ask I say, "It's the same, but different." You can't walk away from that relationship anymore. there's paperwork and lawyers now.
The bolded is probably the sweetest thing I've heard in a long time.
@emmaaa Just keep in mind that you have an end in sight- when your H graduates and can finally work full time. Some people don't even have that, they are "poor" and they are already at their end game with nothing better coming down the pipeline. I think that will make it easier for you to get through it.
This is probably a stupid question, but to those of you who have a shared household account with your SO, and seperate personal accounts, how do you do that? Figure out your shared bills and then have a certain amount from your paychecks go in to this shared account? How do you account for things that may vary from week to week like groceries?I feel really stupid for asking how it works, but I'm really interested in it and feel it might work best for FI and I.
Life is forever evolving with us.
When we first got together I owned a condo. We paid equal amounts since the expenses were based on my much lower income. DH just direct deposited half the living expenses (minus groceries and eating out) into my account and I paid the bills.
When we moved my lower salary became even lower (was unemployed for a while too). DH's salary higher salary became higher. Our living expenses increased. We re-evaluated our arrangement. DH contributed 75% of the expenses to the joint account via direct deposit. I paid the other 25%.
After we moved again my salary raised a little bit (but not even close to where it started). DH's salary was lowered. Our expenses became lower. We again re-evaluated the situation. This time I picked up more expenses and DH just put more into savings.
We again move (we move a lot). And again re-evaluated since our living expenses increased and DH's income increased.
I guess my point is once you set something up it doesn't mean it's has to be for life. Jobs change, salaries change, expenses change, you have kids and decide to be a SAHP. If it doesn't work, then re-evaluate.
Food and groceries do not come out of the joint account. We have a complicated life when it comes to food. This time of year DH is home 3 nights a week for dinner. Only 1-2 lunches. In the summer he is home once a month if that for either meal. Being the chef he just cooks whatever he wants at work. No costs involved. I work from home and eat my non-DH's meals at home.
Then add in DH flat out refuses to have a food and eating out budget. Non-negotiable for him. So we just pay out of our separate accounts. Food is important to him so he is willing and able to pay for food with his fun money. I give myself a budget for what I'm willing to pay a week for food. Most of the time I don't hit my self-imposed budget because DH picks up most of the costs. Cool, more money in savings for me.
What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests. Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated.
@emmaaa Just keep in mind that you have an end in sight- when your H graduates and can finally work full time. Some people don't even have that, they are "poor" and they are already at their end game with nothing better coming down the pipeline. I think that will make it easier for you to get through it.
You are absolutely right. He graduates in May and even if he stays where he is now part time and just works 40 hours a week at $10/hr, we'll be doing better. Thank you!
This is probably a stupid question, but to those of you who have a shared household account with your SO, and seperate personal accounts, how do you do that? Figure out your shared bills and then have a certain amount from your paychecks go in to this shared account? How do you account for things that may vary from week to week like groceries?I feel really stupid for asking how it works, but I'm really interested in it and feel it might work best for FI and I.
We still kind of look at it as "our" money so we don't "split" things down to the penny even though we have separate accounts. He makes more than I do, he pays the "big" mortgage, I pay the bills, my student loans, the "small" mortgage and I also get the rent on that house so it's a wash for me. Whoever goes to the grocery store pays for the groceries that time, if I "run out" of money that month I just ask him to go get the groceries or ask him to fill my car. Home improvement supplies and vacations go on a joint CC and we both pay what we can (usually more for him).
If you're having a great time your first year, people will say "oh it's just the honeymoon phase, it'll change."
If you're having trouble your first year, people will say "oh, the first year is always the hardest."
So apparently everything is normal, but everything will change.
(FTR, H and I have been together for 8 years. Getting married changed very little about our lives. This is partially because one week into dating, I told him "I don't do frivolous relationships. If I'm with you, it's because I think we could work long term. Are you on board with that?" He thought about it and said "yes, that sounds right." So we knew from the start that we were in this for the long haul.)
Re: OMHs- Is the first year the toughest?
This.
I went into my marriage knowing that it was possible that I might find it ridiculous that the toaster oven has to sit on the counter or that he'd ruin several of my pots and pans and clothes by not knowing how to wash things. I knew that we'd have somewhat different priorities for spending money on fixing up a rental house to our liking (for me, it's a temporary living situation and we don't own it; for him, why not make it as comfortable as we can?). I knew this because we could and did talk about the place we would be living in and our approach to finances.
But I also trusted H to work with me on that stuff if need be, and I knew that sort of thing wouldn't be a dealbreaker, because the commitment meant to both of us that we would work through that.
ETA and we were already practiced in respectful ways to disagree about things. It's not been bad.
????
Isn't that exactly what she said? What's wrong with being your spouses POA.
Yeah, I dated my DH for 11 years before we got engaged and we have been together for 13 years now. We never really lived together during that time.
Regardless, I know him very well and he knows me very well. We aren't exhibiting any behaviors that are different or new just because we are living together.
"Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."
If you're having trouble your first year, people will say "oh, the first year is always the hardest."
So apparently everything is normal, but everything will change.