Am I being crazy?- Vent

stefuhknee · March 2015

Hi Ladies, I've mostly been a lurker but I need some advice/reality check from you wise gals.

Next month my SO and I will have been together for 8 years, we've been living together for 2 1/2 years and have a 2 year old son together. I am more than ready for us to take the next step and plan to get married. We have discussed it and it just doesn't seem to be on his radar. He doesn't understand why it's important to me for us to get married. How can I explain to him that it's not something that I'm willing to not do without giving him an ultimatum? .

I feel like Jennifer Aniston in "He's Just not that Into you". She leaves her guy because he doesn't want to get married and then she realizes that being with him is more important than being married and he ends up proposing anyway.

So am I just being crazy, do I need to be patient and hold out for when he's ready? I don't even know what a reasonable timeline is anymore since we've been together for 8yrs already.

bethsmiles · March 2015

In your discussions have you asked him why he hasn't proposed yet? Does he not feel ready - if so why not? Does he not feel it's important -discuss why it is important to you. I'm not sure you need a timeline talk as much as a is marriage a thing we both really want talk.

stefuhknee · March 2015

@bethsmiles- I know it's not as important to him. He's told me "not to feel pressured by society". He's asked me what would change if we were married. Honestly, in the last year he's flip flopped so much, sometimes he wants to get married other times he doesn't. He says he needs time to save money to get a ring and propose the right way but I know the right way could be no ring in the middle of our apartment on any given day. I guess I just want him to want it too.

bethsmiles · March 2015

stefuhknee said:
@bethsmiles- I know it's not as important to him. He's told me "not to feel pressured by society". He's asked me what would change if we were married. Honestly, in the last year he's flip flopped so much, sometimes he wants to get married other times he doesn't. He says he needs time to save money to get a ring and propose the right way but I know the right way could be no ring in the middle of our apartment on any given day. I guess I just want him to want it too.

That would piss me off. You realize by saying that he dismissing your feelings on the subject and essentially saying you wanting to get married is invalid because it's just pressure from society. And that's just bull shit. You'll never be able to work this out if he won't even recognize that you want to get married because you want it not because of society or whatever.

stefuhknee · March 2015

@bethsmiles- Yes, that absolutely did piss me off as it's completely invalid. It just kind of sucks, we've been together since I was 18 and it did not occur to me to discuss marriage at such a young age. He never voiced any anti-marriage views and we'd speak of our hypothetical wedding plans so I don't know what's changed. It's frustrating but I know the only thing I can do is really demand a straight answer from him. Thanks for responding.

stefuhknee · March 2015

TwoDimes said:

stefuhknee said:
@bethsmiles- I know it's not as important to him. He's told me "not to feel pressured by society". He's asked me what would change if we were married. Honestly, in the last year he's flip flopped so much, sometimes he wants to get married other times he doesn't. He says he needs time to save money to get a ring and propose the right way but I know the right way could be no ring in the middle of our apartment on any given day. I guess I just want him to want it too.
The flip flopping would be a big red flag for me.

Wanting to get married someday but not quite being ready yet (or wanting to save for a ring, wait for the right time to propose, etc) is perfectly acceptable. If that were the case, I'd tell you to be patient, get a hobby, and keep open lines of communication about timelines and whatnot.

But if he can't even decide if he wants to be married period... that'd be a problem for me. You're allowed to have deal-breakers, non-negotiables, whatever you want to call it, and "getting married someday" is a completely normal deal-breaker. I think you're perfectly within your rights to say, "Look, it's important to me to get married at some point. I need to know if you see that in our future or not."

edited for spelling

Thanks, this makes me feel less crazy for feeling strongly about it.

Blackbird230 · March 2015

Have you discussed some of the pros of being married and why you want to be? Even though FI and I are engaged he never realized some of the "perks" like being allowed in his hospital room if he falls ill. The government doesn't care if you're living together and have a kid when it comes to personal medical things. It's a large reason as well (not to say the only or more important than any other reason) that same sex couples have fought for marriage equality.

untouchablets · March 2015

What @TwoDimes said. BF and I aren't engaged yet either and have also had disagreements regarding a timeline (though we don't live together and do not have children so I realize our situations are vastly different) but we are working through them and part of working through that is communicating what things are not negotiable and what you can compromise on. If he doesn't want to get married period, and you do someday, you will never be on the same page. Like dimes said, it is completely okay to have those deal-breakers if they are really important to you. You're not crazy, I think what you want is very reasonable.

buddysmom80 · March 2015

Even though some people don't think a lot change when you get married, they do. I got married, my H's credit score improved because of my credit score, I was able to go on his medical insurance which had WAY better benefits than my employer, there are other reasons too that I can't think off the top of my head.

To the PP that said that someone can't be in a hospital room if another partner/spouse/whatever falls ill, that is 100% not true. A lot of hospitals are letting go of the strict HIPAA codes that were imparted years ago due to the increased LGBLT population and definition of marriage, partnership, etc. As long as you (the patient) are okay with it, and there isn't anyone that's on an advance directive/living will that is against you being in the room, then yes you can be in a room with your SO before being married. They do NOT have the right to make healthcare provisions if they are not your healthcare advocate though. Just a little factual information for you...

H was in a hospital room with me after I had my gallbladder removed and we were just dating, he wasn't kicked out. If I didn't want him in the room, then yeah, they won't allow him in there.

Blackbird230 · March 2015

@buddysmom80 thanks for the update. I only knew about the HIPPA laws.

eilis1228 · March 2015

Just to piggyback a bit off of @buddysmom80, a lot of health insurance plans will let you add someone you aren't legally married to. I was able to add FI to everything year because the government is redefining what it means to be a spouse. I can't add him to auto insurance as a spouse until we have a legal wedding date, and our credit scores aren't linked, but the legal benefits of getting married are changing quite a bit right now.

In regards to your issue, I'm a little torn. His responses are red flags, but it sounds like he's already committed to you as well. I think you need to get past your fear as coming across as too clingy or BSC and just talk to him about it. Lay it all out there on why getting married is important to you. You also need to figure out what you'll do if you guys remain on two different pages. Is this something you'll leave him over? Are you OK with never getting married if that's something he really feels strongly against? I would also find out specifically why he is against marriage. Is it the wedding aspect that he's against, or the institution overall? You both need to sit down and discuss your feelings and come to an agreement about what is best for your relationship.

buddysmom80 · March 2015

Blackbird230 said:
@buddysmom80 thanks for the update. I only knew about the HIPPA laws.

It's common sense though. A lot of people have kids together and aren't married and the SO's are allowed in the room, there is not black and white definition of "falling ill" either. I just wish people did research before saying "Oh you can't do this before you're married, but you can do that."

nycgal85 · March 2015

Also, re the health stuff. Many states have domestic partnership laws which are not just for same-sex couples, but if a couple has been living together for one year and have joint accounts, they can be considered common law married. NY is one such state, however my employer has a stipulation that says only married couples or same-sex couples can take advantage of the health insurance. Which I understand because I work in an academic institution, our insurance is fantastic. But FI and I have had the discussion many times that when we get married he will be able to get on my insurance since his is awful!

In regards to the OP's question....I don't know what to say really. It seems like he may never come around, and I think you need to assess whether that's okay. And if not move on. Like others have said, it's one thing to not be ready (emotionally, financially, etc), and to put it off. FI's two best friends have been with their GF's for 8 and 10 years and neither are engaged yet, even though both GFs are pissed...especially since we just got engaged after just under 3 years -- however, we're also 2 years older than them, but that's neither here nor there.

But if he flip-flops like seriously on the marriage issue, he probably has no desire to but is essentially stringing you along by getting your hopes up when he says maybe. I don't agree with ultimatums, but I think you two need to have a serious discussion, sooner rather than later. Especially with a kid.

500days · March 2015

I think the PPs have asked really great questions and have provided great advice too. Are you both 26 years old? I know that this could be totally off base, but my FI was NOT ready to get married when he was 26. He proposed when he turned 29, because he started to want marriage/kids/settling down. Honestly, marriage is important to me- but I don't think I would leave FI over just that. It depends on your priorities in life. If I had a kid, like you do, I'm sure I would feel differently.

stefuhknee · March 2015

Thank you all for your responses. The information about insurance is pretty helpful too because I am currently uninsured but SO has great insurance so that's definitely something for me to look into.

I don't think I would leave him if we didn't get married, It's something I want but we have a son and aside from the marriage issue we are happy and I don't think it'd be worth it to leave because of that and I'm sure he knows that.

eilis1228- I think you're right, at this point in our relationship he already knows me well enough to know I'm not crazy without good cause, so I need to just get over it and lay all my cards on the table and come to a resolution.

@500days - he turned 27 last month, I'll be 27 in July. I know we are young but I also feel ready so maybe he just feels too young still, not sure.

cu97tiger · March 2015

@buddysmom80 - While that is all great factual information, the truth is, there are still some places/states/hospitals and circumstances (contention with the family) that could keep an SO out of a hospital room when a spouse would be allowed in. If her BF couldn't communicate and his parents didn't want her in the room, it would be a LOT tougher to get in in some cases than if they were married. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that being married GUARANTEES you access to that hospital room.

southernbelle0915 · March 2015

buddysmom80 said:
Even though some people don't think a lot change when you get married, they do. I got married, my H's credit score improved because of my credit score, I was able to go on his medical insurance which had WAY better benefits than my employer, there are other reasons too that I can't think off the top of my head.
To the PP that said that someone can't be in a hospital room if another partner/spouse/whatever falls ill, that is 100% not true. A lot of hospitals are letting go of the strict HIPAA codes that were imparted years ago due to the increased LGBLT population and definition of marriage, partnership, etc. As long as you (the patient) are okay with it, and there isn't anyone that's on an advance directive/living will that is against you being in the room, then yes you can be in a room with your SO before being married. They do NOT have the right to make healthcare provisions if they are not your healthcare advocate though. Just a little factual information for you...
H was in a hospital room with me after I had my gallbladder removed and we were just dating, he wasn't kicked out. If I didn't want him in the room, then yeah, they won't allow him in there.

This is not inaccurate (source: this is exactly my field). HIPAA isn't a code. It's a federal law. And the law hasn't gotten more lenient since its compliance deadline in 2003. Unless a hospital willfully decides to disobey federal law (unlikely), they aren't "letting go of strict HIPAA codes".

What HAS changed, is that people and hospitals are more aware of patient rights and how to exercise them within the law to accommodate same sex relationships. Just to emphasize, hospitals are (well, should) not be letting go of HIPAA standards - they should be complying as it's federal law.

lavenderfields13 · March 2015

cu97tiger said:
@buddysmom80 - While that is all great factual information, the truth is, there are still some places/states/hospitals and circumstances (contention with the family) that could keep an SO out of a hospital room when a spouse would be allowed in. If her BF couldn't communicate and his parents didn't want her in the room, it would be a LOT tougher to get in in some cases than if they were married. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that being married GUARANTEES you access to that hospital room.

This is what I think about too. Like if FI was in a coma or something and his family hated me they could refuse to let me in the room and be involved in his medical care. This does happen. Awhile I go I watched a story about a same sex couple that this happened to. One partner was in the hospital- may have been in a coma/had brain damage, something like that. That guy's parents refused to acknowledge he was in a relationship with the other man and they even banned him from the funeral when he did pass away. It was so heartbreaking.

phira · March 2015

I know that my husband's employer does not treat domestic partnerships as marriages when it comes to benefits because same-sex marriage has been legal here for more than 10 years. So, since everyone is able to get married, you can only share benefits when you're married.

Honestly, I don't think this comes down to pros and cons of being married. A lot of the reasons that many of us have wanted to be married are pretty intangible, and even if not much changes at the surface. You basically shouldn't have to defend your reasons for wanting to be married.

The flip-side, though, is that he doesn't have to defend his reasons for not wanting to be married. It doesn't really change all that much in terms of commitment: not being married doesn't make a person less committed, and being married makes it harder, but not impossible, to end a relationship. And a lot of the reasons why it's hard to leave a marriage are related to the other aspects of a committed relationship: living together, having kids together, joint accounts, etc. So your SO might be just as committed to you as my husband is to me, legal documents be damned.

What is a problem, though, is that he's not being straightforward with you (by changing his mind, and generally not being clear about what he wants), and he's invalidating your feelings (by telling you marriage isn't that important, or that you're just being pressured by society). That's not okay.

You need to take some time for yourself and decide what you want. Do you want to be married? Could you live the rest of your life with him, happily with no regrets, if you never got married to him?* When would you want to be engaged or married by? What do you want your future to look like?

Really take your time and be thoughtful and honest with yourself. Maybe you want to wait a little longer to get engaged. Maybe you really can't see yourself as living happily without being married. Maybe you're actually not sure--that's okay, too.

Then, you need to talk to him. Ask him some of the same questions and let him know that you want honesty because you really have no idea what's going on in his mind.

If you come to the conclusion that you really cannot be in a relationship that's not heading towards marriage within X amount of time, and he comes to the conclusion that he does not want to get married ... then it's probably time to end the relationship. An ultimatum would be, "MARRY ME OR I'LL BREAK UP WITH YOU," using the threat of a break-up to pressure someone into doing something. But, "I love you, but I want to get married some day, and since we want different things, we need to find those things with other people," is not an ultimatum. It's recognition of an irreconcilable difference.

* This is actually how I feel about children. I could live the rest of my life, happily with no regrets, if J and I never had children. That doesn't mean I'm not up for having kids--just that if J turned to me and said, "I've been thinking about it, and I really just do not want to have kids," it wouldn't be a deal-breaker.

Swazzle · March 2015

You've already gotten a ton of great advice but I just wanted to chime in and say that you have to decide for yourself if your SO says he never wants to get married at all, if you're ok with that.

Getting married is something that was important to me. We talked about the possibility of marriage very early on in our relationship and if at any point he had told me he didn't want that, I would have definitely had to rethink my relationship and our future and that's ok. It's a personal and important decision. Personally, I think I would have grown to resent him for it because despite being completely in love with him, like I said, marriage was important to me.

phira · March 2015

Swazzle said:
You've already gotten a ton of great advice but I just wanted to chime in and say that you have to decide for yourself if your SO says he never wants to get married at all, if you're ok with that.
Getting married is something that was important to me. We talked about the possibility of marriage very early on in our relationship and if at any point he had told me he didn't want that, I would have definitely had to rethink my relationship and our future and that's ok. It's a personal and important decision. Personally, I think I would have grown to resent him for it because despite being completely in love with him, like I said, marriage was important to me.

Yeah, this exactly. That's why I think that the OP needs to really be honest with herself about what she'd be okay with.

kvruns · March 2015

Chiming in on insurance- very rarely will you see a group insurance policy that allows opposite sex domestic partners. It happens some places but not often. Some allow for same sex domestic partners but opposite sex is rare since they can get married while same sex can't in all places. I workfor a group health Insurance broker and can only think of 1 client for sure and maybe 1 other that allows opposite sex domestic partner coverage.

ChemFanatic25 · March 2015

kvruns said:
Chiming in on insurance- very rarely will you see a group insurance policy that allows opposite sex domestic partners. It happens some places but not often. Some allow for same sex domestic partners but opposite sex is rare since they can get married while same sex can't in all places. I workfor a group health Insurance broker and can only think of 1 client for sure and maybe 1 other that allows opposite sex domestic partner coverage.

kvruns said:

kvruns said:
Stuck in the damn box!

kvruns said:
So my last company, my current company, and my boyfriend's company are pretty cool then. All of them have a policy that if you are in a domestic partnership with the person and have been living with them for a minimum of a year you can actually add that person to your insurance if not married and it isn't just for same sex partnerships. They would obviously prefer if the other person has insurance through their own company that they use that insurance but the policies allowed for that. I thought this was pretty cool and was becoming common since both companies I have worked/work at have this in their policy and so does my boyfriend's.

stefuhknee · March 2015

Thanks @phira you brought up a lot of important points for me to really consider. I really appreciated that break down and thanks @swazzle, I don't think that never getting married is something that I'd be ok with.

I really appreciate all of the great advice. I feel armed with lots of information and perspective so I'm ready to have this conversation. Thank you ladies.

phira · March 2015

It's really, really stressful to have to consider something that might be a relationship ending dealbreaker, especially when you have a child with the person you're with, so I'm sorry that you have to think about such a difficult decision

stefuhknee · March 2015

@phira It is very stressful but I'm optimistic that he will hear and understand my position and that we'll come to a resolution. I might just show him this thread, thanks again for the support.

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