Confederate Flag Drama

Re: Confederate Flag Drama

• HeatherKat member

  

  July 2015

  CMGragain said:

  I do think it is interesting that a discussion about history and symbolism has degraded to a name calling contest.  I'm out of here.  My multi-racial family is laughing so hard.
  

  Plusandalso:

  
  

  
  

  Amor vincet omnia.... par liones.

  
  

  
  

  

  Report3 Reply
• jacques27 member

  

  July 2015 edited July 2015

  CMGragain said:

  I do think it is interesting that a discussion about history and symbolism has degraded to a name calling contest.  I'm out of here.  My multi-racial family is laughing so hard.
  

  Well, yes, interesting things tend to happen when some people submit a ludicrous position about how the flag was never about racism, then was presented numerous well-reasoned posts arguing why that was indeed ludicrous, and the response back to that was basically "I can't be a racist because I didn't disown my daughter when she decided to marry and have a child outside of our race and also look at all these other things that are like hella racist - where's my cookie for not being a monster to my daughter's family?"  When stuff like that happens...yup, interesting.
  

  Report12 Reply
• pinkcow13 member

  

  July 2015

  I pretty much stopped reading after she said you don't need to use profane language to make a point or some bullshit. Really?! This from the woman that wrote out every derogatory racial term in another thread. Now that's some real bullshit.

                               

  

  
  

   

  Report8 Reply
• Cookie Pusher member

  

  July 2015

  I'm so disgusted by this. My dad was white. He married an Asian lady. That did not mean they weren't racist assholes, it just meant they'd use the new non-white family members as an excuse for why they weren't racists while spouting off their nasty bullshit.

  ~*~*~*~*~

  
  

  Report10 Reply
• FiancB member

  

  July 2015

  pinkcow13 said:

  I pretty much stopped reading after she said you don't need to use profane language to make a point or some bullshit. Really?! This from the woman that wrote out every derogatory racial term in another thread. Now that's some real bullshit.

  Yeah not to mention she's been on a few cursing rampages herself. Usually over blue tuxes or some other inane shit.

  
  

  Report2 Reply
• pinkcow13 member

  

  July 2015

  FiancB said:

  pinkcow13 said:

  I pretty much stopped reading after she said you don't need to use profane language to make a point or some bullshit. Really?! This from the woman that wrote out every derogatory racial term in another thread. Now that's some real bullshit.

  Yeah not to mention she's been on a few cursing rampages herself. Usually over blue tuxes or some other inane shit.

  I mean I guess that's something really egregious. It's totally acceptable to curse because someone wore a blue tux before 6pm.
  

                               

  

  
  

   

  Report1 Reply
• huskypuppy14 member

  

  July 2015

  FiancB said:

  I pretty much stopped reading after she said you don't need to use profane language to make a point or some bullshit. Really?! This from the woman that wrote out every derogatory racial term in another thread. Now that's some real bullshit.

  Yeah not to mention she's been on a few cursing rampages herself. Usually over blue tuxes or some other inane shit.

  She also made a thread to say how smart she is. 

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  Report4 Reply
• CMGragain member

  

  July 2015 edited July 2015

  Good evening ladies.
  
  I wanted to thank you for yesterday.  I was having a very difficult day, and all of the fun on this thread distracted me.  I needed distraction.
  
  There were many replies that were well thought out.  I enjoyed reading them.
  
  There were other comments that are full of hate.  I ignore them.
  
  This was my take on yesterday's thread before it went crazy:
  
  1.  We all agree that slavery was very wrong, and the Civil War was necessary to end it .
  
  2.  We all agree that the flag needed to come down because it offends many people, and symbolized racism to many.
  
  3.  We all agree that racism is wrong.
  
  The only dispute that I saw was this: 
  A.  The Confederate Battle Flag ALWAYS symbolized racism.
  B.  The Confederate Battle Flag HAS BECOME a flag that symbolizes racism.
  
  That's it.  That was the only dispute.  It is about perspective and historical point of view, not racism.  Many posters realized this, and I "liked" quite a few of the posts..
  
  How does this make me a racist?  I am not a racist.  I do not have to prove that to anybody.  I know who I am.
  
  I choose what kind of people I have as friends.  I do not have any racist friends, though I used to have some older relatives that were.  I think we all did.
  I also do not have any friends who rage and yell profanity when they are having a conversation.  This is my choice.  If you do this is your daily life, you will not be welcome in my house.
  For those of you who have been civil to me, I thank you.  History has always fascinated me.  I visited most of the major battlefields of the Civil War with my children when they were younger.  We also visited several military cemeteries, including some Confederate ones.  It was a moving experience.  If you haven't seen Ken Burns' The Civil War miniseries, you really should.  I also recommend the current PBS series about the abolitionists.  I learned some things new from this, and I am looking forward to next week's show.
  I am not the least upset about yesterdays posts.  Those of you who were deliberately trying to hurt me, (and shame on you if you did!) failed.  I enjoy many of the ladies on The Knot., and I plan to continue to post.
  I did have to fix dinner yesterday.  I am not available 24/7 to post, and I am on Mountain Daylight time.
  See you around the Knot.
  

  

  Report0 Reply
• PrettyGirlLost member

  

  July 2015

  CMGragain said:

  
  The only dispute that I saw was this: 
  A.  The Confederate Battle Flag ALWAYS symbolized racism.
  B.  The Confederate Battle Flag HAS BECOME a flag that symbolizes racism.
  
  That's it.  That was the only dispute.  It is about perspective and historical point of view, not racism.  Many posters realized this, and I "liked" quite a few of the posts..
  
  
  

  It has always symbolized, racism though.  That isn't disputed anywhere else except in places in the south apparently.  If you read the words of the man who created it, and the causes of secession of many of the states of the Confederacy, there is absolutely no way a rational person with a grasp of the English language can believe otherwise.
  

  
  "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."
  
  

  
  

  Report11 Reply
• CMGragain member

  

  July 2015 edited July 2015

  The thing is, almost everybody was racist in the 1800's.  It was considered normal and acceptable.  Now, we know better.
  If you asked the soldiers that fought under that flag why they were fighting, they wouldn't say they were fighting about slavery - even if they really were.  Their thinking was that they were fighting for Virginia, or South Carolina, or whatever state against the Yankee invaders.
  Of course the Civil War was fought to end slavery, and also to preserve the Union.  It is sad that it has taken 150 years for us to finally take down that flag.  I am so glad that I live in a country that can change with the times, and to recognize mistakes.
  I watched the flag retirement on the news.  It was done with honor and respect.  Nobody stomped on the flag, or spit on it.  Nobody burned it.  Afterwards, they removed the flag pole and the fence, too.  I thought it was a wonderful moment in our history.  God bless America!
  
  PS.  There is no way I would EVER display that flag or wear it in any form.  I never have, and never will.  I do like the song, "Dixie", though.
  

  

  Report1 Reply
• MadHops21 member

  

  July 2015

  flbride2015 said:

  CMGragain said:

  I do think it is interesting that a discussion about history and symbolism has degraded to a name calling contest.  I'm out of here.  My multi-racial family is laughing so hard.
  

  Is this like saying "I have black friends?"

  I can't be racist, I have a black president! 

  ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 

  
  

  Report0 Reply
• STARMOON44 member

  

  July 2015

  You had fun? Inflicting hurt on people by insisting the confederacy wasn't racist and the daughters of the confederacy aren't racist? That's your idea of fun?
  

  Report1 Reply
• KatieinBkln member

  

  July 2015

  STARMOON44 said:

  You had fun? Inflicting hurt on people by insisting the confederacy wasn't racist and the daughters of the confederacy aren't racist? That's your idea of fun?
  

  Well, she didn't swear while doing it, though, so she's home-free.

  
  

  This baby knows exactly how I feel

  Report1 Reply
• FiancB member

  

  July 2015 edited July 2015

  So you're basically saying we live in a post racial society?
  
  On my phone but insert some sort of head slamming or judge Judy eye rolling gif.
  
  Saying you aren't racist and clicking your heels three times does not make it so. I find myself thinking problematic things all the time but I recognize it and try to change it and educate myself on it. It's really frustrating to see someone claim they aren't racist yet also refuse to listen as to how the flag's makers and supporters can be directly quoted saying that it IS racist and throw in something about a black person being more racist than them and refuse to acknowledge that this is not possible.
  
  And FWIW, my sister is married to a Filipino man. My parents in fact did not stop their wedding or put a hit out on him, but they are still some of the most racist and bigoted people I know- just not against Filipinos. You don't have to be a full on white supremacist to be racist. You being okay with having Asian in-laws has nothing to do with your many problematic things said about black people.

  
  

  Report6 Reply
• redoryx member

  

  July 2015

  CMGragain said:

  The thing is, almost everybody was racist in the 1800's.  It was considered normal and acceptable.  Now, we know better.
  If you asked the soldiers that fought under that flag why they were fighting, they wouldn't say they were fighting about slavery - even if they really were.  Their thinking was that they were fighting for Virginia, or South Carolina, or whatever state against the Yankee invaders.
  Of course the Civil War was fought to end slavery, and also to preserve the Union.  It is sad that it has taken 150 years for us to finally take down that flag.  I am so glad that I live in a country that can change with the times, and to recognize mistakes.
  I watched the flag retirement on the news.  It was done with honor and respect.  Nobody stomped on the flag, or spit on it.  Nobody burned it.  Afterwards, they removed the flag pole and the fence, too.  I thought it was a wonderful moment in our history.  God bless America!
  
  PS.  There is no way I would EVER display that flag or wear it in any form.  I never have, and never will.  I do like the song, "Dixie", though.
  

  
  

  I grew up in a town that has a very, very, very strong abolitionist history. Multiple houses that still stand were part of the Underground Railroad. Please do not speak as if everyone at that time period owned slaves or were okay with the idea of slavery because history says otherwise.

  
  

  I suggest you educate yourself on the concept of racial micro aggression. Racism isn't as black and white (pun intended) as the idea of overt racism that you seem to be clinging to. 

  
  

  http://www.uwsp.edu/acadaff/NewFacultyResources/NFSRacialMicroaggressions_Table.pdf
  

  

  Report7 Reply
• MairePoppy mod

  

  July 2015

  This is going to be a post and run. I'll catch up later. I found an interesting website that explains how some people came to believe that the Civil War and confederate flag were not about slavery and racism. 

  
  

  http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Lost_Cause_The
  

                     

  Report2 Reply
• JoanE2012 member

  

  July 2015

  It disgusts me that anyone would label this thread as "fun".  

  Report8 Reply
• kimmiinthemitten member

  

  July 2015

  When the dude who designed the flag declares "I'm making this flag because I'm racist as fuck and I hate black people and need a symbol to prove it" you don't get to say "he didn't really mean it" because it makes you feel better. @PrettyGirlLost you're my hero!

  
  

  Report3 Reply
• ohannabelle member

  

  July 2015

  kimmiandkoley said:

  When the dude who designed the flag declares "I'm making this flag because I'm racist as fuck and I hate black people and need a symbol to prove it" you don't get to say "he didn't really mean it" because it makes you feel better. @PrettyGirlLost you're my hero!

  And then the flag is hoisted and they start shooting at their fellow countrymen, and by the time it's done as many as 750,000 people died because an over privileged and greedy society wanted the right to own other human beings, and buy and sell and torture and rape and murder them whenever the mood caught their fancy. 

  
  

  There's nothing even vaguely okay about painting this history in magnolia white, and sighing over the romance of the past. Cultural pride and heritage be damned. 

  
  

  Honestly, if there was an organization called Daughters of The Third Reich, flying the nazi flag and saying, oh, no, it's all about history and education and honoring our fallen ancestors, would that be cool? Hell, no. 

  
  

  My fallen Confederate forefathers were asshole exploiters of human rights, human traffickers, and ignorant evil shits at worst, gullible idiots at very best, or simply poor goddamned fools wasting their lives for the benefit of the 10% because their choice was fight or be killed as traitors, and they didn't have the courage or integrity or resources to run like hell. 

  
  

  I'd be goddamned if I'd join the UDC and perpetuate the revisionist and denialist  bullshit that group has perpetuated over the past century. Whitewashing bigotry and death with pedigreed frikking tea parties. Ack. No. 

  
  

  Truth matters. 

  Report28 Reply
• PrettyGirlLost member

  

  July 2015

  Honestly, I don't know anything about either the Sons or Daughters of the Confederacy.  I'm not sure how overtly racist or not their members are, nor what they actually do.
  
  I have a war gaming friend who hosts fantastically researched and executed, award winning civil war games within our organization, and he is a Son of the Confederacy.  But I've never gotten the impression from him that he agrees with any racist sentiments of that time or celebrates that aspect of his family's history.  I should ask him what his take on this fracas and it's resolution is.
  
  I don't think CMGr meant literally everyone was racist in the 1800's, but we have to all agree that a lot of people sure were.  In the North as well as the South.  There was a lot of xenophobic crap and discrimination and worse directed at the immigrants coming over to participate in the Industrial Revolution. 
  
  I agree that we should take things in the context of their times, however that doesn't mean that what was said or written about or acted upon should be excused.  Lincoln and a bunch of other people disagreed with Frederick Douglas et al. about slavery.  Some progress was made then, more in the '60's, but we still have a ways to go, it seems.
  

  
  "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."
  
  

  
  

  Report6 Reply
• marie2785 member

  

  July 2015

  Um, you know why we're talking about the Confederate flag?

  
  

  because it distracts us from talking about gun rights

  
  

  A young, white male, who the FBI has now admitted should NOT HAVE OWNED A GUN BASED ON THEIR OWN RULES, shot up a black church in order to start a race war. So now we have a racist white kid, engaged in an act of domestic terrorism, using a weapon that he shouldn't have had access to...and WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A FLAG.

  
  

  • domestic terrorism
    
  • access to guns/gun rights
    
  • why do young white males keep engaging in mass murder?
    
  • Why is there still such deep seated racism in this country?
    

  Nope. We're not talking about those things. We're talking about a flag. 

  
  

  (side note, I think the confederate flag is a symbol of racism and am happy it's being taken down, but it's being used as a scapegoat so we don't talk about the MUCH larger issues) 

  Report3 Reply
• [Deleted User] member

  

  July 2015 edited July 2015

  
  

  Report7 Reply
• hellohkb mod

  

  July 2015

  XXXplicit said:

  
  

  marie2785 said:

  
  

  Um, you know why we're talking about the Confederate flag?

  
  

  because it distracts us from talking about gun rights

  
  

  A young, white male, who the FBI has now admitted should NOT HAVE OWNED A GUN BASED ON THEIR OWN RULES, shot up a black church in order to start a race war. So now we have a racist white kid, engaged in an act of domestic terrorism, using a weapon that he shouldn't have had access to...and WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A FLAG.

  
  

  • domestic terrorism
    
  • access to guns/gun rights
    
  • why do young white males keep engaging in mass murder?
    
  • Why is there still such deep seated racism in this country?
    

  Nope. We're not talking about those things. We're talking about a flag. 

  
  

  (side note, I think the confederate flag is a symbol of racism and am happy it's being taken down, but it's being used as a scapegoat so we don't talk about the MUCH larger issues) 

  
  

  We can talk about both. Don't be weird.
  
  
  This. Wtf. Are we going to start talking about weird conspiracy theories next?
  
  (Pleasenopleasenopleasenopleasenopleaseno)

  
  
  

  
  
  
  

  Report1 Reply
• FiancB member

  

  July 2015

  JoanE2012 said:

  It disgusts me that anyone would label this thread as "fun".  

  
  
  
  This. For those that don't like the term white privilege, this is it.
  
  Debates are fun water cooler talk. Dismissing being called out for being racist is a laughing matter. The flag is about heritage, not a constant reminder that you are Less Than.
  

  
  

  Report7 Reply
• QueerFemme member

  

  July 2015

  omg...   I'm hella late to this thread.   But, holy shit show.  People in the south need to be proud of sweet tea and fried stuff, and stop being proud of being part of the confederacy.  The confederacy was racist.  There was absolutely no other reason to want to disassociate from the federal government and want 'state rights".  Anyone who says so, is either an idiot, a closet racist, or just uneducated.  The flag, the whole "be proud of my roots" shit is racist as hell.    

  

  Websites/blogs where our wedding has been featured:

  http://www.dapperq.com/2013/11/a-very-dapper-wedding/
  

  http://www.onabicyclebuiltfortwo.com/2013/10/wedding-christina-g.html
  

  http://4realequalityweddings.com/2014/05/16/g-christina/
  

  Report9 Reply
• AlexisA01 member

  

  July 2015

  QueerFemme said:

  omg...   I'm hella late to this thread.   But, holy shit show.  People in the south need to be proud of sweet tea and fried stuff, and stop being proud of being part of the confederacy.  The confederacy was racist.  There was absolutely no other reason to want to disassociate from the federal government and want 'state rights".  Anyone who says so, is either an idiot, a closet racist, or just uneducated.  The flag, the whole "be proud of my roots" shit is racist as hell.    

  Brilliant!

  Live fast, die young. Bad Girls do it well. Suki Zuki.

  Report0 Reply
• [Deleted User] member

  

  July 2015

  I found out recently that my great great great grandmother's brother died at Gettysburg, fighting for the CSA.  It came as a surprise, since I (a native Pennsylvanian) was unaware that my family is actually part of a very old Virginia family related to the Washingtons.  I wish I could have talked to him.  He wasn't an officer.  In fact he was barely an adult.  I'd love to know what thoughts were going through his head when he enlisted.  I think many of them simply chose to defend their homes and families, race and all that jazz aside.  However, racial oppression truly is an issue, and it is definitely time for those issues to be dealt with by ALL. 

  Report1 Reply
• kimmiinthemitten member

  

  July 2015

  QueerFemme said:

  omg...   I'm hella late to this thread.   But, holy shit show.  People in the south need to be proud of sweet tea and fried stuff, and stop being proud of being part of the confederacy.  The confederacy was racist.  There was absolutely no other reason to want to disassociate from the federal government and want 'state rights".  Anyone who says so, is either an idiot, a closet racist, or just uneducated.  The flag, the whole "be proud of my roots" shit is racist as hell.    

  And BBQ.  Especially Carolina BBQ!

  
  

  Report2 Reply
• ohannabelle member

  

  July 2015

  .

  kimmiandkoley said:

  QueerFemme said:

  omg...   I'm hella late to this thread.   But, holy shit show.  People in the south need to be proud of sweet tea and fried stuff, and stop being proud of being part of the confederacy.  The confederacy was racist.  There was absolutely no other reason to want to disassociate from the federal government and want 'state rights".  Anyone who says so, is either an idiot, a closet racist, or just uneducated.  The flag, the whole "be proud of my roots" shit is racist as hell.    

  And BBQ.  Especially Carolina BBQ!

  Barbecue deserves a flag of its own. Throw some cornbread and green beans with bacon on the side, and I'll carry that flag. That's a flag I'd fight for. 

  Report4 Reply