Whaaaaaat is going on here?

KatWAG · May 2015

lachattefatale said:
Fair enough if people abuse the reporting system, but the initial thread or two I saw on the TOS change didn't really suggest that was the case.

You might want to take some time and get an overall sense of the community here; instead of judging it by one (highly sarcastic) thread.

PrettyGirlLost · May 2015

themosthappy91 said:
I guess I should chime in on how I feel about all this, since I'm the one who started the thread...

1. I think that if it's a choice between the current level of snarkiness/bitchiness/meanness (whatever you want to call it) and becoming a community like WeddingWire, I'll take what we have. But I DO wish there was an in between... I just don't think there's much of a realistic way to accomplish that (through rules) without creating a slippery slope.

Anyway, I'll admit it, I'm glad Ashely is gone. That one change actually does make me more likely to stay involved in this community, because no one else was on her level. She's the only person on here I would actually consider mean, though she's certainly not the only person who I've had arguments with. She was just the only one who constantly found something bitchy to say about every single thread, the only person who went out of her way to try to continue to argue with me over DM, the only one who seemed to constantly dish out attitude (both well-founded and not) but completely unable to take any criticism of anything she said, even when she was clearly making an ass out of herself (I'm refering to the "Cupcake" thread that she repeatedly tried to derail by going off on people calling themselves fat because it "wasn't funny"... even after they made it clear they weren't trying to be funny...).

So yeah. I DO understand why people are acting like The Wicked Witch is dead because honestly, without her it does feel like a happier place to be. At least to me.

Excuse me, but I'm clearly still freaking here.

KatWAG · May 2015

Get your report button ready:

How do all the special snowflakes function in real life? If people get their panties in a wad over being told that an idea is rude or tacky, what do you do when your boss tells you that your idea is bad?

Do you go crying to HR that your boss is bullying you? I am genuinely curious.

redoryx · May 2015

KatWAG said:
Get your report button ready:

How do all the special snowflakes function in real life? If people get their panties in a wad over being told that an idea is rude or tacky, what do you do when your boss tells you that your idea is bad?

Do you crying to HR that your boss is bullying you? I am genuinely curious.

Well, HR won't give me the million dollar raise I so clearly deserve because I'm so speshul so clearly they are bullying me.

TrixieJess · May 2015

KatWAG said:
Get your report button ready:

How do all the special snowflakes function in real life? If people get their panties in a wad over being told that an idea is rude or tacky, what do you do when your boss tells you that your idea is bad?

Do you crying to HR that your boss is bullying you? I am genuinely curious.

Yes, yes they do. Then we drink. It's why I carry a flask and make sure that I work near a liquor store.

Some of my favourite excuses for not getting to work on time: my phone didn't charge (it's my alarm); my bf/gf/h/w didn't wake me up; or my favourite, my mom didn't wake me up. I've also heard, I slept late so I just figured I wouldn't show up. I didn't have any coffee, so I couldn't get to work. Yes, this is what happens when Speshul Snowflakes go to work!

Glad I'm not currently working in HR!

jenna8984 · May 2015

PrettyGirlLost said:

jenna8984 said:

Fran1985 said:
This is wonderful news! I see the new changes are working already. It is so lovely that we are all willing to admit our mistakes now- I remember in the past when you complained about minorities (but who doesn't) living in your neighborhood and it was pointed out that it was offensive you did not apologize right away. The new TOS is already working! I knew you would all love them- it will be much easier now that we can get rid of silly gooses and keep all the non silly special gooses instead, I think the threads will be much better now that we can all just say agree to disagree and not challenge each other. Wouldn't it be better to just relax and know that everything you've ever thought is true, and your opinion is always the best? I for one love the new knot.

Mimosas & Down Feathers,
Mrs. Frances.

jenna8984 said:
jenna8984 said:
Because I'm not going to apologize for something I didn't do or mean. I clearly didn't intend it in an "offensive" context so I don't agree with having to apologize or redact what I said.
If I had said "oh this invitation is so gay" or something like that which IS in the wrong then I'd absolutely apologize and not get defensive.
ETA: I would of course never complain but these boxes are a bit quirky aren't they?

this is exactly the shit I'm talking about. I never once COMPLAINED about minorities living in my town. I stated a fact that they lived there. That was all. Apparently you're not allowed to say the word Puerto Rican without everyone being like "omg you're so racist". So yea obviously I'm going to defend myself when what I said was not fucking racist. Anyone is going to defend themselves when their words get thrown around and they are called something they are not. But you decide to hate for my the rest of my existence because of this one thread in which you twisted in your mind to make me racist.

And I know that no one else on this board has left or been banned. I'm not an idiot.

I read that thread. It was about you thinking about moving, and you stated that your town has a bad rep because minorities live there, so other people hear where you live and say, "Ugh, ghetto," which you don't like. Plus the schools are bad.

You never should have mentioned the minorities giving your town a bad rep. THAT'S what comes across as racist. All you should have said was that your town has a bad rep and that the schools are bad, so you are thinking of leaving because you want to have kids.

Boxboxbox
I agree with you. I said numerous times in that thread that I worded poorly and didn't mean it like that and made mistakes in my presentation. Yet certain people ignored those posts and continued to be like "nope-racist". That makes me feel like shit that being inarticulate painted me as a person that I am not. So I find it very hurtful and inappropriate for Fran to bring up false connotations a year later.

[Deleted User] · May 2015

esstee33 · May 2015

(I love this so much I'm going to make it my sig.)

afox007 · May 2015

themosthappy91 said:
I guess I should chime in on how I feel about all this, since I'm the one who started the thread...

1. I think that if it's a choice between the current level of snarkiness/bitchiness/meanness (whatever you want to call it) and becoming a community like WeddingWire, I'll take what we have. But I DO wish there was an in between... I just don't think there's much of a realistic way to accomplish that (through rules) without creating a slippery slope.

Anyway, I'll admit it, I'm glad Ashely is gone. That one change actually does make me more likely to stay involved in this community, because no one else was on her level. She's the only person on here I would actually consider mean, though she's certainly not the only person who I've had arguments with. She was just the only one who constantly found something bitchy to say about every single thread, the only person who went out of her way to try to continue to argue with me over DM, the only one who seemed to constantly dish out attitude (both well-founded and not) but completely unable to take any criticism of anything she said, even when she was clearly making an ass out of herself (I'm refering to the "Cupcake" thread that she repeatedly tried to derail by going off on people calling themselves fat because it "wasn't funny"... even after they made it clear they weren't trying to be funny...).

So yeah. I DO understand why people are acting like The Wicked Witch is dead because honestly, without her it does feel like a happier place to be. At least to me.

esstee33 · May 2015

***Removed for TOS violation***

sophhabobopha · May 2015

These are my basic feelings.

Fran1985 · May 2015

jenna8984 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

jenna8984 said:

Fran1985 said:
This is wonderful news! I see the new changes are working already. It is so lovely that we are all willing to admit our mistakes now- I remember in the past when you complained about minorities (but who doesn't) living in your neighborhood and it was pointed out that it was offensive you did not apologize right away. The new TOS is already working! I knew you would all love them- it will be much easier now that we can get rid of silly gooses and keep all the non silly special gooses instead, I think the threads will be much better now that we can all just say agree to disagree and not challenge each other. Wouldn't it be better to just relax and know that everything you've ever thought is true, and your opinion is always the best? I for one love the new knot.

Mimosas & Down Feathers,
Mrs. Frances.

jenna8984 said:
jenna8984 said:
Because I'm not going to apologize for something I didn't do or mean. I clearly didn't intend it in an "offensive" context so I don't agree with having to apologize or redact what I said.
If I had said "oh this invitation is so gay" or something like that which IS in the wrong then I'd absolutely apologize and not get defensive.
ETA: I would of course never complain but these boxes are a bit quirky aren't they?
this is exactly the shit I'm talking about. I never once COMPLAINED about minorities living in my town. I stated a fact that they lived there. That was all. Apparently you're not allowed to say the word Puerto Rican without everyone being like "omg you're so racist". So yea obviously I'm going to defend myself when what I said was not fucking racist. Anyone is going to defend themselves when their words get thrown around and they are called something they are not. But you decide to hate for my the rest of my existence because of this one thread in which you twisted in your mind to make me racist.

And I know that no one else on this board has left or been banned. I'm not an idiot.

I read that thread. It was about you thinking about moving, and you stated that your town has a bad rep because minorities live there, so other people hear where you live and say, "Ugh, ghetto," which you don't like. Plus the schools are bad.

You never should have mentioned the minorities giving your town a bad rep. THAT'S what comes across as racist. All you should have said was that your town has a bad rep and that the schools are bad, so you are thinking of leaving because you want to have kids.

Boxboxbox
I agree with you. I said numerous times in that thread that I worded poorly and didn't mean it like that and made mistakes in my presentation. Yet certain people ignored those posts and continued to be like "nope-racist". That makes me feel like shit that being inarticulate painted me as a person that I am not. So I find it very hurtful and inappropriate for Fran to bring up false connotations a year later.

My deepest apologies! I certainly did not mean to cause offense- and I had no idea that you had said numerous times in the thread that you worded it poorly and didn't mean it like that! I would have certainly accepted that apology, I must've gotten into the sauvignon blanc early that afternoon (I have appropriately tsked myself for it, believe you me!) I felt so bad about that I just went back and read the thread, and would you believe you didn't apologize or say you made a mistake once! Unfortunately there has been some sort of error, probably caused by shewhoshallnotbenamed to be honest. If you would like to copy and paste it here I promise to read it once again, I cannot believe I missed it the first time! Anyway I certainly did not mean to hurt you (sincerely) and I am glad we are all moving on. Somehow, despite all these complaints, shewhoshallnotbenamed had thousands and thousands of love its and I always thought that was unfair that she had more than me. (I realize that sounds negative and not positive, but I believe the new TOS says we can be negative to banned people as long as we are always always positive to our fellow wives and brides) Hopefully now we can be more equitable and everyone will get equal love its.

Cavier & Thouroughbreds,

Mrs. Frances

AlexisA01 · May 2015

Fran1985 said:

jenna8984 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

jenna8984 said:

Fran1985 said:
This is wonderful news! I see the new changes are working already. It is so lovely that we are all willing to admit our mistakes now- I remember in the past when you complained about minorities (but who doesn't) living in your neighborhood and it was pointed out that it was offensive you did not apologize right away. The new TOS is already working! I knew you would all love them- it will be much easier now that we can get rid of silly gooses and keep all the non silly special gooses instead, I think the threads will be much better now that we can all just say agree to disagree and not challenge each other. Wouldn't it be better to just relax and know that everything you've ever thought is true, and your opinion is always the best? I for one love the new knot.

Mimosas & Down Feathers,
Mrs. Frances.

jenna8984 said:
jenna8984 said:
Because I'm not going to apologize for something I didn't do or mean. I clearly didn't intend it in an "offensive" context so I don't agree with having to apologize or redact what I said.
If I had said "oh this invitation is so gay" or something like that which IS in the wrong then I'd absolutely apologize and not get defensive.
ETA: I would of course never complain but these boxes are a bit quirky aren't they?
this is exactly the shit I'm talking about. I never once COMPLAINED about minorities living in my town. I stated a fact that they lived there. That was all. Apparently you're not allowed to say the word Puerto Rican without everyone being like "omg you're so racist". So yea obviously I'm going to defend myself when what I said was not fucking racist. Anyone is going to defend themselves when their words get thrown around and they are called something they are not. But you decide to hate for my the rest of my existence because of this one thread in which you twisted in your mind to make me racist.

And I know that no one else on this board has left or been banned. I'm not an idiot.
I read that thread. It was about you thinking about moving, and you stated that your town has a bad rep because minorities live there, so other people hear where you live and say, "Ugh, ghetto," which you don't like. Plus the schools are bad.

You never should have mentioned the minorities giving your town a bad rep. THAT'S what comes across as racist. All you should have said was that your town has a bad rep and that the schools are bad, so you are thinking of leaving because you want to have kids.

Boxboxbox
I agree with you. I said numerous times in that thread that I worded poorly and didn't mean it like that and made mistakes in my presentation. Yet certain people ignored those posts and continued to be like "nope-racist". That makes me feel like shit that being inarticulate painted me as a person that I am not. So I find it very hurtful and inappropriate for Fran to bring up false connotations a year later.

My deepest apologies! I certainly did not mean to cause offense- and I had no idea that you had said numerous times in the thread that you worded it poorly and didn't mean it like that! I would have certainly accepted that apology, I must've gotten into the sauvignon blanc early that afternoon (I have appropriately tsked myself for it, believe you me!) I felt so bad about that I just went back and read the thread, and would you believe you didn't apologize or say you made a mistake once! Unfortunately there has been some sort of error, probably caused by shewhoshallnotbenamed to be honest. If you would like to copy and paste it here I promise to read it once again, I cannot believe I missed it the first time! Anyway I certainly did not mean to hurt you (sincerely) and I am glad we are all moving on. Somehow, despite all these complaints, shewhoshallnotbenamed had thousands and thousands of love its and I always thought that was unfair that she had more than me. (I realize that sounds negative and not positive, but I believe the new TOS says we can be negative to banned people as long as we are always always positive to our fellow wives and brides) Hopefully now we can be more equitable and everyone will get equal love its.

Cavier & Thouroughbreds,

Mrs. Frances

Now I want some Sauv Blanc....do you have anymore?

kkitkat79 · May 2015

ohannabelle said:
The problem with a "more politeness" poli

ohannabelle said:
Okay so follow-up questions (and I appreciate y'alls responses so far):

1. First the practical question- based on something Lynda said I think I misunderstood the initial incident that caused all this kerfuffle. Have the TOS changed recently or not? What exactly set Ashley off and caused her to get banned?

2. The bigger question: putting aside issues of how much power of censorship administrators should or should not have, do YOU think this community would benefit from being more polite? And I don't mean benefit in the financial sense (as in, XO's ability to profit off the forums), but benefit in terms of your increased enjoyment of being here. Basically, would you be happier if the community where somewhat less snarky?
2: On which given day? There are polite days, and snarky days. Do I ever feel like someone goes too far? Sure. There's an undefinable line that can be crossed between sarcasm and meanness, between snark and shittiness, and where that line is will be different for each person.
Somebody blew a gasket the other day because a poster suggested eloping. It wasn't rude at all, to my perception, or unkindly suggested, but to some dainty little snowflake, it was RUDE.
Polite is a very gray area, based on individual perception, and it would be impossible to define a standard of "polite" social interaction that pleased everyone.

If anyone feels that we need a kinder gentler Knot, nothing wrong with that. Be that kind and gentle person, and brava. Be you, if you're kind. I like nice people.

But I also really like smartasses. And I like humor. And I enjoy the honest and sharp responses that reflect the genuine reactions of the people here. My humor might not be yours. Someone might say I'm rude, because there's no accounting for perception, and there are people who take themselves verrrrrry seriously, and my natural inclination is to poke a pin in that inflated kind of ego.
So if this place became all sunshine and rainbows, I'd miss the comedy. Is humor rude? Is blunt rude? Is blatant honesty rude?

Because if all of those things went away, I would definitely enjoy my reading time less. It would suck. I'd be sad. The community would gradually yawn itself to death.

If "polite" is a grey area then so is etiquette and I don't think many would agree with that. Isn't it generally accepted that etiquette is exactly what you said is impossible to define - a standard of polite social interaction? There is more to etiquette than just wedding etiquette.

Nope. Etiquette is a clear set of standard rules, and casual and open conversation is pretty much impossible to impose structured rules on. Polite interaction is much more of a personal judgement call. What's acceptable conversation between close friends, or casual friends, or family, or at church, or at a bar, or on a message board, are all different things. There is no etiquette rule that could account for the myriad of personalities, reactions, and potential situations.

If somebody is actually suggesting that everyone use formal social conversational etiquette on the boards, then you'd be correct. And yes, there are rules. But let's not be silly. That would be awful. It would dictate that we not ever speak if anything personal, or even vaguely controversial. No sex, no politics, no personal remarks, only the lightest jokes, never discuss your personal dislikes, no topics that could possibly offend anyone..... I guess we could discuss the weather, or puppies. And I doubt for a second that was being suggested.

Rules for what?

PrettyGirlLost said:

Polite on a forum where you are reading words on a page and can't actually use tge tone if the responders voice or their facial expressions as cues to interpret the *actual* tone of the post, is a grey area.

All you can do is assume the tone, and many, many times the reader assumes a tone that is incorrect and more negative and harsh than what the author was actually intending. A lot of people read shit into posts that just isn't there, then get all defensive and huffy. And I'm not just talking about newbs.

True enough, but often there are responses like "is this real life?" or "this must be MUD" where not a ton of assuming needs to happen to interpret the tone. The excuse of "we answered this question a million times" is lame. If you are too annoyed to actually provide a helpful answer (however snarky it might be) just ignore the question. And "is this real life" is definitely not helpful.

FiancB · May 2015

themosthappy91 said:
I guess I should chime in on how I feel about all this, since I'm the one who started the thread...

1. I think that if it's a choice between the current level of snarkiness/bitchiness/meanness (whatever you want to call it) and becoming a community like WeddingWire, I'll take what we have. But I DO wish there was an in between... I just don't think there's much of a realistic way to accomplish that (through rules) without creating a slippery slope.

Anyway, I'll admit it, I'm glad Ashely is gone. That one change actually does make me more likely to stay involved in this community, because no one else was on her level. She's the only person on here I would actually consider mean, though she's certainly not the only person who I've had arguments with. She was just the only one who constantly found something bitchy to say about every single thread, the only person who went out of her way to try to continue to argue with me over DM, the only one who seemed to constantly dish out attitude (both well-founded and not) but completely unable to take any criticism of anything she said, even when she was clearly making an ass out of herself (I'm refering to the "Cupcake" thread that she repeatedly tried to derail by going off on people calling themselves fat because it "wasn't funny"... even after they made it clear they weren't trying to be funny...).

So yeah. I DO understand why people are acting like The Wicked Witch is dead because honestly, without her it does feel like a happier place to be. At least to me.

False, false, false, aaand false.

I'm really curious as to what it is that people were so gosh darn afraid of posting about, because I can't think of a single thing. 'Cause, you know, I try not to post ignorant bullshit, and apologize and get the fuck over myself if I do. You know, if the wicked witch were so wicked, she could've attacked me for flaunting my privilege because I mentioned having horses or something. But that didn't happen.

Also

JennyColada · May 2015

FiancB said:

/dead

climbingsingle · May 2015

FiancB said:

I guess I should chime in on how I feel about all this, since I'm the one who started the thread...

1. I think that if it's a choice between the current level of snarkiness/bitchiness/meanness (whatever you want to call it) and becoming a community like WeddingWire, I'll take what we have. But I DO wish there was an in between... I just don't think there's much of a realistic way to accomplish that (through rules) without creating a slippery slope.

Anyway, I'll admit it, I'm glad Ashely is gone. That one change actually does make me more likely to stay involved in this community, because no one else was on her level. She's the only person on here I would actually consider mean, though she's certainly not the only person who I've had arguments with. She was just the only one who constantly found something bitchy to say about every single thread, the only person who went out of her way to try to continue to argue with me over DM, the only one who seemed to constantly dish out attitude (both well-founded and not) but completely unable to take any criticism of anything she said, even when she was clearly making an ass out of herself (I'm refering to the "Cupcake" thread that she repeatedly tried to derail by going off on people calling themselves fat because it "wasn't funny"... even after they made it clear they weren't trying to be funny...).

So yeah. I DO understand why people are acting like The Wicked Witch is dead because honestly, without her it does feel like a happier place to be. At least to me.

False, false, false, aaand false.

I'm really curious as to what it is that people were so gosh darn afraid of posting about, because I can't think of a single thing. 'Cause, you know, I try not to post ignorant bullshit, and apologize and get the fuck over myself if I do. You know, if the wicked witch were so wicked, she could've attacked me for flaunting my privilege because I mentioned having horses or something. But that didn't happen.

Also

**************************************************************************************

Boxes are all fucked up. But I have to say, ONE FUCKING PERSON IS GONE. If you think Ashley was behind all of the snarkiness, I'll have to disagree, because I'm still here. You were so scared of one person that you didn't want to post? Do you even realize how ridiculous that sounds? Yes, Ashley called people out on their BS when she saw fit. But she also offered great advice and was very kind to many people. To say she always posted snark is just factually NOT TRUE.

larrygaga · May 2015

I would just like to say that ashley has always been very kind to me, personally.

What scares me are the weird racists here. I am marrying a *gasp* minority. He is a better and more productive and contributing person than I will ever be, but he's the one getting double checked at the border because he is a large brownish man. Nobody ever thinks that maybe the cute little redhead is the one carrying the drugs!

I'm not a shitty little coward, so it doesn't scare me to post here even when many of the posts are actually horrible comments aimed at people like the one I'm going to marry.

I'm mad about this place because I'll get banned for swearing. Not because of the clear and very present racism that really should be against the TOS. Some bullshit rules.

If you want more evidence, go check out some of the white people problem threads on wedding woes. There's more racism.

Ashley is not a racist, and is not a mean girl. She speaks her mind, and unfortunately in this country that makes you a bitch. Part of being a strong woman is not letting what you perceive as snarky comments get the better of you.

arrippa · May 2015

larrygaga said:

I would just like to say that ashley has always been very kind to me, personally.

What scares me are the weird racists here. I am marrying a *gasp* minority. He is a better and more productive and contributing person than I will ever be, but he's the one getting double checked at the border because he is a large brownish man. Nobody ever thinks that maybe the cute little redhead is the one carrying the drugs!

I'm not a shitty little coward, so it doesn't scare me to post here even when many of the posts are actually horrible comments aimed at people like the one I'm going to marry.

I'm mad about this place because I'll get banned for swearing. Not because of the clear and very present racism that really should be against the TOS. Some bullshit rules.

If you want more evidence, go check out some of the white people problem threads on wedding woes. There's more racism.

Ashley is not a racist, and is not a mean girl. She speaks her mind, and unfortunately in this country that makes you a bitch. Part of being a strong woman is not letting what you perceive as snarky comments get the better of you.

Boxesboxesboxesboxes
I've stayed out of this because I have enough drama in life. I don't need any more here. But, I will agree with larrygaga. I will miss Ashley. I liked her and I thought she brought a lot of thought provoking posts. Also, if you were scared to post here, then maybe the internet is not for you

arrippa · May 2015

Also, since I couldn't add it to the post above (pretend I did)

KatieinBkln · May 2015

larrygaga said:

I would just like to say that ashley has always been very kind to me, personally.

What scares me are the weird racists here. I am marrying a *gasp* minority. He is a better and more productive and contributing person than I will ever be, but he's the one getting double checked at the border because he is a large brownish man. Nobody ever thinks that maybe the cute little redhead is the one carrying the drugs!

I'm not a shitty little coward, so it doesn't scare me to post here even when many of the posts are actually horrible comments aimed at people like the one I'm going to marry.

I'm mad about this place because I'll get banned for swearing. Not because of the clear and very present racism that really should be against the TOS. Some bullshit rules.

If you want more evidence, go check out some of the white people problem threads on wedding woes. There's more racism.

Ashley is not a racist, and is not a mean girl. She speaks her mind, and unfortunately in this country that makes you a bitch. Part of being a strong woman is not letting what you perceive as snarky comments get the better of you.

I

U.

PrettyGirlLost · May 2015

kkitkat79 said:

The problem with a "more politeness" poli
Okay so follow-up questions (and I appreciate y'alls responses so far):

1. First the practical question- based on something Lynda said I think I misunderstood the initial incident that caused all this kerfuffle. Have the TOS changed recently or not? What exactly set Ashley off and caused her to get banned?

2. The bigger question: putting aside issues of how much power of censorship administrators should or should not have, do YOU think this community would benefit from being more polite? And I don't mean benefit in the financial sense (as in, XO's ability to profit off the forums), but benefit in terms of your increased enjoyment of being here. Basically, would you be happier if the community where somewhat less snarky?
2: On which given day? There are polite days, and snarky days. Do I ever feel like someone goes too far? Sure. There's an undefinable line that can be crossed between sarcasm and meanness, between snark and shittiness, and where that line is will be different for each person.
Somebody blew a gasket the other day because a poster suggested eloping. It wasn't rude at all, to my perception, or unkindly suggested, but to some dainty little snowflake, it was RUDE.
Polite is a very gray area, based on individual perception, and it would be impossible to define a standard of "polite" social interaction that pleased everyone.

If anyone feels that we need a kinder gentler Knot, nothing wrong with that. Be that kind and gentle person, and brava. Be you, if you're kind. I like nice people.

But I also really like smartasses. And I like humor. And I enjoy the honest and sharp responses that reflect the genuine reactions of the people here. My humor might not be yours. Someone might say I'm rude, because there's no accounting for perception, and there are people who take themselves verrrrrry seriously, and my natural inclination is to poke a pin in that inflated kind of ego.
So if this place became all sunshine and rainbows, I'd miss the comedy. Is humor rude? Is blunt rude? Is blatant honesty rude?

Because if all of those things went away, I would definitely enjoy my reading time less. It would suck. I'd be sad. The community would gradually yawn itself to death.

If "polite" is a grey area then so is etiquette and I don't think many would agree with that. Isn't it generally accepted that etiquette is exactly what you said is impossible to define - a standard of polite social interaction? There is more to etiquette than just wedding etiquette.
Nope. Etiquette is a clear set of standard rules, and casual and open conversation is pretty much impossible to impose structured rules on. Polite interaction is much more of a personal judgement call. What's acceptable conversation between close friends, or casual friends, or family, or at church, or at a bar, or on a message board, are all different things. There is no etiquette rule that could account for the myriad of personalities, reactions, and potential situations.

If somebody is actually suggesting that everyone use formal social conversational etiquette on the boards, then you'd be correct. And yes, there are rules. But let's not be silly. That would be awful. It would dictate that we not ever speak if anything personal, or even vaguely controversial. No sex, no politics, no personal remarks, only the lightest jokes, never discuss your personal dislikes, no topics that could possibly offend anyone..... I guess we could discuss the weather, or puppies. And I doubt for a second that was being suggested.
Rules for what?

Polite on a forum where you are reading words on a page and can't actually use tge tone if the responders voice or their facial expressions as cues to interpret the *actual* tone of the post, is a grey area. All you can do is assume the tone, and many, many times the reader assumes a tone that is incorrect and more negative and harsh than what the author was actually intending. A lot of people read shit into posts that just isn't there, then get all defensive and huffy. And I'm not just talking about newbs.

True enough, but often there are responses like "is this real life?" or "this must be MUD" where not a ton of assuming needs to happen to interpret the tone. The excuse of "we answered this question a million times" is lame. If you are too annoyed to actually provide a helpful answer (however snarky it might be) just ignore the question. And "is this real life" is definitely not helpful.

Yeah, those posts are pretty clear.

Sometimes someone posts something so fucking stupid, or outrageous, or rude to guests, or inflammatory that it's just surreal. So I think those responses are reasonable. Especially when you've been trying to communicate with the poster and sense and logic are just not getting through to them.

This is a discussion forum, not a strict Q&A forum, especially not CC which isn't meant to be strictly wedding related. Not every response needs to answer a question or even be "helpful."

mikenberger · May 2015

So what if all the snark and meanness moved to the Snarky Brides board. Is that acceptable since that board comes with a disclaimer?

esstee33 · May 2015

***Removed for TOS violation***

PrettyGirlLost · May 2015

mikenberger said:

So what if all the snark and meanness moved to the Snarky Brides board. Is that acceptable since that board comes with a disclaimer?

Except I'm pretty sure that wouldn't prevent me from posting with snark elsewhere bc that's how I respond to things a lot of the time, period, and I don't really spend much time on SB.

People just have no clue how truly freaking nasty the interwebz actually is. This site is fucking child's play compared to the degenerates on 4chan, Reddit, and some of the more prominent gaming related forums. If you want to see true cyber bullying and "meanies", wander over to one of those sites. Read up on Gamergate.

I'm just trying to put things into perspective for some of you. I'm not advocating that TK become as vile as those other sites, nor am I aspiring to be like that or do I think anyone else that enjoys snark and off the cuff retorts here is trying to be a scumbag like those that inhabit those sites.

redoryx · May 2015

PrettyGirlLost said:

mikenberger said:

So what if all the snark and meanness moved to the Snarky Brides board. Is that acceptable since that board comes with a disclaimer?

Except I'm pretty sure that wouldn't prevent me from posting with snark elsewhere bc that's how I respond to things a lot of the time, period, and I don't really spend much time on SB.

People just have no clue how truly freaking nasty the interwebz actually is. This site is fucking child's play compared to the degenerates on 4chan, Reddit, and some of the more prominent gaming related forums. If you want to see true cyber bullying and "meanies", wander over to one of those sites. Read up on Gamergate.

I'm just trying to put things into perspective for some of you. I'm not advocating that TK become as vile as those other sites, nor am I aspiring to be like that or do I think anyone else that enjoys snark and off the cuff retorts here is trying to be a scumbag like those that inhabit those sites.

QFT

mikenberger · May 2015

esstee33 said:

mikenberger said:

So what if all the snark and meanness moved to the Snarky Brides board. Is that acceptable since that board comes with a disclaimer?

************

And how do you propose that gets policed? People who consider themselves snarky can only post on that board? That's not fair, and also no fun since that board is boring as hell.

Or is it that the more delicate posters celebrating Ashley being gone because she's soooooo mean are going to determine who should go post over there? What happens when someone posting in CC gets more snarky than you think they should? Do you get to vote them off the CC island?

Is everyone in CC going to enable and be extra nice to ridiculous SS posters? No?

I mean, TBH, you've been extremely snarky in many of your posts, so where is the line drawn?

WHERE IN THE FUCK ARE ALL THE BOXES? ON A LONG WEEKEND?

Whoa. My comment was an innocent question. I'll do whatever I please, thanks. This place is not my be all end all. I'd like to think just as much as I'm a total bitch, I'm also pretty fucking helpful as well.

I'm just as bummed out as the others at the loss of Ashley and the recent change in the TOS sails around here. Would her posts come off as abrasive at points? Sure. Happens to everybody. We're reading text. We're not all friends IRL. You don't know what my inflection is just like I don't know what yours (general you) and your intention is. But if some people would take time to read between the lines and not get caught up in semantics, there's tons of helpful people in here.

And yes. That boards is BEYOND fucking boring. Think I saw a skeleton sitting in the corner.

esstee33 · May 2015

***Removed for TOS violation***

novella1186 · May 2015

arrippa said:

larrygaga said:

I would just like to say that ashley has always been very kind to me, personally.

What scares me are the weird racists here. I am marrying a *gasp* minority. He is a better and more productive and contributing person than I will ever be, but he's the one getting double checked at the border because he is a large brownish man. Nobody ever thinks that maybe the cute little redhead is the one carrying the drugs!

I'm not a shitty little coward, so it doesn't scare me to post here even when many of the posts are actually horrible comments aimed at people like the one I'm going to marry.

I'm mad about this place because I'll get banned for swearing. Not because of the clear and very present racism that really should be against the TOS. Some bullshit rules.

If you want more evidence, go check out some of the white people problem threads on wedding woes. There's more racism.

Ashley is not a racist, and is not a mean girl. She speaks her mind, and unfortunately in this country that makes you a bitch. Part of being a strong woman is not letting what you perceive as snarky comments get the better of you.

Boxesboxesboxesboxes
I've stayed out of this because I have enough drama in life. I don't need any more here. But, I will agree with larrygaga. I will miss Ashley. I liked her and I thought she brought a lot of thought provoking posts. Also, if you were scared to post here, then maybe the internet is not for you

WTF Boxes??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

So, I haven't been on since Friday afternoon. I'm just now catching up on this. (WTF?!)

I also have to say I'll miss Ashley (since a lot of people have bashed her and said things I don't agree with, I'll throw in my opinion too). She was super nice to me, and the few times she called me out on something she didn't agree with, I didn't feel "attacked" or "bullied." I saw it as an outspoken person letting me know her opinion, which is why I like these boards. Because people are honest and say what they really think.

I'm kind of shocked to see the attitude of "let's get rid of the Mean Girls. This place has gotten way too Mean Girls" but at the same time, so many people are smack-talking Ashley the minute she's gone. (I felt like that Wicked Witch reference was a bit much. Just saying). Isn't it total Mean Girls behavior to bash people totally behind their back? If you had a problem with her, why not say something while she was still here? Like a simple and honest, "Hey I think that particular comment was too mean-spirited" or something like that.

IRL, like in high school when I was around real Mean Girls, I was always far more hurt by people saying shitty stuff about me behind my back than I was when someone was honest to my face.

mikenberger · May 2015

esstee33 said:

mikenberger said:

esstee33 said:

mikenberger said:

So what if all the snark and meanness moved to the Snarky Brides board. Is that acceptable since that board comes with a disclaimer?

************

And how do you propose that gets policed? People who consider themselves snarky can only post on that board? That's not fair, and also no fun since that board is boring as hell.

Or is it that the more delicate posters celebrating Ashley being gone because she's soooooo mean are going to determine who should go post over there? What happens when someone posting in CC gets more snarky than you think they should? Do you get to vote them off the CC island?

Is everyone in CC going to enable and be extra nice to ridiculous SS posters? No?

I mean, TBH, you've been extremely snarky in many of your posts, so where is the line drawn?

WHERE IN THE FUCK ARE ALL THE BOXES? ON A LONG WEEKEND?

Whoa. My comment was an innocent question. I'll do whatever I please, thanks. This place is not my be all end all. I'd like to think just as much as I'm a total bitch, I'm also pretty fucking helpful as well.

I'm just as bummed out as the others at the loss of Ashley and the recent change in the TOS sails around here. Would her posts come off as abrasive at points? Sure. Happens to everybody. We're reading text. We're not all friends IRL. You don't know what my inflection is just like I don't know what yours (general you) and your intention is. But if some people would take time to read between the lines and not get caught up in semantics, there's tons of helpful people in here.

And yes. That boards is BEYOND fucking boring. Think I saw a skeleton sitting in the corner.

*************

And that's exactly my point -- I wasn't attacking you in my post, just asking how you actually thought that would work, but you clearly interpreted it differently. Regarding the bolded -- what exactly did I even say that has your hair so raised? I'm genuinely confused about what in my post was SO offensive to you personally, seeing as I was talking to a general "you."

Pretend that there is a box here.

lol What I bolded is what I was referring to. I took your "you" and me.

SEE WHAT I MEAN, PEOPLE?! It's all text speak.

Whaaaaaat is going on here?

Re: Whaaaaaat is going on here?

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