Chit Chat

Parental Say in College Majors

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Re: Parental Say in College Majors

  • Years ago, I was in a new relation ship with a practicing psychologist.  He broke my heart when he quit his job and went back to school (far away) for an English degree.  He earned his PhD, and became a professor at a state college.
    He showed up at Mom's house a few times to check out my marital status.  If he had been willing to commit to me, I would have married him.  My DH is GREAT at commitment.
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  • I wish schools would start to tweak some of the requirements for your major.  For instance, I had to suffer through college trig and 2 levels of calculus as a requirement for a B.S. in bio.  Care to take a guess how often I used any of those concepts in my bio classes at the time or in the 12+ years I've been working as a molecular biologist?

    ZERO!!!!  On a good day I *might* use some basic algebra or ratios.

    Those 3 classes were a waste of time, aggravation, and brain cells.  Instead of using them as a weeding out course for all the pre-med and bio majors, how about allow us the time and freedom in our schedules to take something else related to our major that's of interest to us, or something outside our major that interests us!

    And no, those classes didn't foster any sort of critical thinking or problem solving skills I wasn't already developing in my other science courses.  All they did was drive me to drink and provide a current source of nightmares.
    As a fellow biology major, I couldn't agree more. 
    PrettyGirlLost
  • Relating to the subject of colleges setting different requirements for majoring and minoring- I heard of a school, I forget which one but it was like a large state school, where if you major in math they require you to minor in education, the point being to encourage people to become math teachers because pretty much everywhere is really, really short of math teachers. Anyone else ever heard of an arrangement like this? I'm torn because I think it's a creative approach to addressing the math teacher shortage, but I also would be very annoyed if I wanted to major in math and knew there was no chance I was going to go into teaching. 
    It is a question of keeping your options open.  Life is full of changes, and a teaching certification just might come in handy someday.
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  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost A Land Filled with Unicorns and Cat Hair member
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    CMGragain said:
    Relating to the subject of colleges setting different requirements for majoring and minoring- I heard of a school, I forget which one but it was like a large state school, where if you major in math they require you to minor in education, the point being to encourage people to become math teachers because pretty much everywhere is really, really short of math teachers. Anyone else ever heard of an arrangement like this? I'm torn because I think it's a creative approach to addressing the math teacher shortage, but I also would be very annoyed if I wanted to major in math and knew there was no chance I was going to go into teaching. 
    It is a question of keeping your options open.  Life is full of changes, and a teaching certification just might come in handy someday.
    Meh, not in my state- hence the guy I know who codes for the bank yet has a Masters degree in teaching, I forget the exact specialty.

    In my state, a teaching degree is basically a lost cause since the market is so over saturated with teachers and those with teaching degrees.  People sub for decades trying to accumulate enough seniority so that once a teacher in their district retires or dies they might have a shot at applying for the position.

    Meanwhile in the South I think they are in desperate need for teachers in some areas, right?  One of the issues is pay, though, from what I understand of people up here who have teaching degrees but no desire to move south. . . so they remain unemployed, or underemployed, or they switch careers entirely.

    *shrugs*

    I've read that nationwide the market is saturated with lawyers now, too.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


    SP29
  • Relating to the subject of colleges setting different requirements for majoring and minoring- I heard of a school, I forget which one but it was like a large state school, where if you major in math they require you to minor in education, the point being to encourage people to become math teachers because pretty much everywhere is really, really short of math teachers. Anyone else ever heard of an arrangement like this? I'm torn because I think it's a creative approach to addressing the math teacher shortage, but I also would be very annoyed if I wanted to major in math and knew there was no chance I was going to go into teaching. 


    My H was a math major and he would have been furious with something like that.  Would definitely not have chosen to go to that school.  His real interest was computer science...except they didn't have those degrees yet when he was in school.  So, if you wanted to work with computers, you typically majored in math.  He has zero interest in education as a major/minor and there are few jobs he would probably despise more than being a teacher.

    While that school is coming from a good place, I think it is an atrocious policy.  Nobody needs a minor if they don't want one.  I chose to have one and it essentially added one extra semester.

    What would be much more admirable is to offer heavy incentives, but not force people.  Like free/discounted tuition in the subject of education after a person as X number of credits in math.


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  • I went to a liberal arts school, and we had an extensive core curriculum including 8 theology and philosophy classes (plus english, foreign language, social studies, language, art history, etc.).  I admit it WAS more challenging for the STEM kind of majors, but my school still graduated a good percentage of pre-law, pre-med, engineering, business, etc. students.  It was more difficult (less room for electives), but not impossible.  And I would argue that those graduates had something special to offer with their humanities background.  

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  • CMGragain said:
    Relating to the subject of colleges setting different requirements for majoring and minoring- I heard of a school, I forget which one but it was like a large state school, where if you major in math they require you to minor in education, the point being to encourage people to become math teachers because pretty much everywhere is really, really short of math teachers. Anyone else ever heard of an arrangement like this? I'm torn because I think it's a creative approach to addressing the math teacher shortage, but I also would be very annoyed if I wanted to major in math and knew there was no chance I was going to go into teaching. 
    It is a question of keeping your options open.  Life is full of changes, and a teaching certification just might come in handy someday.
    Just to be clear, you can not be certified to teach based on just getting a minor in education anywhere that I know of. Most states require you to take multiple standardized tests to become certified, and many school districts around where I live won't even consider hiring you if you don't have a Masters.
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  • CMGragain said:
    Relating to the subject of colleges setting different requirements for majoring and minoring- I heard of a school, I forget which one but it was like a large state school, where if you major in math they require you to minor in education, the point being to encourage people to become math teachers because pretty much everywhere is really, really short of math teachers. Anyone else ever heard of an arrangement like this? I'm torn because I think it's a creative approach to addressing the math teacher shortage, but I also would be very annoyed if I wanted to major in math and knew there was no chance I was going to go into teaching. 
    It is a question of keeping your options open.  Life is full of changes, and a teaching certification just might come in handy someday.
    Meh, not in my state- hence the guy I know who codes for the bank yet has a Masters degree in teaching, I forget the exact specialty.

    In my state, a teaching degree is basically a lost cause since the market is so over saturated with teachers and those with teaching degrees.  People sub for decades trying to accumulate enough seniority so that once a teacher in their district retires or dies they might have a shot at applying for the position.

    Meanwhile in the South I think they are in desperate need for teachers in some areas, right?  One of the issues is pay, though, from what I understand of people up here who have teaching degrees but no desire to move south. . . so they remain unemployed, or underemployed, or they switch careers entirely.

    *shrugs*

    I've read that nationwide the market is saturated with lawyers now, too.
    That's really interesting, I didn't realize teachers aren't crazy in-demand everywhere! Okay that sounds stupid but I do live in a southern state and know mostly people from the south so I guess that's why.

    Do you know if all fields of teaching are equally over-saturated? I'm just curious- even in my state where there is a bad teacher shortage in many regions, it's still somewhat hard to get a job as a social studies teacher, whereas if you are a math or special education teacher you literally will be hired before you finish school.  
  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost A Land Filled with Unicorns and Cat Hair member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited September 2016
    CMGragain said:
    Relating to the subject of colleges setting different requirements for majoring and minoring- I heard of a school, I forget which one but it was like a large state school, where if you major in math they require you to minor in education, the point being to encourage people to become math teachers because pretty much everywhere is really, really short of math teachers. Anyone else ever heard of an arrangement like this? I'm torn because I think it's a creative approach to addressing the math teacher shortage, but I also would be very annoyed if I wanted to major in math and knew there was no chance I was going to go into teaching. 
    It is a question of keeping your options open.  Life is full of changes, and a teaching certification just might come in handy someday.
    Meh, not in my state- hence the guy I know who codes for the bank yet has a Masters degree in teaching, I forget the exact specialty.

    In my state, a teaching degree is basically a lost cause since the market is so over saturated with teachers and those with teaching degrees.  People sub for decades trying to accumulate enough seniority so that once a teacher in their district retires or dies they might have a shot at applying for the position.

    Meanwhile in the South I think they are in desperate need for teachers in some areas, right?  One of the issues is pay, though, from what I understand of people up here who have teaching degrees but no desire to move south. . . so they remain unemployed, or underemployed, or they switch careers entirely.

    *shrugs*

    I've read that nationwide the market is saturated with lawyers now, too.
    That's really interesting, I didn't realize teachers aren't crazy in-demand everywhere! Okay that sounds stupid but I do live in a southern state and know mostly people from the south so I guess that's why.

    Do you know if all fields of teaching are equally over-saturated? I'm just curious- even in my state where there is a bad teacher shortage in many regions, it's still somewhat hard to get a job as a social studies teacher, whereas if you are a math or special education teacher you literally will be hired before you finish school.  
    In PA we have too many teachers, period.  Primary Ed, Secondary Ed, doesnt matter the subject, we have too many teachers and no jobs.

    ETA: It's been like this for at least 3 decades, probably more, and its a pretty well known phenomenon, so I have no idea why ppl continue to get teaching degrees if they are unwilling to move out of state.

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    TheMostHappy15
  • CMGragain said:
    Relating to the subject of colleges setting different requirements for majoring and minoring- I heard of a school, I forget which one but it was like a large state school, where if you major in math they require you to minor in education, the point being to encourage people to become math teachers because pretty much everywhere is really, really short of math teachers. Anyone else ever heard of an arrangement like this? I'm torn because I think it's a creative approach to addressing the math teacher shortage, but I also would be very annoyed if I wanted to major in math and knew there was no chance I was going to go into teaching. 
    It is a question of keeping your options open.  Life is full of changes, and a teaching certification just might come in handy someday.
    Meh, not in my state- hence the guy I know who codes for the bank yet has a Masters degree in teaching, I forget the exact specialty.

    In my state, a teaching degree is basically a lost cause since the market is so over saturated with teachers and those with teaching degrees.  People sub for decades trying to accumulate enough seniority so that once a teacher in their district retires or dies they might have a shot at applying for the position.

    Meanwhile in the South I think they are in desperate need for teachers in some areas, right?  One of the issues is pay, though, from what I understand of people up here who have teaching degrees but no desire to move south. . . so they remain unemployed, or underemployed, or they switch careers entirely.

    *shrugs*

    I've read that nationwide the market is saturated with lawyers now, too.
    That's really interesting, I didn't realize teachers aren't crazy in-demand everywhere! Okay that sounds stupid but I do live in a southern state and know mostly people from the south so I guess that's why.

    Do you know if all fields of teaching are equally over-saturated? I'm just curious- even in my state where there is a bad teacher shortage in many regions, it's still somewhat hard to get a job as a social studies teacher, whereas if you are a math or special education teacher you literally will be hired before you finish school.  

    I live in New Orleans and, although it has been quite a few years, there used to be a billboard along the freeway advertising for teachers to move to Houston.  It was pretty blatant!!!  It said something like, "Attention Teachers.  Not paid enough?  Come to Houston!  Starting salaries are $X."
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  • madamerwinmadamerwin member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited September 2016
    CMGragain said:
    Relating to the subject of colleges setting different requirements for majoring and minoring- I heard of a school, I forget which one but it was like a large state school, where if you major in math they require you to minor in education, the point being to encourage people to become math teachers because pretty much everywhere is really, really short of math teachers. Anyone else ever heard of an arrangement like this? I'm torn because I think it's a creative approach to addressing the math teacher shortage, but I also would be very annoyed if I wanted to major in math and knew there was no chance I was going to go into teaching. 
    It is a question of keeping your options open.  Life is full of changes, and a teaching certification just might come in handy someday.
    Meh, not in my state- hence the guy I know who codes for the bank yet has a Masters degree in teaching, I forget the exact specialty.

    In my state, a teaching degree is basically a lost cause since the market is so over saturated with teachers and those with teaching degrees.  People sub for decades trying to accumulate enough seniority so that once a teacher in their district retires or dies they might have a shot at applying for the position.

    Meanwhile in the South I think they are in desperate need for teachers in some areas, right?  One of the issues is pay, though, from what I understand of people up here who have teaching degrees but no desire to move south. . . so they remain unemployed, or underemployed, or they switch careers entirely.

    *shrugs*

    I've read that nationwide the market is saturated with lawyers now, too.
    That's really interesting, I didn't realize teachers aren't crazy in-demand everywhere! Okay that sounds stupid but I do live in a southern state and know mostly people from the south so I guess that's why.

    Do you know if all fields of teaching are equally over-saturated? I'm just curious- even in my state where there is a bad teacher shortage in many regions, it's still somewhat hard to get a job as a social studies teacher, whereas if you are a math or special education teacher you literally will be hired before you finish school.  
    I looked into teaching too, and in my state (OR), special education is one of the few areas where you can easily get a teaching job right out of school. Otherwise, it can be very, very difficult to find a job, especially in or near the big cities. 

    Two of my sisters are teachers in Northern CA, and one of them JUST landed a permanent position as an elementary school teacher after many years of temporary (i.e. being laid off each year) and substitute positions. The other one has been hopping from private school to private school every year or two, because there are SO many qualified applicants to public schools in the Bay Area that landing a job in the public school system is next to impossible.

    That's basically why I chose not to go in to teaching - there was a very good chance I would not have been able to get a job without uprooting my life, which I am not able to do due to my husband's career.

    I do know that if you're willing to move to certain states (in the southeast and midwest), there are teacher shortages there. But everywhere I've lived has been oversaturated.

    ETA clarity
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  • CMGragain said:
    Relating to the subject of colleges setting different requirements for majoring and minoring- I heard of a school, I forget which one but it was like a large state school, where if you major in math they require you to minor in education, the point being to encourage people to become math teachers because pretty much everywhere is really, really short of math teachers. Anyone else ever heard of an arrangement like this? I'm torn because I think it's a creative approach to addressing the math teacher shortage, but I also would be very annoyed if I wanted to major in math and knew there was no chance I was going to go into teaching. 
    It is a question of keeping your options open.  Life is full of changes, and a teaching certification just might come in handy someday.
    Meh, not in my state- hence the guy I know who codes for the bank yet has a Masters degree in teaching, I forget the exact specialty.

    In my state, a teaching degree is basically a lost cause since the market is so over saturated with teachers and those with teaching degrees.  People sub for decades trying to accumulate enough seniority so that once a teacher in their district retires or dies they might have a shot at applying for the position.

    Meanwhile in the South I think they are in desperate need for teachers in some areas, right?  One of the issues is pay, though, from what I understand of people up here who have teaching degrees but no desire to move south. . . so they remain unemployed, or underemployed, or they switch careers entirely.

    *shrugs*

    I've read that nationwide the market is saturated with lawyers now, too.
    That's really interesting, I didn't realize teachers aren't crazy in-demand everywhere! Okay that sounds stupid but I do live in a southern state and know mostly people from the south so I guess that's why.

    Do you know if all fields of teaching are equally over-saturated? I'm just curious- even in my state where there is a bad teacher shortage in many regions, it's still somewhat hard to get a job as a social studies teacher, whereas if you are a math or special education teacher you literally will be hired before you finish school.  
    I looked into teaching too, and in my state (OR), special education is one of the few areas where you can easily get a teaching job right out of school. Otherwise, it can be very, very difficult to find a job, especially in or near the big cities. 

    Two of my sisters are teachers in Northern CA, and one of them JUST landed a permanent position as an elementary school teacher after many years of temporary (i.e. being laid off each year) and substitute positions. The other one has been hopping from private school to private school every year or two, because there are SO many qualified applicants to public schools in the Bay Area that landing a job in the public school system is next to impossible.

    That's basically why I chose not to go in to teaching - there was a very good chance I would not have been able to get a job without uprooting my life, which I am not able to do due to my husband's career.

    I do know that if you're willing to move to certain states (in the southeast and midwest), there are teacher shortages there. But everywhere I've lived has been oversaturated.

    ETA clarity
    Yes it's my impression special education is pretty much in demand everywhere- which is understandable, that must be SUCH a hard job.

    The thing about where I live (VA) is yes, there are definitely areas where you would have to wait years to get a teaching job. Good school systems in desirable communities are always going to be competitive- we just have other areas that are either "bad" school systems or rapidly growing school systems (like Northern VA) so on the whole it balances out that the state has a shortage... so in a way it may be kind of like what you describe, you just have to be willing to move. I guess that's not very different from most jobs- in many fields you need to just go where the industry is- I think maybe people just perceive it differently because it's like "Hey, they have schools everywhere so if I become a teacher I can live wherever I want!"
  • CMGragain said:
    Relating to the subject of colleges setting different requirements for majoring and minoring- I heard of a school, I forget which one but it was like a large state school, where if you major in math they require you to minor in education, the point being to encourage people to become math teachers because pretty much everywhere is really, really short of math teachers. Anyone else ever heard of an arrangement like this? I'm torn because I think it's a creative approach to addressing the math teacher shortage, but I also would be very annoyed if I wanted to major in math and knew there was no chance I was going to go into teaching. 
    It is a question of keeping your options open.  Life is full of changes, and a teaching certification just might come in handy someday.
    Meh, not in my state- hence the guy I know who codes for the bank yet has a Masters degree in teaching, I forget the exact specialty.

    In my state, a teaching degree is basically a lost cause since the market is so over saturated with teachers and those with teaching degrees.  People sub for decades trying to accumulate enough seniority so that once a teacher in their district retires or dies they might have a shot at applying for the position.

    Meanwhile in the South I think they are in desperate need for teachers in some areas, right?  One of the issues is pay, though, from what I understand of people up here who have teaching degrees but no desire to move south. . . so they remain unemployed, or underemployed, or they switch careers entirely.

    *shrugs*

    I've read that nationwide the market is saturated with lawyers now, too.
    That's really interesting, I didn't realize teachers aren't crazy in-demand everywhere! Okay that sounds stupid but I do live in a southern state and know mostly people from the south so I guess that's why.

    Do you know if all fields of teaching are equally over-saturated? I'm just curious- even in my state where there is a bad teacher shortage in many regions, it's still somewhat hard to get a job as a social studies teacher, whereas if you are a math or special education teacher you literally will be hired before you finish school.  
    I looked into teaching too, and in my state (OR), special education is one of the few areas where you can easily get a teaching job right out of school. Otherwise, it can be very, very difficult to find a job, especially in or near the big cities. 

    Two of my sisters are teachers in Northern CA, and one of them JUST landed a permanent position as an elementary school teacher after many years of temporary (i.e. being laid off each year) and substitute positions. The other one has been hopping from private school to private school every year or two, because there are SO many qualified applicants to public schools in the Bay Area that landing a job in the public school system is next to impossible.

    That's basically why I chose not to go in to teaching - there was a very good chance I would not have been able to get a job without uprooting my life, which I am not able to do due to my husband's career.

    I do know that if you're willing to move to certain states (in the southeast and midwest), there are teacher shortages there. But everywhere I've lived has been oversaturated.

    ETA clarity
    Yes it's my impression special education is pretty much in demand everywhere- which is understandable, that must be SUCH a hard job.

    The thing about where I live (VA) is yes, there are definitely areas where you would have to wait years to get a teaching job. Good school systems in desirable communities are always going to be competitive- we just have other areas that are either "bad" school systems or rapidly growing school systems (like Northern VA) so on the whole it balances out that the state has a shortage... so in a way it may be kind of like what you describe, you just have to be willing to move. I guess that's not very different from most jobs- in many fields you need to just go where the industry is- I think maybe people just perceive it differently because it's like "Hey, they have schools everywhere so if I become a teacher I can live wherever I want!"
    That's what I was thinking. When my husband finished his graduate degree in chemistry, he had to move from our preferred area. You go where the job is located. I never have understood not being flexible enough to move (unless you have a SO's career to consider also). Currently my son and his fiance are living where her career dictates. That may change in the future or it may not.
  • WinstonsGirlWinstonsGirl The Cold North member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    edited September 2016
    French, or some second languages are high in demand here.  Most of the internal postings last spring were elementary FSL, music or Kindergarten.  PE, you're hooped, though it's much easier to get a teaching job now than it was 5 years ago.  

    ETA - I find it interesting that so many districts down south prefer Master's degrees.  It's much rarer up here, though they prefer/"require" that Principals have their Masters.  Most of the staff I have worked with doesn't.   

  • CMGragainCMGragain member
    10000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 25 Answers
    edited September 2016
    CMGragain said:
    Relating to the subject of colleges setting different requirements for majoring and minoring- I heard of a school, I forget which one but it was like a large state school, where if you major in math they require you to minor in education, the point being to encourage people to become math teachers because pretty much everywhere is really, really short of math teachers. Anyone else ever heard of an arrangement like this? I'm torn because I think it's a creative approach to addressing the math teacher shortage, but I also would be very annoyed if I wanted to major in math and knew there was no chance I was going to go into teaching. 
    It is a question of keeping your options open.  Life is full of changes, and a teaching certification just might come in handy someday.
    Meh, not in my state- hence the guy I know who codes for the bank yet has a Masters degree in teaching, I forget the exact specialty.

    In my state, a teaching degree is basically a lost cause since the market is so over saturated with teachers and those with teaching degrees.  People sub for decades trying to accumulate enough seniority so that once a teacher in their district retires or dies they might have a shot at applying for the position.

    Meanwhile in the South I think they are in desperate need for teachers in some areas, right?  One of the issues is pay, though, from what I understand of people up here who have teaching degrees but no desire to move south. . . so they remain unemployed, or underemployed, or they switch careers entirely.

    *shrugs*

    I've read that nationwide the market is saturated with lawyers now, too.
    That's really interesting, I didn't realize teachers aren't crazy in-demand everywhere! Okay that sounds stupid but I do live in a southern state and know mostly people from the south so I guess that's why.

    Do you know if all fields of teaching are equally over-saturated? I'm just curious- even in my state where there is a bad teacher shortage in many regions, it's still somewhat hard to get a job as a social studies teacher, whereas if you are a math or special education teacher you literally will be hired before you finish school.  
    In PA we have too many teachers, period.  Primary Ed, Secondary Ed, doesnt matter the subject, we have too many teachers and no jobs.

    ETA: It's been like this for at least 3 decades, probably more, and its a pretty well known phenomenon, so I have no idea why ppl continue to get teaching degrees if they are unwilling to move out of state.
    This is why so many new teachers in Maryland are from Pennsylvania.  If they can survive the culture shock, they get good pay and benefits.
    In Maryland a bachelor's degree with a minor in education will get you a job, but if you want to keep it for more than 10 years, you have to get a master's degree - in anything.  My daughter got hers before getting married.
    One thing about teaching kids of any age - it is NEVER boring!
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  • CMGragainCMGragain member
    10000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 25 Answers
    edited September 2016
    CMGragain said:
    Relating to the subject of colleges setting different requirements for majoring and minoring- I heard of a school, I forget which one but it was like a large state school, where if you major in math they require you to minor in education, the point being to encourage people to become math teachers because pretty much everywhere is really, really short of math teachers. Anyone else ever heard of an arrangement like this? I'm torn because I think it's a creative approach to addressing the math teacher shortage, but I also would be very annoyed if I wanted to major in math and knew there was no chance I was going to go into teaching. 
    It is a question of keeping your options open.  Life is full of changes, and a teaching certification just might come in handy someday.
    Just to be clear, you can not be certified to teach based on just getting a minor in education anywhere that I know of. Most states require you to take multiple standardized tests to become certified, and many school districts around where I live won't even consider hiring you if you don't have a Masters.
    This depends on the subject area.  In high school, you need to major in your subject, not general education.  I was a music teacher, with a bachelor of music degree from the U. of Iowa, and extra education credits. I was certified to teach music, grades K - 12, but nothing else.  Same goes for art and physical education.  The downside, is that music and art programs are being cut all over the country, and jobs are either more demanding, or phased out.  This is why I encouraged my daughter to major in elementary education.  Easier to get a job.  She minored in music.
    I thought those standardized tests were a joke.  No challenge to me.  They seemed to be designed to make sure that you could actually read and write.
    In any job, you start at the bottom and work your way up.  I taught in rural Iowa schools, and then in inner-suburbia schools.  (Inside the Washington DC Beltway).  I took what jobs I could find and moved with them.  For five years, I taught for peanuts at a few private nursery schools, part time, to supplement my family's income.  That was available in my area - not a higher paying job with benefits that I was qualified for.  I am proud to have helped my family, and I enjoyed those kids.  Playing church organ was also grossly underpaid, but I could help my family without putting my kids in daycare.
    Teaching is a very flexible profession, but one size does not fit all.

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  • @CMGragain, where I live, you must have a teaching degree. My sister taught music for a while but she still had to have her degree.
  • DrillSergeantCatDrillSergeantCat Oklahoma City, OK member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary First Answer
    ernursej said:
    @CMGragain, where I live, you must have a teaching degree. My sister taught music for a while but she still had to have her degree.
    This will tell you a lot about the state of education in Oklahoma. You have to have a bachelor's degree in anything, then you can get a teaching certificate.
    ernursej
  • In VA (at least all the areas I'm familiar with, which is most but not all) schools are definitely moving towards a strong preference for an undergraduate degree in the subject area you want to teach and a Masters in education/teaching. That applies to secondary subject-area teachers as well as arts and other "elective" type teachers. Even for elementary teachers, there is a strong preference for candidates who have a Masters, though it doesn't really matter what they have their undergraduate degree in since they don't teach one specific subject (though I have heard it helps to NOT have it in education, since you're getting the info you need on the pedagogy of teaching through your MA). 

    Personally I think this approach makes a lot of sense. I think teaching, like most things, is a skill you need to study and develop, so even if you have content expertise in your subject you're probably not going to be well-equipped to just dive into teaching. I also think it's important for teachers to have genuine passion for and considerable knowledge about the subjects they want to teach, which is why it makes much more sense (to me) for a person to focus on that in undergrad rather than spending all of school learning how to teach but not developing a strong baseline of content knowledge. 
    vikinganna87
  • CMGragain said:
    Relating to the subject of colleges setting different requirements for majoring and minoring- I heard of a school, I forget which one but it was like a large state school, where if you major in math they require you to minor in education, the point being to encourage people to become math teachers because pretty much everywhere is really, really short of math teachers. Anyone else ever heard of an arrangement like this? I'm torn because I think it's a creative approach to addressing the math teacher shortage, but I also would be very annoyed if I wanted to major in math and knew there was no chance I was going to go into teaching. 
    It is a question of keeping your options open.  Life is full of changes, and a teaching certification just might come in handy someday.
    Just to be clear, you can not be certified to teach based on just getting a minor in education anywhere that I know of. Most states require you to take multiple standardized tests to become certified, and many school districts around where I live won't even consider hiring you if you don't have a Masters.
    In Ontario where I live you have to have two teachables, which means a double major, sometimes you can use your minor depending on what it is. You have to be an honours student to have a double major and a minor degree anyway. 

    Teachables are English, History, Math, French,  Religion (Catholic Board), Classical Studies (Latin & Greek), Business, Dramatic Arts, Geography, Physical Education (Kinesiology), Philosophy, Native Languages, Music, Visual Art, Political Science, Computer Science or Law.

    Unfortunately the teaching market in Ontario is severely oversaturated and many new teachers go overseas for work.  
    SP29
  • DrillSergeantCatDrillSergeantCat Oklahoma City, OK member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary First Answer
    This discussion regarding education is one reason I want to move. 

  • I've read that nationwide the market is saturated with lawyers now, too.

    So so so so so so true. I went to Law School in Chicago. It was a rare occasion when I was on the train or at a bar and I didn't meet or overhear a lawyer or law student. Chicago has 7 law schools. I graduated at the top of my class (number 10 out of 220-ish) and I did not have a job offer. Basically no one did. 

    My Fiance and I moved to New Jersey so I could do a LLM (masters of laws) program at NYU. Within 2 weeks of taking the bar, he had a job with a firm in New Jersey. And 2 months into my LLM, I found a job in New York. 

    There are people I graduated with in Chicago who still do not have a legal job. Some are working at a Verizon call center... 
    PrettyGirlLostvikinganna87

  • To the point about full majors- there are states that regulate general education. (Maybe they all do and I've only noticed the ones with more credits than usual.) Indiana and Minnesota come to mind. An institution can't grant a degree to a resident of that state without credit hours spread over the social sciences, humanities, communications, math, etc. 

    I would definitely advise balance. To the art major, minor in business and open a gallery someday. To the music performance major, take education courses so you can also teach. Strengthen a humanities major with more math courses for a future in business. That kind of thing. Even when people are passionate about their major, it's easy to lose track of the value of the mandatory general education. I love the story above about the chem/painter. 
    Stuck:

    Doesn't IL have weird Gen Ed requirements too? I used to get schools and programs approved in IL (and other states) and I remember having issue with some of the IL gen ed requirements - either that it required an extra course or maybe it was just that they didn't agree with our Gen Eds and therefore an extra had to be added. 3 years removed it is all a bit blurry

  • I graduated with a Bachelors of Science degree from a liberal arts college and all I got for it was debt. Choosing that college was the biggest mistake I ever made. But I was young, stupid and idealistic. I wish my parents had tried to talk me out if it and encouraged me to go to the UW  instead of the worthless school I chose to go to because I stupidly thought it would get respect in the environmental community but I was dead wrong. My degree is worthless because the liberal arts school I went to is worthless.

    If i had a kid, damn straight I would do everything in my power to dissuade liberal arts.   Damn straight I would refuse to pay for it.  Because I have first hand, real world experience of what a colossal mistake it is.  If I had gone to a respected college I would have a stood a chance.  

    DrillSergeantCat
  • I graduated with a Bachelors of Science degree from a liberal arts college and all I got for it was debt. Choosing that college was the biggest mistake I ever made. But I was young, stupid and idealistic. I wish my parents had tried to talk me out if it and encouraged me to go to the UW  instead of the worthless school I chose to go to because I stupidly thought it would get respect in the environmental community but I was dead wrong. My degree is worthless because the liberal arts school I went to is worthless.

    If i had a kid, damn straight I would do everything in my power to dissuade liberal arts.   Damn straight I would refuse to pay for it.  Because I have first hand, real world experience of what a colossal mistake it is.  If I had gone to a respected college I would have a stood a chance.  
    But that sounds like an issue of what college you went to, not what you majored in. If they wanted to study a liberal arts subject at a school that was known for being a good liberal arts school, wouldn't it be kind of a non-issue?
    labrocharlotte989875STARMOON44KeptInStitches
  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost A Land Filled with Unicorns and Cat Hair member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    I graduated with a Bachelors of Science degree from a liberal arts college and all I got for it was debt. Choosing that college was the biggest mistake I ever made. But I was young, stupid and idealistic. I wish my parents had tried to talk me out if it and encouraged me to go to the UW  instead of the worthless school I chose to go to because I stupidly thought it would get respect in the environmental community but I was dead wrong. My degree is worthless because the liberal arts school I went to is worthless.

    If i had a kid, damn straight I would do everything in my power to dissuade liberal arts.   Damn straight I would refuse to pay for it.  Because I have first hand, real world experience of what a colossal mistake it is.  If I had gone to a respected college I would have a stood a chance.  
    A B.S. in what specifically?  And what field where you trying to get into exactly?  "Environmental" is a broad category.

    I don't think your issue was with a liberal arts college but perhaps with yours specifically, or your chosen major and/or your desired field of occupation.

    I went to a liberal arts college (B.S. in Bio) that is extremely strong in all their science degrees and has very high placement in grad school, med school, and the job market outside of undergrad bc it's a well respected college and has name recognition.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


    DrillSergeantCatTheMostHappy15SP29redwoodoriginal
  • ernursej said:
    @CMGragain, where I live, you must have a teaching degree. My sister taught music for a while but she still had to have her degree.
    Maybe I wasn't clear.  I majored in music and minored in education.  It took an extra semester to do this,  People who did not minor in education could not teach, and most were not able to find jobs unless they were extrordinarily talented.  (Like, they won the Met auditions.)
    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
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