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ETF: Caitlyn (formerly) Bruce Jenner on VF

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Re: ETF: Caitlyn (formerly) Bruce Jenner on VF

  • redoryx said:
    Of course, the Tudor geek in me is also reminded of Henry VIII's 4th wife Anne of Cleves. He had been given a portrait of her and decided to marry her based on that then when she showed up said Oh Hell To The No at seeing her in person. 
    I thought they legit got married and then got it annulled? Who knows, though. I can't keep all of his wives (beheaded or not) straight. If you're right, it makes a way better story. 
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  • I thought they legit got married and then got it annulled? Who knows, though. I can't keep all of his wives (beheaded or not) straight. If you're right, it makes a way better story. 
    Oh they did -- but it was a very rocky relationship and neither really liked each other that much. She was more than happy to have the marriage annulled when he offered it and of all the wives she probably ended up with the happiest ending per se.
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  • redoryx said:
    Oh they did -- but it was a very rocky relationship and neither really liked each other that much. She was more than happy to have the marriage annulled when he offered it and of all the wives she probably ended up with the happiest ending per se.
    Ah, ok. Not only does the dude sound absolutely miserable, but given his history of axing (literally) some wives, I'm not sure I would have agreed in the first place if I were her. Although if she would have denied him, he'd probably axe/burn her anyway. 
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  • Ah, ok. Not only does the dude sound absolutely miserable, but given his history of axing (literally) some wives, I'm not sure I would have agreed in the first place if I were her. Although if she would have denied him, he'd probably axe/burn her anyway. 
    It was a political/religious move, like most marriages of the day were. He needed allies. Also, women of noble birth didn't exactly get a choice in the matter of marriage, especially if Henry VIII was the one you were marrying. 

    Their marriage was short but she was well compensated after. 

    (And now I have officially hijacked this thread LOL)
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  • As a photog I have a love/ hate relationship with Photoshop. I LOVE using it is correct any and all environmental issues - lighting, shadows, distracting objects, stains on clothing, even swapping out open eyes for closed ones in a large group shot when it's the only option. I appreciate using it for "best version of you" stuff - getting rid of zits (they come and go), evening out makeup - especially lipstick, cleaning up stray hair.

    However, I'm not happy about being asked to "de-wrinkle" or slim people. I recently had to photoshop a portrait for my office in with the woman, twice my age, ended up looking younger than I. I was told to take out all her under eye wrinkles, clean the neck, laugh lines, even the skin tone and white the teeth. I'm ok if you want me to whiten your teeth, I don't mind evening out skin tone  - but all your wrinkles? We should be proud of laugh lines. Own it. Personally, I have never had a man request I remove his wrinkles. If you don't want wrinkles, take better care of your skin or go for a permanent fix. This photog prefers taking photos of people who actually look like the person. That's why I don't do fashion photography, never have, never had any desire.

    That said -  I don't believe Caitlyn asked to be photoshopped. I think VF photoshops every single thing they run in their magazine. So I'm not going to say I wish this or that about an issue. I just wish the industry as a whole didn't photoshop every single little thing - but that wish only becomes a reality when society changes their view and puts their money where their mouth is on the subject.

    I'm glad Caitlyn is making positive headlines. I don't care if it includes a photo or what the story is about as long as it is a well written, positive one. We need more positive stories that break down barriers and lighten folks. We desperately need to NEVER read another headline stating that someone has been bullied, harassed or God forbid - killed - bc of their gender or sexual preference. That's my real hope.
    To the bolded, I'm curious about your rationale for this.  I personally don't see how using retinol or getting plastic surgery to reduce/remove wrinkles is any better than asking a photographer, whom you are paying for their services, to use digital editing tools to remove those same wrinkles?

    Not everyone wants to retain their wrinkles or look as old as they are.  Hell, I've seen 20 year olds that look far older than I am at 34, and have far worse skin already because of over tanning and bad dye jobs.  Eventually they may want to actually look their age, and not 10-15 years older.

    I personally don't have a problem with people choosing to look how they want to look, and utilizing skin care products, plastic surgery, spanx, Photoshop, whatever to achieve that look.  Their bodies, their rights, right?  The body positive image movement is missing the point if we are going to start judging and shaming people for wanting to look how they want to look, whether that's younger, thinner, or just as they are.

    To the highlighted- you can swap out ppl's eyes to fix group shots?!  That's cool!!!  I have Photoshop, but I only dabble in it.  I'm always amazed at what the pro's can actually do with it since they actually know how to use it, lol.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • I've reported you both for trolling- you intentionally derailed/hijacked this thread and inserted some history into it.  HOW DARE YOU BOTH!
    Anne Boleyn's reaction

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  • haha, I was coming in here to post that!
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  • To the bolded, I'm curious about your rationale for this.  I personally don't see how using retinol or getting plastic surgery to reduce/remove wrinkles is any better than asking a photographer, whom you are paying for their services, to use digital editing tools to remove those same wrinkles?

    Not everyone wants to retain their wrinkles or look as old as they are.  Hell, I've seen 20 year olds that look far older than I am at 34, and have far worse skin already because of over tanning and bad dye jobs.  Eventually they may want to actually look their age, and not 10-15 years older.

    I personally don't have a problem with people choosing to look how they want to look, and utilizing skin care products, plastic surgery, spanx, Photoshop, whatever to achieve that look.  Their bodies, their rights, right?  The body positive image movement is missing the point if we are going to start judging and shaming people for wanting to look how they want to look, whether that's younger, thinner, or just as they are.

    To the highlighted- you can swap out ppl's eyes to fix group shots?!  That's cool!!!  I have Photoshop, but I only dabble in it.  I'm always amazed at what the pro's can actually do with it since they actually know how to use it, lol.
    IMHO, if you (general) do things to change how you look every day than that's on you. You want to dye your hair, wear makeup, get plastic surgery, botox, go for it. As a photog I prefer to photog I prefer to photog people how they look in real life - actually told that to 3 of my coworkers yesterday when taking headshot. If you don't like something about yourself I think it is on you to change it, not ask a photog to do it for you - but that's just me. I can see the beauty in flaws. I work primarily with older adults and we focus on positive aging and age just being a number, so photoshopping out wrinkles goes against our messaging in most cases. 

    I'm not paid to take personal photos, I'm more of a photojournalist or corporate photog, so I'm not paid by a client to make them look how they want to look. If I was in fashion or for hire, I would probably feel different. I did a lot of newspaper work, where photoshopping out the truth gets you in trouble.

    It's just my personal style and opinion. 

    Yep, I can photoshop swap eyes, assuming I have good ones to work with. The biggest issue is the angel of the face. I can scale down larger eyes, but it comes down to perspective if they look right or not.
    :kiss: ~xoxo~ :kiss:

  • sarahufl said:
    haha, I was coming in here to post that!
    Me three!
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    This baby knows exactly how I feel
  • IMHO, if you (general) do things to change how you look every day than that's on you. You want to dye your hair, wear makeup, get plastic surgery, botox, go for it. As a photog I prefer to photog I prefer to photog people how they look in real life - actually told that to 3 of my coworkers yesterday when taking headshot. If you don't like something about yourself I think it is on you to change it, not ask a photog to do it for you - but that's just me. I can see the beauty in flaws. I work primarily with older adults and we focus on positive aging and age just being a number, so photoshopping out wrinkles goes against our messaging in most cases. 

    I'm not paid to take personal photos, I'm more of a photojournalist or corporate photog, so I'm not paid by a client to make them look how they want to look. If I was in fashion or for hire, I would probably feel different. I did a lot of newspaper work, where photoshopping out the truth gets you in trouble.

    It's just my personal style and opinion. 

    Yep, I can photoshop swap eyes, assuming I have good ones to work with. The biggest issue is the angel of the face. I can scale down larger eyes, but it comes down to perspective if they look right or not.
    So my BM's made a damn mess while getting ready and just threw all their shit everywhere. . .can you photoshop that out for me?

    Also, I want you to make me a mermaid.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • I just have one question about the transition . . . I thought that was a long process. How was Caitlyn able to do it so quickly? Isn't that dangerous for the body? Or is it just a long process due to costs?

     

    P.S. I know next to nothing about sex transitions so I could be talking out of my butt with this one.

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  • IMHO, if you (general) do things to change how you look every day than that's on you. You want to dye your hair, wear makeup, get plastic surgery, botox, go for it. As a photog I prefer to photog I prefer to photog people how they look in real life - actually told that to 3 of my coworkers yesterday when taking headshot. If you don't like something about yourself I think it is on you to change it, not ask a photog to do it for you - but that's just me. I can see the beauty in flaws. I work primarily with older adults and we focus on positive aging and age just being a number, so photoshopping out wrinkles goes against our messaging in most cases. 

    I'm not paid to take personal photos, I'm more of a photojournalist or corporate photog, so I'm not paid by a client to make them look how they want to look. If I was in fashion or for hire, I would probably feel different. I did a lot of newspaper work, where photoshopping out the truth gets you in trouble.

    It's just my personal style and opinion. 

    Yep, I can photoshop swap eyes, assuming I have good ones to work with. The biggest issue is the angel of the face. I can scale down larger eyes, but it comes down to perspective if they look right or not.



    So my BM's made a damn mess while getting ready and just threw all their shit everywhere. . .can you photoshop that out for me?

    Also, I want you to make me a mermaid.


    Possibly. And yes. Mermaid would be pretty easy. :wink:

    I just have one question about the transition . . . I thought that was a long process. How was Caitlyn able to do it so quickly? Isn't that dangerous for the body? Or is it just a long process due to costs?

     

    P.S. I know next to nothing about sex transitions so I could be talking out of my butt with this one.

    Caitlyn did not have the full transformation surgery. She did not physically change her sex. My understanding is that she isn't planning on surgically changing her sex. (i hope I worded that correctly, trying my best to be correct and inclusive)
    :kiss: ~xoxo~ :kiss:

  • I just have one question about the transition . . . I thought that was a long process. How was Caitlyn able to do it so quickly? Isn't that dangerous for the body? Or is it just a long process due to costs?

     

    P.S. I know next to nothing about sex transitions so I could be talking out of my butt with this one.

    I don't think she had all the surgeries that she could have, and I know she did start a few things way before, like hormones, facial surgery etc. She may have not actually had any additional surguries, just different clothing and some fab make up can change a lot. Has she said that she has had any?
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  • justsie said:

    I don't think she had all the surgeries that she could have, and I know she did start a few things way before, like hormones, facial surgery etc. She may have not actually had any additional surguries, just different clothing and some fab make up can change a lot. Has she said that she has had any?

    I actually do not know. I haven't really read much about Caitlyn's process. So that is my ignorance showing because I assumed she went through the entire process.
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  • @ChemFanatic25 Transitioning encompesses many different things. Hormone therapy, facial surgeries, and gender reassignment surgery are just small parts that some trans people do some of. Not all have surgeries, hormone therapy is fairly common but even then it's not right for everyone.

    At this point Caitlyn is living her life as a woman. Regardless of what is in her underwear, or filling out her shirts, she is a woman. And that's really all that matters.

    There is no wrong way for a trans person to live as a trans person. They are not more or less based on what surgeries they do or do not have. Just like wearing flannel doesn't make me more of a lesbian. Though I mean flannel is fucking awesome. All people should wear it.
  • ChemFanatic25ChemFanatic25 member
    500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 500 Comments Name Dropper
    edited June 2015
    @ChemFanatic25 Transitioning encompesses many different things. Hormone therapy, facial surgeries, and gender reassignment surgery are just small parts that some trans people do some of. Not all have surgeries, hormone therapy is fairly common but even then it's not right for everyone. At this point Caitlyn is living her life as a woman. Regardless of what is in her underwear, or filling out her shirts, she is a woman. And that's really all that matters. There is no wrong way for a trans person to live as a trans person. They are not more or less based on what surgeries they do or do not have. Just like wearing flannel doesn't make me more of a lesbian. Though I mean flannel is fucking awesome. All people should wear it.

    I was just more curious about the process and if she had gone through the entire surgical and hormonal process because it seemed to happen so quickly. I wasn't saying that she was less of a woman because she didn't go through the process. I think someone else made the comment about the clothing.

     

    Edit: Now I know why it happened so quickly. She didn't go through the entire process. That clears up my question. 

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  • I was just more curious about the process and if she had gone through the entire surgical and hormonal process because it seemed to happen so quickly. I wasn't saying that she was less of a woman because she didn't go through the process. I think someone else made the comment about the clothing.

     

    Edit: Now I know why it happened so quickly. She didn't go through the entire process. That clears up my question. 

    But there is no "entire process". That's like saying there's only one way to be a trans person or to identify as being female. And everyone has to follow the same steps to get there.

    What you're saying is that she has not had reassignment surgery on her genitals. Which might be true. But that's not because she's missing a step in some kind of "process". This might be her entire process. She might be all done. And that doesn't mean she didn't go through the "entire process" cause this isn't building an Ikea bookcase. There are not steps you must complete to call yourself done.
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