NWR Question for lawyers or anyone in the medical field

Teddy917 · October 2015

I've tried googling it and I can't find an answer. Does anyone know if it is legal for a doctor to refuse to see a patient due to a criminal record?

lyndausvi · October 2015

I'm not a lawyer.

To my knowledge, a doctor in private practice is just like any small business and can refuse treatment to just about anyone except for discrimination. And discrimination depends on their field. Meaning a GYN can refuse treatment of a black male since their practice handles women issues not male issues. Or at least that is how I understand it.

If the criminal record has to do with drug use, I can see where a private practice doctor wouldn't want to treat that patient. Too much liability.

ER doctors can not refuses service if it's an emergency. They are only obligated to stabilize the patient though.

I believe private doctors can not just refuse service to someone walking into their office with a life threatening issue either. I could be wrong, but I think like ER doctors, they are required to get the patient at least stabilized.

I'm sure it varies from state to state though.

ETA - apparently it's okay for doctors to refuse treating patients who are or married to malpractice lawyers. So they are not just picking on criminals.

jacques27 · October 2015

Teddy917 said:

I've tried googling it and I can't find an answer. Does anyone know if it is legal for a doctor to refuse to see a patient due to a criminal record?

The first link I got when googling the highlighted verbatim was the AMA.

https://www.ama-assn.org/ssl3/ecomm/PolicyFinderForm.pl?site=www.ama-assn.org&uri=/resources/html/PolicyFinder/policyfiles/HnE/E-10.05.HTM

You may want to poke around the AMA some more, but based on that, it appears that yes, a doctor can refuse in that instance, unless other exceptions apply.

Also, see point VI.

https://www.ama-assn.org/ssl3/ecomm/PolicyFinderForm.pl?site=www.ama-assn.org&uri=/resources/html/PolicyFinder/policyfiles/HnE/E-1.001.HTM

Teddy917 · October 2015

Thanks. Unfortunately it looks like that'll make it harder to find medical treatment for my husband. But I appreciate that you guys took the time to help me see that his doctor was okay to drop him.

STARMOON44 · October 2015

Why is his criminal record even coming up though?

Teddy917 · October 2015

He told the psychologist about it.

jacques27 · October 2015

So is it his medical doctor or his psychologist who dropped him? In the U.S., medical doctors are guided by the AMA principles, licensed psychologists are guided by the APA (http://www.apa.org/ethics/code/index.aspx ). You could also peruse your state statutes for your medical and psychology boards.

That said, APA also lists the protected classes, and to the best of my knowledge "person with a criminal record" is not a protected class. I know that for psychologists, they have to suggest/refer to other resources when terminating the therapeutic relationship, so presumably they've suggested to him other LPs who would not have an issue treating him.

And are you attending the therapy session with him? Did the LP tell YOU personally why they are terminating the relationship or is that what he assumes because the timing coincided with when he divulged that information? It is possible that it's coincidental. Or it created a conflict of interest (for example, the incident resulting in the record involved another person or a business and they realized they have a personal or professional relationship with that person/business). Or it created a situation where they realize they could not effectively treat him (they don't have as much experience in a certain area of expertise or it raised a personal bias with them they know they cannot handle - like if the offense was a DUI and they had a family member who was killed in a DUI auto accident). They also can terminate if there is fear for their safety. LPs are to try set aside all personal biases they can, but they are also human and when they identify that they cannot be effective in treating an individual are supposed to refer them to someone else.

These are mostly rhetorical questions - not asking you to divulge his history here or what his therapist said specifically. Just pointing out that you may not know the entire story there (or they might have just given a blanket reason because of personal reasons, but it's not as nefarious as "You're a criminal and I don't treat criminals") and just because one psychologist has ended the relationship doesn't necessarily mean you're going to run into trouble finding psychologists who will treat him. But unlike medical doctors, there is much more of a patient/psychology match factor that happens. It really is not unusual to go through quite a few psychologists and treatment styles before finding one that is a good match.

Teddy917 · October 2015

Both doctors dropped him. I was at half of the last appointment. They didn't tell him anything until he called to reschedule the next appointment. They knew about the criminal record before they agreed to treat him. The therapist refused to refer him anywhere else. The crime was a domestic violence issue.

Sorry if it's a little unorganized but my thoughts are all over the place.

lyndausvi · October 2015

Teddy917 said:

Both doctors dropped him. I was at half of the last appointment. They didn't tell him anything until he called to reschedule the next appointment. They knew about the criminal record before they agreed to treat him. The therapist refused to refer him anywhere else. The crime was a domestic violence issue. Sorry if it's a little unorganized but my thoughts are all over the place.

I think they have to refer him somewhere else. I would check your state laws though. There should be some sort of malpractice hotline for the state you can call.

It might be a case where the doctor was a direct or indirect victim of domestic violence. Which sucks for you, but is understandable why they would not think they could effectively help your husband.

southernbelle0915 · October 2015

Yes, I think they can. Now, he can't be refused at the emergency room (google EMTALA) if he actually has an emergency.

But for routine care in an outpatient setting, providers can decide to only take certain kinds of insurance, only see certain types of patients (i.e. an OB could only see pregnant/postpartum female patients), discharge patients for violence or noncompliance, decide not to take any new patients at all..... So yea, they're not required by law to treat any old Joe. Especially if the patient has a violent criminal record. I sure wouldn't put myself or my office staff at risk if I were a physician.

STARMOON44 · October 2015

Teddy917 said:
Both doctors dropped him. I was at half of the last appointment. They didn't tell him anything until he called to reschedule the next appointment. They knew about the criminal record before they agreed to treat him. The therapist refused to refer him anywhere else. The crime was a domestic violence issue.

Sorry if it's a little unorganized but my thoughts are all over the place.

Are you getting therapy yourself? Because describing domestic violence as an "issue" sounds like you're doing a pretty good job at denial.

Teddy917 · October 2015

STARMOON44 said:

Teddy917 said:
Both doctors dropped him. I was at half of the last appointment. They didn't tell him anything until he called to reschedule the next appointment. They knew about the criminal record before they agreed to treat him. The therapist refused to refer him anywhere else. The crime was a domestic violence issue.

Sorry if it's a little unorganized but my thoughts are all over the place.

Are you getting therapy yourself? Because describing domestic violence as an "issue" sounds like you're doing a pretty good job at denial.

I did receive some counseling right after it first happened. I'm not in denial. I just am really bad at phrasing things when I'm upset. I know domestic violence is a lot more serious than a mere issue.

MairePoppy · October 2015

Teddy917 - is the psychologist aslo monitoring your husband for substance abuse issues? I feel like there's something he's not telling you.

Teddy917 · October 2015

scribe95 said:
I gotta wonder if he is telling you everything for both doctors to suddenly drop him - especially a psychologist who is supposed to get to the bottom of issues like anger and domestic violence.

His brother (whose house he was at when he received the call) heard it too, because my husband had the phone on speaker.

Plus I almost always go to appointments with him and have always had a good relationship with his doctors in the past. They always let me know if there is a problem.

Teddy917 · October 2015

MairePoppy said:
Teddy917 - is the psychologist aslo monitoring your husband for substance abuse issues? I feel like there's something he's not telling you.

Yes. There are no substance abuse problems.

justsie · October 2015

Teddy917 said:

I gotta wonder if he is telling you everything for both doctors to suddenly drop him - especially a psychologist who is supposed to get to the bottom of issues like anger and domestic violence.
His brother (whose house he was at when he received the call) heard it too, because my husband had the phone on speaker. Plus I almost always go to appointments with him and have always had a good relationship with his doctors in the past. They always let me know if there is a problem.

Hopefully only if your husband consented, or else that is a HUGE HIPPA violation.....

I agree with other PP's, something else is going on here.

Teddy917 · October 2015

justsie said:

Teddy917 said:

I gotta wonder if he is telling you everything for both doctors to suddenly drop him - especially a psychologist who is supposed to get to the bottom of issues like anger and domestic violence.
His brother (whose house he was at when he received the call) heard it too, because my husband had the phone on speaker.

Plus I almost always go to appointments with him and have always had a good relationship with his doctors in the past. They always let me know if there is a problem.

Hopefully only if your husband consented, or else that is a HUGE HIPPA violation.....

I agree with other PP's, something else is going on here.

He has given his consent.

chloe97 · October 2015

lyndausvi said:

Teddy917 said:

Both doctors dropped him. I was at half of the last appointment. They didn't tell him anything until he called to reschedule the next appointment. They knew about the criminal record before they agreed to treat him. The therapist refused to refer him anywhere else. The crime was a domestic violence issue. Sorry if it's a little unorganized but my thoughts are all over the place.

I think they have to refer him somewhere else. I would check your state laws though. There should be some sort of malpractice hotline for the state you can call.

It might be a case where the doctor was a direct or indirect victim of domestic violence. Which sucks for you, but is understandable why they would not think they could effectively help your husband.

PPs mostly have it covered, per the AMA Code of Ethics when severing a relationship with a patient for whatever reason, the physician should refer the patient to another provider within 30 days. However, this is not a requirement by state boards of medicine that leads to disciplinary action that I am aware of and we should be clear that psychologists are NOT physicians and therefore subject to their own professional standards.

All this said, this all sounds fishy to me. I couldn't see a mental health professional dismissing a patient unless they were truly worried about the safety of their staff. I suppose it is possible that the psychologist doesn't feel comfortable treating the particularly condition that your H is dealing with. That would make more sense than the criminal aspect.

Teddy917 · October 2015

chloe97 said:

lyndausvi said:

Teddy917 said:

Both doctors dropped him. I was at half of the last appointment. They didn't tell him anything until he called to reschedule the next appointment. They knew about the criminal record before they agreed to treat him. The therapist refused to refer him anywhere else. The crime was a domestic violence issue.

Sorry if it's a little unorganized but my thoughts are all over the place.

I think they have to refer him somewhere else. I would check your state laws though. There should be some sort of malpractice hotline for the state you can call.

It might be a case where the doctor was a direct or indirect victim of domestic violence. Which sucks for you, but is understandable why they would not think they could effectively help your husband.

PPs mostly have it covered, per the AMA Code of Ethics when severing a relationship with a patient for whatever reason, the physician should refer the patient to another provider within 30 days. However, this is not a requirement by state boards of medicine that leads to disciplinary action that I am aware of and we should be clear that psychologists are NOT physicians and therefore subject to their own professional standards.

All this said, this all sounds fishy to me. I couldn't see a mental health professional dismissing a patient unless they were truly worried about the safety of their staff. I suppose it is possible that the psychologist doesn't feel comfortable treating the particularly condition that your H is dealing with. That would make more sense than the criminal aspect.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks something's fishy.

And I'm glad to know what the rules are for severing a doctor/patient relationship. Im definitely going to call them this week and ask them to refer him to someone.

STARMOON44 · October 2015

Teddy917 said:

chloe97 said:

lyndausvi said:

Teddy917 said:

Both doctors dropped him. I was at half of the last appointment. They didn't tell him anything until he called to reschedule the next appointment. They knew about the criminal record before they agreed to treat him. The therapist refused to refer him anywhere else. The crime was a domestic violence issue.

Sorry if it's a little unorganized but my thoughts are all over the place.

I think they have to refer him somewhere else. I would check your state laws though. There should be some sort of malpractice hotline for the state you can call.

It might be a case where the doctor was a direct or indirect victim of domestic violence. Which sucks for you, but is understandable why they would not think they could effectively help your husband.

PPs mostly have it covered, per the AMA Code of Ethics when severing a relationship with a patient for whatever reason, the physician should refer the patient to another provider within 30 days. However, this is not a requirement by state boards of medicine that leads to disciplinary action that I am aware of and we should be clear that psychologists are NOT physicians and therefore subject to their own professional standards.

All this said, this all sounds fishy to me. I couldn't see a mental health professional dismissing a patient unless they were truly worried about the safety of their staff. I suppose it is possible that the psychologist doesn't feel comfortable treating the particularly condition that your H is dealing with. That would make more sense than the criminal aspect.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks something's fishy.

And I'm glad to know what the rules are for severing a doctor/patient relationship. Im definitely going to call them this week and ask them to refer him to someone.

I think something is fishy with your husband, not the doctors. And he should be the one getting the referrals, not you.

lyndausvi · October 2015

How many sessions did he have before they gave him the boot.

justsie · October 2015

STARMOON44 said:

lyndausvi said:

Teddy917 said:

Both doctors dropped him. I was at half of the last appointment. They didn't tell him anything until he called to reschedule the next appointment. They knew about the criminal record before they agreed to treat him. The therapist refused to refer him anywhere else. The crime was a domestic violence issue. Sorry if it's a little unorganized but my thoughts are all over the place.

I think they have to refer him somewhere else. I would check your state laws though. There should be some sort of malpractice hotline for the state you can call.

It might be a case where the doctor was a direct or indirect victim of domestic violence. Which sucks for you, but is understandable why they would not think they could effectively help your husband.

PPs mostly have it covered, per the AMA Code of Ethics when severing a relationship with a patient for whatever reason, the physician should refer the patient to another provider within 30 days. However, this is not a requirement by state boards of medicine that leads to disciplinary action that I am aware of and we should be clear that psychologists are NOT physicians and therefore subject to their own professional standards.

All this said, this all sounds fishy to me. I couldn't see a mental health professional dismissing a patient unless they were truly worried about the safety of their staff. I suppose it is possible that the psychologist doesn't feel comfortable treating the particularly condition that your H is dealing with. That would make more sense than the criminal aspect.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks something's fishy. And I'm glad to know what the rules are for severing a doctor/patient relationship. Im definitely going to call them this week and ask them to refer him to someone.
I think something is fishy with your husband, not the doctors. And he should be the one getting the referrals, not you.

This. The doctor and psychologist don't have to give any referrals to you, you are not their patient.

Teddy917 · October 2015

Yeah. Sorry, I meant that I would have my husband get referrals from them. Words are hard today.

Teddy917 · October 2015

lyndausvi said:
How many sessions did he have before they gave him the boot.

This one was actually a new one. The appointment that he had was his first. It was his second that he had to cancel.

Teddy917 · October 2015

STARMOON44 said:

Teddy917 said:

chloe97 said:

lyndausvi said:

Teddy917 said:

Both doctors dropped him. I was at half of the last appointment. They didn't tell him anything until he called to reschedule the next appointment. They knew about the criminal record before they agreed to treat him. The therapist refused to refer him anywhere else. The crime was a domestic violence issue.

Sorry if it's a little unorganized but my thoughts are all over the place.

I think they have to refer him somewhere else. I would check your state laws though. There should be some sort of malpractice hotline for the state you can call.

It might be a case where the doctor was a direct or indirect victim of domestic violence. Which sucks for you, but is understandable why they would not think they could effectively help your husband.

PPs mostly have it covered, per the AMA Code of Ethics when severing a relationship with a patient for whatever reason, the physician should refer the patient to another provider within 30 days. However, this is not a requirement by state boards of medicine that leads to disciplinary action that I am aware of and we should be clear that psychologists are NOT physicians and therefore subject to their own professional standards.

All this said, this all sounds fishy to me. I couldn't see a mental health professional dismissing a patient unless they were truly worried about the safety of their staff. I suppose it is possible that the psychologist doesn't feel comfortable treating the particularly condition that your H is dealing with. That would make more sense than the criminal aspect.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks something's fishy.

And I'm glad to know what the rules are for severing a doctor/patient relationship. Im definitely going to call them this week and ask them to refer him to someone.

I think something is fishy with your husband, not the doctors. And he should be the one getting the referrals, not you.

I appreciate the feedback. I'm curious what you think is fishy about my husband.

STARMOON44 · October 2015

Teddy917 said:

STARMOON44 said:

Teddy917 said:

chloe97 said:

lyndausvi said:

Teddy917 said:

Both doctors dropped him. I was at half of the last appointment. They didn't tell him anything until he called to reschedule the next appointment. They knew about the criminal record before they agreed to treat him. The therapist refused to refer him anywhere else. The crime was a domestic violence issue.

Sorry if it's a little unorganized but my thoughts are all over the place.

I think they have to refer him somewhere else. I would check your state laws though. There should be some sort of malpractice hotline for the state you can call.

It might be a case where the doctor was a direct or indirect victim of domestic violence. Which sucks for you, but is understandable why they would not think they could effectively help your husband.

PPs mostly have it covered, per the AMA Code of Ethics when severing a relationship with a patient for whatever reason, the physician should refer the patient to another provider within 30 days. However, this is not a requirement by state boards of medicine that leads to disciplinary action that I am aware of and we should be clear that psychologists are NOT physicians and therefore subject to their own professional standards.

All this said, this all sounds fishy to me. I couldn't see a mental health professional dismissing a patient unless they were truly worried about the safety of their staff. I suppose it is possible that the psychologist doesn't feel comfortable treating the particularly condition that your H is dealing with. That would make more sense than the criminal aspect.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks something's fishy.

And I'm glad to know what the rules are for severing a doctor/patient relationship. Im definitely going to call them this week and ask them to refer him to someone.

I think something is fishy with your husband, not the doctors. And he should be the one getting the referrals, not you.

I appreciate the feedback. I'm curious what you think is fishy about my husband.

The fact that he has been convicted of some sort of domestic violence, still needs treatment for whatever issue he claims caused that, and now conveniently has someone else to blame for not getting that treatment. I don't believe his doctor dropped him solely because of his criminal record, I believe there is absolutely something else going on, and your entire description of this situation reeks of excuses and denial.

PrettyGirlLost · October 2015

STARMOON44 said:

lyndausvi said:

Teddy917 said:

Both doctors dropped him. I was at half of the last appointment. They didn't tell him anything until he called to reschedule the next appointment. They knew about the criminal record before they agreed to treat him. The therapist refused to refer him anywhere else. The crime was a domestic violence issue. Sorry if it's a little unorganized but my thoughts are all over the place.

I think they have to refer him somewhere else. I would check your state laws though. There should be some sort of malpractice hotline for the state you can call.

It might be a case where the doctor was a direct or indirect victim of domestic violence. Which sucks for you, but is understandable why they would not think they could effectively help your husband.

PPs mostly have it covered, per the AMA Code of Ethics when severing a relationship with a patient for whatever reason, the physician should refer the patient to another provider within 30 days. However, this is not a requirement by state boards of medicine that leads to disciplinary action that I am aware of and we should be clear that psychologists are NOT physicians and therefore subject to their own professional standards.

All this said, this all sounds fishy to me. I couldn't see a mental health professional dismissing a patient unless they were truly worried about the safety of their staff. I suppose it is possible that the psychologist doesn't feel comfortable treating the particularly condition that your H is dealing with. That would make more sense than the criminal aspect.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks something's fishy. And I'm glad to know what the rules are for severing a doctor/patient relationship. Im definitely going to call them this week and ask them to refer him to someone.
I think something is fishy with your husband, not the doctors. And he should be the one getting the referrals, not you.
I appreciate the feedback. I'm curious what you think is fishy about my husband.
The fact that he has been convicted of some sort of domestic violence, still needs treatment for whatever issue he claims caused that, and now conveniently has someone else to blame for not getting that treatment. I don't believe his doctor dropped him solely because of his criminal record, I believe there is absolutely something else going on, and your entire description of this situation reeks of excuses and denial.

Doesn't he also have some form of brain damage or disability, or am I confusing him with someone else?

I ask because if that's the case, then certain behaviors and issues are likely going to be permanent, lifelong issues, and not something counseling can necessarily completely resolve over time.

KatWAG · October 2015

PrettyGirlLost said:

STARMOON44 said:

lyndausvi said:

Teddy917 said:

Both doctors dropped him. I was at half of the last appointment. They didn't tell him anything until he called to reschedule the next appointment. They knew about the criminal record before they agreed to treat him. The therapist refused to refer him anywhere else. The crime was a domestic violence issue. Sorry if it's a little unorganized but my thoughts are all over the place.

I think they have to refer him somewhere else. I would check your state laws though. There should be some sort of malpractice hotline for the state you can call.

It might be a case where the doctor was a direct or indirect victim of domestic violence. Which sucks for you, but is understandable why they would not think they could effectively help your husband.

PPs mostly have it covered, per the AMA Code of Ethics when severing a relationship with a patient for whatever reason, the physician should refer the patient to another provider within 30 days. However, this is not a requirement by state boards of medicine that leads to disciplinary action that I am aware of and we should be clear that psychologists are NOT physicians and therefore subject to their own professional standards.

All this said, this all sounds fishy to me. I couldn't see a mental health professional dismissing a patient unless they were truly worried about the safety of their staff. I suppose it is possible that the psychologist doesn't feel comfortable treating the particularly condition that your H is dealing with. That would make more sense than the criminal aspect.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks something's fishy. And I'm glad to know what the rules are for severing a doctor/patient relationship. Im definitely going to call them this week and ask them to refer him to someone.
I think something is fishy with your husband, not the doctors. And he should be the one getting the referrals, not you.
I appreciate the feedback. I'm curious what you think is fishy about my husband.
The fact that he has been convicted of some sort of domestic violence, still needs treatment for whatever issue he claims caused that, and now conveniently has someone else to blame for not getting that treatment. I don't believe his doctor dropped him solely because of his criminal record, I believe there is absolutely something else going on, and your entire description of this situation reeks of excuses and denial.

Doesn't he also have some form of brain damage or disability, or am I confusing him with someone else?

I ask because if that's the case, then certain behaviors and issues are likely going to be permanent, lifelong issues, and not something counseling can necessarily completely resolve over time.

**Removed for TOS Violation**

justsie · October 2015

Reading back through those made me concerned that his "impulsivity" and emotional abuse had actually turned physical, so the DV is a little more current then OP made it out to be. It also seems like OP didn't ever get counseling/therapy of her own, which is sad.

Having a brain injury that means someone is more likely to act impulsively could be the reason he was dropped from his psychologist, they may have realized they cannot provide someone who is unable to stop and process with appropriate therapy. That also means that they will have a hard time providing referrals of someone that can, that's a pretty nitche thing. People in the MH field only have to attempt to refer to appropriate alteranitves, given this information one might not exist.

STARMOON44 · October 2015

Oh that's right. He's the guy who punched her in the face and damaged her eye so badly she can't drive, but it's somehow acceptable because he was "sleeping" and has mental health issues.

Idk if you're real and just like the attention on here from time to time, or a bored troll, but you shouldn't be married to this man and you know it.

FiancB · October 2015

Bear in mind, I am not a psych, so I don't know if they really do pick and choose...

But I think one goes into the mental health field knowing that they may be dealing with people with major issues. I have worked with a pedophile, with ex drug dealers, addicts, and people with violent behaviors that they were not in control of. Of course there are branches where people specialize more according to their interests and may not see these sorts of issues much, but I'm guessing he would have ended up with someone general and comfortable with it in the first place. I have a really hard time seeing someone drop a client because of known issues turning out to be... known.

Things that will get you dropped:

Drug abuse (for example I have an Adderall Rx, if they found out I was selling it they'd drop me like a hot potato)

Maybe not utilizing given resources and treatment and being determined to be somewhat of a lost cause, at least in that setting?

Incompatibility, like if the patient becomes obsessed with the professional or for some other irreconcilable reason the pro/patient relationship is not working out.

There's something he's not telling you. It may be as innocuous as just not wanting to go, but it's something. Just because he's consented to HIPAA in the past does not mean he does to everything.

NWR Question for lawyers or anyone in the medical field

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