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SO question

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Re: SO question

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    kimmiinthemittenkimmiinthemitten member
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    lyndausvi said:
    If your cousin dating a drug dealer there is a possibility she is taking them herself.    Excluding the BF doesn't automatically immune your brother from getting drugs at your wedding.  The step-cousin or others might have them and/or he has other ways to get them.  I get not wanting to have him there, but do not focus solely on him.  If your brother wants them, he will find a way.  A sponsor would be a great idea even without the BF coming.  There are many "fine, upstanding,well educated" citizens who have access to drugs that the average person might not realize because they are focused on people who "look" like drug dealers.

    I worked a wedding a few months ago.  This wedding was over a million dollars.  Everyone was well educated with good high paying jobs.  

    OMG, there was so many drugs going around.   They were not selling them, they were giving them away to each other.   I was bartending and one guy asked me if I knew were to get some and I responded "what?  Your friends aren't sharing?  They seem to be sharing with everyone else."    Now, I'm not exactly sure what they were taking.    Pot is legal here and I know I smelled that, but I mostly saw pills being passed around.   
    Right?!  I've seen way more drugs when working high ticket events than I have at regular house parties.  The idea that Lifetime Movie-like dealers and addicts are the only ones running in the drug trade always makes me laugh.
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    SwissMsSwissMs member
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    Getting arrested for dealing drugs (or any other serious crime that could potentially impact other guests) trumps etiquette.

     I have been getting into fights with my FI trying to tell him that SOs MUST be invited (even if it IS just your dumb 20 year old cousin's girlfriend of 1 month).  Inviting SOs is something I feel very strongly about and hate when SOs are referred to as "plus ones".

    But again, a known drug dealer?  Perfectly acceptable to tell your step-cousin that, unfortunately, you cannot accommodate the extra guest, should she ask/RSVP including him.  Probably best not to get into the why with her in this case, though.
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    ahoyweddingahoywedding member
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    Yes, find a Nar-Anon or Al-Anon meeting! It will be SO helpful for you in dealing with your brother, plus give you a ton of support. Best of luck to you and your brother.

    (And another vote for team don't invite him, if only because it's causing you so much agony)
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    MandyMostMandyMost member
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    The brother is an addict. If he wants to find drugs he'll find them. Regardless of who's invited to the wedding.

    And this guest we're talking about is someone you think has an arrest record, and the rumor mill says sells drugs. Are you going to look into everyone's background before giving them an invite? How long ago is an arrest acceptable? Check all of their home towns to see if there's rumors about them? It seems overboard to me to not invite someone to your wedding based on what you think you might know about someone's history.  
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    driddrid member
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    edited January 2017
    MandyMost said:
    The brother is an addict. If he wants to find drugs he'll find them. Regardless of who's invited to the wedding.

    And this guest we're talking about is someone you think has an arrest record, and the rumor mill says sells drugs. Are you going to look into everyone's background before giving them an invite? How long ago is an arrest acceptable? Check all of their home towns to see if there's rumors about them? It seems overboard to me to not invite someone to your wedding based on what you think you might know about someone's history.  
    Are you kidding me? This is excessively snarky.

    Edit: clarity
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    Jen4948Jen4948 member
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    edited January 2017
    MandyMost said:
    The brother is an addict. If he wants to find drugs he'll find them. Regardless of who's invited to the wedding.

    And this guest we're talking about is someone you think has an arrest record, and the rumor mill says sells drugs. Are you going to look into everyone's background before giving them an invite? How long ago is an arrest acceptable? Check all of their home towns to see if there's rumors about them? It seems overboard to me to not invite someone to your wedding based on what you think you might know about someone's history.  
    Sorry, but I think that regardless of how the brother finds or deals drugs, he made the choice to originally do that and/or not to get help for it and now there are consequences. It's not "overboard" to take whatever steps are necessary to protect the guests, the venue, its staff, and other vendors from behavior that could get them into trouble -- and I think many venues do have contract provisions against controlled substance possession or use on the property.
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    Keisha84Keisha84 member
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    MandyMost said:
    The brother is an addict. If he wants to find drugs he'll find them. Regardless of who's invited to the wedding.

    And this guest we're talking about is someone you think has an arrest record, and the rumor mill says sells drugs. Are you going to look into everyone's background before giving them an invite? How long ago is an arrest acceptable? Check all of their home towns to see if there's rumors about them? It seems overboard to me to not invite someone to your wedding based on what you think you might know about someone's history.  
    I don't think the OP is being unreasonable. And I don't think she's going 'overboard' not to invite this person. She has legitimate concerns about this persons character and morals. I think it's unfair to say this to her just because you can't understand where she is coming from. 
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    driddrid member
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    Holy smokes, I've been really trying to not go into too many details about the step-cousins boyfriend aka the known drug dealer- burn we're from a small town where everybody knows what everybody's doing. I'm roughly the same age as said person, we've been at many the same party and I, as well as many friends have been offered drugs on numerous occasions by this person. Again- I'm not friends, not even acquaintances with this person, but small town functions stand to be what they are.

     Now, I'm a few years out of said town, much older than the usual 'party crowd' that my brothers and sisters are attending, yet same drug dealing person is attending the same parties soliciting drugs to much younger people. Like I said, he's a known drug dealer. Even my parents are aware. 

    snark and judge me all you want for thoughts of the 'rumor mill' and for judging this person because of what you think I've heard but don't actually know...

    but really,
    youre going to judge, snark and act high and mighty towards me trying to avoid association with a drug dealer...with me then deciding that should his girlfriend want him there I will welcome him no questions asked


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    Jen4948Jen4948 member
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    edited January 2017
    kimmiinthemitten said:
    Keisha84 said:
    MandyMost said:
    The brother is an addict. If he wants to find drugs he'll find them. Regardless of who's invited to the wedding.

    And this guest we're talking about is someone you think has an arrest record, and the rumor mill says sells drugs. Are you going to look into everyone's background before giving them an invite? How long ago is an arrest acceptable? Check all of their home towns to see if there's rumors about them? It seems overboard to me to not invite someone to your wedding based on what you think you might know about someone's history.  
    I don't think the OP is being unreasonable. And I don't think she's going 'overboard' not to invite this person. She has legitimate concerns about this persons character and morals. I think it's unfair to say this to her just because you can't understand where she is coming from. 
    But where do we draw the line on morals and character that overrides etiquette?  Do we exclude the guy that lied to get a medical marijuana card?  The drunk uncle who doesn't always give up his keys?  Your cousins husband who is a public defender and is legally required to do heir best in representing reprehensible people.   Perhaps the drug dealer is a recovering addict in a program with a previous criminal history. Should we set a NA chip minimum before he's allowed to join social functions?  How do you know other people's SO's aren't secretly deplorable, abusive, criminal etc?  That *is* the exact point.

    I think the conversation is a valid one but the question remains:  is he being excluded becaue of rumors of his lawlessness or becaue he may be a negative influence on the brother?    Unless we're talking about El Chapo here, the answer doesn't really matter as there is no real reason to believe he poses a threat. 
    Just how do you know "there's no real reason to believe he poses a threat?"

    If he uses the occasion to do or sell drugs, the venue could get in trouble with the law and whoever's name is on the contract could be in trouble as well. And that's aside from any physical safety threats he might pose to the guests, staffers or vendors present.

    Unfortunately, addicted or not, choosing to engage in this kind of behavior has consequences, one of which is that he can be excluded from family invitations because he chooses to behave in ways not condoned by either polite society or the law. Even if he's an addict, he was the one who chose to do drugs and deal drugs in the first place.
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    kimmiinthemittenkimmiinthemitten member
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    drid said:
    Holy smokes, I've been really trying to not go into too many details about the step-cousins boyfriend aka the known drug dealer- burn we're from a small town where everybody knows what everybody's doing. I'm roughly the same age as said person, we've been at many the same party and I, as well as many friends have been offered drugs on numerous occasions by this person. Again- I'm not friends, not even acquaintances with this person, but small town functions stand to be what they are.

     Now, I'm a few years out of said town, much older than the usual 'party crowd' that my brothers and sisters are attending, yet same drug dealing person is attending the same parties soliciting drugs to much younger people. Like I said, he's a known drug dealer. Even my parents are aware. 

    snark and judge me all you want for thoughts of the 'rumor mill' and for judging this person because of what you think I've heard but don't actually know...

    but really,
    youre going to judge, snark and act high and mighty towards me trying to avoid association with a drug dealer...with me then deciding that should his girlfriend want him there I will welcome him no questions asked


    I'm not judging you at all. You're inferring motive when it is not there. I even said I think it's a valid conversation to have. 

    My last response was more to the general debate about where do we draw the line between excluding one person we know to engage in lawless behavior and others. I think too many conversations about drugs and dealers are rooted in some Hollywood movie about what those people look like and who they are. Drug use (and its "dealers") are found in every social economic class in our culture so really one persons junkie in a bando is another persons medical Doctor. 

    My advice to you this entire time has been to focus on what your motivations are regarding this particular invite and to seek help in helping *you* come to terms with your brothers struggle. I'm not defending the random bf, I'm trying to help you think twice about your inherent desire to protect your brother and whether or not it's actually helping him. It's hard. It sucks. It hurts more than it feels good. And that's why you need to focus on you. 
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    MairePoppyMairePoppy mod
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    MandyMost said:
    Being a drug dealer does not inherently make someone a bad person or dangerous. That's one of the points that seems to be getting lost here. If the OP has other reasons to believe this person is a threat, fine, but dealing drugs does not inherently equal dangerous or a threat. Or total lack of judgement either--yes, he's chosen to sell drugs, but that doesn't mean he's going to do it everywhere he goes! 

    I'm positive I had multiple former drug dealers at my wedding. I don't know if any of them still sell. I know most of them still at least do some drugs, though. My family background isn't exactly all roses and butterflies. 

    No one did any drugs or sold any drugs at my wedding, at least that myself or any of my other guests or venue was aware of.

    I just can't imagine being like "Hey, you're not invited, because I know you have a history of selling drugs and you've been in jail before. I only want people with squeaky-clean backgrounds at my 5-hour dinner event". 
    She didn't say she only wants guests with squeaky-clean backgrounds. She's inviting her brother, after all. 
                       
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    Jen4948Jen4948 member
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    MandyMost said:
    Being a drug dealer does not inherently make someone a bad person or dangerous. That's one of the points that seems to be getting lost here. If the OP has other reasons to believe this person is a threat, fine, but dealing drugs does not inherently equal dangerous or a threat. Or total lack of judgement either--yes, he's chosen to sell drugs, but that doesn't mean he's going to do it everywhere he goes! 

    I'm positive I had multiple former drug dealers at my wedding. I don't know if any of them still sell. I know most of them still at least do some drugs, though. My family background isn't exactly all roses and butterflies. 

    No one did any drugs or sold any drugs at my wedding, at least that myself or any of my other guests or venue was aware of.

    I just can't imagine being like "Hey, you're not invited, because I know you have a history of selling drugs and you've been in jail before. I only want people with squeaky-clean backgrounds at my 5-hour dinner event". 
    I don't agree with this. Since when are people who commit felonies entitled to special consideration and invitations to weddings?

    In fact, I think they constitute a valid exception to the SO rule as well.

    For someone who's accusing other posters of being judgmental, you're doing an excellent job of passing judgment yourself.
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    flantasticflantastic member
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    Jen4948 said:
    MandyMost said:
    Being a drug dealer does not inherently make someone a bad person or dangerous. That's one of the points that seems to be getting lost here. If the OP has other reasons to believe this person is a threat, fine, but dealing drugs does not inherently equal dangerous or a threat. Or total lack of judgement either--yes, he's chosen to sell drugs, but that doesn't mean he's going to do it everywhere he goes! 

    I'm positive I had multiple former drug dealers at my wedding. I don't know if any of them still sell. I know most of them still at least do some drugs, though. My family background isn't exactly all roses and butterflies. 

    No one did any drugs or sold any drugs at my wedding, at least that myself or any of my other guests or venue was aware of.

    I just can't imagine being like "Hey, you're not invited, because I know you have a history of selling drugs and you've been in jail before. I only want people with squeaky-clean backgrounds at my 5-hour dinner event". 
    I don't agree with this. Since when are people who commit felonies entitled to special consideration and invitations to weddings?

    In fact, I think they constitute a valid exception to the SO rule as well.

    For someone who's accusing other posters of being judgmental, you're doing an excellent job of passing judgment yourself.
    What? How? The only possibly judgmental thing I can see is the extrapolation to "squeaky-clean backgrounds," which is not a tack the OP is taking.

    No one said people who commit felonies are entitled to invitations to weddings. Felonies, or any criminal record, don't have a damn thing to do with invitations to weddings. No one at all is entitled to invitations to weddings - unless they're the SO of an invited guest when invites go out. If you don't want the SO, you can't invite the friend/relation.

    The implication of a physical threat specifically to another guest of the wedding (which is what OP is trying to establish about her brother, and getting good advice) is the SO rule exception. Merely having a felonious record is nothing.
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    flantasticflantastic member
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    scribe95 said:
    Being a drug dealer certainly doesn't make you a good person...


    People's moral character has nothing to do with the etiquette of inviting SOs.

    (And @charlotte989875 and @MandyMost are still right that it doesn't make you a terrible, irredeemable person.)
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    redoryxredoryx member
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    scribe95 said:
    Being a drug dealer certainly doesn't make you a good person...
    Says who?

    I used to work in a prison, one with a focus on substance abuse. 75% of the inmates who worked for me were in on drug related charges (the other 25% were in for drunk driving). They weren't "bad guys" some, I'd even go so far as to say, is that some really were good guys, they just made a bad decision. 

    I don't know what drugs the OP is talking about, but pot is legal in several states in the United States. Outside of those states, I know many high-functioning users. I know many high-functioning dealers. These are people with 9-5 jobs, they are clean cut and respectable members of society. Hell, some are leaders in their church. They just have a side gig that sometimes involves trading pot for cash with some of their friends. 
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    lyndausvilyndausvi mod
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    My DH is a former drug dealer.  This was long before I came around.   He doesn't deal or even take drugs anymore.  I think he is a good person.   People around him think he is a good hearted person.    






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
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    justsiejustsie member
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    lyndausvi said:
    My DH is a former drug dealer.  This was long before I came around.   He doesn't deal or even take drugs anymore.  I think he is a good person.   People around him think he is a good hearted person.    
    Same here. H was dealing (and doing) cocaine and pot when he was 13 years old. He grew up quick, and grew out of it quick and all of that was long before he met me. People around him think of him as a great person.
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    driddrid member
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    I don't think dealing drugs makes somebody a bad person. I don't agree with their choice to do that, and I may not want to be associated with said person at the time, but if somebody has reformed and grown up - then they deserve to be considered and respected as the good person they are. 
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    MairePoppyMairePoppy mod
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    edited January 2017
    kimmiinthemitten said:
    MairePoppy said:
    She didn't say she only wants guests with squeaky-clean backgrounds. She's inviting her brother, after all. 
    Sorry, this really rubs me the wrong way.  Like we should all stop and "aww" that she isn't treating her brother poorly for having a curable disease (which is what addiction is). 

    @scribe95
    Drugs are not a magical line dividing good and evil.
    All drug dealers aren't bad people.
    All sober people aren't inherently good.  

    I'm not awing that she's inviting her brother. I'm sorry that came off the way it did. I only meant that she didn't say anything about only inviting people with squeaky clean records.  I was rude to single out her brother. My sincere apologies.

                       
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    CMGragainCMGragain member
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    edited January 2017
    I invited a drug dealer to my wedding.  He was my sister's husband at the time.  He showed up high, but made no problems.  I think you are worrying too much.
    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
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    MandyMostMandyMost member
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    Jen4948 said:
    MandyMost said:
    Being a drug dealer does not inherently make someone a bad person or dangerous. That's one of the points that seems to be getting lost here. If the OP has other reasons to believe this person is a threat, fine, but dealing drugs does not inherently equal dangerous or a threat. Or total lack of judgement either--yes, he's chosen to sell drugs, but that doesn't mean he's going to do it everywhere he goes! 

    I'm positive I had multiple former drug dealers at my wedding. I don't know if any of them still sell. I know most of them still at least do some drugs, though. My family background isn't exactly all roses and butterflies. 

    No one did any drugs or sold any drugs at my wedding, at least that myself or any of my other guests or venue was aware of.

    I just can't imagine being like "Hey, you're not invited, because I know you have a history of selling drugs and you've been in jail before. I only want people with squeaky-clean backgrounds at my 5-hour dinner event". 
    I don't agree with this. Since when are people who commit felonies entitled to special consideration and invitations to weddings?

    In fact, I think they constitute a valid exception to the SO rule as well.

    For someone who's accusing other posters of being judgmental, you're doing an excellent job of passing judgment yourself.
    They're not, that's the point! A person's history shouldn't be related to their invitation. I don't think you should invite a person who had a history of doing good deeds unless you were planning to invite them anyway, the same way I don't think you should refuse to invite someone who has a felony in their history. 

    The other point is that you don't know the history of everyone you're inviting. It's quite possible you have other guests with past felonies that you know nothing about!
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