Happy US election day!!

DrillSergeantCat · November 2016

I saw something yesterday that said, "Hoping Trump fails is like hoping the pilot crashes the plane you're on. We're all on the same plane." It makes sense. What I took from @CMGragain was that people shouldn't hope Trump fails, because he'll take the plane down with him. I will say, I don't understand what outcome the protesters are looking for. Just their voice to be heard again that they don't like Trump?

levioosa · November 2016

**Removed for ToS violation**

No, I'll continue to have my thoughts and feelings about this election. Because this isn't just my candidate losing. It's so, so much more.

glasgowtolondon · November 2016

DrillSergeantCat said:

I saw something yesterday that said, "Hoping Trump fails is like hoping the pilot crashes the plane you're on. We're all on the same plane." It makes sense. What I took from @CMGragain was that people shouldn't hope Trump fails, because he'll take the plane down with him. I will say, I don't understand what outcome the protesters are looking for. Just their voice to be heard again that they don't like Trump?

I feel like that is as good a reason as any though. You should be allowed to vocalise your objection as many times as you like, that doesn't mean not recognising a result. I know you didn't say that they weren't, I just saw a lot of people complaining about protests after the brexit vote in the UK like no one was allowed to say they were unhappy and the aftermath of your elections seems to be following exactly the same pattern.

DrillSergeantCat · November 2016

glasgowtolondon said:
I feel like that is as good a reason as any though. You should be allowed to vocalise your objection as many times as you like, that doesn't mean not recognising a result. I know you didn't say that they weren't, I just saw a lot of people complaining about protests after the brexit vote in the UK like no one was allowed to say they were unhappy and the aftermath of your elections seems to be following exactly the same pattern.

It just seems like a waste of time to me. To me, casting your vote for the other (or another) candidate was having your voice heard. I just feel like protesting should have an outcome. Like in Ferguson, their protests resulted in a federal investigation which resulted in changes beginning. People are shouting "Not my president" and saying they refuse to accept the results of the election. I just don't see how these protests will affect change.

kimmiinthemitten · November 2016

DrillSergeantCat said:

I saw something yesterday that said, "Hoping Trump fails is like hoping the pilot crashes the plane you're on. We're all on the same plane." It makes sense. What I took from @CMGragain was that people shouldn't hope Trump fails, because he'll take the plane down with him. I will say, I don't understand what outcome the protesters are looking for. Just their voice to be heard again that they don't like Trump?

This depends on your definition of the word fail I don't want to see him fail the nation. However, I will be doing everything I can as a citizen to see to it that many of his agenda points in his 'First 100 day' plan fail.

Namely dismantling the ACA. I won't obstruct real reform over our healthcare system, but let's not pretend we can replace what took years to write in 100 days without extreme consequences.

TrixieJess · November 2016

DrillSergeantCat said:

glasgowtolondon said:
I feel like that is as good a reason as any though. You should be allowed to vocalise your objection as many times as you like, that doesn't mean not recognising a result. I know you didn't say that they weren't, I just saw a lot of people complaining about protests after the brexit vote in the UK like no one was allowed to say they were unhappy and the aftermath of your elections seems to be following exactly the same pattern.

It just seems like a waste of time to me. To me, casting your vote for the other (or another) candidate was having your voice heard. I just feel like protesting should have an outcome. Like in Ferguson, their protests resulted in a federal investigation which resulted in changes beginning. People are shouting "Not my president" and saying they refuse to accept the results of the election. I just don't see how these protests will affect change.

All protests affect change. It's how revolutions happen. It's how change happens, it's how the sixties happened. Malcolm X, MLK, Suffragettes, Standing Rock, Kent University; those are American examples. Worldwide: Arab Spring, Women in Iceland, Oka in Quebec, plus lots more. Please look into the past and the present, then come spew how things won't change.

mrsconn23 · November 2016

kimmiinthemitten said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

I saw something yesterday that said, "Hoping Trump fails is like hoping the pilot crashes the plane you're on. We're all on the same plane." It makes sense. What I took from @CMGragain was that people shouldn't hope Trump fails, because he'll take the plane down with him. I will say, I don't understand what outcome the protesters are looking for. Just their voice to be heard again that they don't like Trump?

This depends on your definition of the word fail I don't want to see him fail the nation. However, I will be doing everything I can as a citizen to see to it that many of his agenda points in his 'First 100 day' plan fail.

Namely dismantling the ACA. I won't obstruct real reform over our healthcare system, but let's not pretend we can replace what took years to write in 100 days without extreme consequences.

First 100 days for most president-elects are so pie-in-the-sky, especially when it's a change from D to R and vice versa. They have to live up to campaign promises. McConnell (whom I cannot stand, FTR) has already come out and said that there's many items on the list that are simply not going to happen.

However, that said, dismantling ACA is going to do a fuck-ton of damage unless there's some 'great' plan to replace it and I don't see that. That will be the quickest path to him not getting a second term (IF he doesn't get impeached, which I still think is a strong possibility. One of his first trials starts next month.)

Heffalump · November 2016

DrillSergeantCat said:

glasgowtolondon said:
I feel like that is as good a reason as any though. You should be allowed to vocalise your objection as many times as you like, that doesn't mean not recognising a result. I know you didn't say that they weren't, I just saw a lot of people complaining about protests after the brexit vote in the UK like no one was allowed to say they were unhappy and the aftermath of your elections seems to be following exactly the same pattern.

It just seems like a waste of time to me. To me, casting your vote for the other (or another) candidate was having your voice heard. I just feel like protesting should have an outcome. Like in Ferguson, their protests resulted in a federal investigation which resulted in changes beginning. People are shouting "Not my president" and saying they refuse to accept the results of the election. I just don't see how these protests will affect change.

Sometimes individual protests don't register, but they allow the next one to take root, and the one after that, and the one after that.

Colonists sent petitions to King George III, and he blew them off. So they stepped it up, and there was the Boston Tea Party. Fast forward, and they won their independence.

When Rosa Parks refused to move to the back of the bus, no one said "Okay, fine, civil rights for everyone!" It was one moment in a long series of protests that continue to this day.

TBH, I am pretty up on current events and knew nothing about the Dakota Access Pipeline until their protest gained momentum. Nothing has changed, yet. Maybe it won't...but maybe it will.

If nothing else, they allow people to express their opinions, call attention to otherwise overlooked issues, and tell the people in power that the public is paying attention and is not indifferent to their actions.

DrillSergeantCat · November 2016

TrixieJess said:
All protests affect change. It's how revolutions happen. It's how change happens, it's how the sixties happened. Malcolm X, MLK, Suffragettes, Standing Rock, Kent University; those are American examples. Worldwide: Arab Spring, Women in Iceland, Oka in Quebec, plus lots more. Please look into the past and the present, then come spew how things won't change.

I'm not spewing anything. I'm simply saying that I don't see what the end goal with these protests is. In all those American protests, there was an end goal.

TrixieJess · November 2016

Heffalump said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

glasgowtolondon said:
I feel like that is as good a reason as any though. You should be allowed to vocalise your objection as many times as you like, that doesn't mean not recognising a result. I know you didn't say that they weren't, I just saw a lot of people complaining about protests after the brexit vote in the UK like no one was allowed to say they were unhappy and the aftermath of your elections seems to be following exactly the same pattern.

It just seems like a waste of time to me. To me, casting your vote for the other (or another) candidate was having your voice heard. I just feel like protesting should have an outcome. Like in Ferguson, their protests resulted in a federal investigation which resulted in changes beginning. People are shouting "Not my president" and saying they refuse to accept the results of the election. I just don't see how these protests will affect change.

Sometimes individual protests don't register, but they allow the next one to take root, and the one after that, and the one after that.
Colonists sent petitions to King George III, and he blew them off. So they stepped it up, and there was the Boston Tea Party. Fast forward, and they won their independence.
When Rosa Parks refused to move to the back of the bus, no one said "Okay, fine, civil rights for everyone!" It was one moment in a long series of protests that continue to this day.
TBH, I am pretty up on current events and knew nothing about the Dakota Access Pipeline until their protest gained momentum. Nothing has changed, yet. Maybe it won't...but maybe it will.
If nothing else, they allow people to express their opinions, call attention to otherwise overlooked issues, and the people in power that the public is paying attention and is not indifferent to their actions.

Indigenous rights are a big thing up here and I have ton of friends who are involved with the various pipeline protests across Canada. DAPL is a big clusterfuck. It's not going to end well if the protests are anything like what has happened in the past 20 years up here with sovereign Native lands and rights. If all else fails, it will teach people about the abuses and misuses the governments of North America have perpetrated against indigenous peoples and the deplorable conditions on some of the reserves.

kimmiinthemitten · November 2016

mrsconn23 said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

I saw something yesterday that said, "Hoping Trump fails is like hoping the pilot crashes the plane you're on. We're all on the same plane." It makes sense. What I took from @CMGragain was that people shouldn't hope Trump fails, because he'll take the plane down with him. I will say, I don't understand what outcome the protesters are looking for. Just their voice to be heard again that they don't like Trump?

This depends on your definition of the word fail I don't want to see him fail the nation. However, I will be doing everything I can as a citizen to see to it that many of his agenda points in his 'First 100 day' plan fail.

Namely dismantling the ACA. I won't obstruct real reform over our healthcare system, but let's not pretend we can replace what took years to write in 100 days without extreme consequences.

First 100 days for most president-elects are so pie-in-the-sky, especially when it's a change from D to R and vice versa. They have to live up to campaign promises. McConnell (whom I cannot stand, FTR) has already come out and said that there's many items on the list that are simply not going to happen.

However, that said, dismantling ACA is going to do a fuck-ton of damage unless there's some 'great' plan to replace it and I don't see that. That will be the quickest path to him not getting a second term (IF he doesn't get impeached, which I still think is a strong possibility. One of his first trials starts next month.)

McConnell is only pissed because of those items is term limits for congress. Fastest way to get them to act is to threaten their job security.

But there are a lot of items on there that can be quickly done. Like overturning Obama's executive orders including the one that protected kids from deportation, a pay and hiring freeze for all Federal employees, sending NAFTA written notice of our intention to renegotiate or bow out.

I think this campaign hasn't been typical or predictable and as such I'm expecting the same out of his Presidency. I think he is naive enough as to the ways of government that he hits the ground running until he is knocked back a bit by the system.

DrillSergeantCat · November 2016

kimmiinthemitten said:
McConnell is only pissed because of those items is term limits for congress. Fastest way to get them to act is to threaten their job security.

But there are a lot of items on there that can be quickly done. Like overturning Obama's executive orders including the one that protected kids from deportation, a pay and hiring freeze for all Federal employees, sending NAFTA written notice of our intention to renegotiate or bow out.

I think this campaign hasn't been typical or predictable and as such I'm expecting the same out of his Presidency. I think he is naive enough as to the ways of government that he hits the ground running until he is knocked back a bit by the system.

I think every single president goes in with the naivete to think they're going to affect immediate change because they don't really know what the position entails. Then they get in and it's roadblock after roadblock.

I really hope that the majority of what Trump has been saying was merely to get himself elected and that he doesn't intend any of it. Trump is a former Democrat and his actual values fall more in line with traditional moderate or liberal values than they do traditional conservatism.

I don't want to see us fall backwards either. We made great strides in recent years with human rights. I just sincerely hope Trump was being extreme because that's what the republican party wanted.

TrixieJess · November 2016

kimmiinthemitten said:

mrsconn23 said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

I saw something yesterday that said, "Hoping Trump fails is like hoping the pilot crashes the plane you're on. We're all on the same plane." It makes sense. What I took from @CMGragain was that people shouldn't hope Trump fails, because he'll take the plane down with him. I will say, I don't understand what outcome the protesters are looking for. Just their voice to be heard again that they don't like Trump?

This depends on your definition of the word fail I don't want to see him fail the nation. However, I will be doing everything I can as a citizen to see to it that many of his agenda points in his 'First 100 day' plan fail.

Namely dismantling the ACA. I won't obstruct real reform over our healthcare system, but let's not pretend we can replace what took years to write in 100 days without extreme consequences.

First 100 days for most president-elects are so pie-in-the-sky, especially when it's a change from D to R and vice versa. They have to live up to campaign promises. McConnell (whom I cannot stand, FTR) has already come out and said that there's many items on the list that are simply not going to happen.

However, that said, dismantling ACA is going to do a fuck-ton of damage unless there's some 'great' plan to replace it and I don't see that. That will be the quickest path to him not getting a second term (IF he doesn't get impeached, which I still think is a strong possibility. One of his first trials starts next month.)

McConnell is only pissed because of those items is term limits for congress. Fastest way to get them to act is to threaten their job security.

But there are a lot of items on there that can be quickly done. Like overturning Obama's executive orders including the one that protected kids from deportation, a pay and hiring freeze for all Federal employees, sending NAFTA written notice of our intention to renegotiate or bow out.

I think this campaign hasn't been typical or predictable and as such I'm expecting the same out of his Presidency. I think he is naive enough as to the ways of government that he hits the ground running until he is knocked back a bit by the system.

This will be interesting. If I remember correctly, previous to the Free-Trade agreement, our dollar was actually either on par or above the American dollar and it was during the recession in the 80s that no one ever really came back from. Won't the price of everything go up? I mean, up here we are negotiating for trade with the EU so we may be okay, but your prices may skyrocket on everything.

glasgowtolondon · November 2016

I'd imagine the end goal is for their country not to turn a corner that they don't agree with? I doubt anyone protesting thought that taking to the streets would mean that by 9pm that night Trump would no longer have won the election. If everyone who disagreed with a decision (elections, legislation, mac discontinuing a lipstick shade - whatever) just stayed home and kept their mouth shut think of all the things that would never have happened.

charlotte989875 · November 2016

Movements don't always have concrete goals from the beginning. They're often spontaneous outbursts of frustration. When they grow, the develop missions, goals, action plans. Organization and mobilization doesn't happen over night. But they don't happen at all when people wonder "what's the point"?

glasgowtolondon · November 2016

charlotte989875 said:

Movements don't always have concrete goals from the beginning. They're often spontaneous outbursts of frustration. When they grow, the develop missions, goals, action plans. Organization and mobilization doesn't happen over night. But they don't happen at all when people wonder "what's the point"?

And lets face it, this attitude from the public is a politicians wet dream. As Mammy GtL likes to remind me, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

kimmiinthemitten · November 2016

TrixieJess said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

mrsconn23 said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

I saw something yesterday that said, "Hoping Trump fails is like hoping the pilot crashes the plane you're on. We're all on the same plane." It makes sense. What I took from @CMGragain was that people shouldn't hope Trump fails, because he'll take the plane down with him. I will say, I don't understand what outcome the protesters are looking for. Just their voice to be heard again that they don't like Trump?

This depends on your definition of the word fail I don't want to see him fail the nation. However, I will be doing everything I can as a citizen to see to it that many of his agenda points in his 'First 100 day' plan fail.

Namely dismantling the ACA. I won't obstruct real reform over our healthcare system, but let's not pretend we can replace what took years to write in 100 days without extreme consequences.

First 100 days for most president-elects are so pie-in-the-sky, especially when it's a change from D to R and vice versa. They have to live up to campaign promises. McConnell (whom I cannot stand, FTR) has already come out and said that there's many items on the list that are simply not going to happen.

However, that said, dismantling ACA is going to do a fuck-ton of damage unless there's some 'great' plan to replace it and I don't see that. That will be the quickest path to him not getting a second term (IF he doesn't get impeached, which I still think is a strong possibility. One of his first trials starts next month.)

McConnell is only pissed because of those items is term limits for congress. Fastest way to get them to act is to threaten their job security.

But there are a lot of items on there that can be quickly done. Like overturning Obama's executive orders including the one that protected kids from deportation, a pay and hiring freeze for all Federal employees, sending NAFTA written notice of our intention to renegotiate or bow out.

I think this campaign hasn't been typical or predictable and as such I'm expecting the same out of his Presidency. I think he is naive enough as to the ways of government that he hits the ground running until he is knocked back a bit by the system.

This will be interesting. If I remember correctly, previous to the Free-Trade agreement, our dollar was actually either on par or above the American dollar and it was during the recession in the 80s that no one ever really came back from. Won't the price of everything go up? I mean, up here we are negotiating for trade with the EU so we may be okay, but your prices may skyrocket on everything.

And if renegotiating NAFTA doesn't raise prices the 65% tariff on your jeans and 35% tariff on your tequila will.

I get the anti-NAFTA sentiment. I live in Detroit. 95% of my customers are automakers. But I also realize that there are zero net job losses as a result across the country (Michigan may be a different story - I see arguments for both sides).

I also ship american made products to Mexico a few times a year that are used in production for products that are shipped back to the Unites States to be sold. Most of the plants down there are filled with equipment from the United States, sold by companies in the United States. It's fools gold to chase after that, in my opinion. I'm all for cutting tax breaks for companies who outsource overseas. I'm not sure I support tariffs.

A friend of mine is all enraged about the Ford plant in Mexico expecting to hire 3,000 people. Please tell me, where in America is there a. space for a plant that size and b. 3,000 skilled and non skilled available workers?

DrillSergeantCat · November 2016

charlotte989875 said:

Movements don't always have concrete goals from the beginning. They're often spontaneous outbursts of frustration. When they grow, the develop missions, goals, action plans. Organization and mobilization doesn't happen over night. But they don't happen at all when people wonder "what's the point"?

That's a really good point. One I hadn't considered because I only ever hear about the protests after they've begun.

lyndausvi · November 2016

kimmiinthemitten said:

TrixieJess said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

mrsconn23 said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

I saw something yesterday that said, "Hoping Trump fails is like hoping the pilot crashes the plane you're on. We're all on the same plane." It makes sense. What I took from @CMGragain was that people shouldn't hope Trump fails, because he'll take the plane down with him. I will say, I don't understand what outcome the protesters are looking for. Just their voice to be heard again that they don't like Trump?

This depends on your definition of the word fail I don't want to see him fail the nation. However, I will be doing everything I can as a citizen to see to it that many of his agenda points in his 'First 100 day' plan fail.

Namely dismantling the ACA. I won't obstruct real reform over our healthcare system, but let's not pretend we can replace what took years to write in 100 days without extreme consequences.

First 100 days for most president-elects are so pie-in-the-sky, especially when it's a change from D to R and vice versa. They have to live up to campaign promises. McConnell (whom I cannot stand, FTR) has already come out and said that there's many items on the list that are simply not going to happen.

However, that said, dismantling ACA is going to do a fuck-ton of damage unless there's some 'great' plan to replace it and I don't see that. That will be the quickest path to him not getting a second term (IF he doesn't get impeached, which I still think is a strong possibility. One of his first trials starts next month.)

McConnell is only pissed because of those items is term limits for congress. Fastest way to get them to act is to threaten their job security.

But there are a lot of items on there that can be quickly done. Like overturning Obama's executive orders including the one that protected kids from deportation, a pay and hiring freeze for all Federal employees, sending NAFTA written notice of our intention to renegotiate or bow out.

I think this campaign hasn't been typical or predictable and as such I'm expecting the same out of his Presidency. I think he is naive enough as to the ways of government that he hits the ground running until he is knocked back a bit by the system.

This will be interesting. If I remember correctly, previous to the Free-Trade agreement, our dollar was actually either on par or above the American dollar and it was during the recession in the 80s that no one ever really came back from. Won't the price of everything go up? I mean, up here we are negotiating for trade with the EU so we may be okay, but your prices may skyrocket on everything.

And if renegotiating NAFTA doesn't raise prices the 65% tariff on your jeans and 35% tariff on your tequila will.

I get the anti-NAFTA sentiment. I live in Detroit. 95% of my customers are automakers. But I also realize that there are zero net job losses as a result across the country (Michigan may be a different story - I see arguments for both sides).

I also ship american made products to Mexico a few times a year that are used in production for products that are shipped back to the Unites States to be sold. Most of the plants down there are filled with equipment from the United States, sold by companies in the United States. It's fools gold to chase after that, in my opinion. I'm all for cutting tax breaks for companies who outsource overseas. I'm not sure I support tariffs.

A friend of mine is all enraged about the Ford plant in Mexico expecting to hire 3,000 people. Please tell me, where in America is there a. space for a plant that size and b. 3,000 skilled and non skilled available workers?

There are plenty of places in middle American for that size plant. Labor? If the pay was good enough it would be a "if you build it they will come" scenario.

I think it's to say that labor costs and taxes are the real reason it's down there. Not space.

DrillSergeantCat · November 2016

lyndausvi said:
There are plenty of places in middle American for that size plant. Labor? If the pay was good enough it would be a "if you build it they will come" scenario.

I think it's to say that labor costs and taxes are the real reason it's down there. Not space.

Oklahoma has plenty of space AND a workforce willing to work for $10/hr.

TrixieJess · November 2016

DrillSergeantCat said:

lyndausvi said:
There are plenty of places in middle American for that size plant. Labor? If the pay was good enough it would be a "if you build it they will come" scenario.

I think it's to say that labor costs and taxes are the real reason it's down there. Not space.

Oklahoma has plenty of space AND a workforce willing to work for $10/hr.

That's not even minimum wage up here.

DrillSergeantCat · November 2016

TrixieJess said:
That's not even minimum wage up here.

I know. We have a pretty low cost of living here, though. I can buy a 2400 square foot house for $180,000 in a nice neighborhood in a good school system. I'm not saying you can do that on $10/hr, but there are plenty of people here who will work for that.

lyndausvi · November 2016

DrillSergeantCat said:

lyndausvi said:
There are plenty of places in middle American for that size plant. Labor? If the pay was good enough it would be a "if you build it they will come" scenario.

I think it's to say that labor costs and taxes are the real reason it's down there. Not space.

Oklahoma has plenty of space AND a workforce willing to work for $10/hr.

I'm curious of what they will pay in Mexico. I'm willing to bet it will be less than $10/hr.

That said, there is no way the UAW would allow a $10 per hour rates at one of their plants. So while their might be a force willing to work for that little, it's never going to happen, at least not within the auto industry.

DrillSergeantCat · November 2016

lyndausvi said:
I'm curious of what they will pay in Mexico. I'm willing to bet it will be less than $10/hr.

That said, there is no way the UAW would allow a $10 per hour rates at one of their plants. So while their might be a force willing to work for that little, it's never going to happen, at least not within the auto industry.

I'm 100% sure you're correct on both accounts. When the GM plant shuttered here, they were starting people around $20/hr I think.

short+sassy · November 2016

TrixieJess said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

lyndausvi said:
There are plenty of places in middle American for that size plant. Labor? If the pay was good enough it would be a "if you build it they will come" scenario.

I think it's to say that labor costs and taxes are the real reason it's down there. Not space.

Oklahoma has plenty of space AND a workforce willing to work for $10/hr.

That's not even minimum wage up here.

Then you're really going to be shocked. States can set their own minimum wages, as long as it is at least as high as the federal minimum wage.

The federal minimum wage is actually only $7.25/hour. Unless you earn tips, like servers/bartenders. Then your employer can pay you as low as $2.13/hour. Though tips plus hourly rate needs to equal at least $7.25/hour.

Yep. The vast majority of servers working in the world famous, 4-star restaurants of my lovely little NOLA...make 2 bucks an hour from the restaurant.

Probably not a fair example, because they do make a s**t ton from tips. But the same goes for people in the small restaurants, in the suburb restaurants, in the diners. Most restaurants in Louis. don't pay servers more than the $2.13/hour that they have to.

TrixieJess · November 2016

short+sassy said:

TrixieJess said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

lyndausvi said:
There are plenty of places in middle American for that size plant. Labor? If the pay was good enough it would be a "if you build it they will come" scenario.

I think it's to say that labor costs and taxes are the real reason it's down there. Not space.

Oklahoma has plenty of space AND a workforce willing to work for $10/hr.

That's not even minimum wage up here.

Then you're really going to be shocked. States can set their own minimum wages, as long as it is at least as high as the federal minimum wage.
The federal minimum wage is actually only $7.25/hour. Unless you earn tips, like servers/bartenders. Then your employer can pay you as low as $2.13/hour. Though tips plus hourly rate needs to equal at least $7.25/hour.
Yep. The vast majority of servers working in the world famous, 4-star restaurants of my lovely little NOLA...make 2 bucks an hour from the restaurant.
Probably not a fair example, because they do make a s**t ton from tips. But the same goes for people in the small restaurants, in the suburb restaurants, in the diners. Most restaurants in Louis. don't pay servers more than the $2.13/hour that they have to.

Our provinces set their own minimum wages too. It's just that none of them are under $10.50 and those that are, are set to go up on a yearly basis to adjust with the Consumer Index. Our servers get paid less than "normal" minimum wage too because they get tips. In Ontario, Quebec and BC, servers earn between $9.20 and $9.90 per hour because they are supplemented with tips.

However, we are also taxed considerably higher than you are. Earnings are taxed after $20K and it can be 15% of your wage between source deductions and actual taxes.

cowgirl8238 · November 2016

TrixieJess said:

Our provinces set their own minimum wages too. It's just that none of them are under $10.50 and those that are, are set to go up on a yearly basis to adjust with the Consumer Index. Our servers get paid less than "normal" minimum wage too because they get tips. In Ontario, Quebec and BC, servers earn between $9.20 and $9.90 per hour because they are supplemented with tips.

However, we are also taxed considerably higher than you are. Earnings are taxed after $20K and it can be 15% of your wage between source deductions and actual taxes.

Here is the 2015 Federal Tax Rates...keep in mind you still have to pay your State and Local Taxes too...

https://www.irs.com/articles/2015-federal-tax-rates-personal-exemptions-and-standard-deductions

I am from PA, my husband and I have a combined income of around $80K, we have to pay a 25% Federal income tax, 3% to our state (Flat tax here!), and 1% to the local government. Oh and my DH is hit with a commuter tax too (I believe it is $3 a week so not bad, but seriously?!).

We just purchased a home in the suburbs for just under $225K, it is 2,200 sq feet on 1/4 acre but in a decent school district. Our Property Taxes are over $6K. Plus our sales tax is 6%. Oh and our state minimum wage is $7.25 hourly or $2.83.

kimmiinthemitten · November 2016

lyndausvi said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

lyndausvi said:
There are plenty of places in middle American for that size plant. Labor? If the pay was good enough it would be a "if you build it they will come" scenario.

I think it's to say that labor costs and taxes are the real reason it's down there. Not space.

Oklahoma has plenty of space AND a workforce willing to work for $10/hr.

I'm curious of what they will pay in Mexico. I'm willing to bet it will be less than $10/hr.

That said, there is no way the UAW would allow a $10 per hour rates at one of their plants. So while their might be a force willing to work for that little, it's never going to happen, at least not within the auto industry.

Sorry, if I didn't articulate that correctly. I was trying to say is that where there is space, there is a lack of people and where there are people there tends to be a lack of space. There is not a place left in Michigan that could meet both needs. And I feel like the same is likely true in KC, Spartanburg and Tuscaloosa.

I'm sure it's not impossible here, but no, the UAW won't approve $10/hour (nor should they IMO) and when you're building the Focus, naturally you're going where labor is the cheapest. Sadly, the going rate in Queretaro is about $3.00/hour. And without those jobs, there are almost none.

I guess my overall point was to focus on the big picture. The plants in Mexico are filled with things made and sold here first. So the 3,000 jobs they employ there could easily be supporting another 3,000 jobs here.

I also think it's ironic that no one cries American jobs when Chrysler builds in Ontario. I'm shipping up there this week.

TrixieJess · November 2016

cowgirl8238 said:

TrixieJess said:

Our provinces set their own minimum wages too. It's just that none of them are under $10.50 and those that are, are set to go up on a yearly basis to adjust with the Consumer Index. Our servers get paid less than "normal" minimum wage too because they get tips. In Ontario, Quebec and BC, servers earn between $9.20 and $9.90 per hour because they are supplemented with tips.

However, we are also taxed considerably higher than you are. Earnings are taxed after $20K and it can be 15% of your wage between source deductions and actual taxes.

Here is the 2015 Federal Tax Rates...keep in mind you still have to pay your State and Local Taxes too...
https://www.irs.com/articles/2015-federal-tax-rates-personal-exemptions-and-standard-deductions
I am from PA, my husband and I have a combined income of around $80K, we have to pay a 25% Federal income tax, 3% to our state (Flat tax here!), and 1% to the local government. Oh and my DH is hit with a commuter tax too (I believe it is $3 a week so not bad, but seriously?!).
We just purchased a home in the suburbs for just under $225K, it is 2,200 sq feet on 1/4 acre but in a decent school district. Our Property Taxes are over $6K. Plus our sales tax is 6%. Oh and our state minimum wage is $7.25 hourly or $2.83.

Our combined reported income is just under $60K. I pay 20% tax, FH pays 15% because his income is lower. Our property taxes this year are $4200. Our federal/provincial sales tax is 13%.

We do get a child tax credit every month as well as HST credit, but it's not much.

short+sassy · November 2016

kimmiinthemitten said:

lyndausvi said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

lyndausvi said:
There are plenty of places in middle American for that size plant. Labor? If the pay was good enough it would be a "if you build it they will come" scenario.

I think it's to say that labor costs and taxes are the real reason it's down there. Not space.

Oklahoma has plenty of space AND a workforce willing to work for $10/hr.

I'm curious of what they will pay in Mexico. I'm willing to bet it will be less than $10/hr.

That said, there is no way the UAW would allow a $10 per hour rates at one of their plants. So while their might be a force willing to work for that little, it's never going to happen, at least not within the auto industry.

Sorry, if I didn't articulate that correctly. I was trying to say is that where there is space, there is a lack of people and where there are people there tends to be a lack of space. There is not a place left in Michigan that could meet both needs. And I feel like the same is likely true in KC, Spartanburg and Tuscaloosa.

I'm sure it's not impossible here, but no, the UAW won't approve $10/hour (nor should they IMO) and when you're building the Focus, naturally you're going where labor is the cheapest. Sadly, the going rate in Queretaro is about $3.00/hour. And without those jobs, there are almost none.

I guess my overall point was to focus on the big picture. The plants in Mexico are filled with things made and sold here first. So the 3,000 jobs they employ there could easily be supporting another 3,000 jobs here.

I also think it's ironic that no one cries American jobs when Chrysler builds in Ontario. I'm shipping up there this week.

I was a business major in college. I remember a lesson where they took the retail MSRP for an "American made" car and broke down by dollar amount all the other countries that were involved in making that car. The factory might have been in the U.S., but many of the parts came from a variety of countries all over the world. Even right down to the advertising campaign for the car being outsourced to a firm in Ireland.

My other fave was being given a list of ten large and very well known companies. And then the students wrote in which countries they actually hail from. I think I got 4/10 correct, lol.

Happy US election day!!

Re: Happy US election day!!

Choose Another Board

Search Boards