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Wedding Etiquette Forum

Groom's Family Backed Out of Budget

So I have a little dilemma here.  My FH and I will be having our wedding in July 2015 (4 months to go!) and will have an Indian ceremony and luncheon in the morning and an interfaith ceremony, CTH and reception in the evening all in one day.  

Originally my FH's family and my family had very kindly offered to help in the wedding and had given us a budget of what they would be able to provide.  With this budget in mind as well as our own budget, we put together a total budget and started planning the wedding.  We let our parents know of our plans and involved them in whichever way we can (his mom for selecting flowers, my mom for our Indian ceremony).  We got guest lists from both families and compiled our own, picked and booked venodrs and are able to afford the wedding we wanted.  Recently however, my FSIL said that she and her mom (my FMIL) felt that because most of the guest were on my side of the family, that they shouldn't have to pay anything.  

This is true that there is a greater presence on my side however about 30% of the wedding guests are their family.  This is out of a 300+ person wedding with a minimum of 275.  It also looks like most of their guests would come to the wedding.  The original budget they gave me would have just covered their guests, but now they are backing out of that.  They also felt that a rehearsal dinner is unnecessary because our families have already met and therefore will not make arrangements for a rehearsal dinner.

My FH is pretty furious at his family right now for 1) backing out 2) talking to me about it instead of him and 3) his stepmother suggesting that we also invite her son, DIL and granddaughter because they haven't seen them in a while (this answer is already "No").  I'm pretty miffed about this too but am trying to make the best of the situation and my mom is not happy about it.  My family suggested that they'll cover the rest of the cost but I really don't want them too because they have given so much already that I don't think it would be fair.

No invitations have been sent out yet (we are sending them out beginning of May) but Save the Dates already went out (not to everyone).  My FH suggested cutting some people on his family's end anyway but I feel like that would leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth for years to come.  So it's coming down to us taking a loan from FH's 401k to cover the rest of the cost we need.

Would it be bad to take the portion of friends and family from his family's list who did not receive Save the Dates?  I'm confused, angry, sad and stressed all at the same time.  Thanks.
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Re: Groom's Family Backed Out of Budget

  • You really can't count on money until it's in your hand. 

    Right now you need to see what you can do to cut costs. Take a look at stuff where you can trim like flowers, decorations, favors. 

    And if there are people who didn't receive a STD that you feel like you can cut, that's your perogotive. 
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  • This is why it is always recommended to not bank on 'promised money' until you have it in hand. 

    Thankfully you haven't sent out invitations yet so you have some ways of scaling back to the wedding that YOU can afford, not by borrowing money. It is never recommended to take a loan or go into debt over a wedding. 

    Scale back the guest list and see if there are any other corners you can cut in order to get it within your budget.
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  • edited March 2015
    So I have a little dilemma here.  My FH and I will be having our wedding in July 2015 (4 months to go!) and will have an Indian ceremony and luncheon in the morning and an interfaith ceremony, CTH and reception in the evening all in one day.  

    Originally my FH's family and my family had very kindly offered to help in the wedding and had given us a budget of what they would be able to provide.  With this budget in mind as well as our own budget, we put together a total budget and started planning the wedding.  We let our parents know of our plans and involved them in whichever way we can (his mom for selecting flowers, my mom for our Indian ceremony).  We got guest lists from both families and compiled our own, picked and booked venodrs and are able to afford the wedding we wanted.  Recently however, my FSIL said that she and her mom (my FMIL) felt that because most of the guest were on my side of the family, that they shouldn't have to pay anything.  

    This is true that there is a greater presence on my side however about 30% of the wedding guests are their family.  This is out of a 300+ person wedding with a minimum of 275.  It also looks like most of their guests would come to the wedding.  The original budget they gave me would have just covered their guests, but now they are backing out of that.  They also felt that a rehearsal dinner is unnecessary because our families have already met and therefore will not make arrangements for a rehearsal dinner.

    My FH is pretty furious at his family right now for 1) backing out 2) talking to me about it instead of him and 3) his stepmother suggesting that we also invite her son, DIL and granddaughter because they haven't seen them in a while (this answer is already "No").  I'm pretty miffed about this too but am trying to make the best of the situation and my mom is not happy about it.  My family suggested that they'll cover the rest of the cost but I really don't want them too because they have given so much already that I don't think it would be fair.

    No invitations have been sent out yet (we are sending them out beginning of May) but Save the Dates already went out (not to everyone).  My FH suggested cutting some people on his family's end anyway but I feel like that would leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth for years to come.  So it's coming down to us taking a loan from FH's 401k to cover the rest of the cost we need.

    Would it be bad to take the portion of friends and family from his family's list who did not receive Save the Dates?  I'm confused, angry, sad and stressed all at the same time.  Thanks.
    They are allowed to change their mind on the contribution, it may hurt, but it's their money.
    Don't take money out of your 401K for one day of your life. Starting a marriage in debt bc of the wedding is not a wise choice.

    Cut back - cut favors, limited bar (only beer and wine), cut flowers and centerpieces, cut the guest list if you can - from both sides. Everyone who received a STD, MUST be invited. 

    Don't rely on either set of parents. Until you have the money in hand it can always go away. It's your wedding, host what you can afford. As long as you properly host your guests they won't miss the expensive extras.

    If you have a rehearsal, you must host the wedding party and anyone you require to come to the rehearsal with food. It can be simple - pizza and pop - or you can cancel the rehearsal. Only those required to be at the rehearsal and their SOs need to be invited tot he rehearsal dinner.
    :kiss: ~xoxo~ :kiss:

  • I'm sorry you're in this situation. It sucks that someone offered a contribution and then rescinded the offer. It seems weird and petty that they took it back based on the fact that more guests are from your side than theirs. But no one is required to pay for any part of someone else's wedding, and they're definitely not obligated in any way to host a rehearsal dinner for you. 

    If you need to cut the guest list in order to save costs, I think you should cut from both sides (and of course only cut people who did not receive a save the date, but seems like you already know that). Only cutting the list from his side because his family took back their money seems really spiteful and petty. They are not required to pay for guests from their side, so why would only their side get cut? 

    There are probably also other ways you can reduce a lot of expenses. Switch the bar to just beer and wine instead of a full bar if that's something you were going to do, skip favors, skip printed programs and menus, etc. 

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  • Wow, that sucks. But it also is, unfortunately, not uncommon for family to not give money that was promised. I know it is too late and this is not helpful to you, but for lurkers, for the one-millionth time, do not plan your wedding with money you do not yet have in your bank account, including and perhaps especially money from family. 

    Is it possible his family is upset about any other aspect of the process or planning? Ask your FI to talk to your FMIL. He needs to calm down and not be mad, just find out if there is anything that has happened that has made them unhappy. You cannot force people to fund your wedding and you should not rely on their money though. 

    This is what I would do: 
    1. Cut the guest list as much as possible. I would cut from both sides of the family. I would cut anyone who hasn't gotten a save the date, including your own family. 
    2. Cut any extras that you can. Downgrade things like flowers, eliminate favors, figure out if there is a way to limit the bar, if you're having alcohol, like for example only serve beer and wine. Do whatever you can to limit the expenses. Can you maybe only do one of the ceremonies? Like, combine the legal ceremony and the Indian ceremony? Just some thoughts. 
    3. If the above does not bring the wedding down to a level you can afford with the money you have, consider accepting a gift from your parents of the money. If they have offered to do this they probably do want to help. Just do not do further planning with money you don't have. 
    4. Please, please do not have your FI take out a loan from his 401k. There are penalties that will apply as well as income tax. It will suck and be hard to pay back. Are there ways the two of you can save some extra before the wedding? Cut down on dining out, etc? That would be better than taking out a loan from his retirement. 
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  • Thanks for the advice everyone.  FH and I can make it work.  It's just that both of us are a little shocked at his family's stance.

    What's funny is that I just received an email from my FSIL saying that she doesn't appreciate me talking to her brother about the concerns she and FMIL have and that I'm unnecessarily stressing him out.  She said that his family didn't realize the wedding was going to be so "lavish" and "grand" (really it's not) and that she nor FBIL had such big weddings.  I get that, but her husband's family lives abroad and they decided to go to justice of the peace and my FBIL's wedding was small because they wanted it at a more expensive venue and so only really invited his wife's side of the family.

    I can't tell what the concern is, so I'm hoping they'll be a little more candid with my FH.  I don't agree with her that I shouldn't be talking to my FH about what she is saying to me.  Also, I don't really care about having a rehearsal dinner but it was more that they just flat out said "no rehearsal dinner"

    As far as cutting people from my family, my parents have already allocated budget to accommodate everyone from my side and will be footing the bill for the entire Indian ceremony so I will respect their wishes and go through FH and my guestlist and his family's guest list to see where we can make cuts.  My parents are still offering to help out with some more but we are not going to take it just yet, unless we really need to.  My FH feels strongly about this.

    I feel like my blood pressure is slowly rising....



  • Whatever you do, please do NOT let your FI take money from his 401K. Aside from the tax penalties, consider that this wedding is ONE DAY. The money from the 401K is there for when you retire. Don't make a decision that could have a significant impact on your future just for a single day of your life.
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  • Is your FI telling his sister about conversations between the two of you? That needs to stop NOW. I would just respond to her with "I'm sorry you feel that way. We're looking forward to celebrating with you in July."
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  • I feel like your FSIL is going to be a problem in your life for a while if she's allowed to insert herself into your life and tell you not to talk to your own husband.   WTF?  

      
  • edited March 2015
    The only thing my FI said to HIS MOM is that I talked to him about the conversation that his FSIL and I had which involved her telling me about this situation.  If my FSIL heard anything, it's from FMIL.

    Not that this is our preference, but a 401k loan is not taking a disbursement.  Taking a disbursement means you don't intend on paying it back (this has a penalty if you do this before retirement age).  You can borrow against the funds your 401k and pay it back (with small interest) directly from your paycheck, which is the plan if we need to do it.  There are no penalties for it and the interest you pay goes back into your account.  It means you get less in your paycheck until you pay the loan back.  He has done this before to pay off his student loans a few years ago.  However, our plan is to downsize a bit and keep saving (between the two of us, we get paid every week) and if we absolutely have to, we'll take my parents on the offer, only at the end.

  • Thanks for the advice everyone.  FH and I can make it work.  It's just that both of us are a little shocked at his family's stance.


    What's funny is that I just received an email from my FSIL saying that she doesn't appreciate me talking to her brother about the concerns she and FMIL have and that I'm unnecessarily stressing him out.  She said that his family didn't realize the wedding was going to be so "lavish" and "grand" (really it's not) and that she nor FBIL had such big weddings.  I get that, but her husband's family lives abroad and they decided to go to justice of the peace and my FBIL's wedding was small because they wanted it at a more expensive venue and so only really invited his wife's side of the family.

    I can't tell what the concern is, so I'm hoping they'll be a little more candid with my FH.  I don't agree with her that I shouldn't be talking to my FH about what she is saying to me.  Also, I don't really care about having a rehearsal dinner but it was more that they just flat out said "no rehearsal dinner"

    As far as cutting people from my family, my parents have already allocated budget to accommodate everyone from my side and will be footing the bill for the entire Indian ceremony so I will respect their wishes and go through FH and my guestlist and his family's guest list to see where we can make cuts.  My parents are still offering to help out with some more but we are not going to take it just yet, unless we really need to.  My FH feels strongly about this.

    I feel like my blood pressure is slowly rising....



    Um, a 300+ person wedding absolutely is grand.  That's frigging huge.

    Your FSIL needs to butt out of your wedding planning and your FI needs to tell her that.  The planning is between you and your FI, and both sets of parents as originally they offered financial help.  Is your FSIL going to insert herself into your relationship after you are married?

    If you are having a ceremony rehearsal, then you need to host a rehearsal dinner and include everyone who was part of the ceremony rehearsal and their SO's.  The rehearsal dinner is not meant to be a pre-reception or family reunion, so you don't need to invite anyone other than those actually participating in your ceremony and their SO's.

    Besides cutting the guestlist, have  you considered PP's advice of cutting back on flowers, decor, favors, etc?

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • The only thing my FI said to HIS MOM is that I talked to him about the conversation that his FSIL and I had which involved her telling me about this situation.  If my FSIL heard anything, it's from FMIL.


    Not that this is our preference, but a 401k loan is not taking a disbursement.  Taking a disbursement means you don't intend on paying it back (this has a penalty if you do this before retirement age).  You can borrow against the funds your 401k and pay it back (with small interest) directly from your paycheck, which is the plan if we need to do it.  There are no penalties for it and the interest you pay goes back into your account.  It means you get less in your paycheck.  He has done this before to pay off his student loans a few years ago.  However, our plan is to downsize a bit and keep saving (between the two of us, we get paid every week) and if we absolutely have to, we'll take my parents on the offer, only at the end.
    1) Your FI needs to stop talking to his mom and about things you may or may not have said in your conversations with other people. Obviously there's a lot of gossip and twisted words that happen as a result.

    2) I would absolutely not pay for a wedding with anything except cash. If you have to do any borrowing, it means your planning outside your means. You haven't sent invitations yet, so just cut back your guest list.
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  • The only thing my FI said to HIS MOM is that I talked to him about the conversation that his FSIL and I had which involved her telling me about this situation.  If my FSIL heard anything, it's from FMIL.


    Not that this is our preference, but a 401k loan is not taking a disbursement.  Taking a disbursement means you don't intend on paying it back (this has a penalty if you do this before retirement age).  You can borrow against the funds your 401k and pay it back (with small interest) directly from your paycheck, which is the plan if we need to do it.  There are no penalties for it and the interest you pay goes back into your account.  It means you get less in your paycheck.  He has done this before to pay off his student loans a few years ago.  However, our plan is to downsize a bit and keep saving (between the two of us, we get paid every week) and if we absolutely have to, we'll take my parents on the offer, only at the end.
    It sounds like your FSIL needs to mind her own business. That conversation should have happened between your FI and his parents. From now on, don't engage her in wedding talk. Just let your FI handle it. 

    I think planning to cut back and save as much as you can is a good choice. It's nice that your parents are offering to help more though.
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  • lyndausvilyndausvi mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its
    edited March 2015
    Cut the list if you can.   I know it's going to be hard with a 300+ invite list and a minimum of 275.  I'm not sure how much over 300 the list. Nor do I know how many people didn't get the STD.  

      Cutting 25+ people will help, but with that high of a minimum it might not make a huge impact. Of course, that depends on the pp price and if you have to pay for tables, chairs and CP. Well do what you can.       On that note if you have to pay for extra chairs, tables, etc then inviting less than the minimum can save you funds in the long run.   Sure you still have to pay for the food, but you will save on the extras.

    Definitely back out of the extras.  Do not upgrade linens, do menu cards, minimal CPs.  If it's not too late pick less expensive invites.   By all means cut transportation and favors. Cut the bar back (if you are having one).


    ETA - oh and by all means avoid taking out a loan from your 401K.   I would rather see you take up your parents offer by making it a loan.   Sign papers and everything.    That would be a much better use of your money if you end up having to borrow money.   

    Sucks to have to be in debt, but sadly that might happen when contracts are already signed and you have such high minimums.   Good Luck






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
  • Invites are already printed.  I got them printed from India when I was there over the Summer for wedding shopping and brought them back with me.  That saved me a ton on them.  As far as dinner is concerned, we're doing buffet style, so no menus and no upgrading linens.  Flowers are already in contract, but we gave them our minimum.  Tables, chairs, linens, bar etc. are all included at our venue in the pp price so we are just going to cut the guest list and see where that leaves us.  All other vendors are in contract already, as they should be at this point.

    I emailed my FSIL back and said "I appreciate that you are coming to me with your concerns.  I'll take it into consideration for the rest of the planning.  Thanks".  I told FI that I would rather that he and his family talk it out and that I don't want to be in the middle of him and FSIL, FMIL.
  • My husband and I went into our marriage with my massive student loan debt. No way in hell would we have taken any kind of loan, from a 401k or anything else, to pay for the wedding.

    Cut the guest list if you can. Cut the flowers, any upgrades, etc. 

    It's really not worth it.
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    Anniversary
  • I told my florist around $4k.  In the end we cut that to $2800 after we decided not to something.   You might be able to go back to them and redo the contract since it's so far out.  It's not like they have the flowers already.   

    Now that I think about it, I had to confirm 2-3 weeks out what our final costs would be.   That is when she bought the flowers.






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
  • MagicInk said:

    Wait, I might have missed something, but at any point did your FILs actually say "we're not contributing to the wedding"? Or is FSIL just a big shit stirrer. Cause it kind of sounds like the latter to me.


    Maybe FMIL made a comment like "Oh Concrete's wedding is very lavish" and FSIL ran with it and said "Oh they're pulling the money" because it sounds like she wants drama where the may or may not be drama.
    yeah it sounds like FSIL is jealous mommy and daddy are giving them "more" than she got and decided to start shit stirring.






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
  • My FI just texted me and said that his mom thought about cutting back to make it fair to all of their children.  He reminded her that they never really got an opportunity to invite as many people as they are now because FSIL got married at Justice of the Peace and FBIL's wife's family controlled the guest list and only invited his immediate family and grandparents.  He said that it seems like FSIL was mainly having an issue because she wanted to invite some of her friends and FI didn't allow it.  So I guess this is where everything is stemming from.  FI is going to work it out with his parents and he said he is not going to involve his sister in these discussions.

    Good. I agree with PP, she sounds like a total shit stirrer. I would keep her far away from wedding plans and definitely keep her out of discussions and decision-making. What a drama llama. 
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  • My FI just texted me and said that his mom thought about cutting back to make it fair to all of their children.  He reminded her that they never really got an opportunity to invite as many people as they are now because FSIL got married at Justice of the Peace and FBIL's wife's family controlled the guest list and only invited his immediate family and grandparents.  He said that it seems like FSIL was mainly having an issue because she wanted to invite some of her friends and FI didn't allow it.  So I guess this is where everything is stemming from.  FI is going to work it out with his parents and he said he is not going to involve his sister in these discussions.

    It seems like a lot of families have a person who likes to tally up who gets what to make their sibling doesn't get more then them. 

    Sorry you are going through this.     

       






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
  • If your FSIL ever tries to pull a "don't tell my brother" type thing again.  You should simply say, "FI and I share everything, so if you don't want him to know something, don't tell me."

    I did this to one of FH's buddies once.  FH confessed to me that they went to a strip club during a camping weekend, and that he wasn't supposed to tell me because his buddy's wife wasn't allowed to know.  I told 'Buddy' next time I saw him that while I don't have a problem lying to his wife for him, he's not allowed to ask FH to lie to ME.  I don't give a shit about strip clubs and FH knows this which is why he "confessed".
  • If you absolutely have to borrow - still do not do it from the 401K. What if your FH wants to get a new job? He will not be able to, or he'll need to pay back the entire loan on the spot. Since your parents have offered, could you borrow from them and pay them back instead? Parents usually offer better interest rates than 401Ks and banks.

    Hope everything works out.
  • If your FSIL ever tries to pull a "don't tell my brother" type thing again.  You should simply say, "FI and I share everything, so if you don't want him to know something, don't tell me."

    If they were going to pull the money, how on earth did they think your fiance wouldn't find out about that anyhow?! He was bound to figure it out

    I agree. pot stirrer SIL
  • Sounds like FSIL is stirring shit because she doesn't think it's fair. And it does not sound like FMIL has necessarily said herself that they are not contributing now, correct? I'm going to go out on a limb and say FSIL took it upon herself to tell you something that may not be true, and she told you not to tell FI because she knew she was overstepping.

    Definitely have your FI handle this with his mom, and try to keep your distance from FSIL when it comes to anything wedding-related.
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  • SP29SP29 member
    Sixth Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    edited March 2015
    Sorry you have to deal with this, sounds like FSIL is jealous and stirring the pot.

    But this is why everyone tells newbies- don't count on money until it's in your hand.

    If you haven't sent STDs and you AND FI want to cut some guests, that is fine- it's your decision.

    I would cut over borrowing money. Seriously- it's one day. I know sometimes you get trapped with contracts, but try to do your best to cut and see what you can negotiate. If your parents have the money, I'd take up their offer over taking out of the 401K, even if you pay your parents back afterwards. 

    You absolutely should tell your FI everything your FSIL said- he's going to be your HUSBAND, this is a "life" matter, honestly what did she expect? FI definitely needs to deal with his parents on this and not involve his sister. It's none of her business anyway.

    Good luck with the rest ;)
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