S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll

526SadieSadie · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_atheistagnostic-question-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:dae04e66-42aa-4bf8-b09d-e8fb8df0294dPost:04160d0d-dbfd-49b4-9d8c-172e2907322d">Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll</a>:
[QUOTE]Sadie, FI's family celebrates American Thanksgiving and Canadian Thanksgiving on the grounds that you can never have too much turkey. :)
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]

I whole-heartedly agree!!

526SadieSadie · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_atheistagnostic-question-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:dae04e66-42aa-4bf8-b09d-e8fb8df0294dPost:6e4c088c-575a-47b5-ab23-f2af59a0c088">Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll : They mean something to some of us. I totally understand that they were 'stolen' and have pagen roots. However, that's not why my family and I celebrate them. They mean something to us as the religious meanings that they represent .
Posted by louisvillebride21[/QUOTE]

I think it's really interesting that you acknowledge the pagan roots but you still identify them with your religion, it's....I dunno, interesting covers it.

wadingmoose · June 2010

Ironic would also work considering she appears to be confused about the fact that for some people those holidays no longer have religious meaning.

I suspect this is much the way the Pagans felt when their holidays were hijacked to make Christianity more palatable to them.

jasmineh7777 · June 2010

Sadie-Most of Christianity comes from polytheistic roots, because monotheism is still relatively new. One of the oldest texts called, The Epic of Gilgamesh, combines a large part of the Old Testament into one story.

louisvillebride21 · June 2010

No one here is denying the pagan roots. I also acknowledge that my religion 'stole' the days and assigned their own meanings to it. Those are the meanings that I...respond to? I mean, everything in our lives has some assigned meaning. Nothing is inherent. It has meaning because we give it meaning. So I (along with my religion) choose to give Christmas and Easter meaning. You (general, agnostic, atheist, I-dont-give-a-damn-people) choose to only 'celebrate' the family and commercial side of things. No one is right or wrong or ignorant or stupid for their decision.

louisvillebride21 · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_atheistagnostic-question-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dae04e66-42aa-4bf8-b09d-e8fb8df0294dPost:d1718043-a676-4076-8fd7-a2f3e5eba092">Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll</a>:
[QUOTE]Ironic would also work considering she appears to be confused about the fact that for some people those holidays no longer have religious meaning. I suspect this is much the way the Pagans felt when their holidays were hijacked to make Christianity more palatable to them.
Posted by wadingmoose[/QUOTE]
What? I never said that. I said that it has meaning for SOME of us. I'm not trying to be inclusive here, saying it should have the same meaning for everyone. She said that the holidays don't mean anything. I responded that they do in fact mean something to some of us.

danieliza1127 · June 2010

No one here is denying the pagan roots. I also acknowledge that my religion 'stole' the days and assigned their own meanings to it. Those are the meanings that I...respond to? I mean, everything in our lives has some assigned meaning. Nothing is inherent. It has meaning because we give it meaning. So I (along with my religion) choose to give Christmas and Easter meaning. You (general, agnostic, atheist, I-dont-give-a-damn-people) choose to only 'celebrate' the family and commercial side of things. No one is right or wrong or ignorant or stupid for their decision.

Well said LVB. I agree from the I-dont-give-a-damn perspective.

jasmineh7777 · June 2010

I think it has been acknolwedged that the meaning for a lot of people is completely secular. That is basically what I was trying to get at.
Although I don't think that the "it was the pagan calander first" thing holds a lot of bearing on the beliefs of the religious people that have participated. I mean, it doesn't alter my beliefs knowing that Christianity was in direct competition to paganism. I still believe with I believe, and honestly my level of faith is variable from day to day.

wadingmoose · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_atheistagnostic-question-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dae04e66-42aa-4bf8-b09d-e8fb8df0294dPost:bf678395-efe1-40da-ae1e-84d8223382ca">Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll : What? I never said that. I said that it has meaning for SOME of us. I'm not trying to be inclusive here, saying it should have the same meaning for everyone. She said that the holidays don't mean anything. I responded that they do in fact mean something to some of us.
Posted by louisvillebride21[/QUOTE]

Sorry LVB, I wasn't referring to you. It's Jasmine who seems confused by the situation, not you :)

louisvillebride21 · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_atheistagnostic-question-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dae04e66-42aa-4bf8-b09d-e8fb8df0294dPost:42521db1-35e2-407a-a122-c4cfb0453422">Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll</a>:
[QUOTE]I think it has been acknolwedged that the meaning for a lot of people is completely secular. That is basically what I was trying to get at. Although I don't think that the "it was the pagan calander first" thing holds a lot of bearing on the beliefs of the religious people that have participated. I mean, it doesn't alter my beliefs knowing that Christianity was in direct competition to paganism. <strong>I still believe with I believe, and honestly my level of faith is variable from day to day.</strong>
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I really struggle with some of my faith.

MissLeahM · June 2010

When we filed our marriage licence we had to fill in a space where it asked for our religion, Ry put christian (or something similar) and I wrote n/a, and the clerk argued with me on it. I told her I don't identify with any religion. She ended up leaving it because she was fed up with talking to me.

526SadieSadie · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_atheistagnostic-question-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:dae04e66-42aa-4bf8-b09d-e8fb8df0294dPost:1d0bfd26-215d-4fe6-8988-e95c9a505d8a">Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll</a>:
[QUOTE]No one here is denying the pagan roots. I also acknowledge that my religion 'stole' the days and assigned their own meanings to it. Those are the meanings that I...respond to? I mean, everything in our lives has some assigned meaning. Nothing is inherent. It has meaning because we give it meaning. So I (along with my religion) choose to give Christmas and Easter meaning. You (general, agnostic, atheist, I-dont-give-a-damn-people) choose to only 'celebrate' the family and commercial side of things. No one is right or wrong or ignorant or stupid for their decision.
Posted by louisvillebride21[/QUOTE]

You're misunderstanding me, I'm not making fun of you, I actually like the way you just phrased this, btw. I truly think it's interesting that people, as you put it, respond to holidays when they at the same time acknowledge the days were stolen and do not comemorate what they are said to.

louisvillebride21 · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_atheistagnostic-question-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dae04e66-42aa-4bf8-b09d-e8fb8df0294dPost:167ba8bd-91d2-42fa-9a12-ddaf52981227">Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll</a>:
[QUOTE]When we filed our marriage lisence we had to fill in a space where it asked for our religion, Ry put christian (or something similar) and I wrote n/a, and the clerk argued with me on it. I told her I don't identify with any religion. She ended up leaving it because she was fed up with talking to me.
Posted by MissLeahM[/QUOTE]
That's totally ridiculous. I would have been furious and asked for a manager. Don't argue with me about my religion (or lack there of) when it's none of your damn business. I swear, the intolerance from both sides kills me.

jasmineh7777 · June 2010

I'm not confused. I'm just not out to convince anyone that I'm right. The holidays have a religious meaning to me, and to those that celebrate them for religious reasons. The holidays have moved from being religious events to being secular events. What am I not understanding?

526SadieSadie · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_atheistagnostic-question-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:dae04e66-42aa-4bf8-b09d-e8fb8df0294dPost:7a341e36-b680-416a-b21c-c082ed2e8402">Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll</a>:
[QUOTE]Sadie-Most of Christianity comes from polytheistic roots, because monotheism is still relatively new. One of the oldest texts called, The Epic of Gilgamesh, combines a large part of the Old Testament into one story.
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

I'm quite familiar with Gilgamesh, I also wonder how many people realize that the Jesus Christ myth is almost identical to the myth of the Egyptian god Horus. Statues of Horus and his mother Isis look like almost every pieta I have ever seen. Religions are just really facinating. I wouldn't make fun of anyone for their religious beliefs, whatever helps you get up in the morning when life just plain sucks, bully to that.

louisvillebride21 · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_atheistagnostic-question-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dae04e66-42aa-4bf8-b09d-e8fb8df0294dPost:abb333a7-bd6e-4350-bcb7-d925c152802d">Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll : You're misunderstanding me, I'm not making fun of you, I actually like the way you just phrased this, btw. I truly think it's interesting that people, as you put it, respond to holidays when they at the same time acknowledge the days were stolen and do not comemorate what they are said to.
Posted by 526SadieSadie[/QUOTE]
Maybe that's where faith comes in? You can know something consciously, but feel something different in your heart? And I know that's where we as religious folks lose a lot of scientific minded people.

sarahmk5 · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_atheistagnostic-question-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dae04e66-42aa-4bf8-b09d-e8fb8df0294dPost:abb333a7-bd6e-4350-bcb7-d925c152802d">Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll : You're misunderstanding me, I'm not making fun of you, I actually like the way you just phrased this, btw. I truly think it's interesting that people, as you put it, respond to holidays when they at the same time acknowledge the days were stolen and <strong>do not comemorate what they are said to. </strong>
Posted by 526SadieSadie[/QUOTE]

<div>But to me, as a Catholic, they do commemorate what they are said to. I recognize that the church planned the holidays strategically, but Christmas could represent the birth of Christ to me whether it was December of June.</div>

jasmineh7777 · June 2010

Sadie, That's the "faith" part I suppose. But faith isn't easy either. It would be easy to be blindly faithful. It's much harder for me to question my religion and still believe at the end of the day. If I hadn't been raised as a Catholic, I'd probably be a much different person. Ask me 10 years from now, and I may very well be agnostic.

eastunder1 · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_atheistagnostic-question-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dae04e66-42aa-4bf8-b09d-e8fb8df0294dPost:9d060f6b-40d7-4177-b90e-f4ccf908119b">Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll</a>:
[QUOTE]I find it interesting that so many people on this board feel the need to put a label on themselves, like agnostic or atheist. I don't call myself anything and neither does my H, and neither do our friends IRL who aren't religious. I guess I just always figured you're either a religion (Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, etc) or you're not. I don't see why everything has to be labeled. Anyway, just an observation.
Posted by danieliza1127[/QUOTE]

I think applying a label to yourself pertaining to a certian situation =/= needing/using that label as a identifiying characteristic in your life. Someone entering this thread, or other threads pertaining to life/religioous values may say "I'm an atheist/ I'm an agnostic" as a quick way to state where they stand before expressing their opinions. That doesn't mean they wear that badge as a focal point of their lives like one would with a career (I'm a teacher!) or a proud ethnic heritage (I'm Hispanic!).

Celles · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_atheistagnostic-question-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:dae04e66-42aa-4bf8-b09d-e8fb8df0294dPost:e0ca5ed1-a1f8-4e53-837e-d8eaac73f5e6">Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll : I've had an athiest explain to me Athiests believe in NOTHING which is very different than just not knowing/caring/ being neutral to religion.
Posted by reddy123[/QUOTE]

I disagree with this person's definition.

Atheism isn't a belief in NOTHING; it's the absence of a belief in SOMETHING. This is actually a pet peeve of mine, because I can't tell you how many theists have tried to tell me that atheism is a belief like any other. Allegedly, in the absence of irrefutable proof one way or the other, I'm taking it on faith that God does not exist. Except... I'm not! I'm simply don't believe in God.

That said -- and this is wandering slightly off-topic -- I'd love to have a conversation with the KPS poster who feels sorry for atheists. The natural universe is absolutely stunning in its complexity, and I feel SO humbled and awed to be an infinitesimally small but still inextricably connected part of it. So please, don't feel sorry for me. I don't. :)

wadingmoose · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_atheistagnostic-question-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dae04e66-42aa-4bf8-b09d-e8fb8df0294dPost:4f88d1ae-37b4-4c6d-8e8e-f46262dc6b47">Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm not confused. I'm just not out to convince anyone that I'm right. The holidays have a religious meaning to me, and to those that celebrate them for religious reasons. The holidays have moved from being religious events to being secular events. What am I not understanding?
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

By asking if we "celebrate" Christmas and Easter, it seems like you're implying that we shouldn't get together with family on these days.

If you understand that the holidays are now secular as well as Christian, then you wouldn't point out that you don't celebrate Jewish holidays. FWIW, I don't either, but if work gave me a day off to celebrate Kwanzaa, Passover or any other religious-but-not-Christian holiday, I would also take that time to spend with my family. That would include a big family dinner just because that's what happens when I go home.

It wouldn't mean that I'm celebrating that religion. I think a lot of people find your question and the implications around how you've phrased it to be insulting and somewhat amusing considering Christmas isn't actually they day that Christ was born. Your tone seems to be put out that other people celebrate Christmas even though they aren't religious and you've actually commented on this before about your FI.

Why is it such a big deal to you? Why does it matter that other people gather with their families on the same day that you do, regardless of their reasons for it?

526SadieSadie · June 2010

Again Louisville, no offense intended and I'm honestly not making fun, but the "I feel it in my heart" thing sounds like a major cop-out.

There are many people who feel things in their hearts that are still wrong. It can be argued that people who kill people because "god wants them to" believe with every fiber of their being that the murder is ok. Beliefs are sometimes dangerous.

The gunman who murders a doctor who provides abortion services in front of his entire family, spraying his blood on his children, believes that what he did was right.

jasmineh7777 · June 2010

I'm totally projecting my view on the KPS poster, but...
I'm sometimes sad that FI isn't religious because I think "What if I'm right? What if there is an afterlife, and FI isn't there with me." Now, I believe that if there is a God he isn't so petty as to condemn anyone who didn't praise him, but that was a fear I really had to work through.

eastunder1 · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_atheistagnostic-question-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dae04e66-42aa-4bf8-b09d-e8fb8df0294dPost:e0ecf755-7184-4e73-8e70-54bd4016dc0e">Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll : By asking if we "celebrate" Christmas and Easter, it seems like you're implying that we shouldn't get together with family on these days. If you understand that the holidays are now secular as well as Christian, then you wouldn't point out that you don't celebrate Jewish holidays. FWIW, I don't either, but if work gave me a day off to celebrate Kwanzaa, Passover or any other religious-but-not-Christian holiday, I would also take that time to spend with my family. That would include a big family dinner just because that's what happens when I go home. It wouldn't mean that I'm celebrating that religion. I think a lot of people find your question and the implications around how you've phrased it to be insulting and somewhat amusing considering Christmas isn't actually they day that Christ was born. Your tone seems to be put out that other people celebrate Christmas even though they aren't religious and you've actually commented on this before about your FI. <strong>Why is it such a big deal to you? Why does it matter that other people gather with their families on the same day that you do, regardless of their reasons for it?</strong>
Posted by wadingmoose[/QUOTE]

Yes, this. All of it, but specifically this.

danieliza1127 · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_atheistagnostic-question-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dae04e66-42aa-4bf8-b09d-e8fb8df0294dPost:28b81540-a4a3-4e37-9ab1-e1518b63b66e">Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll</a>:
[QUOTE]Again Louisville, no offense intended and I'm honestly not making fun, but the "I feel it in my heart" thing sounds like a major cop-out. There are many people who feel things in their hearts that are still wrong. It can be argued that people who kill people because "god wants them to" believe with every fiber of their being that the murder is ok. Beliefs are sometimes dangerous. The gunman who murders a doctor who provides abortion services in front of his entire family, spraying his blood on his children, believes that what he did was right.
Posted by 526SadieSadie[/QUOTE]

Those are all extremes I think. I mean, I'm not Christian, I'm not religious but even I know that the things you listed here are not generalizations. Those are extreme crazy people circumstances. My Dad left his wife and 4 kids with $60 in the bank and no car because God told him to, but I certainly don't think for a second that all other Christians would do the same thing.

louisvillebride21 · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_atheistagnostic-question-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dae04e66-42aa-4bf8-b09d-e8fb8df0294dPost:28b81540-a4a3-4e37-9ab1-e1518b63b66e">Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll</a>:
[QUOTE]Again Louisville, no offense intended and I'm honestly not making fun, but the "I feel it in my heart" thing sounds like a major cop-out. There are many people who feel things in their hearts that are still wrong. It can be argued that people who kill people because "god wants them to" believe with every fiber of their being that the murder is ok. Beliefs are sometimes dangerous. The gunman who murders a doctor who provides abortion services in front of his entire family, spraying his blood on his children, believes that what he did was right.
Posted by 526SadieSadie[/QUOTE]
I think that's such a stretch. I'm not hurting anyone by believing that my God exists. I don't push my religion on anyone, I don't try to convert anyone, I don't take my beliefs to what I see as extremes. What does it matter to anyone what I practice in my home and in my place of worship? How does it hurt anyone that I might 'talk to God' in my car during my commute? I don't see saying that as a cop out because I'm not trying to DO anything here. I'm not trying to convert you, I'm simply having a discussion on MY beliefs.

wadingmoose · June 2010

I personally think that organized religion has distorted and destroyed the actual meaning of God into a "believe in this or you're going to hell!" message. I don't believe that's what God is about.

I tend to believe that in the end, he cares about who you are as a person and while organized religion gives a good framework for living a good life, I don't think it's the only way to live life as a "good" person.

And I don't think you'd be marrying your FI if he was the kind of person who wouldn't end up in heaven.

So, is it simply enough to worship god and confess sin to end up in heaven? Or does they way you live your life day to day mean more?

526SadieSadie · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_atheistagnostic-question-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:dae04e66-42aa-4bf8-b09d-e8fb8df0294dPost:2e2b74f5-4d7a-401b-9218-1c1594eda7c6">Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm totally projecting my view on the KPS poster, but... I'm sometimes sad that FI isn't religious because I think "What if I'm right? What if there is an afterlife, and FI isn't there with me." Now, I believe that if there is a God he isn't so petty as to condemn anyone who didn't praise him, but that was a fear I really had to work through.
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

I think most agnostic/atheist/otherwise inclined people have had the "what if I'm wrong?" moment Jasmine so you're definitely not alone.
What concerns me is what if the whackos are right? I mean, the far far far extremely right -wing fundamentalist conservatives that think everyone that they hate, God also hates and are condemned to eternal suffering in hell. What if these people aren't misguided? That's enough to give me pause. Jerry Falwell making it to heaven....::shudder::

jasmineh7777 · June 2010

Wading, I think of celebrating as going out of your way to acknowledge something. I don't care if other people are celebrating Easter, my point is just that it is moving from a religious holiday to a secular holiday. Would "acknowledge" have been a better way to phrase it?
It's not as if other people celebrating Christmas makes it less special/religious for me. I'm just curious as to how other people view these days. I've always viewed them from a religious standpoint.Obviously, other people look at it in a different way. I wasn't trying to offend anyone, although I think it is hard to convey tone via text.

louisvillebride21 · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_atheistagnostic-question-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dae04e66-42aa-4bf8-b09d-e8fb8df0294dPost:53578646-af42-44b9-8beb-6f1b1bfdac89">Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll</a>:
[QUOTE]I personally think that organized religion has distorted and destroyed the actual meaning of God into a "believe in this or you're going to hell!" message. I don't believe that's what God is about. I tend to believe that in the end, he cares about who you are as a person and while organized religion gives a good framework for living a good life, I don't think it's the only way to live life as a "good" person. And I don't think you'd be marrying your FI if he was the kind of person who wouldn't end up in heaven. So, is it simply enough to worship god and confess sin to end up in heaven? Or does they way you live your life day to day mean more?
Posted by wadingmoose[/QUOTE]
And you have nailed it why I struggle with my faith. How is it fair that I get to be a terrible person and yet I can take a bath with a preacher and it's all good? Personally, I try to be a really good person, and it's a plus that I was baptized years ago. If I hadn't been, I certainly would now, but it wouldn't just be about that for me. I'm not going to stop trying to be a good person.

S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll

Re: S/O Atheist/Agnostic Question and Poll

Choose Another Board

Search Boards