Having a wedding but not legally married

[Deleted User] · March 2018

Me and my fiancé are planning a wedding but we will not be signing legal papers to be legally married. My fiancé went through 3 divorces when we was young and does not belive it the legal aspect of marrige. I on the other hand have never had divorce in my familly. We have been engaged 5 years now (after having two babies) we comprimised on a wedding but no legal aspects. To us the vows we make to each other and the celebratuon of our love with our families is what is tge most important. We will from that day on be husban and wife just not in the eyes of the federal government. We will be signing our vows instead of having a legal certificate. We will have my fiancé father as our officiant because it will mean more to us. I just wanted to know if you think we need to tell all our guest that it is not legal? Our parents know and are happy for us. I just dont see why we need to go into details with everyone why we are not making it legal. Thoughts?

STARMOON44 · March 2018

Because otherwise you are lying to your guests. It’s deceitful and wrong. You are not getting married. Call it a commitment celebration.

ShesSoCold · March 2018

STARMOON44 said:

Because otherwise you are lying to your guests. It’s deceitful and wrong. You are not getting married. Call it a commitment celebration.

This. A "Commitment Celebration" is great wording. You can call it that without having to give further explanation and it's not leading people to believe that this ceremony will be an actual wedding.

downtondiva · March 2018

You don't have to go into detail about your fiance's marital history, etc. with your guests, but you shouldn't call this a wedding when it isn't one. Call it a commitment ceremony/celebration. From there, they will probably figure out on their own that it isn't legal.

ernursej · March 2018

knottiee2b9a96b23cc8a1f said:

Me and my fiancé are planning a wedding but we will not be signing legal papers to be legally married. My fiancé went through 3 divorces when we was young and does not belive it the legal aspect of marrige. I on the other hand have never had divorce in my familly. We have been engaged 5 years now (after having two babies) we comprimised on a wedding but no legal aspects. To us the vows we make to each other and the celebratuon of our love with our families is what is tge most important. We will from that day on be husban and wife just not in the eyes of the federal government. We will be signing our vows instead of having a legal certificate. We will have my fiancé father as our officiant because it will mean more to us. I just wanted to know if you think we need to tell all our guest that it is not legal? Our parents know and are happy for us. I just dont see why we need to go into details with everyone why we are not making it legal. Thoughts?

A commitment ceremony sounds like the appropriate way to phrase what you want to do.

CMGragain · March 2018

knottiee2b9a96b23cc8a1f said:

Me and my fiancé are planning a wedding but we will not be signing legal papers to be legally married. My fiancé went through 3 divorces when we was young and does not belive it the legal aspect of marrige. I on the other hand have never had divorce in my familly. We have been engaged 5 years now (after having two babies) we comprimised on a wedding but no legal aspects. To us the vows we make to each other and the celebratuon of our love with our families is what is tge most important. We will from that day on be husban and wife just not in the eyes of the federal government. We will be signing our vows instead of having a legal certificate. We will have my fiancé father as our officiant because it will mean more to us. I just wanted to know if you think we need to tell all our guest that it is not legal? Our parents know and are happy for us. I just dont see why we need to go into details with everyone why we are not making it legal. Thoughts?

You are not having a wedding. Please do not use this word for any part of your ceremony. You are not a bride. He is not a groom. You are partners.

You are having a commitment ceremony. There is nothing wrong with this as long as you do not confuse it with a wedding. There will probably be questions. You cannot avoid them. How you answer is totally up to you, but you cannot lie to people and pretend that this is a wedding because it is not.

I am usually the Knottie who advises invitation wording. Try this:

The pleasure of your company is requested

at the Commitment Ceremony of

Your Name

and

Partner's Name

Saturday, the twenty-third of June

two thousand eighteen

Venue Name

123 Maple Street

Anytown, Iowa

Reception to follow

This wording makes it clear that you are not inviting people to a wedding. He is not your fiance if you are not planning to be legally married. You will not be "husband and wife". "Partner" is a more accurate word. Many senior citizens (I am one) decide to do this because of legal tangles with family. I hope you have a lovely ceremony. It can be beautiful and significant.

PS. Be sure and check the marriage laws of your state. There are states that would recognize you as being legally married (common law) without the paperwork!

LondonLisa · March 2018

I agree with the above that you should have a commitment ceremony, and avoid wedding phrasing. You aren’t a bride. No bridal showers, bachelorette parties, bridesmaids etc.

But the bigger issue is: are you OK with not being married? Whilst yes, the legal aspect makes it hard to extricate oneself, that is because it gives protections. Especially with 2 young children. For example, if you gave up work to care for your children, if the relationship breaks down and you are married, that is taken into account in the settlement. If not legally married, you get nothing. Including having to leave the house if it is just in his name. You are entitled to nothing. EVERYONE thinks their relationship is going to last, or that people are going to be ‘fair’ in breakups. The sad reality is unmarried women with children are routinely and regularly screwed by the legal system during relationship breakdowns. This also means you have few automatic rights if he dies, is hospitalised etc. Look at all the challenges gay people faced about marriage and why legal protection is key- if he is in hospital, you will not be the person asked to make medical decisions. You will not receive any government or pension benefits.

This isn’t a compromise- you are trading one day of attention for a lifetime safety net. It’s your life, and of course chose what’s best for you. But only if you are prepared to literally walk away from all of this with nothing that you didn’t come in with. It doesn’t matter if you paid the mortgage, if the house is in his name, it’s his. You are entitled to nothing. He will legally have a responsibility for his kids, but he has nothing to you.

I know you love him, and think this will be fine, but truly ask yourself: Is one day of feeling like a ‘bride’ enough for giving up a lifetime of protection for you and your children? Because that doesn’t seem like a ‘compromise,’ it seems like placating.

CMGragain · March 2018

@LondonLisa is a very wise lady. Please listen to her. If you haven't talked to a lawyer about this, please do it now. You need to understand what you are giving up.

artbyallie · March 2018

Have you checked your local laws? In many places, living together as if married for a certain number of years makes you common-law married anyway.

And I agree with PPs, don't lie to people. You can't have a wedding at which you do not get married; that's the definition of a wedding. Call it something else or get married; those are your only options.

[Deleted User] · March 2018

Thank you for repling, i wasent aware that "commitment ceremony" was the correct words to use. However, yes we are engaged and I have been calling him my fiancé for years now so that will not change. We have just resently decided to not make it legal. We talked about what it means to us and what we both want. We currently have our wills and everything legal done so if something happens to him I get everything and vice versa. The house is in both our names. We are common law (in Quebec) so legally it dosent change much. My fiancé has even been putting money in a retierment savings plan for me. He started that when we had our first child because I was not going to be working.
Im happy with the desision we made. It might not be what everyone wants and some might not get it but since this is our decision I think thats what counts the most.
We have no intentions of lying or misleading our guest! This is why i came here for ideas how to word it properly . Since we live in Quebec things are quite diffrent. If we were to split I still get 50% of everything. The only thing I cant touch is his pention. Wich is why my fiancé started one for me in the first place. Thank you all for your input and ideas.

Jen4948 · March 2018

If you are not getting married, then you are not having a "wedding." Pretending that you are without clarifying for your guests that they are not seeing you actually get married = "lying."

And as PPs have noted, holding yourselves out as a married couple, whether or not you have a legal marriage certificate, could lead to you being treated as "common-law married."

And to be be honest with you, I personally would really resent being invited to such an event and not told that what I'm seeing doesn't constitute a legal marriage. I also am not into seeing couples "celebrate their coupledom" without getting legally married because one or both "don't believe in marriage." It comes across as a big, expensive ego-fest. I prefer to spend my time and money in other ways than as a guest at such an event. Lots of people in this forum feel the same,and you might find that this is also true of your families and friends.

PS - "silence" on the matter =/= "agreement" with it or "support" for it. And you might be surprised at how many people you believe will go along with it "because they love you" actually won't.

PPS - Marriage records, and the lack thereof, are public. It can be easily checked out that you're not getting married. Forget about keeping that aspect of all this "secret." And forget about whether it's "anyone else's business." As a citizen and taxpayer, I hate being lied to about someone else's marital status who claims the benefits of a state he or she is not actually legally entitled to. That's called "fraud," BTW.

[Deleted User] · March 2018

Again ladies, our goal is not to be lying to our guests! We do not want to mislead anyone wich is why i am seeking ideas. No need to be mean and no need to be rude! We are not keeping any secrets form anyone, we just want to find what works for us. Again the US is what is most important. I refuse to lose my loving family over getting married if its not what my fiancé wants. I have cheked into it and it is completly ok to do it this way in Quebec. We cannot how ever use the words " i now pronounce you man and wife" but we can say " i now pronounce you united by love". I even spoke to a few of the venues about it, most have told me that they are seeing more and more couples do this. Mabey its a Quebec thing? Not sure but we are obviously not the only ones doing it this way.

CMGragain · March 2018

No one was mean or rude to you. We are sincerely trying to help you.

A wedding needs these things: a couple who wants to get married (You do not qualify!), a valid marriage license in the state or province you are having the ceremony (You won't have this), a licensed officiant (You won't have one) and legal witnesses.

There is nothing illegal or wrong about having a commitment ceremony, as long as you make it clear that this is what it is. In your first post you said that you were having "a wedding". You are not. If you tell people this, you will be lying. I even gave you the proper wording for your invitation.

Commitment ceremonies were often used by same sex couples in the old days before they could be legally married. Now that the laws have changed, they are seldom used, since most couples want and need the legal protection of marriage.

A fiance is someone who wants to marry you. Your partner may be the father of your children, but he has made it very clear that he does not want to marry you. Therefore, he cannot be your fiance. Telling people that he is would be a lie.

What about what YOU want? Do you really want the protection of marriage for your loving family? We have warned you about the consequences of your choice. Please think very long and hard before you give in to your partner's demands. He is not thinking about the children's best interest, or yours, either. Yes, we care, here.

You must do what you think is best. You can certainly have a commitment ceremony if this is what you really want.

[Deleted User] · March 2018

Well he is my fiancé, sorry if you dont approve of my wording. He got down on one knee asked me to marry him and gave me a engagement ring. We had started to look into a wedding but i got pregnant. Then we had another. So two babies latter (and years latter) we started to talk about having a wedding and a marrige. This is were he told me that if he got married he would only be doinb it for me. That to him the legal part of marrige doseny mean noyhing to him. So thats were the discussion started. I do not want to pressure him in getting married (legally) because i do not think thats right. I make my own money (now that im back at work) and i can take care of myself. I dont need a man to provide for me or to offer me security. I make more then him anyways. So someone please explain what "im missing out" on tge legal side because i dont see any advantages to me in getting married other than being able to say "we are married".
I dont mean to offend anyone in saying this but thats my way of thinking. If it came down to it I could support myself and my kids just fine without him. You say the protection of marrige... what additional protection do i have? Our wills are made up, if we split i get haft of everything because I own half of everything. If we were ever to split he would be worst off then me since we will have to pay for child support. No he will not pay for me, nor do i need him too. So unless im missing something then please explain it.
I called it a wedding in my first post because i did not know what else to call it. We have no intention of lying to anyone. I was just wondering what to write on my invitations so that people will understand what it is.
If he said "i want to get married" i would. But i will not leave him for something that he dosent want to do. My family and our relationship is worth more to me than the title of "wife".

CMGragain · March 2018

knottiee2b9a96b23cc8a1f said:

Again ladies, our goal is not to be lying to our guests! We do not want to mislead anyone wich is why i am seeking ideas. No need to be mean and no need to be rude! We are not keeping any secrets form anyone, we just want to find what works for us. Again the US is what is most important. I refuse to lose my loving family over getting married if its not what my fiancé wants. I have cheked into it and it is completly ok to do it this way in Quebec. We cannot how ever use the words " i now pronounce you man and wife" but we can say " i now pronounce you united by love". I even spoke to a few of the venues about it, most have told me that they are seeing more and more couples do this. Mabey its a Quebec thing? Not sure but we are obviously not the only ones doing it this way.

Oops! Forgot to quote!

CMGragain · March 2018

knottiee2b9a96b23cc8a1f said:

Well he is my fiancé, sorry if you dont approve of my wording. He got down on one knee asked me to marry him and gave me a engagement ring. We had started to look into a wedding but i got pregnant. Then we had another. So two babies latter (and years latter) we started to talk about having a wedding and a marrige. This is were he told me that if he got married he would only be doinb it for me. That to him the legal part of marrige doseny mean noyhing to him. So thats were the discussion started. I do not want to pressure him in getting married (legally) because i do not think thats right. I make my own money (now that im back at work) and i can take care of myself. I dont need a man to provide for me or to offer me security. I make more then him anyways. So someone please explain what "im missing out" on tge legal side because i dont see any advantages to me in getting married other than being able to say "we are married".
I dont mean to offend anyone in saying this but thats my way of thinking. If it came down to it I could support myself and my kids just fine without him. You say the protection of marrige... what additional protection do i have? Our wills are made up, if we split i get haft of everything because I own half of everything. If we were ever to split he would be worst off then me since we will have to pay for child support. No he will not pay for me, nor do i need him too. So unless im missing something then please explain it.
I called it a wedding in my first post because i did not know what else to call it. We have no intention of lying to anyone. I was just wondering what to write on my invitations so that people will understand what it is.
If he said "i want to get married" i would. But i will not leave him for something that he dosent want to do. My family and our relationship is worth more to me than the title of "wife".

After reading your explanation, yes, you were engaged to be married for a long time, and he WAS your fiance. Since he now has no intention of marrying you, he has broken your engagement, and he cannot be called your fiance.

There are many lawyers who can explain to you how important the difference is between being married and not being married. Please talk to one! You have your children's future at stake. If you do not understand the advantages, you are missing something very important!

Nobody here cares if you get married or not. We don't care WHY, either. We tried to help you with suggestions, and you came back with attitude. You are free to have your commitment ceremony, but why defend it? If it really is what YOU want, go for it, but talk to the lawyer first. I am afraid that you are making a terrible mistake.

LondonLisa · March 2018

If you are happy with this, go ahead and have your commitment ceremony, but you need to be crystal clear with everyone involved it is not a wedding. You are not a bride, he is not a groom. Nothing that screams bridal or wedding. No big white wedding dress, veils, bridesmaids, flower girls, hen/stag do, wedding gift list, showers etc.

Just remember, this is not a wedding. It is just a party. If you wouldnt do it for a regular birthday/anniversary party, don’t do it here.

He is not your fiancé because you are not getting married. He is your partner. The reasons people place such a big deal on weddings is you are watching people make a lifelong legal commitment. You are foregoing that because you gave up the legal aspect. You need to make sure each guest is aware this is not a wedding, but a self declared commitment ceremony.

ernursej · March 2018

I’m going to say something that may not be popular - What you you call him is up to you. I would find it hard to change what I called someone after plans changed. I think that you are fine if you proceed with the commitment ceremony. @CMGragain has a good suggestion for wording.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with not getting legally married, but your may be commonlaw in the eyes of the government if you live together and present each other as your spouse.

I recommend some sort of prenuptial agreement/commonlaw agreement. i had a co-habitation agreement with my then boyfriend and we had a prenup before we married. It isn’t sexy, but it is very practical. It may also be worth speaking to a family lawyer about implications if you split up. Are you both entitled to spousal support, would you be on the hook to pay him if you make more, how would assets be divided? Wills are great but if government gets involved they may interpret differently. You may also want to speak with a tax lawyer about tax implications if you aren’t legally married but seen as commonlaw in the eyes of the government.

Im asking this for own curiosity, in the absence of him wanting to get legally married, why spend the money on a commitment ceremony?

CMGragain · March 2018

Too late. She deleted and ran.

ernursej · March 2018

[Deleted User] said:

Thank you for repling, i wasent aware that "commitment ceremony" was the correct words to use. However, yes we are engaged and I have been calling him my fiancé for years now so that will not change. We have just resently decided to not make it legal. We talked about what it means to us and what we both want. We currently have our wills and everything legal done so if something happens to him I get everything and vice versa. The house is in both our names. We are common law (in Quebec) so legally it dosent change much. My fiancé has even been putting money in a retierment savings plan for me. He started that when we had our first child because I was not going to be working.
Im happy with the desision we made. It might not be what everyone wants and some might not get it but since this is our decision I think thats what counts the most.
We have no intentions of lying or misleading our guest! This is why i came here for ideas how to word it properly . Since we live in Quebec things are quite diffrent. If we were to split I still get 50% of everything. The only thing I cant touch is his pention. Wich is why my fiancé started one for me in the first place. Thank you all for your input and ideas.

You may want to double check the pension thought. It may be different in Quebec but I work with a lady that was commonlaw and she just found out that her now ex partner may actually be entitled to some of her pension. They had filed taxes together to improve deductions for the kids and that apparently led to this being a possibility.

southernbelle0915 · March 2018

[Deleted User] said:

(snip)
He got down on one knee asked me to marry him and gave me a engagement ring.
(snip)

But now y'all aren't getting married because he "doesn't believe in it" since his batting average is 0-3? Sounds like you're off to an awesome start. /*sarcasm

flantastic · March 2018

southernbelle0915 said:

[Deleted User] said:

(snip)
He got down on one knee asked me to marry him and gave me a engagement ring.
(snip)

But now y'all aren't getting married because he "doesn't believe in it" since his batting average is 0-3? Sounds like you're off to an awesome start. /*sarcasm

This is where I am. [I know you're gone but maybe lurking, so] What is he asking you? If his divorces made him believe a lifelong commitment wasn't possible, he wouldn't have proposed.

I'm not sure what it could mean to say that he doesn't believe in the "legal aspect" of marriage except that he doesn't want the legal hassle of extricating himself from you later (and therefore is denying you those legal protections). I can understand that it makes the breakup longer, and more expensive, but that's part of the commitment you make in marrying in the first place. If he's not willing to make that commitment, then what is the commitment you'd both be making at your ceremony?

Deciding this "recently" after you've been engaged for a while tells me that this man is rethinking his level of commitment to you.

banana468 · March 2018

I can tell you that I wouldn't enter into a fake commitment with someone who backtracked on his word.

If you want to marry me then marry me. Don't ask me to marry you and then tell you that you don't believe in it but that you believe I'm entitled to all the things I get with a legal marriage. It makes NO sense.

levioosa · March 2018

Ditto everyone. There’s a big difference between both parties never wanting to get legally married in the first place, but still wanting a commitment ceremony, and someone who proposed, and then went back on his word. He wanted to marry you, and then he didn’t. That would be a huge red flag to me. Having previous divorces just wouldn’t justify a change of mind like that. Is he having second thoughts? Why exactly is he so willing to have a commitment ceremony but not an actual legal ceremony that would be both a commitment event, and give you legal equality? Food for thought, OP, if you’re still lurking.

ei34 · March 2018

Yeah breaking off a proposal would occupy my thoughts more than the nitty-gritty of the comittment ceremony.

CMGragain · March 2018

I wonder how many kids this guy has made so far? Thinking about this because I have an ex-BIL who has been married 4 times and has zero personal interaction with his offspring. Very sad.

Commitment? This was the number one reason I married DH.

banana468 · March 2018

I'd run for the hills.

What about if the relationship just ends? Do you have any agreement that you're legally entitled to his earnings to support you and the kids? What about your home?

FWIW, at this point now that you're parents I would want every possible protection in writing. That still doesn't prevent your relationship from ending but I wouldn't even live with my SO without knowing that I have legal protection.

short+sassy · March 2018

If nothing else, it sounds like the OP at least got the phrase "Commitment Ceremony" as to what to call their event.

Because, agreed, if a couple I knew had been referring to their SO as their fiancé for 5 years. And then started talking about a wedding. I'd assume it was...a wedding, ie legal ceremony.

I wanted to throw in my two cents because I was in a little bit of a similar situation. When I met my H, he'd been divorced twice and I'd never been married. He never said marriage was "off the table". But 12 years went by and he'd never proposed and said "someday" (while squirming) when the subject came up.

Marriage was important to me, but he was more important and I resigned myself to the fact that we'd probably never get married. And then in Year 12, he surprised me one day by saying he wanted to shop for engagement rings. He proposed a few months later.

Long before our engagement, we had been planning our lives together already. And there is nothing wrong with that. People sometimes have very good reasons for being longtime couples and not getting married. However, we NEVER referred to each other as "fiancée" or "husband/wife", until after getting engaged/after getting married. Because words have meanings.

Obviously I don't want to tell the OP how to feel, but I would have been pretty devastated if my SO had proposed and been calling me his FI for 5 years and then decided he didn't actually want to get married. For me, that would have been a cue for some serious discussions to be happening.

banana468 · March 2018

short+sassy said:

If nothing else, it sounds like the OP at least got the phrase "Commitment Ceremony" as to what to call their event.
Because, agreed, if a couple I knew had been referring to their SO as their fiancé for 5 years. And then started talking about a wedding. I'd assume it was...a wedding, ie legal ceremony.
I wanted to throw in my two cents because I was in a little bit of a similar situation. When I met my H, he'd been divorced twice and I'd never been married. He never said marriage was "off the table". But 12 years went by and he'd never proposed and said "someday" (while squirming) when the subject came up.
Marriage was important to me, but he was more important and I resigned myself to the fact that we'd probably never get married. And then in Year 12, he surprised me one day by saying he wanted to shop for engagement rings. He proposed a few months later.
Long before our engagement, we had been planning our lives together already. And there is nothing wrong with that. People sometimes have very good reasons for being longtime couples and not getting married. However, we NEVER referred to each other as "fiancée" or "husband/wife", until after getting engaged/after getting married. Because words have meanings.
Obviously I don't want to tell the OP how to feel, but I would have been pretty devastated if my SO had proposed and been calling me his FI for 5 years and then decided he didn't actually want to get married. For me, that would have been a cue for some serious discussions to be happening.

That's where I am.

IMO, it's bachelor bait and switch.

If we're in a relationship and the groundwork has been laid for my SO to say that he doesn't want a commitment then it's no surprise if he isn't making one.

But I'm not a fan of back tracking. Don't propose (literally) and then decide that it's not working. Don't call me your fiance if you do not desire to marry me. And PLEASE - get your shit together and figure that out long before you do it. Don't create a fake commitment ceremony in the hopes that the party and dress up is what I want. I don't want that. I want the MARRIAGE and everything that specific legal (and religious) binding contains.

I feel like the this is the 100 calorie pack version of attempting to give what the OP wants. It sort of looks like it and in the end it's sort of what she was wanting and yet - it's just not.

Jen4948 · March 2018

banana468 said:

I'd run for the hills.

What about if the relationship just ends? Do you have any agreement that you're legally entitled to his earnings to support you and the kids? What about your home?

FWIW, at this point now that you're parents I would want every possible protection in writing. That still doesn't prevent your relationship from ending but I wouldn't even live with my SO without knowing that I have legal protection.

I'd run away too.

A relationship that's supposed to simulate marriage without any legal protection just isn't worth the risks you list, not to mention claims to any other property acquired together and other things like not being his next of kin, and him not being your next of kin in case of emergencies and things like that.

knottie98ebac5e0c120ed8 · January 2021

Shame on all of you.

Delegitimizating a union between two people for the fun of it, and harassing another human being (a stranger!). I would love to see a poll of who is still “married” 50 years from now. But since the Establishment doesn’t take into account happiness—only “marriage”— you are bound to be okay (by law!).

Remember that another human being is behind this screen. One with a pulse, a family, and an image of themselves and the world. Don’t taint it with your alarming lack of compassion and empathy.

Having a wedding but not legally married

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