Asking to set aside Thanksgiving food w/o dairy?

madamerwin · November 2015

Man, some of these fad diet picky eaters would really piss me off! The only person I see regularly who has dietary restrictions is my sister... She's lactose intolerant, so 90% of the time she will ask if something has dairy in it (and if so, decline it). But the other 10% of the time she just says "screw it, I'll take lactose pills." That usually happens when I make some baked good that she can't resist, or on holidays like Thanksgiving.

But when I know she is coming over, I just use vegan butter-like spread and milk substitute when possible, just so she can enjoy the food without consequences.

knottie2b256f5c2ae42586 · November 2015

@themosthappy91 I haven't received any pushback from MIL. She's been very sweet and accommodating. We had homemade pizza the last time we were at her house and she set aside my own (smaller) pizza dough portion so I could make my own with whatever I wanted sans cheese.

@cgss11: I'm totally NOT concerned with an entrée. I will either bring my own or eat a ton of sides. I wouldn't expect her to have a vegan/vegetarian version of something like stuffing or this weird yam dish she makes and everyone loves (corn flakes, condensed milk...idk!). With me bringing a couple smaller dishes, I will have a bunch to eat; it just won't be a typical Thanksgiving dinner and that's ok with me.

Last year FI and I made a mostly vegan Thanksgiving dinner. He had a pork roast and potatoes with dairy in them, but I made sweet potato casserole, green bean casserole, Caesar salad, rolls and mushroom gravy all vegan. He enjoyed them and they tasted better than I remember traditional recipes tasting, but I think part of that was because they were all from scratch.

Jen4948 · November 2015

MairePoppy said:
As the usual Thanksgiving dinner host, I'd rather know about guests dietary needs before I cook the dinner, rather than find out, at the dinner table, that a guest won't be able to eat most of the dishes. If you're just weaning yourself off dairy, could you allow your MIL a little wiggle room for this Thanksgiving. By all means, ask if she can set aside a scoop of mashed potatoes for you. I don't mind doing stuff like that for my guests.

I have to bitch now. This has nothing to do with you, Jax. I have one extremely picky holiday guests, whose dietary needs/wants/likes/dislikes are ever changing. She really pisses me off when she announces she can't eat the apple pie that she ate last year, unless they were made with organic apples, flour etc...one holiday she needs decaf tea, the next year she needs real coffee because she read about the caffeine removal process. After drinking diet coke for years, she's sworn off whatever kind of sweetener that's in regular diet coke. She can't eat her pie, unless it's warm and has ice cream - which can't be any vanilla based flavor because vanilla make her gag. She ask for items she doesn't see on the table - salt substitue, raw sugar, lemon wedges, local honey. ARGGGGHHHHHH!

Sorry about that. I feel better now.

I don't blame you for being pissed about all of this person's expectations. She sounds like she expects you to be a short-order cook with ESP.

What's she like aside from food issues? Is she just as fussy? Just out of curiosity, have you ever told her that you can't accommodate them? If so, how did she respond? Do you have to invite her and her SO every time, or can you leave them off your guest list?

Kahlyla · November 2015

cgss11 said:

Ahh yes, forgot about that and jello. I was thinking rolls might have some type of milk in them, perhaps not though.

They might, but it's definitely not a given. Many breads are completely dairy-free as a matter of course, and amazing crusty bread can be made with nothing but flour, water, yeast, and salt. Ultra-soft enriched breads might be made with eggs, butter, and/or milk, but it would be very easy to get vegan bread or rolls.

We cook stuffing in the turkey but always have an extra casserole dish of it on the side as well (because stuffing is awesome) - I would usually baste it with some juices but could skip that part and use olive oil exclusively with no butter (I pre-saute onions and celery a bit before adding them to the stuffing) if I wanted to make vegan stuffing (and would watch the bread I used). A girlfriend of mine adds an egg to her stuffing but it's not necessary.

MairePoppy · November 2015

Jen4948 said:

As the usual Thanksgiving dinner host, I'd rather know about guests dietary needs before I cook the dinner, rather than find out, at the dinner table, that a guest won't be able to eat most of the dishes. If you're just weaning yourself off dairy, could you allow your MIL a little wiggle room for this Thanksgiving. By all means, ask if she can set aside a scoop of mashed potatoes for you. I don't mind doing stuff like that for my guests.

I have to bitch now. This has nothing to do with you, Jax. I have one extremely picky holiday guests, whose dietary needs/wants/likes/dislikes are ever changing. She really pisses me off when she announces she can't eat the apple pie that she ate last year, unless they were made with organic apples, flour etc...one holiday she needs decaf tea, the next year she needs real coffee because she read about the caffeine removal process. After drinking diet coke for years, she's sworn off whatever kind of sweetener that's in regular diet coke. She can't eat her pie, unless it's warm and has ice cream - which can't be any vanilla based flavor because vanilla make her gag. She ask for items she doesn't see on the table - salt substitue, raw sugar, lemon wedges, local honey. ARGGGGHHHHHH!

Sorry about that. I feel better now.
I don't blame you for being pissed about all of this person's expectations. She sounds like she expects you to be a short-order cook with ESP. What's she like aside from food issues? Is she just as fussy? Just out of curiosity, have you ever told her that you can't accommodate them? If so, how did she respond? Do you have to invite her and her SO every time, or can you leave them off your guest list?

She's generally a miserable person. She makes comments that leave my family members with their mouths hanging open.

I have told her I'm not preparing certain dishes that she has suggested, but she can bring them if she likes. She usually brings those things in huge amounts. But she'll make request for some odd item when she gets here. It's very strange.

Yes, they must be invited to thetwo major holiday dinners - Thanksgiving and Christmas, which I host. Our husbands are close, as they are 2 of 3 survivors in the family. We don't have contact with #3.

She has never hosted a holiday at her home. One year she announced that she would like to invite us all to a Cinqo de Mayo dinner. A few days after, she called to ask me if she could use my home for her party because she doesn't have enough space, dishes etc.....I declined. The party was cancelled.

jenna8984 · November 2015

@mairepoppy I've mentioned this before I think but I once ended a friendship over a blueberry muffin. I was living across the country and this high school friend came to visit me. The entire time she did nothing but bitch. I had the wrong peanut butter, I had the wrong milk, my A/C wasn't high enough, on and on and on. Finally on the last day we went out and grabbed breakfast and she bitched that she could tell the blueberries in her muffin were frozen and not fresh. I lost my shit and yelled at her about what an obnoxious complainer she was and that she was never welcome to come back.

MairePoppy · November 2015

Jen4948 said:

As the usual Thanksgiving dinner host, I'd rather know about guests dietary needs before I cook the dinner, rather than find out, at the dinner table, that a guest won't be able to eat most of the dishes. If you're just weaning yourself off dairy, could you allow your MIL a little wiggle room for this Thanksgiving. By all means, ask if she can set aside a scoop of mashed potatoes for you. I don't mind doing stuff like that for my guests.

I have to bitch now. This has nothing to do with you, Jax. I have one extremely picky holiday guests, whose dietary needs/wants/likes/dislikes are ever changing. She really pisses me off when she announces she can't eat the apple pie that she ate last year, unless they were made with organic apples, flour etc...one holiday she needs decaf tea, the next year she needs real coffee because she read about the caffeine removal process. After drinking diet coke for years, she's sworn off whatever kind of sweetener that's in regular diet coke. She can't eat her pie, unless it's warm and has ice cream - which can't be any vanilla based flavor because vanilla make her gag. She ask for items she doesn't see on the table - salt substitue, raw sugar, lemon wedges, local honey. ARGGGGHHHHHH!

Sorry about that. I feel better now.
I don't blame you for being pissed about all of this person's expectations. She sounds like she expects you to be a short-order cook with ESP. What's she like aside from food issues? Is she just as fussy? Just out of curiosity, have you ever told her that you can't accommodate them? If so, how did she respond? Do you have to invite her and her SO every time, or can you leave them off your guest list?

She's generally a miserable person. She makes comments that leave my family members with their mouths hanging open.

I have told her I'm not preparing certain dishes that she has suggested, but she can bring them if she likes. She usually brings those things. But she'll make a request for some odd item when she gets here. It's very strange.

Yes, they must be invited to thetwo major holiday dinners - Thanksgiving and Christmas, which I host. Our husbands are two of three surviving family members. We have no contact with the third one. I do it for my husband.

She's never hosted a holiday dinner. Once, she invited everyone for a Cinco de Mayo dinner. She called me a few days later to ask if she could host at my home because she didn't have enough space, dishes, serveware. I declined. The party was cancelled.

MairePoppy · November 2015

jenna8984 said:

@mairepoppy I've mentioned this before I think but I once ended a friendship over a blueberry muffin. I was living across the country and this high school friend came to visit me. The entire time she did nothing but bitch. I had the wrong peanut butter, I had the wrong milk, my A/C wasn't high enough, on and on and on. Finally on the last day we went out and grabbed breakfast and she bitched that she could tell the blueberries in her muffin were frozen and not fresh. I lost my shit and yelled at her about what an obnoxious complainer she was and that she was never welcome to come back.

Yep, you get it. She doens't happen to be from Arizona, does she?

Jen4948 · November 2015

MairePoppy said:

Jen4948 said:

As the usual Thanksgiving dinner host, I'd rather know about guests dietary needs before I cook the dinner, rather than find out, at the dinner table, that a guest won't be able to eat most of the dishes. If you're just weaning yourself off dairy, could you allow your MIL a little wiggle room for this Thanksgiving. By all means, ask if she can set aside a scoop of mashed potatoes for you. I don't mind doing stuff like that for my guests.

I have to bitch now. This has nothing to do with you, Jax. I have one extremely picky holiday guests, whose dietary needs/wants/likes/dislikes are ever changing. She really pisses me off when she announces she can't eat the apple pie that she ate last year, unless they were made with organic apples, flour etc...one holiday she needs decaf tea, the next year she needs real coffee because she read about the caffeine removal process. After drinking diet coke for years, she's sworn off whatever kind of sweetener that's in regular diet coke. She can't eat her pie, unless it's warm and has ice cream - which can't be any vanilla based flavor because vanilla make her gag. She ask for items she doesn't see on the table - salt substitue, raw sugar, lemon wedges, local honey. ARGGGGHHHHHH!

Sorry about that. I feel better now.
I don't blame you for being pissed about all of this person's expectations. She sounds like she expects you to be a short-order cook with ESP. What's she like aside from food issues? Is she just as fussy? Just out of curiosity, have you ever told her that you can't accommodate them? If so, how did she respond? Do you have to invite her and her SO every time, or can you leave them off your guest list?

She's generally a miserable person. She makes comments that leave my family members with their mouths hanging open.

I have told her I'm not preparing certain dishes that she has suggested, but she can bring them if she likes. She usually brings those things. But she'll make a request for some odd item when she gets here. It's very strange.

Yes, they must be invited to thetwo major holiday dinners - Thanksgiving and Christmas, which I host. Our husbands are two of three surviving family members. We have no contact with the third one. I do it for my husband.

She's never hosted a holiday dinner. Once, she invited everyone for a Cinco de Mayo dinner. She called me a few days later to ask if she could host at my home because she didn't have enough space, dishes, serveware. I declined. The party was cancelled.

Maybe you need to start a new holiday tradition that doesn't involve you hosting family dinners!

TNDancer · November 2015

I have a suggestion- What if you just provide vegan butter, milk, etc? I assume these don't taste super different from the normal. I know if you put that in my fridge a few days before Thanksgiving, I would just make all the potatoes with the substitutes. I don't think anyone else would actually notice with so much food that day.

ryanandjoe4 · November 2015

TNDancer said:

I have a suggestion- What if you just provide vegan butter, milk, etc? I assume these don't taste super different from the normal. I know if you put that in my fridge a few days before Thanksgiving, I would just make all the potatoes with the substitutes. I don't think anyone else would actually notice with so much food that day.

As a non vegan/vegetarian, who loves her some home cooked buttery potatoes, I wouldn't want to have to make something for everyone who isn't vegan or vegetarian just for one person. I would happily set aside a few portions, and make them with the substitutes they provided (or let me know would work if I had them on hand or get them with the rest of my shopping). I am a big lover of butter, and bad for you foods, these holidays coming up are the times that I enjoy them the most, I would be upset as a guest if the food is made with substitutes for everyone, when it would be easy to just make the one guest with restrictions a portion of their own.

Maggie0829 · November 2015

ryanandjoe4 said:

TNDancer said:

I have a suggestion- What if you just provide vegan butter, milk, etc? I assume these don't taste super different from the normal. I know if you put that in my fridge a few days before Thanksgiving, I would just make all the potatoes with the substitutes. I don't think anyone else would actually notice with so much food that day.

As a non vegan/vegetarian, who loves her some home cooked buttery potatoes, I wouldn't want to have to make something for everyone who isn't vegan or vegetarian just for one person. I would happily set aside a few portions, and make them with the substitutes they provided (or let me know would work if I had them on hand or get them with the rest of my shopping). I am a big lover of butter, and bad for you foods, these holidays coming up are the times that I enjoy them the most, I would be upset as a guest if the food is made with substitutes for everyone, when it would be easy to just make the one guest with restrictions a portion of their own.

So much this. To say that people won't notice the difference between vegan butter and regular butter is a bad assumption. Those of us who love butter and other "made from animal" products would definitely notice a difference. Especially on a holiday that is all about food and that you look forward to all year. And please don't tell me these vegan substitutes taste just as good as the regular stuff because that is like telling me eating a cup of strawberries is just as great a substitute and just as fulfilling as a bowl of ice cream.

I am all for people choosing a diet that fits their lifestyle, beliefs and dietary restrictions, but if only one person out of a whole group holds those beliefs then you don't make a whole menu vegan but rather have a few options that give that one person ample food to eat but allowing everyone else to eat the things that they like too.

knottie2b256f5c2ae42586 · November 2015

Yeah, I'm just bringing my own "condiments" and going from there. I would never expect FMIL to prepare the dishes vegan for EVERYONE just because of ME. That would be awkward.

JediElizabeth · November 2015

Maggie0829 said:

ryanandjoe4 said:

TNDancer said:

I have a suggestion- What if you just provide vegan butter, milk, etc? I assume these don't taste super different from the normal. I know if you put that in my fridge a few days before Thanksgiving, I would just make all the potatoes with the substitutes. I don't think anyone else would actually notice with so much food that day.

As a non vegan/vegetarian, who loves her some home cooked buttery potatoes, I wouldn't want to have to make something for everyone who isn't vegan or vegetarian just for one person. I would happily set aside a few portions, and make them with the substitutes they provided (or let me know would work if I had them on hand or get them with the rest of my shopping). I am a big lover of butter, and bad for you foods, these holidays coming up are the times that I enjoy them the most, I would be upset as a guest if the food is made with substitutes for everyone, when it would be easy to just make the one guest with restrictions a portion of their own.

So much this. To say that people won't notice the difference between vegan butter and regular butter is a bad assumption. Those of us who love butter and other "made from animal" products would definitely notice a difference. Especially on a holiday that is all about food and that you look forward to all year. And please don't tell me these vegan substitutes taste just as good as the regular stuff because that is like telling me eating a cup of strawberries is just as great a substitute and just as fulfilling as a bowl of ice cream.

I am all for people choosing a diet that fits their lifestyle, beliefs and dietary restrictions, but if only one person out of a whole group holds those beliefs then you don't make a whole menu vegan but rather have a few options that give that one person ample food to eat but allowing everyone else to eat the things that they like too.

>>>>>BOXES<<<<<

On the other hand:
I actually do this, and it's a nonissue. Almond milk instead of cows milk & SmartBalance olive oil spread (which is vegan) instead of butter, and everyone's always seemed very happy.

Not only do I get compliments, but I've learned to make twice as much mashed potatoes and sweet potatoes as my mom did, because that's the only way I'll have leftovers of my favorite sides. AND I know my guests are getting healthier meals than they otherwise would.

The important thing about this though: I've been cooking this way for years. I would never host with these recipes without trying them out a few times first. Almond milk is sweet, for example, so the potatoes taste better if you use a bit less than regular milk. It may be too late in the season to experiment with those kind of changes now. It may be a good suggestion for next year, though.

ETA: I add this as a carnivore. My turkey gets basted with butter, because if you're in for a penny, you're in for a pound. But I've found that as long as they don't require cheese, almost all my other dishes can be customized with some experimentation. I AM from the Northeast, though, so I've never actually had corn casserole, never mind tried to veganize it.

Maggie0829 · November 2015

JediElizabeth said:

ryanandjoe4 said:

TNDancer said:

I have a suggestion- What if you just provide vegan butter, milk, etc? I assume these don't taste super different from the normal. I know if you put that in my fridge a few days before Thanksgiving, I would just make all the potatoes with the substitutes. I don't think anyone else would actually notice with so much food that day.

As a non vegan/vegetarian, who loves her some home cooked buttery potatoes, I wouldn't want to have to make something for everyone who isn't vegan or vegetarian just for one person. I would happily set aside a few portions, and make them with the substitutes they provided (or let me know would work if I had them on hand or get them with the rest of my shopping). I am a big lover of butter, and bad for you foods, these holidays coming up are the times that I enjoy them the most, I would be upset as a guest if the food is made with substitutes for everyone, when it would be easy to just make the one guest with restrictions a portion of their own.

So much this. To say that people won't notice the difference between vegan butter and regular butter is a bad assumption. Those of us who love butter and other "made from animal" products would definitely notice a difference. Especially on a holiday that is all about food and that you look forward to all year. And please don't tell me these vegan substitutes taste just as good as the regular stuff because that is like telling me eating a cup of strawberries is just as great a substitute and just as fulfilling as a bowl of ice cream.

I am all for people choosing a diet that fits their lifestyle, beliefs and dietary restrictions, but if only one person out of a whole group holds those beliefs then you don't make a whole menu vegan but rather have a few options that give that one person ample food to eat but allowing everyone else to eat the things that they like too.
>>>>>BOXES<<<<< On the other hand: I actually do this, and it's a nonissue. Almond milk instead of cows milk & SmartBalance olive oil spread (which is vegan) instead of butter, and everyone's always seemed very happy. Not only do I get compliments, but I've learned to make twice as much mashed potatoes and sweet potatoes as my mom did, because that's the only way I'll have leftovers of my favorite sides. AND I know my guests are getting healthier meals than they otherwise would. The important thing about this though: I've been cooking this way for years. I would never host with these recipes without trying them out a few times first. Almond milk is sweet, for example, so the potatoes taste better if you use a bit less than regular milk. It may be too late in the season to experiment with those kind of changes now. It may be a good suggestion for next year, though. ETA: I add this as a carnivore. My turkey gets basted with butter, because if you're in for a penny, you're in for a pound. But I've found that as long as they don't require cheese, almost all my other dishes can be customized with some experimentation. I AM from the Northeast, though, so I've never actually had corn casserole, never mind tried to veganize it.

The bolded irks me a bit.

And it is great that people love your mashed potatoes made with almond milk and olive oil spread. I am sure it is tasty. But that doesn't mean that they still may prefer mashed potatoes made with butter and cows milk. I mean potatoes are awesome and you have to do a lot to muck them up to the point where I won't eat them. But I still prefer my potatoes with butter and cows milk even though I may also enjoy yours.

emmaaa · November 2015

Maggie0829 said:

JediElizabeth said:

ryanandjoe4 said:

TNDancer said:

I have a suggestion- What if you just provide vegan butter, milk, etc? I assume these don't taste super different from the normal. I know if you put that in my fridge a few days before Thanksgiving, I would just make all the potatoes with the substitutes. I don't think anyone else would actually notice with so much food that day.

As a non vegan/vegetarian, who loves her some home cooked buttery potatoes, I wouldn't want to have to make something for everyone who isn't vegan or vegetarian just for one person. I would happily set aside a few portions, and make them with the substitutes they provided (or let me know would work if I had them on hand or get them with the rest of my shopping). I am a big lover of butter, and bad for you foods, these holidays coming up are the times that I enjoy them the most, I would be upset as a guest if the food is made with substitutes for everyone, when it would be easy to just make the one guest with restrictions a portion of their own.

So much this. To say that people won't notice the difference between vegan butter and regular butter is a bad assumption. Those of us who love butter and other "made from animal" products would definitely notice a difference. Especially on a holiday that is all about food and that you look forward to all year. And please don't tell me these vegan substitutes taste just as good as the regular stuff because that is like telling me eating a cup of strawberries is just as great a substitute and just as fulfilling as a bowl of ice cream.

I am all for people choosing a diet that fits their lifestyle, beliefs and dietary restrictions, but if only one person out of a whole group holds those beliefs then you don't make a whole menu vegan but rather have a few options that give that one person ample food to eat but allowing everyone else to eat the things that they like too.
>>>>>BOXES<<<<< On the other hand: I actually do this, and it's a nonissue. Almond milk instead of cows milk & SmartBalance olive oil spread (which is vegan) instead of butter, and everyone's always seemed very happy. Not only do I get compliments, but I've learned to make twice as much mashed potatoes and sweet potatoes as my mom did, because that's the only way I'll have leftovers of my favorite sides. AND I know my guests are getting healthier meals than they otherwise would. The important thing about this though: I've been cooking this way for years. I would never host with these recipes without trying them out a few times first. Almond milk is sweet, for example, so the potatoes taste better if you use a bit less than regular milk. It may be too late in the season to experiment with those kind of changes now. It may be a good suggestion for next year, though. ETA: I add this as a carnivore. My turkey gets basted with butter, because if you're in for a penny, you're in for a pound. But I've found that as long as they don't require cheese, almost all my other dishes can be customized with some experimentation. I AM from the Northeast, though, so I've never actually had corn casserole, never mind tried to veganize it.

The bolded irks me a bit.

And it is great that people love your mashed potatoes made with almond milk and olive oil spread. I am sure it is tasty. But that doesn't mean that they still may prefer mashed potatoes made with butter and cows milk. I mean potatoes are awesome and you have to do a lot to muck them up to the point where I won't eat them. But I still prefer my potatoes with butter and cows milk even though I may also enjoy yours.

I agree. Honestly, it is no ones business or job to make sure I eat healthy. If I'm eating potatoes, I generally just count that as my non-healthy protion for the day.

simcal18 · November 2015

emmaaa said:

Maggie0829 said:

JediElizabeth said:

ryanandjoe4 said:

TNDancer said:

I have a suggestion- What if you just provide vegan butter, milk, etc? I assume these don't taste super different from the normal. I know if you put that in my fridge a few days before Thanksgiving, I would just make all the potatoes with the substitutes. I don't think anyone else would actually notice with so much food that day.

As a non vegan/vegetarian, who loves her some home cooked buttery potatoes, I wouldn't want to have to make something for everyone who isn't vegan or vegetarian just for one person. I would happily set aside a few portions, and make them with the substitutes they provided (or let me know would work if I had them on hand or get them with the rest of my shopping). I am a big lover of butter, and bad for you foods, these holidays coming up are the times that I enjoy them the most, I would be upset as a guest if the food is made with substitutes for everyone, when it would be easy to just make the one guest with restrictions a portion of their own.

So much this. To say that people won't notice the difference between vegan butter and regular butter is a bad assumption. Those of us who love butter and other "made from animal" products would definitely notice a difference. Especially on a holiday that is all about food and that you look forward to all year. And please don't tell me these vegan substitutes taste just as good as the regular stuff because that is like telling me eating a cup of strawberries is just as great a substitute and just as fulfilling as a bowl of ice cream.

I am all for people choosing a diet that fits their lifestyle, beliefs and dietary restrictions, but if only one person out of a whole group holds those beliefs then you don't make a whole menu vegan but rather have a few options that give that one person ample food to eat but allowing everyone else to eat the things that they like too.

>>>>>BOXES<<<<<

On the other hand:
I actually do this, and it's a nonissue. Almond milk instead of cows milk & SmartBalance olive oil spread (which is vegan) instead of butter, and everyone's always seemed very happy.

Not only do I get compliments, but I've learned to make twice as much mashed potatoes and sweet potatoes as my mom did, because that's the only way I'll have leftovers of my favorite sides. AND I know my guests are getting healthier meals than they otherwise would.

The important thing about this though: I've been cooking this way for years. I would never host with these recipes without trying them out a few times first. Almond milk is sweet, for example, so the potatoes taste better if you use a bit less than regular milk. It may be too late in the season to experiment with those kind of changes now. It may be a good suggestion for next year, though.

ETA: I add this as a carnivore. My turkey gets basted with butter, because if you're in for a penny, you're in for a pound. But I've found that as long as they don't require cheese, almost all my other dishes can be customized with some experimentation. I AM from the Northeast, though, so I've never actually had corn casserole, never mind tried to veganize it.

The bolded irks me a bit.

And it is great that people love your mashed potatoes made with almond milk and olive oil spread. I am sure it is tasty. But that doesn't mean that they still may prefer mashed potatoes made with butter and cows milk. I mean potatoes are awesome and you have to do a lot to muck them up to the point where I won't eat them. But I still prefer my potatoes with butter and cows milk even though I may also enjoy yours.

I agree. Honestly, it is no ones business or job to make sure I eat healthy. If I'm eating potatoes, I generally just count that as my non-healthy protion for the day.

************ugggh boxes**************

Yep. Plus frankly Smart Balance and other margarines are fucking horrible for you. Many have a ton of trans fats. Potatoes made with almond milk and margarine are no "healthier" for you than ones made with milk and butter. I'm guessing the calorie counts come out pretty similar, and if anything the milk and butter ones have fewer processed ingredients.

Yes, the almond and margarine ones are vegan, but almonds take a ton of water to grow (and many are grown in California where there's a drought going on right now and water is precious), so you could argue ethically they're a wash as well.

The point is that everyone is entitled to make their own dietary choices, whether based on health, ethics, taste, or whatever. But those are individual choices, and I wouldn't appreciate being pushed to eat "healthier" by someone else, especially (1) on Thanksgiving, and (2) when the food isn't actually healthier.

MairePoppy · November 2015

bostonbride2015 said:
************ugggh boxes************** Yep. Plus frankly Smart Balance and other margarines are fucking horrible for you. Many have a ton of trans fats. Potatoes made with almond milk and margarine are no "healthier" for you than ones made with milk and butter. I'm guessing the calorie counts come out pretty similar, and if anything the milk and butter ones have fewer processed ingredients. Yes, the almond and margarine ones are vegan, but almonds take a ton of water to grow (and many are grown in California where there's a drought going on right now and water is precious), so you could argue ethically they're a wash as well. The point is that everyone is entitled to make their own dietary choices, whether based on health, ethics, taste, or whatever. But those are individual choices, and I wouldn't appreciate being pushed to eat "healthier" by someone else, especially (1) on Thanksgiving, and (2) when the food isn't actually healthier.

And they taste fucking horrible, too. I don't mind setting aside food for a guest to doctor up however she wishes. I'll buy I Can't believe It's Not Butter and CoolWhip if I know someone can't have dairy. But I'm not giving up butter, milk, cream and I have the buns to prove that. I support anyone's choice to eat however they wish, including my guests who look forward to an indulgent, guilt free meal.

thisismynickname2 · November 2015

So, wait. To the last few posts regarding those who may use different ingredients in their food anyway...

If I choose to host any kind of dinner party, I'm choosing my core menu and recipes, period. I will make accommodations for those who need it. But, if my core cooking choices include substitutes for regular milk and butter, then I think my guests would accept that. Not because I'm pushing them into something that might be healthier or more ethical (debatable based on prior posts), but because that's how I like to cook anyway.

When I go to my friends homes, I don't ask them what is in their food, because I have no dietary restrictions. If one person makes a vegan chili and it tastes awesome, then great. If another person makes a chili with meat and it tastes awesome, then great. I'm not going to chose going to one friend's house over another because I prefer one chili dish over the other.

If there are no dietary restrictions, then I think beggars can't be choosers, as the saying goes.

Maggie0829 · November 2015

thisismynickname said:

So, wait. To the last few posts regarding those who may use different ingredients in their food anyway...

If I choose to host any kind of dinner party, I'm choosing my core menu and recipes, period. I will make accommodations for those who need it. But, if my core cooking choices include substitutes for regular milk and butter, then I think my guests would accept that. Not because I'm pushing them into something that might be healthier or more ethical (debatable based on prior posts), but because that's how I like to cook anyway.

When I go to my friends homes, I don't ask them what is in their food, because I have no dietary restrictions. If one person makes a vegan chili and it tastes awesome, then great. If another person makes a chili with meat and it tastes awesome, then great. I'm not going to chose going to one friend's house over another because I prefer one chili dish over the other.
If there are no dietary restrictions, then I think beggars can't be choosers, as the saying goes.

Oh I have no problem if people make mashed potatoes different then me. Doesn't mean that I won't find theirs tasty. I bet they are super tasty. But that doesn't mean that I don't also prefer my potatoes over their potatoes. Doesn't mean that I am not going to eat their potatoes because they don't use the ingredients I use. Just means I have a preference, so if they asked I would say "I would rather potatoes be made with milk and butter" but if they just made the potatoes then I would eat them happily. Because potatoes.

What I think most people have issue with in regards to the the last few posts is when one poster stated something along the lines of "and I know that they are getting a healthier meal because of the ingredients I use." I don't care if someone uses almond milk and olive oil spread to make potatoes. If that is how they do it and enjoy it then good on them. But I do have a problem with people using those things as a way to control how "healthy" I eat, because apparently they think on a regular basis I eat horribly.

julieanne912 · November 2015

I'm of the opinion that if I'm making the effort, and spending the money, to put on a Thanksgiving dinner, then the guests who come should eat what's served, unless there are actual medical reasons not to. I have a cousin who is severely lactose intolerant for anything dairy related, including butter, and has been diagnosed as such. So, when they come, they bring their own mashed potatoes and other items that might normally include ingredients that he can't have. They've never once asked the host to "set aside" portions for them without dairy. I make rolls without dairy as well since that's an easy enough accommodation and dairy free bread is still good. To ask someone who is putting in the work to do the dinner (and it's A LOT of work, especially for a group larger than 8 or so), to follow every restriction you put in place for yourself just because you feel like it, is rude, in my opinion.

ETA: And in my opinion, saying you don't eat certain things for moral reasons, is implying the people who do eat those things are immoral. Not exactly something you should bring up at the Thanksgiving table with your FI's family.

simcal18 · November 2015

thisismynickname said:

So, wait. To the last few posts regarding those who may use different ingredients in their food anyway...

If I choose to host any kind of dinner party, I'm choosing my core menu and recipes, period. I will make accommodations for those who need it. But, if my core cooking choices include substitutes for regular milk and butter, then I think my guests would accept that. Not because I'm pushing them into something that might be healthier or more ethical (debatable based on prior posts), but because that's how I like to cook anyway.

When I go to my friends homes, I don't ask them what is in their food, because I have no dietary restrictions. If one person makes a vegan chili and it tastes awesome, then great. If another person makes a chili with meat and it tastes awesome, then great. I'm not going to chose going to one friend's house over another because I prefer one chili dish over the other.
If there are no dietary restrictions, then I think beggars can't be choosers, as the saying goes.

Yes, if you are hosting a dinner party, then you are entitled to serve any food that you wish, ethical/healthy/tasty or not. And guests should accept that food graciously and without complaint. I think what bothered people about this post was the implication that the poster was trying to push "healthier" food on people on Thanksgiving, where (1) you have a somewhat more captive audience than your typical dinner party, (2) this holiday more than any other is unabashedly about delicious food, and (3) the alternative she was describing is actually no healthier than the original by most reasonable measures.

Plus, people (myself chief among them) tend to get super picky and protective of their Thanksgiving food. I've been bringing my own stuffing to my MIL's hosted Thanksgiving for 4 years now. There's nothing WRONG with her stuffing per se, but it's not my mom's stuffing, which is what Thanksgiving tastes like to me. There's all sorts of complex emotional connotations associated with Thanksgiving food.

Also, butter is delicious.

julieanne912 · November 2015

Maggie0829 said:

JediElizabeth said:

ryanandjoe4 said:

TNDancer said:

I have a suggestion- What if you just provide vegan butter, milk, etc? I assume these don't taste super different from the normal. I know if you put that in my fridge a few days before Thanksgiving, I would just make all the potatoes with the substitutes. I don't think anyone else would actually notice with so much food that day.

As a non vegan/vegetarian, who loves her some home cooked buttery potatoes, I wouldn't want to have to make something for everyone who isn't vegan or vegetarian just for one person. I would happily set aside a few portions, and make them with the substitutes they provided (or let me know would work if I had them on hand or get them with the rest of my shopping). I am a big lover of butter, and bad for you foods, these holidays coming up are the times that I enjoy them the most, I would be upset as a guest if the food is made with substitutes for everyone, when it would be easy to just make the one guest with restrictions a portion of their own.

So much this. To say that people won't notice the difference between vegan butter and regular butter is a bad assumption. Those of us who love butter and other "made from animal" products would definitely notice a difference. Especially on a holiday that is all about food and that you look forward to all year. And please don't tell me these vegan substitutes taste just as good as the regular stuff because that is like telling me eating a cup of strawberries is just as great a substitute and just as fulfilling as a bowl of ice cream.

I am all for people choosing a diet that fits their lifestyle, beliefs and dietary restrictions, but if only one person out of a whole group holds those beliefs then you don't make a whole menu vegan but rather have a few options that give that one person ample food to eat but allowing everyone else to eat the things that they like too.
>>>>>BOXES<<<<< On the other hand: I actually do this, and it's a nonissue. Almond milk instead of cows milk & SmartBalance olive oil spread (which is vegan) instead of butter, and everyone's always seemed very happy. Not only do I get compliments, but I've learned to make twice as much mashed potatoes and sweet potatoes as my mom did, because that's the only way I'll have leftovers of my favorite sides. AND I know my guests are getting healthier meals than they otherwise would. The important thing about this though: I've been cooking this way for years. I would never host with these recipes without trying them out a few times first. Almond milk is sweet, for example, so the potatoes taste better if you use a bit less than regular milk. It may be too late in the season to experiment with those kind of changes now. It may be a good suggestion for next year, though. ETA: I add this as a carnivore. My turkey gets basted with butter, because if you're in for a penny, you're in for a pound. But I've found that as long as they don't require cheese, almost all my other dishes can be customized with some experimentation. I AM from the Northeast, though, so I've never actually had corn casserole, never mind tried to veganize it.

The bolded irks me a bit.

And it is great that people love your mashed potatoes made with almond milk and olive oil spread. I am sure it is tasty. But that doesn't mean that they still may prefer mashed potatoes made with butter and cows milk. I mean potatoes are awesome and you have to do a lot to muck them up to the point where I won't eat them. But I still prefer my potatoes with butter and cows milk even though I may also enjoy yours.

This, and not to get into a separate debate here, but who says almond milk and olive oil spread (which likely has a lot of crap in it too) is "healthier" than regular whole milk and regular butter? A lot of that is subjective, so saying your guests are eating healthier because of the substitutions is your opinion only, not fact.

emmaaa · November 2015

bostonbride2015 said:

thisismynickname said:

So, wait. To the last few posts regarding those who may use different ingredients in their food anyway...

If I choose to host any kind of dinner party, I'm choosing my core menu and recipes, period. I will make accommodations for those who need it. But, if my core cooking choices include substitutes for regular milk and butter, then I think my guests would accept that. Not because I'm pushing them into something that might be healthier or more ethical (debatable based on prior posts), but because that's how I like to cook anyway.

When I go to my friends homes, I don't ask them what is in their food, because I have no dietary restrictions. If one person makes a vegan chili and it tastes awesome, then great. If another person makes a chili with meat and it tastes awesome, then great. I'm not going to chose going to one friend's house over another because I prefer one chili dish over the other.
If there are no dietary restrictions, then I think beggars can't be choosers, as the saying goes.

Yes, if you are hosting a dinner party, then you are entitled to serve any food that you wish, ethical/healthy/tasty or not. And guests should accept that food graciously and without complaint. I think what bothered people about this post was the implication that the poster was trying to push "healthier" food on people on Thanksgiving, where (1) you have a somewhat more captive audience than your typical dinner party, (2) this holiday more than any other is unabashedly about delicious food, and (3) the alternative she was describing is actually no healthier than the original by most reasonable measures.

Plus, people (myself chief among them) tend to get super picky and protective of their Thanksgiving food. I've been bringing my own stuffing to my MIL's hosted Thanksgiving for 4 years now. There's nothing WRONG with her stuffing per se, but it's not my mom's stuffing, which is what Thanksgiving tastes like to me. There's all sorts of complex emotional connotations associated with Thanksgiving food.

Also, butter is delicious.

julieanne912 · November 2015

emmaaa said:

bostonbride2015 said:

thisismynickname said:

So, wait. To the last few posts regarding those who may use different ingredients in their food anyway...

If I choose to host any kind of dinner party, I'm choosing my core menu and recipes, period. I will make accommodations for those who need it. But, if my core cooking choices include substitutes for regular milk and butter, then I think my guests would accept that. Not because I'm pushing them into something that might be healthier or more ethical (debatable based on prior posts), but because that's how I like to cook anyway.

When I go to my friends homes, I don't ask them what is in their food, because I have no dietary restrictions. If one person makes a vegan chili and it tastes awesome, then great. If another person makes a chili with meat and it tastes awesome, then great. I'm not going to chose going to one friend's house over another because I prefer one chili dish over the other.
If there are no dietary restrictions, then I think beggars can't be choosers, as the saying goes.

Yes, if you are hosting a dinner party, then you are entitled to serve any food that you wish, ethical/healthy/tasty or not. And guests should accept that food graciously and without complaint. I think what bothered people about this post was the implication that the poster was trying to push "healthier" food on people on Thanksgiving, where (1) you have a somewhat more captive audience than your typical dinner party, (2) this holiday more than any other is unabashedly about delicious food, and (3) the alternative she was describing is actually no healthier than the original by most reasonable measures.

Plus, people (myself chief among them) tend to get super picky and protective of their Thanksgiving food. I've been bringing my own stuffing to my MIL's hosted Thanksgiving for 4 years now. There's nothing WRONG with her stuffing per se, but it's not my mom's stuffing, which is what Thanksgiving tastes like to me. There's all sorts of complex emotional connotations associated with Thanksgiving food.

Also, butter is delicious.

Dude, my grocery store has butter on extreme sale this week. I bought 4lbs so far and might go back for more. Loves me some butter.

Maggie0829 · November 2015

julieanne912 said:

emmaaa said:

bostonbride2015 said:

thisismynickname said:

So, wait. To the last few posts regarding those who may use different ingredients in their food anyway...

If I choose to host any kind of dinner party, I'm choosing my core menu and recipes, period. I will make accommodations for those who need it. But, if my core cooking choices include substitutes for regular milk and butter, then I think my guests would accept that. Not because I'm pushing them into something that might be healthier or more ethical (debatable based on prior posts), but because that's how I like to cook anyway.

When I go to my friends homes, I don't ask them what is in their food, because I have no dietary restrictions. If one person makes a vegan chili and it tastes awesome, then great. If another person makes a chili with meat and it tastes awesome, then great. I'm not going to chose going to one friend's house over another because I prefer one chili dish over the other.
If there are no dietary restrictions, then I think beggars can't be choosers, as the saying goes.

Yes, if you are hosting a dinner party, then you are entitled to serve any food that you wish, ethical/healthy/tasty or not. And guests should accept that food graciously and without complaint. I think what bothered people about this post was the implication that the poster was trying to push "healthier" food on people on Thanksgiving, where (1) you have a somewhat more captive audience than your typical dinner party, (2) this holiday more than any other is unabashedly about delicious food, and (3) the alternative she was describing is actually no healthier than the original by most reasonable measures.

Plus, people (myself chief among them) tend to get super picky and protective of their Thanksgiving food. I've been bringing my own stuffing to my MIL's hosted Thanksgiving for 4 years now. There's nothing WRONG with her stuffing per se, but it's not my mom's stuffing, which is what Thanksgiving tastes like to me. There's all sorts of complex emotional connotations associated with Thanksgiving food.

Also, butter is delicious.

Dude, my grocery store has butter on extreme sale this week. I bought 4lbs so far and might go back for more. Loves me some butter.

One time I was talking to a neighbor about random shit and they said that they had to throw out two sticks of butter because they went bad. I never knew that butter could go bad. How is that even possible? I go through sticks of butter like I go through chocolate ice cream, which is to say ridiculously fast.

julieanne912 · November 2015

Maggie0829 said:

julieanne912 said:

emmaaa said:

bostonbride2015 said:

thisismynickname said:

So, wait. To the last few posts regarding those who may use different ingredients in their food anyway...

If I choose to host any kind of dinner party, I'm choosing my core menu and recipes, period. I will make accommodations for those who need it. But, if my core cooking choices include substitutes for regular milk and butter, then I think my guests would accept that. Not because I'm pushing them into something that might be healthier or more ethical (debatable based on prior posts), but because that's how I like to cook anyway.

When I go to my friends homes, I don't ask them what is in their food, because I have no dietary restrictions. If one person makes a vegan chili and it tastes awesome, then great. If another person makes a chili with meat and it tastes awesome, then great. I'm not going to chose going to one friend's house over another because I prefer one chili dish over the other.
If there are no dietary restrictions, then I think beggars can't be choosers, as the saying goes.

Yes, if you are hosting a dinner party, then you are entitled to serve any food that you wish, ethical/healthy/tasty or not. And guests should accept that food graciously and without complaint. I think what bothered people about this post was the implication that the poster was trying to push "healthier" food on people on Thanksgiving, where (1) you have a somewhat more captive audience than your typical dinner party, (2) this holiday more than any other is unabashedly about delicious food, and (3) the alternative she was describing is actually no healthier than the original by most reasonable measures.

Plus, people (myself chief among them) tend to get super picky and protective of their Thanksgiving food. I've been bringing my own stuffing to my MIL's hosted Thanksgiving for 4 years now. There's nothing WRONG with her stuffing per se, but it's not my mom's stuffing, which is what Thanksgiving tastes like to me. There's all sorts of complex emotional connotations associated with Thanksgiving food.

Also, butter is delicious.

Dude, my grocery store has butter on extreme sale this week. I bought 4lbs so far and might go back for more. Loves me some butter.

One time I was talking to a neighbor about random shit and they said that they had to throw out two sticks of butter because they went bad. I never knew that butter could go bad. How is that even possible? I go through sticks of butter like I go through chocolate ice cream, which is to say ridiculously fast.

Uh yeah that butter must have been old as shit for it to go bad. I always have a stick in a container out on the counter, plus so many extras in the fridge.

MesmrEwe · November 2015

Events with the IL's are nothing short of "short order cooking"... We have... Milk protein sensitivities/lactose intolerance, celiac's, one who fluctuates on the latest fad diet (in the past 10 years, there's been vegetarian, vegan, only organic chicken for protein, fish only, back to veggie burgers, no processed sugars, etc.) to the point we can't keep track of what they will/won't eat, ginger allergies, banana allergies, pepper intolerances, corn sensitivities, instant anaphylactic level nut allergies... Oh, and I don't eat turkey - I just can't do it! (I give thanks I don't have to shove that **** into me!). BUT, what's annoying as HE** is MIL's insistence that we can't just go to a restaurant we know can manage the "food rules" to eat for whatever holiday it happens to be and just tip REALLY well..

But you know, it comes down to simply - be a gracious guest. Avoid the urge to crinkle the lip at something you can't eat/don't like, or that there isn't a lot of what you can eat, eat what you can, (or bring your own), and move on.

SO, OP, First, tell her that you're Vegan and what the "food rules" are, simple communication ASAP. Ask for her to set aside raw ingredients for you to doctor yourself (i.e. cooked potatoes - do not make work for her because you're likely the only person needing this adjustment), or you say repeatedly to yourself "isn't this dish I brought along the most wonderful thing on the planet, and I don't mind only eating this only!" thankful you've got something to eat...

themosthappy91 · November 2015

julieanne912 said:
I'm of the opinion that if I'm making the effort, and spending the money, to put on a Thanksgiving dinner, then the guests who come should eat what's served, unless there are actual medical reasons not to. I have a cousin who is severely lactose intolerant for anything dairy related, including butter, and has been diagnosed as such. So, when they come, they bring their own mashed potatoes and other items that might normally include ingredients that he can't have. They've never once asked the host to "set aside" portions for them without dairy. I make rolls without dairy as well since that's an easy enough accommodation and dairy free bread is still good. To ask someone who is putting in the work to do the dinner (and it's A LOT of work, especially for a group larger than 8 or so), to follow every restriction you put in place for yourself just because you feel like it, is rude, in my opinion.

ETA: And in my opinion, saying you don't eat certain things for moral reasons, is implying the people who do eat those things are immoral. Not exactly something you should bring up at the Thanksgiving table with your FI's family.

Strongly disagree with the bolded. Should they ask the chef to prepare something else for them based on a moral decision they imposed on themselves? No. But should they feel obligated to eat something that goes against their ethical beliefs and in all likelihood is physically repulsive to them? Absolutely not. I don't think it's rude at all for a vegan or vegetarian to simply pass on food that goes against their beliefs and I think it's crazy over-sensitive to take anyone's choice to not do something for ethical reasons as a personal condemnation of how you live your life

julieanne912 · November 2015

themosthappy91 said:

julieanne912 said:
I'm of the opinion that if I'm making the effort, and spending the money, to put on a Thanksgiving dinner, then the guests who come should eat what's served, unless there are actual medical reasons not to. I have a cousin who is severely lactose intolerant for anything dairy related, including butter, and has been diagnosed as such. So, when they come, they bring their own mashed potatoes and other items that might normally include ingredients that he can't have. They've never once asked the host to "set aside" portions for them without dairy. I make rolls without dairy as well since that's an easy enough accommodation and dairy free bread is still good. To ask someone who is putting in the work to do the dinner (and it's A LOT of work, especially for a group larger than 8 or so), to follow every restriction you put in place for yourself just because you feel like it, is rude, in my opinion.

ETA: And in my opinion, saying you don't eat certain things for moral reasons, is implying the people who do eat those things are immoral. Not exactly something you should bring up at the Thanksgiving table with your FI's family.
Strongly disagree with the bolded. Should they ask the chef to prepare something else for them based on a moral decision they imposed on themselves? No. But should they feel obligated to eat something that goes against their ethical beliefs and in all likelihood is physically repulsive to them? Absolutely not. I don't think it's rude at all for a vegan or vegetarian to simply pass on food that goes against their beliefs and I think it's crazy over-sensitive to take anyone's choice to not do something for ethical reasons as a personal condemnation of how you live your life

Sorry, my wording was a bit off. I'm saying that if you go to someone's house, and they are serving something you don't eat, it's rude to expect them to make you something separate just because you don't believe in eating what they're serving. I wouldn't expect someone to eat something they don't want to eat.

And, I know most families aren't like this, but if I decided to be vegan, and went to H's family holiday dinner (that his mom spends hours preparing) and say I don't eat mashed potatoes with butter in them, because it's against my morals, then I could expect some serious side-eye, for sure.

Asking to set aside Thanksgiving food w/o dairy?

Re: Asking to set aside Thanksgiving food w/o dairy?

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