Frustrating Mother in Law

kylexo · August 2016

man, i posted about this thread on another message board i use (all people i know IRL though) and there is one guy on there who is recently engaged and planning his wedding right now who is just completely unwilling to see how arbitrary criteria to exclude peoples SOs is a problem and i feel like i'm banging my head against a wall. i should just send him the link here.

[Deleted User] · August 2016

thisismynickname said:

In OP's defense (I know, I know) when I was in my young twenties I read a Dear Abby article that said you only "had" to invite to weddings established social units- married, engaged, living together. Not knowing any better, I took it as Gospel. It's Dear Abby, after all.

I've since Seen The Light and though it sounds too late for OP, hopefully more people learn from TK like I did before people get offended.

Same here when I was engaged for the first time. I definitely read things all over the place that said "no ring no bring" was acceptable. Interestingly though, I read that almost nowhere now (other than brides in forums trying to defend themselves).

mollybarker11 · August 2016

Obviously loads of people seem to think "no ring, no bring" is a thing and I don't think it instantly catapults someone into Horrible Human territory. But I do find it odd & disappointing that OP planned her whole entire wedding without asking any etiquette-related questions aside from "How can I continue to exclude my MIL whose feelings I hurt?" (Which tbh seems like more of a Moms & Maids kinda thread but I'm not the posting police.)

MaggieF1990 · August 2016

Ironring said:

thisismynickname said:

In OP's defense (I know, I know) when I was in my young twenties I read a Dear Abby article that said you only "had" to invite to weddings established social units- married, engaged, living together. Not knowing any better, I took it as Gospel. It's Dear Abby, after all.

I've since Seen The Light and though it sounds too late for OP, hopefully more people learn from TK like I did before people get offended.

Same here when I was engaged for the first time. I definitely read things all over the place that said "no ring no bring" was acceptable. Interestingly though, I read that almost nowhere now (other than brides in forums trying to defend themselves).

I'll join that club. Before getting engaged and visiting these boards, I thought it was common and fine to invite whoever's SOs you wanted to, and not invite the ones you didn't want to. I'm so glad I saw the light here!

aurianna · August 2016

Agree. I remember before I was engaged my mom mentioned only inviting people if they were engaged and married and I was like, "ok."
And then one day she said "no, we'll invite everyone." And I said "ok."
And then I came here and started to realize that it's pretty heinous to exclude due to no ring. Especially considering I'd been with hubby 7 years prior to getting a ring.

mntravelingmama · August 2016

"No ring, no bring" is the ultimate in tackiness!

charlotte989875 · August 2016

I had no idea people actually used the phrase "no ring no bring" in real life. I just thought it was a terrible rhyme we used to describe really bad behavior. Learn something new everyday.

InLoveInQueens · August 2016

charlotte989875 said:

I had no idea people actually used the phrase "no ring no bring" in real life. I just thought it was a terrible rhyme we used to describe really bad behavior. Learn something new everyday.

SITB

I was talking weddings with a couple of coworkers and one said it to me... I kind of had to stop a second to figure out if she was serious or not. Another coworker also was ranting about how one bridesmaid wasn't chipping in enough and told me they didn't ask budget for the shower/Bachelorette but she was told how much to contribute.

I've stopped talking weddings at work because when I share how I feel they're being rude they get pissy at me.

CMGragain · August 2016

@InLoveInQueens, Don't tell them they are rude. Just tell them that they MUST try The Knot, and that we have such wonderful wedding advice! We will take care of them!

InLoveInQueens · August 2016

CMGragain said:

@InLoveInQueens, Don't tell them they are rude. Just tell them that they MUST try The Knot, and that we have such wonderful wedding advice! We will take care of them!

Lol very true. I didn't say "you're being rude", I used some euphemisms and the like "I would hate if I was dating someone for 4 years and wasn't invited to someone's wedding because I didn't have a ring yet/I would feel so uncomfortable if I had to explain that I couldn't afford to contribute to a party I had no hand in planning/was told I needed to plan" but it didn't work that well. Next time I'll send them here, one coworker is married and the other is nowhere near married but they're involved in family/friend's weddings and I'm sad imagining them giving those people terrible advice like this.

mollybarker11 · August 2016

I keep my lips zipped any time colleagues bring up their terrible wedding ideas because I don't want to harsh their vibe and tense up the atmosphere.

Which is probably why we get so many folks here going "None of MY guests have a problem with it!" Nah honey, none of your guests want to suffer the awkwardness.

The only brides/grooms I put the effort into helping are those I'm so close to that we can weather the weirdness and those I'll never have to ever interact with IRL.

InLoveInQueens · August 2016

mollybarker11 said:

I keep my lips zipped any time colleagues bring up their terrible wedding ideas because I don't want to harsh their vibe and tense up the atmosphere.

Which is probably why we get so many folks here going "None of MY guests have a problem with it!" Nah honey, none of your guests want to suffer the awkwardness.

The only brides/grooms I put the effort into helping are those I'm so close to that we can weather the weirdness and those I'll never have to ever interact with IRL.

After I wrote my post my coworker who's in a bridal party was complaining again about the woman who didn't contribute enough. She was ranting about how now she's not paying enough for the bridal shower because she's going in on the groom's gift and wasn't asked her budget for the bridal shower...

redoryx · August 2016

mollybarker11 said:

I keep my lips zipped any time colleagues bring up their terrible wedding ideas because I don't want to harsh their vibe and tense up the atmosphere.

Which is probably why we get so many folks here going "None of MY guests have a problem with it!" Nah honey, none of your guests want to suffer the awkwardness.

The only brides/grooms I put the effort into helping are those I'm so close to that we can weather the weirdness and those I'll never have to ever interact with IRL.

I had a co-worker get engaged shortly after I started working and her FI wanted his sister as a bridesmaid. Now, granted, he had no right to push for that but he told my co-worker he didn't understand what the big deal was because all his sister needs to do is get a dress and show up. To which my co-worker responded "What? No, being a bridesmaid is WAY more than that. There is the shower and the bachelorette party and helping me and..."

Sigh. My other co-worker was totally agreeing with her and I just say there 'cause no way was I stepping into that bear trap.

SP29 · August 2016

mollybarker11 said:

I keep my lips zipped any time colleagues bring up their terrible wedding ideas because I don't want to harsh their vibe and tense up the atmosphere.

Which is probably why we get so many folks here going "None of MY guests have a problem with it!" Nah honey, none of your guests want to suffer the awkwardness.

The only brides/grooms I put the effort into helping are those I'm so close to that we can weather the weirdness and those I'll never have to ever interact with IRL.

Exactly. Been there, done that. I will try to slide in "alternatives" like "you know you can do beer and wine if you don't want to have a full open bar", but I would rarely outright tell someone I personally know to their face they were rude.

PrettyGirlLost · August 2016

SP29 said:

mollybarker11 said:

I keep my lips zipped any time colleagues bring up their terrible wedding ideas because I don't want to harsh their vibe and tense up the atmosphere.

Which is probably why we get so many folks here going "None of MY guests have a problem with it!" Nah honey, none of your guests want to suffer the awkwardness.

The only brides/grooms I put the effort into helping are those I'm so close to that we can weather the weirdness and those I'll never have to ever interact with IRL.

Exactly. Been there, done that. I will try to slide in "alternatives" like "you know you can do beer and wine if you don't want to have a full open bar", but I would rarely outright tell someone I personally know to their face they were rude.

It all depends on the person as to how the message is presented how severe the infraction is, lol.

SaintPaulGal · August 2016

RE: the fuzzy math: I think the OP is trying to imply that 16/20 couples had broken up by the time invites went out, and apparently now the other 4 SOs are also "out of the picture." I can't image that this is truthful or accurate, but I think that's what she is going for.

Knottie1471452194 · August 2016

MaggieF1990 said:

Ironring said:

thisismynickname said:

In OP's defense (I know, I know) when I was in my young twenties I read a Dear Abby article that said you only "had" to invite to weddings established social units- married, engaged, living together. Not knowing any better, I took it as Gospel. It's Dear Abby, after all.

I've since Seen The Light and though it sounds too late for OP, hopefully more people learn from TK like I did before people get offended.

Same here when I was engaged for the first time. I definitely read things all over the place that said "no ring no bring" was acceptable. Interestingly though, I read that almost nowhere now (other than brides in forums trying to defend themselves).

I'll join that club. Before getting engaged and visiting these boards, I thought it was common and fine to invite whoever's SOs you wanted to, and not invite the ones you didn't want to. I'm so glad I saw the light here!

SAME. Before I lurked, I had no idea about so much of this stuff: PPDs, Honeyfunds, dollar dances, etc. I only knew what I had seen at weddings growing up. Many of which included these things and more. (Like cash bars and a pre-printed thank you card that I did know enough to side-eye.)

But I will say that I can understand some of these brides ghosting after the initial pile-on when some posters here jump on these brides' previously unknown "rude" behavior.

I'm not speaking of my own experience - I can handle (and deserve) everything I got - but just from lurking, IMO sometimes it seems like a pack of wolves waiting to strike?

ScottishSarah · August 2016

PrettyGirlLost said:

mollybarker11 said:

Oh yeesh. Since the invites have already gone out you are stuck looking rude to your guests in relationships and thoughtless to the in-laws you didn't consult!

I also cannot follow the math on 20 friends being in new relationships but only four people being excluded. Were all 20 of them dating the same four people? Reminder for your next event: poly relationships are still relationships! It does look especially bad that your budget was so poorly planned it couldn't be adjusted for only four additional guests.

Since those four SOs are now "out of the picture" there isn't really anything you can do. If, however, you just happened to forget 16 of your friends' partners please find a way to accommodate them and send invites ASAP with your apologies.

Two corrections/questions for the crowd:
1. @PrettyGirlLost Isn't it standard to send invitations 6-8 weeks before the wedding? Assuming she sent them within the last couple weeks I don't think it's way too early.
2. A few people mentioned inviting any new SOs who pop up between now and the wedding, which would be very nice but it's not required. The rule is to invite any SOs who exist when the invites are sent.

No, I think 4-5 weeks is reasonable for invitations. You typically don't need final numbers for your venue or caterer until 1-1.5 weeks out. So there's no reason to send out invitations 2 months prior.

6 weeks would be pushing it on too early, and 8 weeks is definitely two early.

Sorry @PrettyGirlLost have to disagree! I think 6 weeks is a bit tight if people have to make travel arrangements. We sent ours out 8 weeks before and I don't think this was pushing it.

drunkenwitch · August 2016

ScottishSarah said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

mollybarker11 said:

Oh yeesh. Since the invites have already gone out you are stuck looking rude to your guests in relationships and thoughtless to the in-laws you didn't consult!

I also cannot follow the math on 20 friends being in new relationships but only four people being excluded. Were all 20 of them dating the same four people? Reminder for your next event: poly relationships are still relationships! It does look especially bad that your budget was so poorly planned it couldn't be adjusted for only four additional guests.

Since those four SOs are now "out of the picture" there isn't really anything you can do. If, however, you just happened to forget 16 of your friends' partners please find a way to accommodate them and send invites ASAP with your apologies.

Two corrections/questions for the crowd:
1. @PrettyGirlLost Isn't it standard to send invitations 6-8 weeks before the wedding? Assuming she sent them within the last couple weeks I don't think it's way too early.
2. A few people mentioned inviting any new SOs who pop up between now and the wedding, which would be very nice but it's not required. The rule is to invite any SOs who exist when the invites are sent.

No, I think 4-5 weeks is reasonable for invitations. You typically don't need final numbers for your venue or caterer until 1-1.5 weeks out. So there's no reason to send out invitations 2 months prior.

6 weeks would be pushing it on too early, and 8 weeks is definitely two early.

Sorry @PrettyGirlLost have to disagree! I think 6 weeks is a bit tight if people have to make travel arrangements. We sent ours out 8 weeks before and I don't think this was pushing it.

I could be wrong, but I thought that's what save the dates were for. They alert your OT guests that they have to plan for travel and tell everyone to mark their calendars.

MesmrEwe · August 2016

englishrose-2 · August 2016

ScottishSarah said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

mollybarker11 said:

Oh yeesh. Since the invites have already gone out you are stuck looking rude to your guests in relationships and thoughtless to the in-laws you didn't consult!

I also cannot follow the math on 20 friends being in new relationships but only four people being excluded. Were all 20 of them dating the same four people? Reminder for your next event: poly relationships are still relationships! It does look especially bad that your budget was so poorly planned it couldn't be adjusted for only four additional guests.

Since those four SOs are now "out of the picture" there isn't really anything you can do. If, however, you just happened to forget 16 of your friends' partners please find a way to accommodate them and send invites ASAP with your apologies.

Two corrections/questions for the crowd:
1. @PrettyGirlLost Isn't it standard to send invitations 6-8 weeks before the wedding? Assuming she sent them within the last couple weeks I don't think it's way too early.
2. A few people mentioned inviting any new SOs who pop up between now and the wedding, which would be very nice but it's not required. The rule is to invite any SOs who exist when the invites are sent.

No, I think 4-5 weeks is reasonable for invitations. You typically don't need final numbers for your venue or caterer until 1-1.5 weeks out. So there's no reason to send out invitations 2 months prior.

6 weeks would be pushing it on too early, and 8 weeks is definitely two early.

Sorry @PrettyGirlLost have to disagree! I think 6 weeks is a bit tight if people have to make travel arrangements. We sent ours out 8 weeks before and I don't think this was pushing it.

Do you still live in Scotland @ScottishSarah? Whatever the etiquette, I think in the UK we tend to send out invitations much earlier. I got one 6 weeks before a wedding in May and those guests who I know (admittedly only 15-20 people) were a little bit narked to get it so "late" (as they saw it). Otherwise I've always had them quite a long way in advance, at least 2 months but usually 3-4. I even had one 8 months in advance for April just gone.

englishrose-2 · August 2016

Also, I hate it when people don't invite SOs for whatever reason, but "no ring no bring" gets me the most angry. It's so arbitrary. Also the bride and groom who saw my lack of ring as a good way to shave a guest and £100 off their wedding by not inviting my partner will expect to be entitled to be invited together to my wedding because ring. Obviously I'll invite all couples together because a) I don't engage in tit for tat and b) I'm not rude AF, but the hypocrisy of the no ring no bring crowd makes me shake with rage!

LondonLisa · August 2016

Englishrose said:

ScottishSarah said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

mollybarker11 said:

Oh yeesh. Since the invites have already gone out you are stuck looking rude to your guests in relationships and thoughtless to the in-laws you didn't consult!

I also cannot follow the math on 20 friends being in new relationships but only four people being excluded. Were all 20 of them dating the same four people? Reminder for your next event: poly relationships are still relationships! It does look especially bad that your budget was so poorly planned it couldn't be adjusted for only four additional guests.

Since those four SOs are now "out of the picture" there isn't really anything you can do. If, however, you just happened to forget 16 of your friends' partners please find a way to accommodate them and send invites ASAP with your apologies.

Two corrections/questions for the crowd:
1. @PrettyGirlLost Isn't it standard to send invitations 6-8 weeks before the wedding? Assuming she sent them within the last couple weeks I don't think it's way too early.
2. A few people mentioned inviting any new SOs who pop up between now and the wedding, which would be very nice but it's not required. The rule is to invite any SOs who exist when the invites are sent.

No, I think 4-5 weeks is reasonable for invitations. You typically don't need final numbers for your venue or caterer until 1-1.5 weeks out. So there's no reason to send out invitations 2 months prior.

6 weeks would be pushing it on too early, and 8 weeks is definitely two early.

Sorry @PrettyGirlLost have to disagree! I think 6 weeks is a bit tight if people have to make travel arrangements. We sent ours out 8 weeks before and I don't think this was pushing it.

Do you still live in Scotland @ScottishSarah? Whatever the etiquette, I think in the UK we tend to send out invitations much earlier. I got one 6 weeks before a wedding in May and those guests who I know (admittedly only 15-20 people) were a little bit narked to get it so "late" (as they saw it). Otherwise I've always had them quite a long way in advance, at least 2 months but usually 3-4. I even had one 8 months in advance for April just gone.

Ditto this- I think this is one instance when it actually is regional. I've always received UK/European invites 3-4 months and RSVP is 6 weeks, but I understand North America is different.

ILoveBeachMusic · August 2016

drunkenwitch said:

ScottishSarah said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

mollybarker11 said:

Oh yeesh. Since the invites have already gone out you are stuck looking rude to your guests in relationships and thoughtless to the in-laws you didn't consult!

I also cannot follow the math on 20 friends being in new relationships but only four people being excluded. Were all 20 of them dating the same four people? Reminder for your next event: poly relationships are still relationships! It does look especially bad that your budget was so poorly planned it couldn't be adjusted for only four additional guests.

Since those four SOs are now "out of the picture" there isn't really anything you can do. If, however, you just happened to forget 16 of your friends' partners please find a way to accommodate them and send invites ASAP with your apologies.

Two corrections/questions for the crowd:
1. @PrettyGirlLost Isn't it standard to send invitations 6-8 weeks before the wedding? Assuming she sent them within the last couple weeks I don't think it's way too early.
2. A few people mentioned inviting any new SOs who pop up between now and the wedding, which would be very nice but it's not required. The rule is to invite any SOs who exist when the invites are sent.

No, I think 4-5 weeks is reasonable for invitations. You typically don't need final numbers for your venue or caterer until 1-1.5 weeks out. So there's no reason to send out invitations 2 months prior.

6 weeks would be pushing it on too early, and 8 weeks is definitely two early.

Sorry @PrettyGirlLost have to disagree! I think 6 weeks is a bit tight if people have to make travel arrangements. We sent ours out 8 weeks before and I don't think this was pushing it.

I could be wrong, but I thought that's what save the dates were for. They alert your OT guests that they have to plan for travel and tell everyone to mark their calendars.

Not everyone sends STDs and they aren't mandatory. 6-8 weeks is fine, and I think more and more people are sending them 8-10 weeks.

kimmiinthemitten · August 2016

charlotte989875 said:

I had no idea people actually used the phrase "no ring no bring" in real life. I just thought it was a terrible rhyme we used to describe really bad behavior. Learn something new everyday.

I have friends who are engaged without a ring! Whatever would do they do in this situation

@knottie#s, I think OP bailed because it doesn't matter who is telling her she's rude, passively or aggressively. She clearly believes she's okay and doesn't care if she burns the relationship with her FIL's or friends or cousins in the process.

The only rhyme I know is "no ding ding without the wedding ring." Hmm, I wonder how that would work as an arbitrary invitation rule.

DrillSergeantCat · August 2016

ScottishSarah said:
Sorry @PrettyGirlLost have to disagree! I think 6 weeks is a bit tight if people have to make travel arrangements. We sent ours out 8 weeks before and I don't think this was pushing it.

I sent mine at 6 weeks and had one couple decline because it wasn't enough time. We didn't send STDs, but I assume if we had they could have asked off work or switched weekends. I just assumed that them being in the same state it wouldn't be a problem.

hyechica81 · August 2016

you decided not to invite so because of no ring no bring so tacky. i would have never thought to do that i made sure everyone i invited that was in a relationship got invited. you find ways to cut in other areas to be able to afford them.. yes they may tell you they are ok with the arrangement now but some of them might not be.

rude rude rude

Knottie1447589109 · September 2016

I'm having a similar issue with a FMIL who can't seem to figure out if she wants to be involved or not. She has always given lackluster responses when my FH gives her information about our wedding. She's even said "Do I really need to know this?" when my FH has tried to include her and "I just need to know when to show up". But she's also complained to my FH's brother about not knowing anything. My FH is ready to throw in the towel and give up on her completely. But what I've decided to do is just ask for her input anyway. Sometimes I don't get much of a response, sometimes it takes her a week or so to get back with me but my plan is to keep asking her for her opinion. I don't actually need her help for anything but it makes me feel better knowing that I tried and that I did all that I can do to make her feel included. You have to choose what you can live with. I sleep better at night knowing that I'm doing all that I can regardless of the outcome.

julieanne912 · September 2016

Shoot, if we had followed the "no ring no bring" rule, then my now father in law's girlfriend wouldn't have been invited. Nevermind they've been together for 13 years, and own 3 homes and 2 businesses together, but there isn't a ring so she doesn't count I guess.

Also, my own parents got engaged after 2 weeks, they were married 25 years. Just because a relationship is new doesn't mean it's bullshit.

spockforprez · September 2016

And hey, no ring no bring even excludes engaged couples who opted to skip an e-ring!

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