Confederate Flag Drama

HeatherKat · July 2015

What the fuck does that have to do with the fact that the Confederate Battle Flag is an undeniably racist symbol?

Viczaesar · July 2015

CMGragain said:

The Confederate flag never stood for racism, just as the Nazi swastika never stood for killing Jews, however, both things happened under those flags, and times have changed - thank God!
The Confederate flag offends many people today. I do not see the need to fly it publicly, or to use it in government symbols. It is a treasured relic of the past for many, and it belongs in museums and books. It should not be forbidden or erased. We need to remember our past, so that we will not repeat it, ever again.

It sure as hell did when it came back into prominence in response to the Civil Rights movement. Times have not changed as much as one would hope.

Viczaesar · July 2015

CMGragain said:

PS to everybody reading this:

I was born in Iowa, and moved around - a lot! I lived in Memphis, TN, between 1962 and 1966, the longest I ever lived anywhere. Coming from Iowa, I had never seen black people before. I met many people who were unashamedly racist, and I did not like or understand them. I also met many people who were enthusiastic about the changes that were happening in the south. They made more sense to me.
My great-great grandfather fought on the Union side of the Civil War. He was shot in the knee at Antietam, and so he didn't die with all his friends in that battle. He enlisted four times, the first three times he was underage, but lied about it. He ended a sergeant, and spent the rest of his life telling tales of battle and showing his scars. He never walked without a limp. I wish I could have known him in person. My Great Aunt Sarah told me stories about him.
Do not judge history as simply "right" or "wrong". Someday, other people will be judging you. (I love studying history!)

What on earth? What does your story about your gg grandfather have to do with your last section about judging history?

Somethings in history are, straight up, right or wrong. Period. Signed, an actual historian.

CMGragain · July 2015

HeatherKat said:

What the fuck does that have to do with the fact that the Confederate Battle Flag is an undeniably racist symbol?

No, it is not undeniably a racist symbol. I have experience living in the south of the early 1960s. (Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Ol' Miss) Do you? If not, how can you judge a people with such a blank statement?
The Confederate Flag has become a symbol of racism, though. It needed to come down.

STARMOON44 · July 2015

CMGragain said:

HeatherKat said:

What the fuck does that have to do with the fact that the Confederate Battle Flag is an undeniably racist symbol?

No, it is not undeniably a racist symbol. I have experience living in the south of the early 1960s. (Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Ole Miss) Do you? If not, how can you judge a people with such a blank statement?
The Confederate Flag has become a symbol of racism, though. It needed to come down.

Please, explain when the Confederate flag symbolized something other than racism. Exactly.

CMGragain · July 2015

MyNameIsNot said:

I'm a life-long southerner, and I'm thrilled to see that thing coming down. I don't understand how anyone can pretend the flag stands for something other than racism, especially when we consider that it went up in Charleston in 1961, in response to the civil rights movement.

I know a few people who fly that thing. Every single one of them is racist. Although I can't stand to be around these people, at least they are honest about it.

Yes, I knew some people like that, too. (The UDC doesn't like them, either!) The point I was making is that it wasn't always a racist symbol. Unfortunately, it is, now.

HeatherKat · July 2015

CMGragain said:

HeatherKat said:

What the fuck does that have to do with the fact that the Confederate Battle Flag is an undeniably racist symbol?

No, it is not undeniably a racist symbol. I have experience living in the south of the early 1960s. (Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Ol' Miss) Do you? If not, how can you judge a people with such a blank statement?
The Confederate Flag has become a symbol of racism, though. It needed to come down.

THE CONFEDERACY WANTED TO SECEDE BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO KEEP OWNING BLACK PEOPLE. THAT IS WHAT THE CIVIL WAR WAS FOUGHT OVER.

SLAVERY = RACIST.

For fuck's sake.

Viczaesar · July 2015

CMGragain said:

HeatherKat said:

What the fuck does that have to do with the fact that the Confederate Battle Flag is an undeniably racist symbol?

No, it is not undeniably a racist symbol. I have experience living in the south of the early 1960s. (Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Ol' Miss) Do you? If not, how can you judge a people with such a blank statement?
The Confederate Flag has become a symbol of racism, though. It needed to come down.

No. Straight up no. You are wrong. And nobody fucking cares that you lived in the south in the 60s. It's irrelevant.

MyNameIsNot · July 2015

CMGragain said:

MyNameIsNot said:

I'm a life-long southerner, and I'm thrilled to see that thing coming down. I don't understand how anyone can pretend the flag stands for something other than racism, especially when we consider that it went up in Charleston in 1961, in response to the civil rights movement.

I know a few people who fly that thing. Every single one of them is racist. Although I can't stand to be around these people, at least they are honest about it.

Yes, I knew some people like that, too. (The UDC doesn't like them, either!) The point I was making is that it wasn't always a racist symbol. Unfortunately, it is, now.

Interestingly enough, the Daughter of the Confederacy member that I know is one of the most racist people I know. Not only do they embrace her, but they revere her.

Her son wears a confederate belt buckle so that "their kind" will know to stay away from him. They don't even pretend that they aren't racist.

KatieinBkln · July 2015

CMGragain said:

STARMOON44 said:

HahahahahahHa. I know my history, thanks though. Of course there were racist northerners? And? Does that make the Confederacy less racist somehow? There sadly isn't a finite pool of hatred. Did every Confederate soldier own a slave? Of course not! That doesn't change what the war was about. I won't apologize for my attitude or change it. The Confederate flag has been a symbol of terror for generations. If it doesn't make you quiver with rage perhaps you are the one who needs to do some learning. Maybe start by reading Ta-Nehisi Coates article on The Case for Reparations. Or learn about the prevalence of lynchings. Or race riots in Oklahoma. Or vagrancy laws creating de facto slavary in the Deep South well into the 20th century. Or redlining. Or read The Warmth of Other Suns. Or just ask your Daughters of the Confederacy friends. I'm sure they're a reliable source if you'd rather be comfortable than honest.

Now you are labeling people whom you have never even met as racist. I just don't understand this.
I am happy that SC decided to take it down. I do not think it is appropriate that the Confederate flag be flown on government land. That government that the flag symbolized ended in 1864. We don't fly the British flag, do we?
I just think you should stop and realize that there are other points of view that are not necessariy racist or evil. I still don't understand your anger.

The reason someone can judge people as racist without having met them, is that racism is not merely a personal stance. A person can be racist, and be complicit in racist society, without saying out loud to themselves, "I really hate minority races!"

This is a HUGE misunderstanding. Because American society has largely (and rightly) determined that overt racism is unacceptable in polite society, it means that we don't really see the kinds of virulent, hateful speech that tends to be associated with old-timey rednecks and segregationists during the civil rights' era and the Jim Crow years. That does not mean, however, that anyone is innocent just because they don't say the n-word. It doesn't mean they're innocent even if they believe in all honesty that all races are equal. The root of their guilt is in complicity, in participating in a system of oppression that continues today. The system that convinces otherwise liberal-minded people that they can quite simply erase facts from history when it suits them ("the Civil War was not really about slavery!").

The relative complexities of the Civil War don't negate the flag's inherently racist, oppressive, and traitorous origins. So what if not every confederate soldier owned slaves? The fact that they were pawns in richer slave-owning men's machinations just makes the fact of secession and war even more despicable, and the use of the confederate flag even more disgusting.

Fran1985 · July 2015

CMGragain said:

HeatherKat said:

What the fuck does that have to do with the fact that the Confederate Battle Flag is an undeniably racist symbol?

No, it is not undeniably a racist symbol. I have experience living in the south of the early 1960s. (Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Ol' Miss) Do you? If not, how can you judge a people with such a blank statement?
The Confederate Flag has become a symbol of racism, though. It needed to come down.

Hello dear!

I'm sorry everyone is bein so mean to you. I know you hate that. One time in a pm you told me you respected my opinion so my advice would be to be way less racist. A little racist is ok here but you are being very racist. So my advice would be to tone down the overt racism.

Puppies and mint julips

Mrs Frances

STARMOON44 · July 2015

As recently as 2000, the Daughters of the Confederacy fought to keep the Confederate flag flying over the capital in South Carolina. That? That's a racist organization.

bethsmiles · July 2015

I seriously cannot even believe this debate is being had. The Civil War was complex, the events and decisions that led us to the Civil War were complex, trying to put the country together afterwards and move forward was complex. But not everything about it is complicated - the South wanted to be able to own black people and that was a big fucking part of why they left the union. Just because someone didn't own slaves didn't mean they were against slavery so the fact that many confederate soldiers didn't own slaves is really a red herring argument that doesn't support the point you are trying to make at all.

Cookie Pusher · July 2015

KatieinBkln said:

CMGragain said:

STARMOON44 said:

HahahahahahHa. I know my history, thanks though. Of course there were racist northerners? And? Does that make the Confederacy less racist somehow? There sadly isn't a finite pool of hatred. Did every Confederate soldier own a slave? Of course not! That doesn't change what the war was about. I won't apologize for my attitude or change it. The Confederate flag has been a symbol of terror for generations. If it doesn't make you quiver with rage perhaps you are the one who needs to do some learning. Maybe start by reading Ta-Nehisi Coates article on The Case for Reparations. Or learn about the prevalence of lynchings. Or race riots in Oklahoma. Or vagrancy laws creating de facto slavary in the Deep South well into the 20th century. Or redlining. Or read The Warmth of Other Suns. Or just ask your Daughters of the Confederacy friends. I'm sure they're a reliable source if you'd rather be comfortable than honest.

Now you are labeling people whom you have never even met as racist. I just don't understand this.
I am happy that SC decided to take it down. I do not think it is appropriate that the Confederate flag be flown on government land. That government that the flag symbolized ended in 1864. We don't fly the British flag, do we?
I just think you should stop and realize that there are other points of view that are not necessariy racist or evil. I still don't understand your anger.

The reason someone can judge people as racist without having met them, is that racism is not merely a personal stance. A person can be racist, and be complicit in racist society, without saying out loud to themselves, "I really hate minority races!"

This is a HUGE misunderstanding. Because American society has largely (and rightly) determined that overt racism is unacceptable in polite society, it means that we don't really see the kinds of virulent, hateful speech that tends to be associated with old-timey rednecks and segregationists during the civil rights' era and the Jim Crow years. That does not mean, however, that anyone is innocent just because they don't say the n-word. It doesn't mean they're innocent even if they believe in all honesty that all races are equal. The root of their guilt is in complicity, in participating in a system of oppression that continues today. The system that convinces otherwise liberal-minded people that they can quite simply erase facts from history when it suits them ("the Civil War was not really about slavery!").

The relative complexities of the Civil War don't negate the flag's inherently racist, oppressive, and traitorous origins. So what if not every confederate soldier owned slaves? The fact that they were pawns in richer slave-owning men's machinations just makes the fact of secession and war even more despicable, and the use of the confederate flag even more disgusting.

QFT.

chibiyui · July 2015

It's actually about ethics in our ancestors race relations.

PrettyGirlLost · July 2015

My FI is from Charleston and has a completely different understanding of the flag than I do, raised in the Midwest. To him, it is a symbol of the rebellious spirit of the South, rising against the oppressive Northern Government, his words. I am not saying he is wrong but there is an Enormous difference between what they teach kids in the South and what I was taught. He doesn't understand that the majority of people think something entirely different when they, myself included, see the Confederate flag.

That is typical southern revisionist history and Confederate apologist history. Those who organized the Confederate cause and were responsible for secession were not just rebelling against the big, bad government.

1st of all, this is the actual Flag of the Confederated States of America:

Hmmm, doesn't look familiar does it? That's because there are a lot of uneducated twits running about the South- and North too- who have no concept of US history.

The flag that was just recently removed from the S.C. state capitol is this flag:

That's the Confederate Battle Flag, also known as the Stars and Bars. That is one of many variations used throughout the Civil War. It's creator, William T. Thompson, is quoted as saying this about it's creation,

“As a people we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.” —William T. Thompson (April 23, 1863), Daily Morning News"

Huh, that doesn't sound racist AT ALL!

Now, there was no War of Northern Aggression. Period. It was a civil war, and the Confederacy frigging lost. The causes of the war were complex and intertwined, and generally lost upon those who take pride in plastering the confederate flag all over their cars, beer coozies, and tshirts.

The primary issues of the Civil War were economics, slavery, and states' rights.

What was the "right' the southern states were trying to retain from the Federal government? The right to retain slaves. And why did they claim they needed this "right"?

Well, the Industrial Revolution in the North brought an influx of millions of European immigrants to the north, all clamoring for jobs that paid poor wages in factories and manufacturing plants with poor and unsafe conditions. Meanwhile in the South, plantation owners relied almost exclusively on unpaid slave labor on their plantations. Why the fuck couldn't the South just abolish slavery and pay the slaves the same shitty wages the northern immigrants were being paid? I'm not 100% sure, but it likely had to do with fucking greed; paying anyone any wage would eat into their profit margins.

Oh, and fucking racism! Confederate vice president Alexander Stephens gave a speech right before the Civil War broke out and had this to say:

"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth…"

This is stated directly in the Texas declaration of causes of secession:

". . . in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding states...."

Here's an excerpt from Jefferson Davis, who became the president of the Confederacy:

" You too know, that among us, white men have an equality resulting from a presence of a lower caste, which cannot exist where white men fill the position here occupied by the servile race. The mechanic who comes among us, employing the less intellectual labor of the African, takes the position which only a master-workman occupies where all the mechanics are white, and therefore it is that our mechanics hold their position of absolute equality among us."

And on and on.

It's not like there was no racism in the North- ask the immigrants how welcomed they were during the Industrial Revolution and the US Westward Expansion that followed the Civil War. And it's not like the North took this moral high ground against slavery from 1776 onward- all of the northern colonies allowed slavery and merchants from several played important roles in the slave trade until it was abolished in 1808.

However, my point with this history lesson is that you who choose to fly the Confederate Battle Flag in 2015, outside of a Civil War reenactment group, DO NOT get to pick and choose what the battle flag stands for. It stands for state's rights, and slavery, and racism simultaneously.

And by the way, the reason people wanted S.C. to stop flying the figging thing over official, government buildings in the wake of the church shootings in Charleston is bc 1. S.C. fucking started the civil war by firing on Fort Sumter, and 2. Roof was an admitted white supremacist who photographed himself with the Confederate Battle Flag. So, can we see the connection now?!

Here are some interesting articles on this matter:
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/04/the-ghost-of-bobby-lee/38813/
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/
http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html#Texas
http://www.liberalamerica.org/2015/06/19/10-facts-you-didnt-know-about-the-confederate-flag-racism-much-worse-than-you-thought/

ETA: Forgot to list my credentials:

I am not a history professor nor have I ever majored in it. I'm a white, Libertarian, registered Republican who was born in the South and lives in the North, and who has many friends who are avid Civil War reenactors and amateur historians, some of whom are proud Sons and Daughters of the Confederacy, and we have discussed the causes and motives of the Civil War from all angles many times a year for the past 10 years or so.

chibiyui · July 2015

@prettygirllost

PrettyGirlLost · July 2015

chibiyui said:

@prettygirllost

*blush*

TrixieJess · July 2015

CMGragain said:

The Confederate flag never stood for racism, just as the Nazi swastika never stood for killing Jews, however, both things happened under those flags, and times have changed - thank God!
The Confederate flag offends many people today. I do not see the need to fly it publicly, or to use it in government symbols. It is a treasured relic of the past for many, and it belongs in museums and books. It should not be forbidden or erased. We need to remember our past, so that we will not repeat it, ever again.

I have to admit as a Canadian we are taught in our American history classes that the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism especially when dealing with the Civil War and the Desegregation of the South in the Sixties.

As for the Swastika, it was originally a Buddhist Sanskrit symbol of prosperity. How many people associate prosperity with it now? Anyone? Bueller? Yeah didn't think so. Symbols are changed and viewed by the meanings attributed to them, not by their intention.

hellohkb · July 2015

If slavery wasn't racist... What is?

bethsmiles · July 2015

hellohkb said:

If slavery wasn't racist... What is?

Apparently heritage worthy of being proud of.

flbride2015 · July 2015

Knottie1430505628 said:

My FI is from Charleston and has a completely different understanding of the flag than I do, raised in the Midwest. To him, it is a symbol of the rebellious spirit of the South, rising against the oppressive Northern Government, his words. I am not saying he is wrong but there is an Enormous difference between what they teach kids in the South and what I was taught. He doesn't understand that the majority of people think something entirely different when they, myself included, see the Confederate flag.

But his understanding IS WRONG. It's not a matter of opinion. Like I said in my first post, the Confederate states wrote declarations explaining exactly why they seceded. Just read them. They explicitly state it was over slavery. They even refer to themselves as "slave owning states" and the North as the "non-slave owning states."

I mean, at what point do you say to yourself, "OK, all these people are telling me they believe the opposite of what I believe. Maybe I should research it some more and find out what the truth is?" That's what I did when I kept seeing the "states rights' argument. I went back, pulled up the declarations, and reread them. And yup, they still said it was over slavery.

flbride2015 · July 2015

CMGragain said:

The Confederate flag never stood for racism, just as the Nazi swastika never stood for killing Jews, however, both things happened under those flags, and times have changed - thank God!
The Confederate flag offends many people today. I do not see the need to fly it publicly, or to use it in government symbols. It is a treasured relic of the past for many, and it belongs in museums and books. It should not be forbidden or erased. We need to remember our past, so that we will not repeat it, ever again.

This is exactly why I wrote this post. What exactly is it you believe the Confederate flag stood for? I honestly want to know. And based on what did you come to the conclusion?

flbride2015 · July 2015

bethsmiles said:

hellohkb said:

If slavery wasn't racist... What is?

Apparently heritage worthy of being proud of.

I think what kills me the most about the heritage argument is that it supposedly stands for the heritage of the South right? But the South also includes Black Americans. It's not all White Americans down there; do the Southerners who argue heritage truly believe it is inclusive of Southern Black Americans as well? Or is it White American heritage they're displaying their pride for?

I went to a diversity class for work and they showed this quote that really made sense to me: If you're not intentionally including people, you're unintentionally excluding people.

redoryx · July 2015

TrixieJess said:

CMGragain said:

The Confederate flag never stood for racism, just as the Nazi swastika never stood for killing Jews, however, both things happened under those flags, and times have changed - thank God!
The Confederate flag offends many people today. I do not see the need to fly it publicly, or to use it in government symbols. It is a treasured relic of the past for many, and it belongs in museums and books. It should not be forbidden or erased. We need to remember our past, so that we will not repeat it, ever again.

I have to admit as a Canadian we are taught in our American history classes that the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism especially when dealing with the Civil War and the Desegregation of the South in the Sixties.

As for the Swastika, it was originally a Buddhist Sanskrit symbol of prosperity. How many people associate prosperity with it now? Anyone? Bueller? Yeah didn't think so. Symbols are changed and viewed by the meanings attributed to them, not by their intention.

Yes, the Swastika as a symbol was about good fortune and has been co-opted several times. But to say that the Nazi Swastika specifically did not stand for racism is one of the most ridiculously ignorant things I think I've ever heard. Anti-semtisim attitudes belonged to early party members from the beginning, and while, yes, there were other things they believed -- much like the South fought for states' rights -- there is no earthly way to say these two symbols did not and do not represent racist belief systems.

Fran1985 · July 2015

CMGragain said:

Who told you this? How do you know? Racism was throughout society, both north and south, during the Civil War. Some northerners were more racist than most southerners. Yes, many fought for freedom for slaves, but not everyone did. Most Confederate soldiers did not own any slaves. Most officers did.
Yes, the flag needed to come down! I do think you are making some assumptions about history that might not be accurate.

I have one more tip to be a tad more likable! Assume people have the ability to read history. And just because you are in your 60s, don't act or speak like you were actually around during the civil war.

You were like 10 in 1960.

ETA: I surely don't want this thread to get any more negative, I know it got negative when you used the N word in the other thread and said it was the same thing as being called a wasp. Now that I think about it, that kind of thinking might be connected to you defending racist people though. Someone who feels comfortable using the N word for any reason and someone who thinks that's the same thing as being called a wasp is probably also someone who would defend the confederate flag. I'm about to start on my Friday night wine (I've finished my Friday morning mimosas) so I am certainly not going to dwell on this, but I feel like all these things might be somehow connected, but I'm not sure. I'll ask my husband if he has thoughts on it, because I don't want to give myself wrinkles!

Petticoats & Grits

Mrs Frances

AuroraRose41 · July 2015

CMGragain said:

Who told you this? How do you know? Racism was throughout society, both north and south, during the Civil War. Some northerners were more racist than most southerners. Yes, many fought for freedom for slaves, but not everyone did. Most Confederate soldiers did not own any slaves. Most officers did.
Yes, the flag needed to come down! I do think you are making some assumptions about history that might not be accurate.

**BOXES**

To add on to what others have said, I want to point out how absolutely ignorant the bolded is. I took many Civil War history courses, from professors who grew up in the South (but who understood the racist motivations behind it, so your argument about people who didn't grow up in the South not understanding is also flawed).

As @PrettyGirlLost mentioned, many in the South regarded African Americans as a lower caste then Caucasians. Many of the Confederate soldiers fought because no matter how poor they were, no matter how uneducated they were, or whether or not they owned land or slaves, they WERE STILL ABOVE AFRICAN AMERICANS in their minds. If African Americans got their freedom, then those men felt that they would have nothing as they would no longer be better than anyone else, which motivated many of them to fight to KEEP SLAVERY. Just because they didn't own slaves doesn't mean they weren't racist.

The flag and everything to do with the Confederacy is absolutely based in racism (because, again, as others pointed out, the entire Southern economy relied on slavery), and while it should be remembered as a part of history, it shouldn't be something that people romanticize and celebrate.

pinupbride6189 · July 2015

Coming from someone who grew up in the deep south, being taught and raised with the beliefs that the confederacy was something to be proud of, and that the civil war wasn't about slavery, to the point of, as a kid wearing shirts that said, "If this flag offends you, you need a history lesson," I'm glad the flag has been lowered. It took me growing up and moving around a bit to really come into my own and understand that a lot of the values I was raised with were just wrong, prejudiced, and completely misguided.

My dad is very proud of his heritage, to include the flag in question, and brags that we have several high ranking confederate officers in our ancestry, and he honestly doesn't believe any of that is racist. He honestly believes that the south was standing up to oppression and asserting itself to an over-reaching federal government. Is he right? Does it matter that he sincerely believes that? No. It doesn't make it ok. But I don't think he'll ever be convinced of that.

It was really interesting having this discussion with FI, as we were raised in completely different settings. He'd never heard the "states rights," arguement, while I had been taught it as truth both at home and in school. His mind was blown that that was actually allowed in public schools. TBH, so am I at this point in my life. Like I said, even though I was raised with them, these are no long values I hold.

So, here's a question: The city I grew up in calls itself The City of Five Flags, as throughout it's history, it's had the flags of five nations flown over it. It's been governed by England, France, Spain, the confederacy and of course, the USA. There are several pieces of public/government owned land (parks, sports/concert venues, I think perhaps even in front of the court house) where all 5 of these flags fly. During the summer they have a Festival of Five flags. What's the right answer in this case? Do you take all of them down? Do you just take down the confederate flag pretend that part never happened? I'm genuinely asking, because it's something I've been thinking a lot about as of late.

CMGragain · July 2015

If you really want to see a totally racist statement that is unbelievably horrible in today's time, read the eleventh edition of the Encyclopedia Brittanica. It gives you some insight into what people were taught about the equality of races 100 years ago. It is horrifying by today's knowledge, but it was taught and accepted as fact by scientists in the early 1900s.
I want to remind you that I am very pleased that the flag was taken down. I know no one who would support slavery today, at least not in the USA. It is still happening in parts of the world. My objection is to the changing of historical facts and times in light of new events.
I also usually feel that if you have to use profanity and rage to try to win your argument, there might just be something wrong with your thinking? This last is JMHO.

hellohkb · July 2015

CMGragain said:
If you really want to see a totally racist statement that is unbelievably horrible in today's time, read the eleventh edition of the Encyclopedia Brittanica. It gives you some insight into what people were taught about the equality of races 100 years ago. It is horrifying by today's knowledge, but it was taught and accepted as fact by scientists in the early 1900s.
I want to remind you that I am very pleased that the flag was taken down. I know no one who would support slavery today, at least not in the USA. It is still happening in parts of the world. My objection is to the changing of historical facts and times in light of new events.
I also usually feel that if you have to use profanity and rage to try to win your argument, there might just be something wrong with your thinking? This last is JMHO.

What does that have to do with this, though?

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