Asking to set aside Thanksgiving food w/o dairy?

themosthappy91 · November 2015

julieanne912 said:

themosthappy91 said:

julieanne912 said:
I'm of the opinion that if I'm making the effort, and spending the money, to put on a Thanksgiving dinner, then the guests who come should eat what's served, unless there are actual medical reasons not to. I have a cousin who is severely lactose intolerant for anything dairy related, including butter, and has been diagnosed as such. So, when they come, they bring their own mashed potatoes and other items that might normally include ingredients that he can't have. They've never once asked the host to "set aside" portions for them without dairy. I make rolls without dairy as well since that's an easy enough accommodation and dairy free bread is still good. To ask someone who is putting in the work to do the dinner (and it's A LOT of work, especially for a group larger than 8 or so), to follow every restriction you put in place for yourself just because you feel like it, is rude, in my opinion.

ETA: And in my opinion, saying you don't eat certain things for moral reasons, is implying the people who do eat those things are immoral. Not exactly something you should bring up at the Thanksgiving table with your FI's family.
Strongly disagree with the bolded. Should they ask the chef to prepare something else for them based on a moral decision they imposed on themselves? No. But should they feel obligated to eat something that goes against their ethical beliefs and in all likelihood is physically repulsive to them? Absolutely not. I don't think it's rude at all for a vegan or vegetarian to simply pass on food that goes against their beliefs and I think it's crazy over-sensitive to take anyone's choice to not do something for ethical reasons as a personal condemnation of how you live your life
Sorry, my wording was a bit off. I'm saying that if you go to someone's house, and they are serving something you don't eat, it's rude to expect them to make you something separate just because you don't believe in eating what they're serving. I wouldn't expect someone to eat something they don't want to eat.

And, I know most families aren't like this, but if I decided to be vegan, and went to H's family holiday dinner (that his mom spends hours preparing) and say I don't eat mashed potatoes with butter in them, because it's against my morals, then I could expect some serious side-eye, for sure.

BOXBOXBOXBOXBOXBOXBOXBOX

Oh yeah, then I totally get what you are saying. Definitely wouldn't encourage people who choose to put restrictions on themselves, whether for the best of ethical reasons or the most obnoxious of diet fads, to impose their choices on their hosts.

As for the side-eye issue, honestly I think that just comes with the territory of any kind of food thing, whether it's a moral restriction, a pseudo-sciencey health concern or just being a picky eater.

TNDancer · November 2015

Strongly disagree with the bolded. Should they ask the chef to prepare something else for them based on a moral decision they imposed on themselves? No. But should they feel obligated to eat something that goes against their ethical beliefs and in all likelihood is physically repulsive to them? Absolutely not. I don't think it's rude at all for a vegan or vegetarian to simply pass on food that goes against their beliefs and I think it's crazy over-sensitive to take anyone's choice to not do something for ethical reasons as a personal condemnation of how you live your life

O man, this makes me think of Phoebe in Friends meeting Mike's parents and she eats the veal.

lc07 · November 2015

I believe that if one is hosting a meal and inviting guests, it is the host's responsibility to provide meals that meets their guests dietary needs. I don't care if they are moral, religious, medically necessary, or personal diet that stays consistent or that changes on a whim. As the host, if I invited you to my home for a meal, I want to create something you will enjoy eating. If I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't invite you over for a meal. And as a guest, if you don't want to provide a meal for me that I eat, do us all a favor and just don't invite me to dinner. Let's do something non-meal time. Our friendship doesn't have to end, let's just not host events that are meal centric.

PrettyGirlLost · November 2015

jenna8984 said:

GlamQueenBride said:

jenna8984 said:

You are not asking her to make entirely new or different dishes for you. You are asking that she puts aside one scoop of potatoes before she whips in butter/ cream. I personally think that is totally reasonable.

How do you even make potatoes without milk???

It's not like you boil the potatoes in milk. Boil them. Smash slightly. Scoop out 1-2 scoops and put in a side dish. Continue to the big pot as usual with milk & butter.....really not hard.

Those aren't mashed potatoes, though. They aren't going to have the correct consistency nor taste anywhere near anything other than mashed up starch.

julieanne912 · November 2015

lc07 said:
I believe that if one is hosting a meal and inviting guests, it is the host's responsibility to provide meals that meets their guests dietary needs. I don't care if they are moral, religious, medically necessary, or personal diet that stays consistent or that changes on a whim. As the host, if I invited you to my home for a meal, I want to create something you will enjoy eating. If I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't invite you over for a meal. And as a guest, if you don't want to provide a meal for me that I eat, do us all a favor and just don't invite me to dinner. Let's do something non-meal time. Our friendship doesn't have to end, let's just not host events that are meal centric.

So you're saying that if 1 guest out of 10 is a vegan, you shouldn't invite them to your home for a holiday just because you cannot make the food they choose to eat? That seems silly, especially when holidays usually involve family gatherings, not just friends hanging out for a casual dinner party. What is so wrong about the person who has the special needs to provide for themselves (and maybe bring a dish or two that they can share with everyone) instead of expecting a host to bend over backwards to please them?

thefanciestbeckler · November 2015

PrettyGirlLost · November 2015

thefanciestbeckler said:

But Sam, you need some sort of dairy- milk, butter, cream cheese, parm cheese- typically a combination of that list, for mashed potatoes to taste better than mashed starch, imo.

Maggie0829 · November 2015

PrettyGirlLost said:

thefanciestbeckler said:

But Sam, you need some sort of dairy- milk, butter, cream cheese, parm cheese- typically a combination of that list, for mashed potatoes to taste better than mashed starch, imo.

I am choking just thinking of eating a plain mashed boiled potatoes. Talk about dry and tasteless.

themosthappy91 · November 2015

lc07 said:
I believe that if one is hosting a meal and inviting guests, it is the host's responsibility to provide meals that meets their guests dietary needs. I don't care if they are moral, religious, medically necessary, or personal diet that stays consistent or that changes on a whim. As the host, if I invited you to my home for a meal, I want to create something you will enjoy eating. If I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't invite you over for a meal. And as a guest, if you don't want to provide a meal for me that I eat, do us all a favor and just don't invite me to dinner. Let's do something non-meal time. Our friendship doesn't have to end, let's just not host events that are meal centric.

I feel like the bolded goes against the rest of what you are saying. If I were to go with the common-denominator meal I would end up always serving very bland, plain food. Say I'm having my six closest friends over for dinner. One friend doesn't eat meat, so that's out... one friend can't digest dairy so none of that... one friend hates anything even mildly spicy so no spices... one friend is currently doing the no-carb thing, though who knows if she'll still be on that next time I see her because she tends to change up her dietary restrictions a lot... so i guess I'm serving plain, unseasoned tofu, which, while adhering to everyone's choices, actually pleases no one.

I'm all for hosts trying to be sensitive to people's food preferences and provide at least something (like a side dish) everyone will like, but it's not a responsibility.

lc07 · November 2015

@themosthappy91 and @julieanne912 Maybe I just don't see it as bending over backwards or really that hard.

My friends/family involves mostly "I'll eat anything" people, but also a vegetarian, a lactose intolerant person, two people who don't eat gluten, and one person who doesn't eat soy, gluten, dairy, or sugar. Rarely do I have with all of those people at the same time at my house. There have been times that I have had most of those folks over for dinner at the same time and when I have, I did serve things that some people cannot eat but I make sure I have enough things that they CAN eat to make a full meal. If it was too much of a PITA, no, I wouldn't host them for dinner. I think it's rude to invite someone for dinner but not cater to their dietary needs.

Jen4948 · November 2015

lc07 said:
@themosthappy91 and @julieanne912 Maybe I just don't see it as bending over backwards or really that hard.

My friends/family involves mostly "I'll eat anything" people, but also a vegetarian, a lactose intolerant person, two people who don't eat gluten, and one person who doesn't eat soy, gluten, dairy, or sugar. Rarely do I have with all of those people at the same time at my house. There have been times that I have had most of those folks over for dinner at the same time and when I have, I did serve things that some people cannot eat but I make sure I have enough things that they CAN eat to make a full meal. If it was too much of a PITA, no, I wouldn't host them for dinner. I think it's rude to invite someone for dinner but not cater to their dietary needs.

Up to a point. While I agree with you that it's gracious and appropriate for hosts to ask about dietary needs and host accordingly, I also think no guest has the right to expect their hosts to be short-order cooks-especially if their dietary issues are not medical in nature. While they should not be expected to eat anything that conflicts with their beliefs or medical conditions, neither should they make demands of their hosts to be served or not served specific foods unless they could go into anaphylactic shock or the like from exposure to those substances. It's not up to them to control the menus.

lc07 · November 2015

Jen4948 said:

lc07 said:
@themosthappy91 and @julieanne912 Maybe I just don't see it as bending over backwards or really that hard.

My friends/family involves mostly "I'll eat anything" people, but also a vegetarian, a lactose intolerant person, two people who don't eat gluten, and one person who doesn't eat soy, gluten, dairy, or sugar. Rarely do I have with all of those people at the same time at my house. There have been times that I have had most of those folks over for dinner at the same time and when I have, I did serve things that some people cannot eat but I make sure I have enough things that they CAN eat to make a full meal. If it was too much of a PITA, no, I wouldn't host them for dinner. I think it's rude to invite someone for dinner but not cater to their dietary needs.
Up to a point. While I agree with you that it's gracious and appropriate for hosts to ask about dietary needs and host accordingly, I also think no guest has the right to expect their hosts to be short-order cooks-especially if their dietary issues are not medical in nature. While they should not be expected to eat anything that conflicts with their beliefs or medical conditions, neither should they make demands of their hosts to be served or not served specific foods unless they could go into anaphylactic shock or the like from exposure to those substances. It's not up to them to control the menus.

I agree. As a guest, I'd never make demands about a menu. But if you invite me into your home for dinner and don't care that I can't eat what you're serving, that's perplexing to me and it changes our relationship.

Bottom line for me - As a host, I would NEVER invite someone over for a meal and then make something they cannot/will not eat. It makes no sense.

TheCheeseWench · November 2015

bostonbride2015 said:

thisismynickname said:

So, wait. To the last few posts regarding those who may use different ingredients in their food anyway...

If I choose to host any kind of dinner party, I'm choosing my core menu and recipes, period. I will make accommodations for those who need it. But, if my core cooking choices include substitutes for regular milk and butter, then I think my guests would accept that. Not because I'm pushing them into something that might be healthier or more ethical (debatable based on prior posts), but because that's how I like to cook anyway.

When I go to my friends homes, I don't ask them what is in their food, because I have no dietary restrictions. If one person makes a vegan chili and it tastes awesome, then great. If another person makes a chili with meat and it tastes awesome, then great. I'm not going to chose going to one friend's house over another because I prefer one chili dish over the other.
If there are no dietary restrictions, then I think beggars can't be choosers, as the saying goes.

Yes, if you are hosting a dinner party, then you are entitled to serve any food that you wish, ethical/healthy/tasty or not. And guests should accept that food graciously and without complaint. I think what bothered people about this post was the implication that the poster was trying to push "healthier" food on people on Thanksgiving, where (1) you have a somewhat more captive audience than your typical dinner party, (2) this holiday more than any other is unabashedly about delicious food, and (3) the alternative she was describing is actually no healthier than the original by most reasonable measures.

Plus, people (myself chief among them) tend to get super picky and protective of their Thanksgiving food. I've been bringing my own stuffing to my MIL's hosted Thanksgiving for 4 years now. There's nothing WRONG with her stuffing per se, but it's not my mom's stuffing, which is what Thanksgiving tastes like to me. There's all sorts of complex emotional connotations associated with Thanksgiving food.

Also, butter is delicious.

^^^^^Yes.

To the beggars can't be choosers bit above, Thanksgiving is not a "dinner party". It is a family gathering based on tradition and food. Also, in many families (mine), it is somewhat of an obligation, and may involve food being prepared by many people. Is the food at MW's family potluck what I am used to/love? No. That's what I get to enjoy when we do Tgivng at my Mother's house later in the day (after driving 2 hours after meal #1...the "obligation to participate in both events" part). When I attend meals with his fam, I bring my contribution made my way, and eat their traditional dishes prepared their way. If it is something I don't eat (there isn't much) I just skip that part.

@TNDancer I don't eat margarine, because not only is it nasty, it is terribly unhealthy. Many people think soy is unhealthy, so soy milk could be out. Some people have nut allergies, and if you just replace your milk in the potatoes with almond milk and don't say anything hoping no "one will notice the difference", you could harm someone. The best solution is for the OP to ask that a bit of each applicable dish be set aside for her to finish herself, especially since it does not appear that her MIL has a problem with that.

Also, in suggesting that an entire family's menu/ingredients be changed to include different ingredients for one person, I can tell you that can piss people off and make that person pretty unpopular with the rest of the group. When my Mother married her H, we had to scrap or change a whole bunch of our holiday favorites because he and his daughter don't like "weird" foods. By weird, I mean things like cheese/herbs/garlic in the mashed potatoes (and HELL NO to serving skin-on red ones), or kale in the stuffing. Fresh green beans were no good, they wanted the mushy ones out of the can turned into a casserole, which no one else eats. The list goes on. Now, Mother and I either have to make 2 kinds of many things, or give up the things the majority of the family likes because 2 people are pickier. It isn't worth the days of complaining she has to hear after if not, so they get their way. It's really made the hours of cooking/clean up that go into making dinner much less enjoyable.

Jen4948 · November 2015

lc07 said:

@themosthappy91 and @julieanne912 Maybe I just don't see it as bending over backwards or really that hard. My friends/family involves mostly "I'll eat anything" people, but also a vegetarian, a lactose intolerant person, two people who don't eat gluten, and one person who doesn't eat soy, gluten, dairy, or sugar. Rarely do I have with all of those people at the same time at my house. There have been times that I have had most of those folks over for dinner at the same time and when I have, I did serve things that some people cannot eat but I make sure I have enough things that they CAN eat to make a full meal. If it was too much of a PITA, no, I wouldn't host them for dinner. I think it's rude to invite someone for dinner but not cater to their dietary needs.
Up to a point. While I agree with you that it's gracious and appropriate for hosts to ask about dietary needs and host accordingly, I also think no guest has the right to expect their hosts to be short-order cooks-especially if their dietary issues are not medical in nature. While they should not be expected to eat anything that conflicts with their beliefs or medical conditions, neither should they make demands of their hosts to be served or not served specific foods unless they could go into anaphylactic shock or the like from exposure to those substances. It's not up to them to control the menus.
I agree. As a guest, I'd never make demands about a menu. But if you invite me into your home for dinner and don't care that I can't eat what you're serving, that's perplexing to me and it changes our relationship. Bottom line for me - As a host, I would NEVER invite someone over for a meal and then make something they cannot/will not eat. It makes no sense.

But neither should you be expected as a host to drive yourself crazy trying to come up with food that they will eat if their dietary issues are so far out of what you could normally provide.

thefanciestbeckler · November 2015

Maggie0829 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

thefanciestbeckler said:

But Sam, you need some sort of dairy- milk, butter, cream cheese, parm cheese- typically a combination of that list, for mashed potatoes to taste better than mashed starch, imo.
I am choking just thinking of eating a plain mashed boiled potatoes. Talk about dry and tasteless.

Lol I agree. Just couldn't resist the opportunity to throw in a good LOTR reference.

huskypuppy14 · November 2015

Do none of you eat baked potatoes? There is no milk in those. I put butter in mine, and salt and pepper, and that's it. You could replace the butter with something vegan. I don't think that would be bland and tasteless. Maybe MIL could just put a separate potato aside and it can be baked instead of boiled. That's simple enough.

PrettyGirlLost · November 2015

huskypuppy14 said:
Do none of you eat baked potatoes? There is no milk in those. I put butter in mine, and salt and pepper, and that's it. You could replace the butter with something vegan. I don't think that would be bland and tasteless. Maybe MIL could just put a separate potato aside and it can be baked instead of boiled. That's simple enough.

Right, no milk. . .but butter and cheese and bacon bits and chives, sometimes sour cream. . .

Potatoes need some sort of diary products and seasonings to be palatable ;-)

knottie2b256f5c2ae42586 · November 2015

I've used A1 on a baked potato before and it was awesome.

Also, vegan butter makes baked potatoes as palatable as dairy butter, so that is a good suggestion.

thisismynickname2 · November 2015

a) This thread has reminded me that there is a cafeteria near work that has a baked potato bar. I may need to indulge... so hungry...

b) For roughly 6 years or so I was pescatarian. The way my family initially reacted you'd have thought I'd declared myself an athiest or something, but the reality is, it's so easy to just not eat meat. ("But what about PROTEIN!?") I digress. Anyway, my in-laws made a big deal about catering to me on the holidays but they make SO much food it was totally a non-issue. They set aside a fish fillet for me, which was so nice of them, but I didn't even need it (I ate it, but didn't need it.) All the veggies and casseroles and other sides were more than enough for me... and guess what, I can pick around stuff I don't like. Bold idea, eh?

I don't know anyone that throws dinner parties of the michelin-star caliber (like, the one entree is something artful and has unique ingredients). Holidays have tons of food options. If someone is a picky eater by choice, I don't think they have the right to demand or expect a special menu for them. I think the host should have a variety of food, sure. But if 1 out of 10 people at dinner is super picky, then they can heap their plate with one or two items that meet with their approval and call it a day. Heck, when I wanted potato casserole or a salad that had bacon in it, I picked out the bacon and DH ate it. Whoop-di-do.

lyndausvi · November 2015

As a host I cater to my guests KNOWN dietary restrictions. If I don't know, I can't cater to them. In the OP's case I would absolutely want to know. As a host I always ask. However, if it's someone who has been to my house before I do not generally go around asking if there are any changes I should know about. If you have been to my home many times, I think we should be close enough for you to tell me any changes.

We have one friend who only eats chicken and crab cakes. That is all for proteins. Doesn't matter if we are doing a lobster bake or a full blown red meat extravaganza, there is always a plate of grilled chicken for her (and enough for a few others if they wish).

There is always something for our one vegetarian friend. We do not have any vegan friends (well close enough to invite to our home). If we did we would cater (although DH would be grumbling under his breath.)

No we will not cater our entire menu to the vegan or just generally a picky eater, but we will make sure they have something to eat that is filling.

When I'm a guest I've always been accommodated by friends who KNOW about restrictions and/or pickiness. It's much appreciated when a friend finds out about something and accommodates them, even if I've never specifically asked. They are bummed up on my good hostess gauge. I don't think bad of hosts who don't, but I do feel good when I walk into a friends house and they have say my favorite beer sitting there. As a host I want my friends to feel the same way when they come to my house.

Asking to set aside Thanksgiving food w/o dairy?

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