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NWR: Treat all children equally - or the same?

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Re: NWR: Treat all children equally - or the same?

  • Just give him the lump sum with the condition that he hires a financial planner to manage all his assets, since you won't be around to micromanage his life anymore.
  • esstee33 said:
    Just give him the lump sum with the condition that he hires a financial planner to manage all his assets, since you won't be around to micromanage his life anymore.
    It is pretty hard to micromanage someone's life from 2000 miles away.  He phones us about once a month, if he remembers.  I saw him at his Grandfather's funeral in March.  Yay!  He played taps during the veteran's flag ceremony on his trumpet.
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  • CMGragain said:
    esstee33 said:
    Just give him the lump sum with the condition that he hires a financial planner to manage all his assets, since you won't be around to micromanage his life anymore.
    It is pretty hard to micromanage someone's life from 2000 miles away.  He phones us about once a month, if he remembers.  I saw him at his Grandfather's funeral in March.  Yay!  He played taps during the veteran's flag ceremony on his trumpet.


    You are asking for advice for how to fucking micromanage his life from beyond the grave. Are you really so dim that you don't see that? 
  • jacques27 said:
    CMGragain said:
    My son pays a lot of what we all call "stupid tax".  He forgot to register his car - stupid tax.  He forgot what day it was and missed a final exam in college - stupid tax.  He forgot that mixing alcohol, shellac and an open flame is dangerous and caused $90,000 damage to his house and burns on his hands and torso - very stupid tax.  (At least he paid his homeowner's insurance!)  He forget to do the paperwork for his insurance company to reimburse him on replacing his household furnishings - stupid tax.  He has lost some of his prized possessions because he forgot them in a hotel - sad tax.
    I think you get the idea.  We all love him dearly.  He is kind and empathetic.
    His current project is building an iron forge in his back yard so that he can practice blacksmithing....um,  oh boy.

    There are worse fates in life.  He has hobbies that don't involve homemade meth labs (presumably) and somehow manages to still get his responsibilities taken care of, even if it does take him longer or cost him a little more.  I promise you that people without ADD do stupid shit, too, as well as forget deadlines. 

    If he's not currently spending his six figure salary on hookers and blow, it seems pretty unlikely that having a lump sum payment is going to make him start.  And giving him $10,000 instead of $1,000,000 lump sum isn't going to suddenly make him start paying attention to deadlines to register his car or take his final exam or not burn sections of his house down.

    It really doesn't have to be the same to be fair - one sibling could get a lump sum while the other gets it dished out in 5 or 10 year increments.  But given that he seems, by all accounts, to be a capable, fairly responsible person who seems to be self-aware and has figured out some great strategies for handling whatever limitations he may have (for example, an irresponsible person without self-awareness probably wouldn't be setting up auto-pay for their bills), then I personally would either make it the same or offer both children the option.  Heck, maybe your daughter would prefer it be doled out in increments instead.  Maybe if presented as the option of a lump sum or payouts every X years, your son might still pick incremental payments and decide that is what works out best for him.  But it just seems unfair to make that decision for him in the manner you've presented it, since by and large a lot of the information you've presented as your husband's argument is essentially treating your son as an incapable child.

    Speaking of the daughter prefering allotments, have you looked into the tax ramifications of this? Would a 10K a year allotment qualify as a "gift" for tax purposes, or does that only apply if the giver of the gift is alive?
    A trust eliminates tax issues.  The inheritance won't exceed the maximum when it is split between the two kids.  That is one of the things we do need a lawyer for!  Great question!  Thanks!
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  • CMGragain said:
    It looks like I am going to get a lot of responses on this.  Thank you all!  FWIW, we are talking about a seven figure inheritance.
    Game changer. 

    Disown your son and adopt me and my husband, please.  We'll even redo oour wedding since DH wore a tux before 6pm.

    In all seriousness, I don't really see why you'd need to set up his inheritance as an "allowance" so he doesn't blow it when he's currently functioning already, on his own, and can maintain a high level security clearance, a 6 figure salary, own a home and NOT need an allowance.
    This.  It makes no sense.  Who cares if he blows it all at once or not?  Because when the inheritance is gone, he still has his 6 figure job.  Which is alot more than many people have. 
  • CMGragainCMGragain member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited July 2015
    Thanks so much for all your responses!  Here is my concern.

    I stayed home and raised both my kids.  DH was around every evening, but I had far more input with the kids than he did.  I took him to the doctors, not DH.  I drove him to activities, not DH.  He confides in me, not DH.  DH and son have never gotten along well.  DH is a perfectionist, and has many fears about our son's future, which is why he is talking about setting up the trust.  They both respect each other, but it just isn't the same as the relationship son has with me.

    I am probably not going to be around for very long.  Cancer.  I have already made provision for a block of stock that is in my name will go directly to both kids.  No strings.
    After I am gone, I don't know what DH will do.  If he marries again, I hope he has the good sense to get a pre-nup, and to provide for wife #2 so that our kids receive a nice inheritance.  This has been a problem in his family, and hopefully will be resolved in the next three months.  Once our estate has transferred to DH, he can re-write a new will to whatever he pleases.  I won't be around to object. My contribution to our estate is about 30%.  We used some of my mother's legacy to pay off the house.  The rest is invested.

    I am not used to problems like this.  I had no idea that my late Mom had money stashed away, since she lied about everything most of her life.  I was a truck driver's daughter.  Now, with the death of FIL, DH receives the trust fund from his mother.  It was really supposed to be much larger, but FIL had Alzheimer's, and gave away a lot that wasn't supposed to be his to give.
    All of your advice and input is great!  I plan on talking to my son (without DH) and tell him our concerns.  I doubt if it will surprise him.  We won't be seeing the lawyer until October, so there is plenty of time to work out what is the best thing to do for our children.
    Thank you all, so much!


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  • If my parents didn't keep me informed about their decision I would be upset.  My parents came to my FI and I recently and asked if we would take custody of younger brother in the event something terrible happened.  They stated we would get x amount more from their estate to help raise him (we do not want money because we love him dearly but this is their wish).  Once we agreed the conversation shifted to please don't tell your sisters.  That is when we stated we would only accept this if they made their wishes clear with everyone.  This would only cause family problems if everyone was not made aware prior.

    It is your wish to decide where your money goes.   I personally don't like the strings attached (reminds me of the 1800s).  However, it is your choice to make.  I just HIGHLY recommend you make sure there is transparency so someone doesn't end up hurt and unable to talk to you about it.
  • I draft wills for a living.  We see people do things like that all the time. Or they'll say you have have $100,000 at 25, another $100,000 at 35, etc. That'll give your daughter enough to put a good chunk down on a nicer home in a better school district, and have your son technically $10,000.00 a year you wanted him to have. 
  • Way longer than what I should type on mobile...

    We actually saw something like this in my family. When my great aunt and uncle did financial planning around their inheritance from great uncles parents (8 figures, from what I understand) needed to decide how to divide money and distribute in a thoughtful way. 2 of their kids were already very successful at that time (entrepreneurs who already sold multiple companies) while the other two were still completely unable to handle their own finances. The money was divided equally among the 4 but the 2 with money problems had it out in a trust that gave annual distributions starting when they hit 60. Lots of bitchiness and anger but it was the right call as both cousins are dependent on that money now. When my great aunt and uncle were planning for their own assets, they ended up rolling theirs into the same trusts because it worked well.

    My great-aunt died years ago but when my great-uncle died 2 years ago, the distributions increases for my aunts. The aunt who received lump sums got another lump (my uncle died by then).

    DH and I have an appointment coming up with a lawyer to manage inheritances. When DH dies, we don't want all of his assets to go straight to The Kid because we know he won't be able to handle it. He'll get distributions over time, or by the decisions of an executor. (DH's assets will get split between kids if we have one. If we don't, mine will go to my niece).

    The Kid will hate us but, given that no one in DH's family or his ex's family can manage money, it seems like a good call. Plus, The Kid has problems suggesting that his money management skills will only get worse with money.

    My parents trust my sister and I with money but we'll get distributions - 4, I think. We're meeting with their lawyer next month but, as I understand it, the goal is protect assets in case of divorce and changes in local case law. I need more information but it's supposed to protect assets from lawsuits, etc.

    I'm on mobile but maybe I missed something- were you intending to give the money now? Or upon you/DH's passing? I'd never want my parents to give me any of their money until they pass--- even though they have plenty of money, I'd rather be certain that they can take care of themselves and enjoy retirement before I get anything. I know you're ill but you never know- and your DH could need some too. Give them what's left!

    Overall, I think it's ok to treat your kids differently as long as it is even.
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  • lyndausvi said:
    Personally, I think it's you're money and you can do whatever you want. We always say - money has strings attached. It's your money. An inheritance is not earned like a paycheck...it is a gift. It is not to be expected. If you want to set terms on how the money is paid out that is your right. If your child doesn't like the terms they can decline the gift. Rarely are inheritance equal. Rarely are there not hurt feelings...even when it is equal. It's your money, do what you want with it. I don't expect anything from my parents when they die. Id rather they enjoy their money when they are here. I get really annoyed with people who feel like they are owed an inheritance. I see to many seniors barely scraping by bc they feel like they have to leave their kids something. You should never feel obligated to care for capable adults after you are gone. JMHO Eta I hate mobile knotting


    This. I'm going to be the one with the UO here: treating people fairly is not always the same as treating them equally. If I have two kids and one is irresponsible and the other is responsible, I'm not going to punish the responsible one just to make things fair with the irresponsible one, be that by giving them both the same curfew or in this case, monthly allotments for the both of them. Plus, in your situation, it's your money, your rules/strings; it's a gift. If your son doesn't like the terms he can decline not to accept the gift.

    That being said, actions have consequences. Treating them differently sends a message. The message your son will get is that you consider him irresponsible with money, and that is likely to cause hard feelings. Is that more important to you than ensuring he doesn't blow his inheritance? That's for you to decide.

    Personally, I would talk to him about it and let him know why I've structured things the way I have. I would also let him know that it can be changed if you decide he's met your standard of "responsibleness." That doesn't mean he'll understand and be happy about it but it allows you to have a conversation about it, versus surprising him at the end. I would also maybe add in some exceptions there. You consider responsible purchasing or paying off a house? Add it as an exception for a lump sum withdrawal. College tuition? Exemption for lump sum. Whatever you deem to be worthy of being a responsible purchase.

    I agree with this. 

    BTW - even living, things are not always "fair".        

    For example, we are flying to NYC in Oct for my mom's b-day (surprise).  My dad is paying for my brother and his family (wife+2 kids)  to fly from AZ and their hotel.   He is paying for my other brother and his family (wife and 2 kids) hotel (they are within driving distance).

    My dad is not paying for me and DH's flights from CO or our hotel. Nor my sister and her family of 5 (driving distance) hotel either.

    While we are there he is picking up all of our broadway show tickets and the special dinner for my mom.

    My sister and myself can afford to visit mom in NYC.   Our brothers can not.   If dad didn't pick up the funds for our brothers we would never be altogether at the same time.  It's a fact of life and a direct result of my parents moving around the world and all of us ending up in different spots.

    Life isn't always "fair".    Someone is not obligated to give the same amount to each of their kids while they are living or dead.    

    Will there be fallout?   Maybe, maybe not.   Only time will tell.
    Pretend I said what these 3 ladies said.

    FTR - the relationship my son has with me vs what he has with his father sounds just like your son's CMG.  He is much closer to me, but he loves his dad.  DS and DH frustrate the crap out of each other sometimes.

    @CMGragain - do you feel comfortable that your DH will take your wishes in stride with the estate in the future?
  • I haven't read the other replies, but here are my thoughts.

    1. No matter what you do, someone will be upset. People always fight over petty things after the loss of a loved one You'd think that loss would remind us of the important things, but some people will replace hurt with anger, and no matter what the will says, they can find something in there to be angry about.

    If you accept that no matter what, someone will find something to be upset about, then you have the freedom to do what you think is best without worrying about hurt feelings.

    Your children are different people, treat them differently.

    Will you rest more peacefully knowing that your son thinks he got a good deal, or that he will have some measure of financial security?
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  • Whatever you do, clearly communicate it with your kids. My mom is very upfront about her wishes after she dies. She often tells us what she is leaving us so we will be prepared.
  • H and I are both engineers. My dad and brother are also engineers. We all have some "Sheldon-like" personality traits. One of them is being extremely logical. To me, if you explained to me "I'm leaving you X amount of money in my will, this is how it's going to be dispersed, and why" I'd say "Okay, that makes sense!" and just be happy that I was receiving a very generous gift. I am able to understand I'm receiving the same amount as my sibiling, but because our life circumstances are different, there are different needs for the money disbursement. 


     







  • I haven't read the other replies, but here are my thoughts.

    1. No matter what you do, someone will be upset. People always fight over petty things after the loss of a loved one You'd think that loss would remind us of the important things, but some people will replace hurt with anger, and no matter what the will says, they can find something in there to be angry about.

    If you accept that no matter what, someone will find something to be upset about, then you have the freedom to do what you think is best without worrying about hurt feelings.

    Your children are different people, treat them differently.

    Will you rest more peacefully knowing that your son thinks he got a good deal, or that he will have some measure of financial security?
    QFT


    My grandparents had NO money.  As in my father (their SIL) direct deposited money into their account for years to help with expenses. They were not bad with money, didn't have debt, were not wasteful. They just didn't have much to begin with.

    When my grandma died there was still fighting over who got their chair and the $3 candy dish.  It was ridiculous. 






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
  • lyndausvi said:
    I haven't read the other replies, but here are my thoughts.

    1. No matter what you do, someone will be upset. People always fight over petty things after the loss of a loved one You'd think that loss would remind us of the important things, but some people will replace hurt with anger, and no matter what the will says, they can find something in there to be angry about.

    If you accept that no matter what, someone will find something to be upset about, then you have the freedom to do what you think is best without worrying about hurt feelings.

    Your children are different people, treat them differently.

    Will you rest more peacefully knowing that your son thinks he got a good deal, or that he will have some measure of financial security?
    QFT


    My grandparents had NO money.  As in my father (their SIL) direct deposited money into their account for years to help with expenses. They were not bad with money, didn't have debt, were not wasteful. They just didn't have much to begin with.

    When my grandma died there was still fighting over who got their chair and the $3 candy dish.  It was ridiculous. 
    Happens ALL the time. We just dealt with an estate where there were 3 adult  children of a woman that just died. One male, two females, all over 60, one female with cancer that was receiving bone marrow from the brother in about 3 weeks to save her life. The estate was worth about $300,000.00 so that's $100,000.00 for everyone, plus some farm land that they were going to sell off for extra cash. 

    The brother wanted wanted to keep all the farm land for himself, but didn't want to buy it off the estate. The sisters said no, they were still selling it. What did the brother do? He told the sister he wasn't giving her the bone marrow. He took away her life saving treatment over a couple acres of farm land.

    People go apeshit when there may be money to inherit. 
  • lyndausvi said:
    I haven't read the other replies, but here are my thoughts.

    1. No matter what you do, someone will be upset. People always fight over petty things after the loss of a loved one You'd think that loss would remind us of the important things, but some people will replace hurt with anger, and no matter what the will says, they can find something in there to be angry about.

    If you accept that no matter what, someone will find something to be upset about, then you have the freedom to do what you think is best without worrying about hurt feelings.

    Your children are different people, treat them differently.

    Will you rest more peacefully knowing that your son thinks he got a good deal, or that he will have some measure of financial security?
    QFT


    My grandparents had NO money.  As in my father (their SIL) direct deposited money into their account for years to help with expenses. They were not bad with money, didn't have debt, were not wasteful. They just didn't have much to begin with.

    When my grandma died there was still fighting over who got their chair and the $3 candy dish.  It was ridiculous. 
    Happens ALL the time. We just dealt with an estate where there were 3 adult  children of a woman that just died. One male, two females, all over 60, one female with cancer that was receiving bone marrow from the brother in about 3 weeks to save her life. The estate was worth about $300,000.00 so that's $100,000.00 for everyone, plus some farm land that they were going to sell off for extra cash. 

    The brother wanted wanted to keep all the farm land for himself, but didn't want to buy it off the estate. The sisters said no, they were still selling it. What did the brother do? He told the sister he wasn't giving her the bone marrow. He took away her life saving treatment over a couple acres of farm land.

    People go apeshit when there may be money to inherit. 
    OMG.   What an ass.






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
  • If I was aware I was a screw up, I'd probably think, "eh, makes sense." and get over it. But if I'm like my f*ck-up brother and am in denial that I don't know how to make sound decisions, I'd be pissed. I guess it really depends on the kid. And to save embarrassment for your son, I'd put a note in the will for the attorney to make sure the details stay private- he might not want his sister or other present people to know you felt that he couldn't handle this situation responsibly. 
  • While I would seem deeply resentful if I were the kid in question, I would wind up being grateful for it. I come from a fiscally irresponsible family, though I'm the 'responsible' one. Every single person in my immediate family has owed me what we (in my family) would term a significant amount. However, even being fiscally more responsible than my siblings and parents I would rather have more money over the long-term than a ton of money upfront, because that way it is impossible for me to spend it all or even mentally rely on it if needed. I'd take less risks and (more importantly for me) not lend it all out.

    An example:

    I was in an accident and received a large settlement for it. After lawyers fees, medical bills, etc., I had a little over half left. I paid off my credit card and my car. I had a third left, but felt good with it. I decided to go on a vacation (took myself to Ireland, bought a beautiful gift for myself while there, the works--- I gave myself the adventure of a lifetime), had a quarter of it left. That quarter was slowly drained away lending money to relatives.

    I don't necessarily regret lending them the money, per se. But I regret that they knew I had it to lend. If they didn't, maybe they could have figured out their finances on their own. I'm okay with being here in case of emergency, but it's only now at 26 that I'm getting enough of a backbone to say no when it's not.





  • I think this is a potentially "no win" situation but I can't blame you and your DH for wondering what to do.    To those who say that you can get a college degree and own a home and those are signs you should be able to manage finances, my dad's cousin was like this.   She graduated from a private college in Boston, relocated to Texas and then Florida and despite having the right degree and a job, she wasn't very good with finances or direction.   When her father passed, he left all his assets to her (she was an only child) in trust and somehow she wound up owing the estate.     She simply lacked the ability to manage the finances herself so her father set it up the best way  he knew.

    Then there are those who can't manage money and there's no diagnosed issue other than greediness.   My MIL's sister is this way.   The father of my MIL bought MIL's sister a home and gave it to her outright.   She sold it and spent the proceeds.   He bought a home for SIL's daughter and the daughter wound up in foreclosure.   MIL's father never put into writing that this was their inheritance so there wasn't a thing done when he passed.   Ultimately nothing would have gone to them anyway since the balance of his assets went to pay for MIL's mother who spent the last ten years of her life in assisted living and nursing home care.   But you can be bet that MIL noticed that things were most certainly NOT evenly given.

    You're going to do what you think is right and it very well may be the best solution but doing what's best doesn't mean it's going to be the most liked. 
  • redoryx said:
    I'm not sure what his relationship status has to do with absolutely anything related to this question. Even if he did have a girlfriend (or boyfriend) they could be equally horrible with managing money, so that wouldn't really solve anything. 

    Also, when you say "impulsive with money" what do you mean? I can be impulsive with money and can be bad with a budget, but I'd still be super pissed if my parents thought I needed to be financially babysat while my married sister got some huge check written free and clear. Fuck that noise. 

    He owns a home. He has a job with government security clearance. They don't just had those out so based on everything you've told us, I'd say he's actually doing okay. 
    I agree with this. Honestly based on the little information that OP provided, it sounds like he made some smart decisions and now he has free money that he can do whatever he want with and OP doesn't agree with it. Now i could have interpreted that wrong and I apologize if I did so please correct me if so.

    Example: My boyfriend owns a house, has a car, is paying for all insurances, etc and is maxing out his 401k. Not just matching what the company puts in but maxing out. He also has a savings account that in case anything happens - like he loses his job, he will be set for at least 6 - 10 months depending on what he cuts back on. After that he has money he can spend on whatever. Others may see it as irresponsible because all they see is the 'willy nilly' spending but he has made all the responsible decisions and now he can make the irresponsible fun decisions. 
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  • FWIW,  there are multiple levels of government security clearance.   Some are easier to get than others.   DH maintains a security level required for his employer and the financial qualifications for that clearance aren't as strict as what is required for an additional level.

    My ex BF knew that he would never be at a high level of security clearance because his parents had financial troubles and files for bankruptcy.    Those that we know with high level clearance have to go through a rigorous interview process (I have been interviewed for a friend's clearance) vs. simply submitting paperwork. 
  • edited July 2015

    There are lots of people with troubles out there with a security clearance. Not just financial troubles, but ones with DUIs for example. As long as you are honest about things, they usually let it slide. The only time they don't is when you require a lifestyle polygraph. If certain things come up, they may reject you or lower your clearance. For the lifestyle, depending on the customer, you may or may not have to complete a financial disclosure. Not every level requires that.

     

    ETA- I usually laugh when people say "oh, but I have a security clearance!" My ex-H had one and has a felony on his record. We tried renting an apartment and they rejected us. I was new to the industry, so I was like "he has a security clearance!" It means nothing. Besides the fact that you're also not really supposed to mention it either. It's poor OPSEC.

     







  • FiancBFiancB member
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    CMGragain said:
    No, because he has a disability that affects how he handles money - ADD!  Do you guys know what that is?
    Yeah I have it, thanks for implicating I and your son need their hands held throughout life. It is your money, but once you give it to someone else it's their money and not really your business what they do with it. Funny enough, it's my non horrifically disabled sister that managed to go bankrupt, not me. I've done little stupid things with money here and there but nothing that points to blowing a large inheritance. 

    I inherited some money from my grandfather a few years ago. Half was divided between my mom and her brother, the other half divided between my two sisters and me. Part was a lump sum, part was divvied out over 5 years, and part was divvied out over 10 years. That might be a happy medium for both kids. I spent the lump sum pretty quickly (God that ADD makes me just totally inept) but used on covering some debts, moving, a truck that I needed at the time, and a few other smaller items I'd been wanting for a long time like a laptop and camera. Nothing too crazy. The monthly payments have been a huge help over the last several years. Everything was very fair and even between everyone involved. 
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  • If you're looking for arguments to talk your husband out of this, you might also mention that you would hate for an inheritance that is unequally given to drive a wedge between your children after you are gone.
  • If you're looking for arguments to talk your husband out of this, you might also mention that you would hate for an inheritance that is unequally given to drive a wedge between your children after you are gone.
    ^ That would probably be my main concern as well. 

    Also, I do not have ADD, but I would potentially make the same mistakes that you mentioned your son making. I do have OCD, which means I tend to do stupid shit quite often (thankfully, nothing huge or bad...yet), BUT I also learn really quickly from those mistakes. It kind of sounds like you and your H are being a little hard on him simply because he doesn't do things the way you would do them (or, perhaps, the way most people would). Obviously, I don't know him at all, but he seems to be fairly responsible despite the few mistakes he has made.
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