NWR: Treat all children equally - or the same?

CMGragain · July 2015

How would you feel if in your parents' wills, you were treated differently than another sibling?

We have inherited a large amount of money and stocks in the past two years. We are seeing a lawyer to draw up our wills.
My daughter could use a windfall of cash to buy a larger home in a better school district. She and her husband have shown that they are very responsible with money, and we would give the lump sum on our deaths.
My son is severely ADD. He is not married. He coped with his disability by auto-payments on everything. He makes a six figure income and owns his own home, but he does not currently have anyone significant in his life. His job depends on his maintaining a government security clearance.
We would like to set up a trust for him, giving him annual payments of about $10,000 until he is in his late 50's, at which point he can have anything that is left. The idea is to supplement his income, so that if his circumstances change, he wouldn't be dependent on his sister. He is impulsive with money.
How would you feel? Would you be hurt that you are being treated differently? The amount of inheritance would be the same, it would just be distributed differently. Please let me know your opinions.

ShesSoCold · July 2015

CMGragain said:

How would you feel if in your parents' wills, you were treated differently than another sibling?

We have inherited a large amount of money and stocks in the past two years. We are seeing a lawyer to draw up our wills.
My daughter could use a windfall of cash to buy a larger home in a better school district. She and her husband have shown that they are very responsible with money, and we would give the the lump sum on our deaths.
My son is severely ADD. He is not married. He coped with his disability by auto-payments on everything. He makes a six figure income and owns his own home, but he does not currently have anyone significant in his life. His job depends on his maintaining a government security clearance.
We would like to set up a trust for him, giving him annual payments of about $10,000 until he is in his late 50's, at which point he can have anything that is left. The idea is to supplement his income, so that if his circumstances change, he wouldn't be dependent on his sister. He is impulsive with money.
How would you feel? Would you be hurt that you are being treated differently? The amount of inheritance would be the same, it would just be distributed differently. Please let me know your opinions.

That would really grind my gears. Because he's single you want to control his money after you die? Not okay.

Edited because I assumed. And I don't want to be an ass.

HeatherKat · July 2015

Yeah, I'd be pretty fucking pissed if, as a grown ass adult making 6 figures and owning my own home my parents decided that I'm too damn irresponsible to manage my money while simultaneously giving my sister a big wind fall. Fuck that.

CMGragain · July 2015

No, because he has a disability that affects how he handles money - ADD! Do you guys know what that is?

ShesSoCold · July 2015

CMGragain said:

No, because he has a disability that affects how he handles money - ADD!

Based on everything else you've said about him, he's doing pretty well.

sarawifenow · July 2015

Yeah I would be pretty pissed off in this scenario.

OliveOilsMom · July 2015

Can you talk to him? Tell him that you want to set up a trust for him and see what he says? I do think the fact that he is single should have no merit to whether he gets the trust set up or not.

CMGragain · July 2015

ShesSoCold said:

CMGragain said:

No, because he has a disability that affects how he handles money - ADD!

Based on everything else you've said about him, he's doing pretty well.

Yes, he is now. We are worried about his future. It is very easy to make a stupid mistake and lose your security clearance. If he does, he will be almost unemployable in his field. We want to be sure he is taken care of.
My son is very aware of his disability. He is still under therapy and treatment, and he will be for the rest of his life.

HeatherKat · July 2015

So, he has a security clearance, makes a 6 figure salary and owns his own home, but in your head he still needs his mommy to manage his budget for him?

If I was him I'd tell you exactly where you can shove your trust fund.

CMGragain · July 2015

HeatherKat said:

So, he has a security clearance, makes a 6 figure salary and owns his own home, but in your head he still needs his mommy to manage his budget for him?

If I was him I'd tell you exactly where you can shove your trust fund.

My son would be the first one to say that he cannot manage a budget.

ShesSoCold · July 2015

CMGragain said:

ShesSoCold said:

CMGragain said:

No, because he has a disability that affects how he handles money - ADD!

Based on everything else you've said about him, he's doing pretty well.

Yes, he is now. We are worried about his future. It is very easy to make a stupid mistake and lose your security clearance. If he does, he will be almost unemployable in his field. We want to be sure he is taken care of.

I don't know anything about him other than what you've said, so I don't know his level of function or anything else. But I do know that he's a successful adult and I hope he'd like to be treated as such.

My mother has been dead less than a year and my brother has already blown his inheritance. Sure it wasn't smart, in my opinion, but it was his decision. My mom's decision to will him a portion of her estate allowed him to do as he saw fit and whether or not me, you, or my mom would have agreed with that doesn't matter.

ETA: Maybe, MAYBE if you detailed it out for both of them in your will - "DD must use her inheritance to purchase a new home" and "since DS has no immediate need for such funds, he shall receive X dollars per year for the next Y years" - then I could see that. But basically handing DD a lump sum and controlling DS's is shitty, IMO.

[Deleted User] · July 2015

Is it possible to speak to your son about what you want to do for him and why? Leave the sister out of the conversation. Ask him what he'd like- maybe he'll surprise you.

If not, it's your money and you can do what you want. But the reality is, if his situation changes he probably can't survive on $10K per year (assuming his income goes to nothing; otherwise $10K / yr. may make a small cushion). So while you'd be trying to do this to protect and provide for him, I don't think you'll accomplish that.

If his situation doesn't change, whether he burns through $80k (or whatever the sum us) all at once or over the course of 8 years is kind of the same outcome- he spent the money poorly every year or all at once...

CMGragain · July 2015

It looks like I am going to get a lot of responses on this. Thank you all! FWIW, we are talking about a seven figure inheritance.

NowIamMrsKlein · July 2015

I think that is pretty unfair. It would be different if one of your children was an adult and the other was a child, then a trust for the child would make more sense. However, I believe your grown children should be treated equally, and both as adults. If he blows through it right away then that is on him. Perhaps sit and chat with him before drawing up the will. Let him know that the will states he will get a lump sum amount and that you hope that he will take it to a financial adviser to discuss what to do with it. Then leave it alone.

Example:

When my grandparents got ill, they drew up their Wills that divided their estate equally between their 6 children. 1 child is extremely wealthy in their own right, 3 are middle class, 1 is struggling to get by and one of them lived on the streets. The estate was divided equally between these children. In your scenerio, the one living on the streets who has a mental illness would only have access to trust money each year, where the one living a grand life would get the lump sum. How it worked out: The one living on the streets took the lump sum, bought a cheap car, found a decent place to live, bought herself a new wardrobe and was able to get herself a job. All because of this lump sum. The one that was 'mentally stable' blew all the money in one go.

Treat everyone equally and as adults and let them choose for themselves how they wish to proceed with any inheritance.

redoryx · July 2015

I'm not sure what his relationship status has to do with absolutely anything related to this question. Even if he did have a girlfriend (or boyfriend) they could be equally horrible with managing money, so that wouldn't really solve anything.

Also, when you say "impulsive with money" what do you mean? I can be impulsive with money and can be bad with a budget, but I'd still be super pissed if my parents thought I needed to be financially babysat while my married sister got some huge check written free and clear. Fuck that noise.

He owns a home. He has a job with government security clearance. They don't just had those out so based on everything you've told us, I'd say he's actually doing okay.

photokitty · July 2015

Personally, I think it's you're money and you can do whatever you want. We always say - money has strings attached.

It's your money. An inheritance is not earned like a paycheck...it is a gift. It is not to be expected. If you want to set terms on how the money is paid out that is your right. If your child doesn't like the terms they can decline the gift.

Rarely are inheritance equal. Rarely are there not hurt feelings...even when it is equal.

It's your money, do what you want with it. I don't expect anything from my parents when they die. Id rather they enjoy their money when they are here. I get really annoyed with people who feel like they are owed an inheritance. I see to many seniors barely scraping by bc they feel like they have to leave their kids something. You should never feel obligated to care for capable adults after you are gone.

JMHO

Eta I hate mobile knotting

jacques27 · July 2015

CMGragain said:

HeatherKat said:

So, he has a security clearance, makes a 6 figure salary and owns his own home, but in your head he still needs his mommy to manage his budget for him?

If I was him I'd tell you exactly where you can shove your trust fund.

My son would be the first one to say that he cannot manage a budget.

But then, wouldn't he probably also be the first one to find a way to manage it? I mean, for cryin' out loud - ADD isn't an intellectual disability, he doesn't appear to be borderline intellectual functioning. It's a mental impairment that can be dealt with using a variety of mechanisms (medication, therapeutic techniques, coping mechanisms) and it appears he's doing some or all of these. Unless he's doing them under duress and you're forcing him to, that seems pretty damn responsible to me. Under some definitions, he wouldn't be considered to have a "disability", but rather an impairment. The Federal government wouldn't even consider him "disabled" (which for SSDI purposes is an impairment that has lasted or is expected for at least 12 months or result in death and prevents substantial gainful employment). He somehow managed to obtain enough education to get a six figure job, remain stable enough to get a high enough security clearance, buy a house, and figure out how to be responsible to pay his bills. This impairment clearly does not prevent the ability to engage in substantial gainful employment. Could he lose it? Sure, but plenty of people without ADD also do stupid shit to get themselves fired, like inappropriate use of work equipment, theft of time, sexual harassment, etc. And if he loses his clearance? Well, then he can find another field to work in - he managed to find a field to work in once, so he'll probably be able to do it again. Lots of people, even people with ADD, switch fields over the course of their lifetime.

Honestly, this isn't an equal or same question - because not everything has to be the same, but you're basically infantilizing your son who for all intents and purposes seems to managing himself just fine.

CMGragain · July 2015

BTW, this is not my idea. It is DH's. I am gathering arguments with your posts. Thank you all so much!

lyndausvi · July 2015

I would be pissed, but hey it's your money and you are dead. Not much I can do about the situation.

I would either do lump sums for both, or spread out payments for both. $10K a year is not really life changing. Sure its a nice bonus, but if he gets himself in trouble it's not going to help out much. If you want to spread them out for him, spread it out for both. Break it up by say 5 years. That way the chunk of money is a little more useful.

BTW - by the time you both drop dead you daughter might not 'need' the bigger house in the bigger neighborhood. My own grandmother died when I was 21 and I was the 19th of her 24 grandkids born. She didn't have my mom until her 40's.

You can add provisions that if you die when they are in their 30's it's split, but if they are in their 40's then they get the lump sum.

Viczaesar · July 2015

What does the fact that he's single have to do with anything?

CMGragain · July 2015

Viczaesar said:

What does the fact that he's single have to do with anything?

Nothing. Just describing their different living situations.

lyndausvi · July 2015

Viczaesar said:

What does the fact that he's single have to do with anything?

It's the same reason why your car insurance is generally cheaper if you are married and have kids. It's a sign of stability.

CMGragain · July 2015

Picture Dr. Sheldon Cooper.

lyndausvi · July 2015

CMGragain said:

Picture Dr. Sheldon Cooper.

Sheldon is very good with his money. He saves more than half of his money.

Yes, I watch too much TBBT

CMGragain · July 2015

My son pays a lot of what we all call "stupid tax". He forgot to register his car - stupid tax. He forgot what day it was and missed a final exam in college - stupid tax. He forgot that mixing alcohol, shellac and an open flame is dangerous and caused $90,000 damage to his house and burns on his hands and torso - very stupid tax. (At least he paid his homeowner's insurance!) He forget to do the paperwork for his insurance company to reimburse him on replacing his household furnishings - stupid tax. He has lost some of his prized possessions because he forgot them in a hotel - sad tax.
I think you get the idea. We all love him dearly. He is kind and empathetic.
His current project is building an iron forge in his back yard so that he can practice blacksmithing....um, oh boy.

AddieCake · July 2015

One thing to keep in mind. My grandparents cut their son out of their wills because he hadn't much been in their lives. Fine. He and my mom and her sisters fully expected that. My mom and her two younger sisters got X amount. My grandparents also were displeased with my mom's older sister's lesser involvement in their lives. She didn't measure up to my mom and the younger sisters in that department, and it was reflected in the will.

As a result, she stopped speaking to my mom and her 2 sisters entirely. I hadn't been in contactbwith her for years as a result, and when I called her to tell her my mother had passed away, that's all she wanted to talk about, how wronged she had been when my grandparents died. She treats her own daughter and granddaughter like shit when they have anything to do with her only remaining sister.

Obviously, this is extreme, but just a word of caution that sometimes this kind of thing has repercussions on people who didn't even have anything to do with the decision.

flbride2015 · July 2015

photokitty said:

Personally, I think it's you're money and you can do whatever you want. We always say - money has strings attached. It's your money. An inheritance is not earned like a paycheck...it is a gift. It is not to be expected. If you want to set terms on how the money is paid out that is your right. If your child doesn't like the terms they can decline the gift. Rarely are inheritance equal. Rarely are there not hurt feelings...even when it is equal. It's your money, do what you want with it. I don't expect anything from my parents when they die. Id rather they enjoy their money when they are here. I get really annoyed with people who feel like they are owed an inheritance. I see to many seniors barely scraping by bc they feel like they have to leave their kids something. You should never feel obligated to care for capable adults after you are gone. JMHO Eta I hate mobile knotting

This. I'm going to be the one with the UO here: treating people fairly is not always the same as treating them equally. If I have two kids and one is irresponsible and the other is responsible, I'm not going to punish the responsible one just to make things fair with the irresponsible one, be that by giving them both the same curfew or in this case, monthly allotments for the both of them. Plus, in your situation, it's your money, your rules/strings; it's a gift. If your son doesn't like the terms he can decline not to accept the gift.

That being said, actions have consequences. Treating them differently sends a message. The message your son will get is that you consider him irresponsible with money, and that is likely to cause hard feelings. Is that more important to you than ensuring he doesn't blow his inheritance? That's for you to decide.

Personally, I would talk to him about it and let him know why I've structured things the way I have. I would also let him know that it can be changed if you decide he's met your standard of "responsibleness." That doesn't mean he'll understand and be happy about it but it allows you to have a conversation about it, versus surprising him at the end. I would also maybe add in some exceptions there. You consider responsible purchasing or paying off a house? Add it as an exception for a lump sum withdrawal. College tuition? Exemption for lump sum. Whatever you deem to be worthy of being a responsible purchase.

flbride2015 · July 2015

CMGragain said:

My son pays a lot of what we all call "stupid tax". He forgot to register his car - stupid tax. He forgot what day it was and missed a final exam in college - stupid tax. He forgot that mixing alcohol, shellac and an open flame is dangerous and caused $90,000 damage to his house and burns on his hands and torso - very stupid tax. (At least he paid his homeowner's insurance!) He forget to do the paperwork for his insurance company to reimburse him on replacing his household furnishings - stupid tax. He has lost some of his prized possessions because he forgot them in a hotel - sad tax.
I think you get the idea. We all love him dearly. He is kind and empathetic.
His current project is building an iron forge in his back yard so that he can practice blacksmithing....um, oh boy.

------------------------------BOXES-----------------------------
To the bolded: I think this is cool, but whatever.

Also, I can be pretty flighty and all over the place. I routinely forget things and I pay a lot of stupid tax like your son. But I've got my life together for the most part. I have a great job, a home, a family, etc. Your son seems to be in a good place too. Maybe you should give him a little more credit.

Jen4948 · July 2015

I would be deeply resentful that you did this based on factors I had no control over.

jacques27 · July 2015

CMGragain said:

My son pays a lot of what we all call "stupid tax". He forgot to register his car - stupid tax. He forgot what day it was and missed a final exam in college - stupid tax. He forgot that mixing alcohol, shellac and an open flame is dangerous and caused $90,000 damage to his house and burns on his hands and torso - very stupid tax. (At least he paid his homeowner's insurance!) He forget to do the paperwork for his insurance company to reimburse him on replacing his household furnishings - stupid tax. He has lost some of his prized possessions because he forgot them in a hotel - sad tax.
I think you get the idea. We all love him dearly. He is kind and empathetic.
His current project is building an iron forge in his back yard so that he can practice blacksmithing....um, oh boy.

There are worse fates in life. He has hobbies that don't involve homemade meth labs (presumably) and somehow manages to still get his responsibilities taken care of, even if it does take him longer or cost him a little more. I promise you that people without ADD do stupid shit, too, as well as forget deadlines.

If he's not currently spending his six figure salary on hookers and blow, it seems pretty unlikely that having a lump sum payment is going to make him start. And giving him $10,000 instead of $1,000,000 lump sum isn't going to suddenly make him start paying attention to deadlines to register his car or take his final exam or not burn sections of his house down.

It really doesn't have to be the same to be fair - one sibling could get a lump sum while the other gets it dished out in 5 or 10 year increments. But given that he seems, by all accounts, to be a capable, fairly responsible person who seems to be self-aware and has figured out some great strategies for handling whatever limitations he may have (for example, an irresponsible person without self-awareness probably wouldn't be setting up auto-pay for their bills), then I personally would either make it the same or offer both children the option. Heck, maybe your daughter would prefer it be doled out in increments instead. Maybe if presented as the option of a lump sum or payouts every X years, your son might still pick incremental payments and decide that is what works out best for him. But it just seems unfair to make that decision for him in the manner you've presented it, since by and large a lot of the information you've presented as your husband's argument is essentially treating your son as an incapable child.

flbride2015 · July 2015

jacques27 said:

CMGragain said:

My son pays a lot of what we all call "stupid tax". He forgot to register his car - stupid tax. He forgot what day it was and missed a final exam in college - stupid tax. He forgot that mixing alcohol, shellac and an open flame is dangerous and caused $90,000 damage to his house and burns on his hands and torso - very stupid tax. (At least he paid his homeowner's insurance!) He forget to do the paperwork for his insurance company to reimburse him on replacing his household furnishings - stupid tax. He has lost some of his prized possessions because he forgot them in a hotel - sad tax.
I think you get the idea. We all love him dearly. He is kind and empathetic.
His current project is building an iron forge in his back yard so that he can practice blacksmithing....um, oh boy.

There are worse fates in life. He has hobbies that don't involve homemade meth labs (presumably) and somehow manages to still get his responsibilities taken care of, even if it does take him longer or cost him a little more. I promise you that people without ADD do stupid shit, too, as well as forget deadlines.

If he's not currently spending his six figure salary on hookers and blow, it seems pretty unlikely that having a lump sum payment is going to make him start. And giving him $10,000 instead of $1,000,000 lump sum isn't going to suddenly make him start paying attention to deadlines to register his car or take his final exam or not burn sections of his house down.

It really doesn't have to be the same to be fair - one sibling could get a lump sum while the other gets it dished out in 5 or 10 year increments. But given that he seems, by all accounts, to be a capable, fairly responsible person who seems to be self-aware and has figured out some great strategies for handling whatever limitations he may have (for example, an irresponsible person without self-awareness probably wouldn't be setting up auto-pay for their bills), then I personally would either make it the same or offer both children the option. Heck, maybe your daughter would prefer it be doled out in increments instead. Maybe if presented as the option of a lump sum or payouts every X years, your son might still pick incremental payments and decide that is what works out best for him. But it just seems unfair to make that decision for him in the manner you've presented it, since by and large a lot of the information you've presented as your husband's argument is essentially treating your son as an incapable child.

Speaking of the daughter prefering allotments, have you looked into the tax ramifications of this? Would a 10K a year allotment qualify as a "gift" for tax purposes, or does that only apply if the giver of the gift is alive?

NWR: Treat all children equally - or the same?

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