Saying she's your girlfriend =/= you must answer personal questions.

kimmiinthemitten · August 2017

holyguacamole79 said:

STARMOON44 said:

holyguacamole79 said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

holyguacamole79 said:

It's no secret that different faith traditions have different perspectives regarding marriage. Clarifying those perspectives does not always constitute hate.

I disagree. If your religion dictates a certain thing you want to teach your children, that is your responsibility. It is not someone else's job to make sure their relationship status and answers fall within a certain church's teaching.

It's rude and disrespectful to expect them to do so. Your belief=your explanation.

You're putting words in my mouth. There is no expectation that someone not be in a relationship simply because another person's faith says otherwise.

Then I'm confused- I thought you were arguing that people should not answer when a child asks why one lady has a boyfriend and another a girlfriend because of different church teachings?

Thats what have an issue with. Being in a relationship, being out, being equal to straight relationships means that you don't have to censor yourself because some people hate you or disagree that you should be in a relationship. There are perfectly acceptable honest age appropriate ways for couples to answer the question you raised whether they are gay or straight.

People are usually generally aware about the faith affiliations and views on relationship of their family members. For example, I have plenty of friends who would rather explain to their young children in their own words what their faith teaches about different kinds of relationships. That does not necessarily mean that that explanation involves condemning someone to hell. If a question is simple enough, I agree that you should answer it honestly. Kids are kids, though. A question such as "why do you have a girlfriends and Aunt Jane has a boyfriend?" has a potential to have answers that a parent may prefer to discuss and include the information that their church teaches.

Which is exactly why it's the parents responsibility to teach that and not the person who receives the questions. People usually know when they're being invited somewhere where a LGBTQ+ family or friend will be and can have that conversation in advance too if it's that important to them.

Thankfully, I've been raised in a love is love is love family. My cousins' 16 year old daughter has had a girlfriend for the past 7 months. Another cousin said "I didn't know she was a lesbian." Her 17 year old brother said, "she's not, she has a girlfriend." I love this generations tendency to avoid labels.

holyguacamole79 · August 2017

I do agree that the onus is on the parent. We can go back & forth all day, and I honestly just don't have the time & energy. I have a stack of quizzes to grade.

short+sassy · August 2017

mrsconn23 said:

YES! Again, this circles back around to what I said originally...'would people in a straight relationship have to evade, hide, explain, tone down, or otherwise excuse the relationship?'

And I'm sorry, but the 'OMG, the children!' is tired. No one is performing sex acts in front of them (or if they are, again...that's a whole other problem), therefore there's no reason to hide whom a person is to someone. Kids really, really don't care or need lengthy explanations. They'll ask a quick one or two questions and they're off to do 'kid stuff'.

Explaining same sex relationships first came up for my sister and her (then) 4-year-old daughter during daycare pick-up. My niece saw her friend being picked up by her two moms and asked my sister why this friend had two mommies. Because it can sadly be such a big deal in the adult world, my sister geared up for a potentially long, kid-appropriate talk.

But no fear, lol. She started with explaining that not all families are mommies and daddies, and her friend has two mommies. That was the simple answer my niece wanted. She immediately moved on to regale my sister with all the fun things her and said friend had done that day.

kimmiinthemitten · August 2017

holyguacamole79 said:

I do agree that the onus is on the parent. We can go back & forth all day, and I honestly just don't have the time & energy. I have a stack of quizzes to grade.

I'm genuinely confused...at first you seemed to believe people should adhere/honor the parents religious belief when answering questions and now you say it's the parents job. Which is it?

ILoveBeachMusic · August 2017

kimmiinthemitten said:

holyguacamole79 said:

I do agree that the onus is on the parent. We can go back & forth all day, and I honestly just don't have the time & energy. I have a stack of quizzes to grade.

I'm genuinely confused...at first you seemed to believe people should adhere/honor the parents religious belief when answering questions and now you say it's the parents job. Which is it?

I don't think Guac was saying they had to honor the religious beliefs, but should say something to defer the child to the parents so that the parents can explain to them. At least that is how I read it.

STARMOON44 · August 2017

ILoveBeachMusic said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

holyguacamole79 said:

I do agree that the onus is on the parent. We can go back & forth all day, and I honestly just don't have the time & energy. I have a stack of quizzes to grade.

I'm genuinely confused...at first you seemed to believe people should adhere/honor the parents religious belief when answering questions and now you say it's the parents job. Which is it?

I don't think Guac was saying they had to honor the religious beliefs, but should say something to defer the child to the parents so that the parents can explain to them. At least that is how I read it.

I don't see a distinction between the two parts of that sentence.

charlotte989875 · August 2017

ILoveBeachMusic said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

holyguacamole79 said:

I do agree that the onus is on the parent. We can go back & forth all day, and I honestly just don't have the time & energy. I have a stack of quizzes to grade.

I'm genuinely confused...at first you seemed to believe people should adhere/honor the parents religious belief when answering questions and now you say it's the parents job. Which is it?

I don't think Guac was saying they had to honor the religious beliefs, but should say something to defer the child to the parents so that the parents can explain to them. At least that is how I read it.

But why? If a parent wants to explain their religious beliefs of course that is a right they have. But if a child asks a question of someone (not the parent) that person does not have to answer according to those beliefs. They just have to answer in an age appropriate manner.

Again, would we be asking this of an opposite-gender couple? I don't think we would. And that's what most of us have a problem with.

holyguacamole79 · August 2017

kimmiinthemitten said:

holyguacamole79 said:

I do agree that the onus is on the parent. We can go back & forth all day, and I honestly just don't have the time & energy. I have a stack of quizzes to grade.

I'm genuinely confused...at first you seemed to believe people should adhere/honor the parents religious belief when answering questions and now you say it's the parents job. Which is it?

Forgive me for not being clear ... when I said in my first post that I imagine my sister & BIL will talk to their son, I meant that it the parents should introduce that topic. If for some reason, the parents hadn't talked about different kind of relationships, I can imagine a child sticking their foot in the mouth with a question that is more than just a simple answer. My brain is mush right now, so forgive me for not thinking of a good example. At that point (best judgement used), I think it would be respectful to just say, "That's a good question for your mommy and daddy."

I know I'm not making sense.... I'm a bit overwhelmed with back to school crap right now.

charlotte989875 · August 2017

holyguacamole79 said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

holyguacamole79 said:

I do agree that the onus is on the parent. We can go back & forth all day, and I honestly just don't have the time & energy. I have a stack of quizzes to grade.

I'm genuinely confused...at first you seemed to believe people should adhere/honor the parents religious belief when answering questions and now you say it's the parents job. Which is it?

Forgive me for not being clear ... when I said in my first post that I imagine my sister & BIL will talk to their son, I meant that it the parents should introduce that topic. If for some reason, the parents hadn't talked about different kind of relationships, I can imagine a child sticking their foot in the mouth with a question that is more than just a simple answer. My brain is mush right now, so forgive me for not thinking of a good example. At that point (best judgement used), I think it would be respectful to just say, "That's a good question for your mommy and daddy."

I know I'm not making sense.... I'm a bit overwhelmed with back to school crap right now.

But it's not just a question for the parents is what we're staying. If a child asks "why you do have a girlfriend and aunt Jane has a boyfriend"? And the person wants to answer "because I love my girlfriend just like aunt Jane loves her boyfriend" (or something), why shouldn't they? If a child asked an aunt in an opposite-gender relationship why she has a boyfriend, why should the answer be any different than if a child asked an aunt in a same-gender relationship? What you're asking is for someone in a relationship to not be themselves, and I think that's wrong.

ETA: if the LW doesn't want to answer (or anyone in that situation) they of course shouldn't feel like they have to, but I think it's ridiculous to ask someone in a same-gender relationship not to answer question simply because of who they decide to be in a relationship with.

kimmiinthemitten · August 2017

Exactly what @charlotte said.

If a child asked you "why do you have a husband" would you tell them to ask their parents?

kimmiinthemitten · August 2017

however, I’m really afraid I’ll invoke the ire of aunts, uncles, and family friends if their young kids start demanding to know how two girls can be girlfriends. And honestly, it doesn’t feel like my responsibility to teach my cousins that gay people exist or to subject myself and my girlfriend to questions like “But do you kiss her?” that grown-ups think too but know better than to ask—especially when I’m trying to enjoy Thanksgiving. What do I do?
–Gay Cousin

I'm saddened that the LW clearly feels like perhaps she should be editing her answers innstead of being honest.

ILoveBeachMusic · August 2017

To me honoring the parents' religious beliefs would be explaining the specific beliefs to the child not just deferring to the parents to explain something.

ETA I went away for awhile before posting so others commented and I hadn't read them. I agree that they can answer in an age appropriate manner as long as they aren't belittling the parents' religious beliefs (I'm not saying any posters were suggesting to do so).

charlotte989875 · August 2017

ILoveBeachMusic said:

To me honoring the parents' religious beliefs would be explaining the specific beliefs to the child not just deferring to the parents to explain something.

Why is it someone else's responsibility to explain beliefs they don't agree with?

If, for example, the parents of the children in the LW have beliefs that are homophobic or stigmatizing, you really think it's okay to ask someone in a same-gender relationship to explain those beliefs to a child?

kimmiinthemitten · August 2017

ILoveBeachMusic said:

To me honoring the parents' religious beliefs would be explaining the specific beliefs to the child not just deferring to the parents to explain something.

ETA I went away for awhile before posting so others commented and I hadn't read them. I agree that they can answer in an age appropriate manner as long as they aren't belittling the parents' religious beliefs (I'm not saying any posters were suggesting to do so).

I very strongly disagree with this. If your religious beliefs condemn who am I, it's not my place to respect them or toe the line.

If we switched out sexual orientation in this OP for race, not a single person would recommend placating a racist. Why is it okay to have that expectation here?

ILoveBeachMusic · August 2017

charlotte989875 said:

ILoveBeachMusic said:

To me honoring the parents' religious beliefs would be explaining the specific beliefs to the child not just deferring to the parents to explain something.

Why is it someone else's responsibility to explain beliefs they don't agree with?

If, for example, the parents of the children in the LW have beliefs that are homophobic or stigmatizing, you really think it's okay to ask someone in a same-gender relationship to explain those beliefs to a child?

Oh no, I'm sorry you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was saying that honoring the parents' religious beliefs is different than deferring to the parents for an explanation because honoring would mean explaining the beliefs which of course they shouldn't have to do! I was responding to @STARMOON44 but didn't quote because when I started the post I was immediately following her. When I finished the post, others had posted. I'm sooo sorry for the confusion.

ILoveBeachMusic · August 2017

kimmiinthemitten said:

ILoveBeachMusic said:

To me honoring the parents' religious beliefs would be explaining the specific beliefs to the child not just deferring to the parents to explain something.

ETA I went away for awhile before posting so others commented and I hadn't read them. I agree that they can answer in an age appropriate manner as long as they aren't belittling the parents' religious beliefs (I'm not saying any posters were suggesting to do so).

I very strongly disagree with this. If your religious beliefs condemn who am I, it's not my place to respect them or toe the line.

If we switched out sexual orientation in this OP for race, not a single person would recommend placating a racist. Why is it okay to have that expectation here?

I didn't say you have to respect their beliefs but it is not your place to belittle the beliefs to their young children. That is why I agree to deferring to the parents in that instance. For example, I don't agree with a lot of the Catholic churches' teachings. My daughter and her husband; however, are Catholic. If I have grandchildren, I don't plan on telling them at a young age why I disagree with their church. Now as teenagers, I would certainly do so if asked but I thought we were talking about young children (again maybe I was mistaken).

justsie · August 2017

ILoveBeachMusic said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

ILoveBeachMusic said:

To me honoring the parents' religious beliefs would be explaining the specific beliefs to the child not just deferring to the parents to explain something.

ETA I went away for awhile before posting so others commented and I hadn't read them. I agree that they can answer in an age appropriate manner as long as they aren't belittling the parents' religious beliefs (I'm not saying any posters were suggesting to do so).

I very strongly disagree with this. If your religious beliefs condemn who am I, it's not my place to respect them or toe the line.

If we switched out sexual orientation in this OP for race, not a single person would recommend placating a racist. Why is it okay to have that expectation here?

I didn't say you have to respect their beliefs but it is not your place to belittle the beliefs to their young children. That is why I agree to deferring to the parents in that instance. For example, I don't agree with a lot of the Catholic churches' teachings. My daughter and her husband; however, are Catholic. If I have grandchildren, I don't plan on telling them at a young age why I disagree with their church. Now as teenagers, I would certainly do so if asked but I thought we were talking about young children (again maybe I was mistaken).

I disagree. If a child comes up and asks why mary kissed suzy it isn't "belittling" the church to tell them why. That ( which is what is discussed here) and your example of you telling someone why they disagree with their church are two different and not at all equal things.
If you wouldn't defer your heterosexual relationship to someones parents, why should it be different with a homosexual relationship.

ILoveBeachMusic · August 2017

justsie said:

ILoveBeachMusic said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

ILoveBeachMusic said:

To me honoring the parents' religious beliefs would be explaining the specific beliefs to the child not just deferring to the parents to explain something.

ETA I went away for awhile before posting so others commented and I hadn't read them. I agree that they can answer in an age appropriate manner as long as they aren't belittling the parents' religious beliefs (I'm not saying any posters were suggesting to do so).

I very strongly disagree with this. If your religious beliefs condemn who am I, it's not my place to respect them or toe the line.

If we switched out sexual orientation in this OP for race, not a single person would recommend placating a racist. Why is it okay to have that expectation here?

I didn't say you have to respect their beliefs but it is not your place to belittle the beliefs to their young children. That is why I agree to deferring to the parents in that instance. For example, I don't agree with a lot of the Catholic churches' teachings. My daughter and her husband; however, are Catholic. If I have grandchildren, I don't plan on telling them at a young age why I disagree with their church. Now as teenagers, I would certainly do so if asked but I thought we were talking about young children (again maybe I was mistaken).

I disagree. If a child comes up and asks why mary kissed suzy it isn't "belittling" the church to tell them why. That ( which is what is discussed here) and your example of you telling someone why they disagree with their church are two different and not at all equal things.
If you wouldn't defer your heterosexual relationship to someones parents, why should it be different with a homosexual relationship.

In my post I said they shouldn't belittle the church, I did not say that they couldn't explain in an age appropriate way (it is right before kimmi bolded my comments). I could definitely see some people telling a child that the child's church is wrong (and we were discussing religious beliefs about homosexuality) in a not respectful way. Again, I'm not saying PPs would do that. Yes my example was relevant because the Catholic church looks at homosexuality as a sin and homosexuals are not allowed by the church to participate in communion or other sacrements.

STARMOON44 · August 2017

ILoveBeachMusic said:

justsie said:

ILoveBeachMusic said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

ILoveBeachMusic said:

To me honoring the parents' religious beliefs would be explaining the specific beliefs to the child not just deferring to the parents to explain something.

ETA I went away for awhile before posting so others commented and I hadn't read them. I agree that they can answer in an age appropriate manner as long as they aren't belittling the parents' religious beliefs (I'm not saying any posters were suggesting to do so).

I very strongly disagree with this. If your religious beliefs condemn who am I, it's not my place to respect them or toe the line.

If we switched out sexual orientation in this OP for race, not a single person would recommend placating a racist. Why is it okay to have that expectation here?

I didn't say you have to respect their beliefs but it is not your place to belittle the beliefs to their young children. That is why I agree to deferring to the parents in that instance. For example, I don't agree with a lot of the Catholic churches' teachings. My daughter and her husband; however, are Catholic. If I have grandchildren, I don't plan on telling them at a young age why I disagree with their church. Now as teenagers, I would certainly do so if asked but I thought we were talking about young children (again maybe I was mistaken).

I disagree. If a child comes up and asks why mary kissed suzy it isn't "belittling" the church to tell them why. That ( which is what is discussed here) and your example of you telling someone why they disagree with their church are two different and not at all equal things.
If you wouldn't defer your heterosexual relationship to someones parents, why should it be different with a homosexual relationship.

In my post I said they shouldn't belittle the church, I did not say that they couldn't explain in an age appropriate way (it is right before kimmi bolded my comments). I could definitely see some people telling a child that the child's church is wrong (and we were discussing religious beliefs about homosexuality) in a not respectful way. Again, I'm not saying PPs would do that. Yes my example was relevant because the Catholic church looks at homosexuality as a sin and homosexuals are not allowed by the church to participate in communion or other sacrements.

I guess that's why I am confused. Because absolutely zero people have suggested, encouraged, or even contemplated a response belittling any church. At all.

justsie · August 2017

STARMOON44 said:

ILoveBeachMusic said:

justsie said:

ILoveBeachMusic said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

ILoveBeachMusic said:

To me honoring the parents' religious beliefs would be explaining the specific beliefs to the child not just deferring to the parents to explain something.

ETA I went away for awhile before posting so others commented and I hadn't read them. I agree that they can answer in an age appropriate manner as long as they aren't belittling the parents' religious beliefs (I'm not saying any posters were suggesting to do so).

I very strongly disagree with this. If your religious beliefs condemn who am I, it's not my place to respect them or toe the line.

If we switched out sexual orientation in this OP for race, not a single person would recommend placating a racist. Why is it okay to have that expectation here?

I didn't say you have to respect their beliefs but it is not your place to belittle the beliefs to their young children. That is why I agree to deferring to the parents in that instance. For example, I don't agree with a lot of the Catholic churches' teachings. My daughter and her husband; however, are Catholic. If I have grandchildren, I don't plan on telling them at a young age why I disagree with their church. Now as teenagers, I would certainly do so if asked but I thought we were talking about young children (again maybe I was mistaken).

I disagree. If a child comes up and asks why mary kissed suzy it isn't "belittling" the church to tell them why. That ( which is what is discussed here) and your example of you telling someone why they disagree with their church are two different and not at all equal things.
If you wouldn't defer your heterosexual relationship to someones parents, why should it be different with a homosexual relationship.

In my post I said they shouldn't belittle the church, I did not say that they couldn't explain in an age appropriate way (it is right before kimmi bolded my comments). I could definitely see some people telling a child that the child's church is wrong (and we were discussing religious beliefs about homosexuality) in a not respectful way. Again, I'm not saying PPs would do that. Yes my example was relevant because the Catholic church looks at homosexuality as a sin and homosexuals are not allowed by the church to participate in communion or other sacrements.

I guess that's why I am confused. Because absolutely zero people have suggested, encouraged, or even contemplated a response belittling any church. At all.

This. The reason I said your example is no good is because you are comparing something that no one is suggesting to the discussion that is actually happening.

holyguacamole79 · August 2017

Okay, I've been thinking about this and I honestly can't think of a valid kid question that can't be simply answered by a person in LW's situation. I seriously doubt a child is going to ask anything that sensitive that would require a drawn out, deep answer that could (rightfully) cause a stir. I think I was thinking of a response for a highly unlikely situation. I tell my students not to take a simple question over-think it, which is what I did.

Saying she's your girlfriend =/= you must answer personal questions.

Re: Saying she's your girlfriend =/= you must answer personal questions.

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