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How To do Save the Dates for DW and AHR?

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Re: How To do Save the Dates for DW and AHR?

  • May5Bride2016May5Bride2016 member
    10 Comments Name Dropper
    edited March 2016
    What rude behaviors am I encouraging?

    lol I didn't announce anything on Facebook-I mean folks know we are engaged and are planning a wedding. 

    Again-I did a poll and asked what everyone's dream wedding would consist of. It wasn't related to our wedding planning at all. I wanted unfiltered opinions Of what they would like to do without them knowing our plans. 
  • May5Bride2016May5Bride2016 member
    10 Comments Name Dropper
    edited March 2016
    Here's a copy/paste of what I put on Facebook: Poll: Weddings - What is your ideal plan if you could do it anyway you want and still be within your idea of etiquette guidelines. (or do it over again for already married folks) For both ceremony & reception.

    I was curious how many would go for the DW with AHR vs traditional. Without any outside influence.
  • CMGragainCMGragain member
    10000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 25 Answers
    edited March 2016

    CMGragain said:
    I can see both sides of this issue.  I am definitely NOT in favor of a PPD style celebration party where the wife shows up in her wedding dress, and they try to recreate a wedding reception.
    Perhaps your wording is part of the issue?  I would recommend something like this:

    The pleasure of your company is requested
    to celebrate the recent marriage of
    Bride's Full Name
    and
    Groom's Full Name
    Day, date
    time o'clock
    Venue
    Address
    City, State

    With this wording, you are not openly throwing a party to celebrate yourself.  To host a party to honor yourself is rude.
    Yessss!!! You get it. My invite wording is exactly that. 

    Our names
    Will be married on the island of xxxx on May 5th
    please join them to celebrate their recent nuptials on 
    etc etc 

    Im wearing a sundress and are just going to mingle casually with our loved ones. 
    Sorry, but this is NOT exactly what I posted, and it is not polite.

    You should not mention anything about your wedding on the island.  That is as if you were saying, "We had a wedding, but you weren't invited." I don't understand the phrase "recent nuptials",  Will it be a Catholic mass?  The wording is a bit archaic. 
    If you do wish to formally announce your marriage, you do it with wedding announcements that are sent after the ceremony has taken place.

    Bride's Full Name
    and Groom's Full Name
    announce their marriage
    Date
                                                City, State or Country


    No other information should be included.  After they are sent, you may then send out invitations for your celebration party, which is NOT a part of your wedding.

    As a practical matter, what if something happens (God forbid) that prevents your wedding from happening?  You have pre-announced that is is happening.  Now what?

    Send out your wedding announcements immediately after your ceremony, or have a relative in the states mail them for you.  THEN you can have your celebration, which will NOT be a part of your wedding.  No wedding traditions, but it is fine to show people your photos.  There is an advantage to doing this.  Since the party/celebration is not a part of your wedding, you may invite anybody you choose.  No obligations apply.  You should not have wedding showers or bach. parties, though, since these people aren't invited to your wedding day.
    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
    [Deleted User]holyguacamole79
  • May5Bride2016May5Bride2016 member
    10 Comments Name Dropper
    edited March 2016
    I wouldn't be offended - at all. Guess I'm the only one on this website. The invite makes it clear that we will be married. Just like you suggested...but because the invite says where we are married it's rude?

    So its ok to say recent marriage (polite)- but  not give a date and location, not polite..right! I just don't get it - sorry!  Your wording says the same thing with "recent marriage" except sounds secretive to me...matter of opinion. I don't think it's not polite though. Both wordings essentially say the same thing. 

    I also got this idea for wording from a website that promotes etiquette - just not the same as this site, for sure.
  • CMGragainCMGragain member
    10000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 25 Answers
    edited March 2016
    There are many. many websites out there that will tell you anything you want to hear.  Even some of the Emily Post Institute's latest wording suggestions are wrong.
    You invitation to your WEDDING and RECEPTION (on the same day) states, simply, who, what, when and where.  Your marriage announcement, sent AFTER your wedding ceremony, states, simply, who, what, when and where.  Your party invitation is a separate event, and should not be connected with either of the first two mailings.
    There is nothing rude about a private ceremony or an elopement.  Most of the women in my family have done this.  There is also nothing wrong with having a party to celebrate at a later time.  It is trying to combine the two events that is the issue.
    You should be pleased.  You can follow your basic plans.  Just do it properly.
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    [Deleted User]
  • May5Bride2016May5Bride2016 member
    10 Comments Name Dropper
    edited March 2016
    But why are you to say they are wrong?? There are different styles I am sure - clearly mine differs from you. I just don't think that people nit pick that much over every single detail and/or gasp - "omg-she told us where!! And when!! Instead of just saying they recently got married-she's is not polite at all!" give me a break.

    I wouldn't have any desire to be bothered with receiving all these pieces of mail! Talk about overkill! You're having a party to celebrate your wedding? Great! I know you're married now-no need to mail me an announcement! 

    Not to mention-everyone invited knows where and when our ceremony will take place anyway; it's not info that will b new to them.
  • CMGragainCMGragain member
    10000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 25 Answers
    edited March 2016
    Bride's Full Name
    and
    Groom's Full Name
    will be married  at
    Unicorn and Rainbows Island
    and you aren't invited

    Please come to the celebration of the event
    to which you weren't important enough to be invited .

    NOW do you get it?
    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
    MobKazsparklepants41[Deleted User]
  • No-because it's not worded that way. 
     
    and you can certainly put that spin on the wording you suggested as well.  
     
    "You're invited to celebrate the recent marriage of which you were not invited" 

    Who the hell reads into it like that?! They went away and Married and are having a celebration. That is what they're going to read. Especially since our loved ones know our plans and know that we prefer to do that portion alone.
  • Look, we have tried to help you.  Instead of listening to our advice, you have argued with everyone.  If you don't care about etiquette, The Knot is not a good place for you.
    I have told you that your plans are acceptable if you follow certain steps, the most important one being that you only get one wedding day and one wedding reception.  The party you want is not a part of your wedding.  You want to combine your wedding and this celebration party.  Your vision is more important than the possibility of insulting your guests.  I am done with you.  You don't want help, just validation, and you won't get it from me.
    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
    [Deleted User]
  • Oh I didn't ask for help-I am perfectly fine with my plans. As are my loved ones. I was more pointing out some things for the original poster when you all jumped all over her-with your holier than tho attitudes & that YOUR way is the only way. 

    The problem with your etiquette is that yours is Right & everyone else is wrong. It's hilarious that all other wedding websites warn about this site and opinions. 

    I can respect other people's visions - but it doesn't mean it's the only right way. You know I'm correct in saying that the wording you suggested can really turn into the circus of wording that you threw into my wording. 

    Reception is also just that...there is no where in a definition that it needs to be a thank you immediately  after a wedding...it's a reception of guests to celebrate...so let's help the original poster instead of jumping all over her and forcing your very rigid thoughts on her wording-in which she didn't even ask an opinion on. 

    so nope - don't agree and I know I'm not the only one who does not. Just not on this website. 
  • May5Bride2016May5Bride2016 member
    10 Comments Name Dropper
    edited March 2016
    I also am not combining my party and my wedding day. The party (for the 100th time) is to celebrate our good news.

    as for validation-I have plenty of that, wasn't looking for it from you. Was just trying to expand you mind that people aren't really that nit picky. 
  • I will agree that this website is not for me-I had been warned, so it's my own fault. Your rules or youre rude. Emily post and everyone else is wrong-got it. Delusional much?!

    So I'm all set here too. Have fun stressing over every since tiny thing that most people won't even interprete close to the way you twist it. 
  • Don't let the door hit you in the fanny on your way out.
    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
    crowsgirl15[Deleted User]spockforprez
  • I will agree that this website is not for me-I had been warned, so it's my own fault. Your rules or youre rude. Emily post and everyone else is wrong-got it. Delusional much?!

    So I'm all set here too. Have fun stressing over every since tiny thing that most people won't even interprete close to the way you twist it. 
    They really will. They just won't tell you to your face. I was just rolling my eyes at a PPD and a honeyfund with my bff yesterday. But I didn't call the bride and tell her she was rude. Because people don't do that, that's what the Knot is for.


    [Deleted User]
  • I just don't get it. Every. single. poster. said the exact same thing about what was rude and what wasn't. Everyone pretty much agreed on what was rude, and stated that they would find it that way. But somehow this poster plugged her fingers in her ears and went "LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" the entire time. They repeatedly stated that they don't know ANYONE or MOST PEOPLE won't do x y and z while having every other person on the website saying they would do x y and z. I just can't understand living with that much cognitive dissonance.
    image
    [Deleted User]AddieCake
  • If you dont want people looking at you/taking pictures/making you the center of attention, and that's the reason for the DW, why in the world are you having a party where that's exactly what's going to happen? You think people are going to be focused on the couple at a celebration of marriage party? The logic just seems crazy to me. 
    sparklepants41[Deleted User]YogaSandyspockforprez
  • I love everything abut this post. Especially sassy @CMGragain . You are marvelous. I feel like there should have been a bingo in there somewhere though.

    spockforprez
  • OP here- wow I missed a lot. The last time I read the responses, I started to get so overwhelmed and checked out for a bit. Every time I start to look at planning anything close to a reception I get overwhelmed, which is why I originally chose a DW! The only reason I even considered an AHR/ celebration was because of the disappointment we heard in our family's voices when we told them about our DW plans. 

    I have to disagree that the wedding industry tells us it's all about ME ME ME! In reality,  they tell us it's all about our guests! Why else does it matter to have an epic venue, gourmet feast,  perfect decor,  designer dress, etc? Marriage is about committing yourself to someone for the rest of your life. Do you think God cares what flavor cake you had, or if it was a cash or open bar? Everything everyone is posting on here about "etiquette" has everything to do with what's best for the guest. I just don't understand how my decision to spend the rest of my life with someone obligates me to spend thousands to throw a party for others. But, the wedding industry doesn't stand to make much on people with my mentality. 

    Over the weekend I tried to tell my mom I didn't want an AHR, and pointed out that she always used to encourage my desire  to elope. Now SHE is the one insisting I do SOMETHING for family and their friends.  But every time I ask her how much money they're contributing, she puts me off. She's also saying she wants to throw a bridal shower (which I say those are ridiculous and greedy ) because she's been to so many for her friends' daughters, it's her daughter's turn now. So who is this all about again? 

    All this said, I think you can have the most perfect proper wedding and reception, and you will STILL have people look sideways at you for something. Why?  Because not everyone has the same Idea of what's proper, or because you didn't do it how they'd like it,  or because they're just critical by nature. Some people just can't be pleased. 

    That brings me to my next question. With all due respect,  what makes any of you an expert on etiquette?  Are there creditentials for such things? Who are you to say someone like Emily Post is wrong,  when her entire career is being an expert on etiquette? New brides come to this site looking for inspiration and advice, and some of the attitudes SOME of you convey in your responses are very off-putting. Not because you aren't telling us what we want to hear,  but because of the way you say it.  Plus,  I  initially asked how to word the invites, not for opinion on etiquette. I haven't read every response,  but so far I feel CMGragain has been the most neutral and helpful. 

    My cousin married a girl from Poland, they were wed in Poland, then had an AHR here. I wasn't able to attend the AHR but my sister did. After the responses I was reading here,  I decided to just ask my sister what my cousin's AHR was like. She told me it was similar to any other wedding reception, she did arrive in her wedding dress then changed, and did not have any sort of ceremony  (as neither would I.)  I think I will just model my celebration similar to hers. 
  • flantasticflantastic The Midwest member
    Sixth Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    edited March 2016
    OP here- wow I missed a lot. The last time I read the responses, I started to get so overwhelmed and checked out for a bit. Every time I start to look at planning anything close to a reception I get overwhelmed, which is why I originally chose a DW! The only reason I even considered an AHR/ celebration was because of the disappointment we heard in our family's voices when we told them about our DW plans. 

    I have to disagree that the wedding industry tells us it's all about ME ME ME! In reality,  they tell us it's all about our guests! Why else does it matter to have an epic venue, gourmet feast,  perfect decor,  designer dress, etc? Marriage is about committing yourself to someone for the rest of your life. Do you think God cares what flavor cake you had, or if it was a cash or open bar? Everything everyone is posting on here about "etiquette" has everything to do with what's best for the guest. I just don't understand how my decision to spend the rest of my life with someone obligates me to spend thousands to throw a party for others. But, the wedding industry doesn't stand to make much on people with my mentality. 

    Over the weekend I tried to tell my mom I didn't want an AHR, and pointed out that she always used to encourage my desire  to elope. Now SHE is the one insisting I do SOMETHING for family and their friends.  But every time I ask her how much money they're contributing, she puts me off. She's also saying she wants to throw a bridal shower (which I say those are ridiculous and greedy ) because she's been to so many for her friends' daughters, it's her daughter's turn now. So who is this all about again? 

    All this said, I think you can have the most perfect proper wedding and reception, and you will STILL have people look sideways at you for something. Why?  Because not everyone has the same Idea of what's proper, or because you didn't do it how they'd like it,  or because they're just critical by nature. Some people just can't be pleased. 

    That brings me to my next question. With all due respect,  what makes any of you an expert on etiquette?  Are there creditentials for such things? Who are you to say someone like Emily Post is wrong,  when her entire career is being an expert on etiquette? New brides come to this site looking for inspiration and advice, and some of the attitudes SOME of you convey in your responses are very off-putting. Not because you aren't telling us what we want to hear,  but because of the way you say it.  Plus,  I  initially asked how to word the invites, not for opinion on etiquette. I haven't read every response,  but so far I feel CMGragain has been the most neutral and helpful. 

    My cousin married a girl from Poland, they were wed in Poland, then had an AHR here. I wasn't able to attend the AHR but my sister did. After the responses I was reading here,  I decided to just ask my sister what my cousin's AHR was like. She told me it was similar to any other wedding reception, she did arrive in her wedding dress then changed, and did not have any sort of ceremony  (as neither would I.)  I think I will just model my celebration similar to hers. 
    Treating people well is etiquette. It's not "tradition" or what is "proper." It's common sense about how not to be an asshole to people. We're not saying you need to try to please all the people who can't be pleased, but you can't invite people somewhere and then not take care of them. The good news is that you don't have to invite them. If you don't want to worry about treating a large number of guests well, don't invite all those guests. Enjoy your small DW. You can say no to the AHR, and to your mom. That doesn't make you a jerk. Not everyone can be included in everything. But you cannot try to include them and then half-ass it.

    The decision to spend your life with someone does not obligate you to spend thousands on a party for others. However, if you choose to invite a lot of people to witness you commit to spending your life with someone, you may well spend thousands hosting them, and you need to host them if you've asked them to be there. How much you spend depends on other choices you make - you can host something as simple as cake and punch after a 2 pm ceremony, although for a DW itself that would seem like a very simple thank you when you've asked them to spend thousands to get to you. Common sense, hopefully.

    Your cash bar example would be treating people poorly. It's half-assing it. There doesn't need to be alcohol at the party. You just can't say "Here's the alcohol, because I want a party where there's alcohol, but if you want to partake of it you'll need to pay for it." I do think that God does care whether you are more concerned with your own desires than about caring for others.

    The Emily Post Institute - well, I'll let @CMGragain tell you about that since you seem to respect her tone.

    When you post something on the internet, you open yourself up to commentary on everything you post. People commenting on your etiquette are trying to help you not be an asshole.
  • thisismynickname2thisismynickname2 City By The Lake member
    5000 Comments Sixth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited March 2016
    If you're getting overwhelmed planning a reception, either at your destination location or at home, then elope. 
    You do not owe anyone a party for getting married. The fact that your mom thinks you have to have a shower so her friends can basically pay her back for attending all their showers is gross. 
    It boggles my mind that people think "wedding planning" is overwhelming so they get married one place and have an "AHR" somewhere else. Wedding planning is party planning! If you are too stressed to plan a party, then really, elope. You can do that at a beautiful destination location... but once you invite anyone to witness it, it's no longer about you, and you must host them. 

    ETA: About your Poland example, I'm far more interested in an AHR in those kinds of situations. If each part of a couple hails from a different country then that couple really can't win- they have to get married somewhere, and that somewhere will be financially prohibitive to an entire side of a family. That is completely different from two parts of a couple that hail from the same country but want to escape to another country for whatever reason they cite. 
    People who have families who live, say, on the West Coast and the East Coast of the United States or Canada face the same kind of logistical issue, so they often choose whatever location is best for the VIPs and accept the fact that not everyone can travel to their wedding. Those are also often times DWs make the most sense- if most people have to travel anyway, may as well pick a really cool spot to have the wedding. 
    ________________________________


  • In our case,  the majority of our VIPs would have to travel no matter where we get married. They'd also have to travel to come to an AHR, which is why I originally asked about STDs to let them know ahead of time so they can choose,  make arrangements. FIs family is all in New England, most of mine is in Ohio and California,  and we live in Texas. We'll happily (and properly) host anyone who makes the trip to Italy, it's the AHR I've never been thrilled about. 

    My cash/host bar comment was JUST an example. I don't agree with cash bars, but it's not like no one does it.  
  • ViczaesarViczaesar Central Coast, CA member
    Ninth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    OP here- wow I missed a lot. The last time I read the responses, I started to get so overwhelmed and checked out for a bit. Every time I start to look at planning anything close to a reception I get overwhelmed, which is why I originally chose a DW! The only reason I even considered an AHR/ celebration was because of the disappointment we heard in our family's voices when we told them about our DW plans. 

    I have to disagree that the wedding industry tells us it's all about ME ME ME! In reality,  they tell us it's all about our guests! Why else does it matter to have an epic venue, gourmet feast,  perfect decor,  designer dress, etc? Marriage is about committing yourself to someone for the rest of your life. Do you think God cares what flavor cake you had, or if it was a cash or open bar? Everything everyone is posting on here about "etiquette" has everything to do with what's best for the guest. I just don't understand how my decision to spend the rest of my life with someone obligates me to spend thousands to throw a party for others. But, the wedding industry doesn't stand to make much on people with my mentality. 

    Over the weekend I tried to tell my mom I didn't want an AHR, and pointed out that she always used to encourage my desire  to elope. Now SHE is the one insisting I do SOMETHING for family and their friends.  But every time I ask her how much money they're contributing, she puts me off. She's also saying she wants to throw a bridal shower (which I say those are ridiculous and greedy ) because she's been to so many for her friends' daughters, it's her daughter's turn now. So who is this all about again? 

    All this said, I think you can have the most perfect proper wedding and reception, and you will STILL have people look sideways at you for something. Why?  Because not everyone has the same Idea of what's proper, or because you didn't do it how they'd like it,  or because they're just critical by nature. Some people just can't be pleased. 

    That brings me to my next question. With all due respect,  what makes any of you an expert on etiquette?  Are there creditentials for such things? Who are you to say someone like Emily Post is wrong,  when her entire career is being an expert on etiquette? New brides come to this site looking for inspiration and advice, and some of the attitudes SOME of you convey in your responses are very off-putting. Not because you aren't telling us what we want to hear,  but because of the way you say it.  Plus,  I  initially asked how to word the invites, not for opinion on etiquette. I haven't read every response,  but so far I feel CMGragain has been the most neutral and helpful. 

    My cousin married a girl from Poland, they were wed in Poland, then had an AHR here. I wasn't able to attend the AHR but my sister did. After the responses I was reading here,  I decided to just ask my sister what my cousin's AHR was like. She told me it was similar to any other wedding reception, she did arrive in her wedding dress then changed, and did not have any sort of ceremony  (as neither would I.)  I think I will just model my celebration similar to hers. 
    How on earth is a designer wedding dress "for the guests"?  You're right that wedding receptions should be about the guests.  That doesn't obligate anybody to spend a lot of money, it just obligates them to use their common sense and not act like an asshole.  If you can't afford to host guests properly, don't have guests.  That's a perfectly acceptable thing to do according to etiquette.  If you want to have guests but can't afford a meal, have your wedding at a non-meal time and have cake and punch or the like.  That's also perfectly acceptable.  Can't afford alcohol for your guests?  Perfectly fine, just have a dry wedding.  Don't want a dry wedding?  Figure out what you can afford to host for the entire event and do that, whether that be just wine, wine and beer, wine and beer and a specialty cocktail, whatever.  All you need to do to have an etiquette-approved wedding is provide adequate seating, shelter from the elements, and food and drink appropriate to the time of day.  That can be done at any budget, regardless of how small or how large.

    As for your second bolded section, it's called research.  For instance, if you had googled Emily Post you would have found out that she's long since dead, and her grandkids are now running the "Emily Post Institute" in her name and giving advice that would make Emily roll over in her grave.  Emily herself is a fine etiquette source, though a bit conservative.  One good source of American etiquette who is still alive is Miss Manners, aka Judith Martin. 

    Here's the fun thing about the internet - you'll get advice on things you ask about AND things you don't ask about!  It's nifty that way.



    levioosaCMGragain[Deleted User]
  • CMGragainCMGragain member
    10000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 25 Answers
    edited March 2016
    Emily Post died in 1960.  No way would she approve of the advice her descendants are giving people!  I am old enough to remember her, and her competitor, Amy Vanderbilt, also long gone.
    I also like Miss Manners for contemporary advice.

    Here is a list of wedding practices that did not exist in 1960:

    Bachelorette parties
    Dinner wedding receptions
    DJs
    Save the Date cards
    AHRs
    Tuxedos worn at weddings
    Wedding "themes"
    Second marriages with bride wearing full white dress and veil.
    PPDs
    Social media (Facebook)

    These are all things that did not exist during Ms. Post's lifetime.
    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
  • In our case,  the majority of our VIPs would have to travel no matter where we get married. They'd also have to travel to come to an AHR, which is why I originally asked about STDs to let them know ahead of time so they can choose,  make arrangements. FIs family is all in New England, most of mine is in Ohio and California,  and we live in Texas. We'll happily (and properly) host anyone who makes the trip to Italy, it's the AHR I've never been thrilled about. 

    My cash/host bar comment was JUST an example. I don't agree with cash bars, but it's not like no one does it.  
    I'm still curious as to whether you'll meet the requirements to have your DW the way you've planned. If you don't, will you have your wedding stateside? It would be much less expensive for your guests to travel anywhere in the US than to go to Italy and they'd get to see your actual wedding, which, if I were in their place, I'd much prefer.
  • AddieCakeAddieCake Beyond the Wall member
    10000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 25 Answers
    My best friend just eloped. Truly eloped as in nobody knew. I'm excited for her. Now she is talking about having a "reception" sometime in the future. Will I go? Of course I will because she is my best friend. However, this means I have to spend money to travel (and possibly take off work) out of state for a party. Not for her wedding, but for a party. I'm not crazy about that. 

    I realize this situation isn't exactly DW followed by AHR territory, but the point is the same that when you do this, you're asking people to come celebrate even though they were not invited to or could not attend the important part. 

    I feel like people who do this are just so convinced everybody and their brother is sad to have missed out and they want to join in the fun of celebrating the couple. Hence, the reception tours that I don't understand. Not everyone cares that they missed your wedding. Sorry, but that's the reality. Yes, some people are interested in participating, but I'm just floored at the number of brides I see who seem to think more people care than probably actually do. 
    What did you think would happen if you walked up to a group of internet strangers and told them to get shoehorned by their lady doc?~StageManager14
    image
    thisismynickname2Maggie0829
  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 a taco truck in Houston member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    Knottie1456528968, so how did you swing a wedding at the Vatican?  Totally curious & intrigued.
  • flantasticflantastic The Midwest member
    Sixth Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    In our case,  the majority of our VIPs would have to travel no matter where we get married. They'd also have to travel to come to an AHR, which is why I originally asked about STDs to let them know ahead of time so they can choose,  make arrangements. FIs family is all in New England, most of mine is in Ohio and California,  and we live in Texas. We'll happily (and properly) host anyone who makes the trip to Italy, it's the AHR I've never been thrilled about. 

    My cash/host bar comment was JUST an example. I don't agree with cash bars, but it's not like no one does it.  
    I responded to your example by explaining why etiquette should equal common sense in that example. It should be the same with everything else.

    You seem like you may be missing the point in your desire to discredit basically everyone in the thread. What does it matter if people "do it," whatever the rude thing is? Yes, some people do treat others poorly. Those who advocate etiquette are just trying to convince anyone reading this thread not to be one of those people.

    Just say no to the AHR. People really do not care as much as your mom claims they will. Invite whomever you want at your wedding to come to Italy and whoever makes it makes it, and everyone else moves on with their life.
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