Follow up: what if they both are drunk?

redoryx · July 2015

huskypuppy14 said:

redoryx said:

A person legally cannot give consent while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. That's an indisputable fact, there is no grey area here. It doesn't matter if they are passed out, if the person is drunk they cannot give consent. Silence cannot be read as implied consent either.

So even if both people are drunk, if Person A believes they were raped that doesn't mean they weren't just because Person B was also drunk and maybe doesn't remember what happens. Even if Person B believes it was consensual, if Person A was drunk they legally couldn't have agreed anyway.

I think OP is getting at what if A and B are drunk, and both claim rape? That rarely happens, and we can't speculate on what the correct assumption is because it's a hypothetical. Each situation is different, but on a whole it's wise for everyone to not sleep with drunk people.

Ohhhhhh gotcha, gotcha. Yes, that is very unlikely to happen, especially in the case of male victims which go unreported even more often than female victims.

kkitkat79 · July 2015

huskypuppy14 said:

redoryx said:

A person legally cannot give consent while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. That's an indisputable fact, there is no grey area here. It doesn't matter if they are passed out, if the person is drunk they cannot give consent. Silence cannot be read as implied consent either.

So even if both people are drunk, if Person A believes they were raped that doesn't mean they weren't just because Person B was also drunk and maybe doesn't remember what happens. Even if Person B believes it was consensual, if Person A was drunk they legally couldn't have agreed anyway.

I think OP is getting at what if A and B are drunk, and both claim rape? That rarely happens, and we can't speculate on what the correct assumption is because it's a hypothetical. Each situation is different, but on a whole it's wise for everyone to not sleep with drunk people.

I am in full agreement with the bolded.

This article expresses my thoughts on the subject much more eloquently than I can. It's long though.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/relationships/sex-on-campus-how-no-means-no-became-yes-means-yes/article21598708/

huskypuppy14 · July 2015

kkitkat79 said:

huskypuppy14 said:

redoryx said:

A person legally cannot give consent while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. That's an indisputable fact, there is no grey area here. It doesn't matter if they are passed out, if the person is drunk they cannot give consent. Silence cannot be read as implied consent either.

So even if both people are drunk, if Person A believes they were raped that doesn't mean they weren't just because Person B was also drunk and maybe doesn't remember what happens. Even if Person B believes it was consensual, if Person A was drunk they legally couldn't have agreed anyway.

I think OP is getting at what if A and B are drunk, and both claim rape? That rarely happens, and we can't speculate on what the correct assumption is because it's a hypothetical. Each situation is different, but on a whole it's wise for everyone to not sleep with drunk people.

I am in full agreement with the bolded.

This article expresses my thoughts on the subject much more eloquently than I can. It's long though.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/relationships/sex-on-campus-how-no-means-no-became-yes-means-yes/article21598708/

Again, we are back to consent, a verbal yes, not a lack of a no. That makes perfect sense. And actually, most of the encounters I've had in my life, especially when drunk, the guy has asked me, are you ok with this, are you too drunk, or similar wording. Which is smart for them, and respectful.

I would recommend not reading the comments.

TrixieJess · July 2015

huskypuppy14 said:

kkitkat79 said:

huskypuppy14 said:

redoryx said:

A person legally cannot give consent while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. That's an indisputable fact, there is no grey area here. It doesn't matter if they are passed out, if the person is drunk they cannot give consent. Silence cannot be read as implied consent either.

So even if both people are drunk, if Person A believes they were raped that doesn't mean they weren't just because Person B was also drunk and maybe doesn't remember what happens. Even if Person B believes it was consensual, if Person A was drunk they legally couldn't have agreed anyway.

I think OP is getting at what if A and B are drunk, and both claim rape? That rarely happens, and we can't speculate on what the correct assumption is because it's a hypothetical. Each situation is different, but on a whole it's wise for everyone to not sleep with drunk people.

I am in full agreement with the bolded.

This article expresses my thoughts on the subject much more eloquently than I can. It's long though.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/relationships/sex-on-campus-how-no-means-no-became-yes-means-yes/article21598708/

Again, we are back to consent, a verbal yes, not a lack of a no. That makes perfect sense. And actually, most of the encounters I've had in my life, especially when drunk, the guy has asked me, are you ok with this, are you too drunk, or similar wording. Which is smart for them, and respectful.

I would recommend not reading the comments.

Never read the Globe's comments, I swear the average commentator is rural, white, and over 50 with less than a high school education. It's sad because the Globe usually has good articles.

sarahufl · July 2015

TrixieJess said:

kkitkat79 said:

huskypuppy14 said:

redoryx said:

A person legally cannot give consent while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. That's an indisputable fact, there is no grey area here. It doesn't matter if they are passed out, if the person is drunk they cannot give consent. Silence cannot be read as implied consent either.

So even if both people are drunk, if Person A believes they were raped that doesn't mean they weren't just because Person B was also drunk and maybe doesn't remember what happens. Even if Person B believes it was consensual, if Person A was drunk they legally couldn't have agreed anyway.

I think OP is getting at what if A and B are drunk, and both claim rape? That rarely happens, and we can't speculate on what the correct assumption is because it's a hypothetical. Each situation is different, but on a whole it's wise for everyone to not sleep with drunk people.

I am in full agreement with the bolded.

This article expresses my thoughts on the subject much more eloquently than I can. It's long though.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/relationships/sex-on-campus-how-no-means-no-became-yes-means-yes/article21598708/

Again, we are back to consent, a verbal yes, not a lack of a no. That makes perfect sense. And actually, most of the encounters I've had in my life, especially when drunk, the guy has asked me, are you ok with this, are you too drunk, or similar wording. Which is smart for them, and respectful.

I would recommend not reading the comments.
Never read the Globe's comments, I swear the average commentator is rural, white, and over 50 with less than a high school education. It's sad because the Globe usually has good articles.

Great article. I think one of the things that stuck out to me the most was this part: "Why do we wait until teenagers have arrived at university, and are in the middle of the most exciting, jam-packed and sleep-deprived week of their lives, before we seriously educate them about consent? According to Scott Anderson, a UBC researcher who studies consent, it all goes back to how conflicted society is about granting young people – especially young women – the permission to have sex at all. “They have enough information to know that birth control is important,” he says, “but other aspects are much less clearly explained, because there is still a hesitation to say, ‘Sex is okay.’"

Sex education (from an early age) needs to include this idea- that you need to say yes to something. Not that you will die of STDs if you have sex (which is pretty much what we were taught), but that sex is natural and fun- but only if you want it.

But yeah, also- don't sleep with drunk people.

mbross3 · July 2015

PP's have done a great job addressing the consent issues this post raised, so I will just say this:

Investigation doesn't stop at DRUNK. I think people tend to forget that it's the DA who chooses whether to press charges and whom to press charges against. Individuals, victims, alleged victims, they don't "press charges", only the DA presses charges. Even if both parties claim they were raped, if an investigation leads police or the local DA to believe that one party held even a touch more power than the other (this can by physical, mental, emotional, based on prior history/relationship, whatever) than that is the person who will be charged with rape. Regardless of gender. I work for a Public Defender's Office. We actually see this more than you would think. Obviously we represent the party who is actually charged, and if we can gather enough evidence that there was no improper power balance, the case gets dismissed. However, that rarely happens. The DA will never (or almost never) charge both parties involved with a sexual assault. The rationale is that, in order to charge the crime there has to be a power imbalance. Even in situations where both parties are drunk, there could still be a power imbalance that makes one party more culpable than the other.

Follow up: what if they both are drunk?

Re: Follow up: what if they both are drunk?

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