We spoke twice a day, mostly mutually initiated. He was on and off the water, while drinking, in an area of not great cell service. We have a child, who wants/asks to speak to him....and he knows that. It was never a bother. I don’t think contact over the bachelor party weekend equals any kind of problem when it was mutual initiated. For the most part it was a lot less than any usual contact that we have, because it was his weekend.
The request for no strippers is just a personal request...something I’m not keen on (think: southern, catholic roots)
Sure I probably need individual counseling, who doesn’t? But I can’t concede that any requests or actions on my part equals any kind of culpability to in any way absolve him of lying about something that would have simply disappointed me at the time, as opposed to now causing major breach of trust.
I realize this is a minor part of the discussion, but this line bothers me.
It's fine if you're personally uncomfortable with strippers, but please don't lump huge demographic groups into that as if Southerners/Catholics are some "special groups of people" where strippers are especially frowned upon. Now, the Catholic religion themselves...or any other Christian denomination or Judaism or Islam...will frown upon strippers. But if you go into a strip club on any Fri./Sat. night, I guarantee there are going to be PLENTY of people there who are going to be members of those faiths.
And, although I wasn't raised in the South, I've lived here for over 20 years. People aren't any more/less bothered by strippers than anywhere else I've lived or impression I have.
Punishment is a weird word, agreed, but consequences wholeheartedly fits better, just trying to get my point across.
I just don’t feel like losing my trust really does anything in this situation. It still forces life to go on except with more in depth discussions and a feeling of me constantly questioning what the truth is.
Punishment is a weird word, agreed, but consequences wholeheartedly fits better, just trying to get my point across.
I just don’t feel like losing my trust really does anything in this situation. It still forces life to go on except with more in depth discussions and a feeling of me constantly questioning what the truth is.
This is why unfortunately you two need to come to an agreement here on how to proceed.
There isn't really a right or wrong answer as long as you both mutually agree to it. The important part is to know that you're both adults here. So he can't be punished and the consequences aren't things that you can dole out as the person who decides how he has to pay for betraying you. This is far more nuanced because you're supposed to be equals here.
You also hit the nail on the head: You are questioning what the truth is. He doesn't have your trust. So in counseling you need to figure out how that gets to be earned again.
I think you two need the counseling but also be introspective.
Your two statements are incongruous. You DID try to control his bachelor party by asking for no stripper to be there. Whether you think that is appropriate is really not important but the fact is, you DID ask for something not to happen. In that vein, is this in keeping with his personality or is this something that is atypical? Does he regularly go to clubs?
The bottom line is that there is a breach of trust and that needs to be remedied. But you two also need to have a deeper conversation on your own trust and control and where that extends. What works for one marriage doesn't work for all but no marriage will work if he lies to you and does what he wants to avoid conflict.
This is where I am. Lying repeatedly, for over a year, is a huge deal. I don't think I could stay married to someone who could do that to me. Trust is so important; I don't know how I'd ever regain trust after so many lies.
That said, I could never imagine myself in a marriage where I needed to exert so much control over my husband. I'm not saying it's right for him to lie to you, but I can see where the lie is not the only issue. If you're controlling his bach party, bringing it up multiple times, and calling twice a day during the party, did you ever really trust him to begin with?
Your language about punishment/consequences are really troubling. This is supposed to be an equal partnership working together. You're acting like you've won something and how have the upper hand to make him do something for you. It doesn't work that way.
At the very least, counselling is in order here.
@MyNameIsNot - Your language here is perfect. I tried over and over again to say this and couldn't phrase it correctly. Why I shouldn't be knotting past my bedtime!
Punishment is a weird word, agreed, but consequences wholeheartedly fits better, just trying to get my point across.
I just don’t feel like losing my trust really does anything in this situation. It still forces life to go on except with more in depth discussions and a feeling of me constantly questioning what the truth is.
SITB:
You say punishment isn't the right word.
Then, "losing my trust doesn't do anything." That's the same red flag as punishment. I would hope it does do something to him. If it doesn't that's probably a whole 'nother issue.
I went back and read your OP. My advice is that you guys need couples counseling to figure out what dynamic is happening here. I think both of you need to be able to look at this relationship as a whole, with both of you as individuals, and figure out what the kernel of the issue is and how, if you can, resolve or deal with it.
And I think you need to work on acknowledging that you are hurt, that your feelings are valid, but that doesn't give you right to mete out punishment, in any situation. You need to learn to deal with your pain in a more healthy manner.
Of course the lying is problematic. But I'm coming from a place where I don't see why strippers are a big deal. I trust my H completely, and I never felt the need to tell him "no strippers". I'm an adult. I know strippers are a common thing at bachelor parties. My H seeing a naked woman in no way jeopardizes our marriage.
I do think you were trying to control his bachelor party, even by making the request. I also think calling him or texting him twice a day while he's on a guy's trip is a bit much. Just my $0.02.
I think your best bet in couples counseling. And I also agree that you thinking he need to be punished is weird.
Am I the only one whose mind is in the gutter thinking "His punishment needs to be wild passionate grinding on each other..."
OP - he's not a child, have the talk that you're PO'd about the lie that was maintained and that that type of stuff ends today and forever. Both of you will do things that the other will get PO'd about temporarily in life, communication is where the fallout typically is and you two need to set up your "rules of engagement" for those types of things. The question is, if he had come home and said "What a weekend - the guys without my knowing in advance brought in a stripper and I realized I hate (anything you like to do to help get both of you in the mood) and never want that in life..." or "Had an awesome weekend, the guys brought in a stripper too.." If you wouldn't have gotten married because there was a stripper at the Bach party as a life dealbreaker, that's one thing. It's another to realize he wasn't in northern Nevada, and strippers - meh - disappointed but life goes on - what's the flavor of the day at the ice cream shop?
The only thing to be disappointed about is the lie and that they didn't invite you along for that part of the show so you could have a lap dance too, and you two need to learn to communicate better. There's a balance of trusting your husband and not accepting being lied to. There is enough to go around on this dynamic that should have been worked through during premarital counseling, but wasn't. It's time to open up that channel of communication between you so that there isn't anything like this in the future AND then it's time to let what happened at his bachelor party go. Something to recognize is that if a stripper knows the person is being dragged up there by his/her buddies, they know how to put on the show to get the buddies to leave the Bach alone without making the recipient get PO'd or turn into a buzzkill or being totally uncomfortable. Stop reading more into the party than there was. It's not the event, it's the coverup.
I keep going back and reading your posts, b/c there's something here I can't quite verbalize well. In all of the posts, you really seem mad about the stripper. Most of your OP is about the stripper, most of the F/U comments are about the stripper or other strippers at other parties he was invited to. And that you don't believe she didn't touch him. And changed from the "party boy" to the laid back step dad.
It seems like you're mad and want to punish him about strippers and lying. And I'm unsure of being mad about strippers. I understand why people get uncomfortable about strippers, but you are also mad that he was at parties not his own, with strippers. I keep shying away from it, but it does feel like he lied b/c there's an issue with strippers beyond "simple disappointment" and he wanted to avoid it. I feel like there's some sort of judgment about strippers and people who associate with strippers as a hang up here and this is muddying the waters.
Hiring a stripper is not like hiring a clown for your child's birthday party. Strippers are used, degraded, and very frequently, trafficked. The myth of the college student stripping her way through college is just that, a myth. (Does anyone really think a girl can work those hours, then get up and go to class?) This is not a lifestyle choice. It is an absolutely shitty job that people fall into and have a very difficult time getting out of.
Asking your fiance to act like a decent human being and not exploit a person is hardly controlling behavior. It is basic decency. Any guy who hires a stripper for fun is either really ignorant about the way these women live or a complete asshole. If you think the big problem is that the OP tried to "control" her fiance's bachelor party, you need to look at the statistics on strippers and other sex workers.
That's why I called this a serious problem and why I suggested counseling for this couple.
Hiring a stripper is not like hiring a clown for your child's birthday party. Strippers are used, degraded, and very frequently, trafficked. The myth of the college student stripping her way through college is just that, a myth. (Does anyone really think a girl can work those hours, then get up and go to class?) This is not a lifestyle choice. It is an absolutely shitty job that people fall into and have a very difficult time getting out of.
Asking your fiance to act like a decent human being and not exploit a person is hardly controlling behavior. It is basic decency. Any guy who hires a stripper for fun is either really ignorant about the way these women live or a complete asshole. If you think the big problem is that the OP tried to "control" her fiance's bachelor party, you need to look at the statistics on strippers and other sex workers.
That's why I called this a serious problem and why I suggested counseling for this couple.
@maine7mob, I think you often miss the point and I think this is true again. You are conflating multiple issues here.
For starters, this is in the past. It's done and the bachelor party was months ago.
Second, your own political feelings on this are still not part of the discussion.
The OP made a request about what the bachelor party would involve. You can throw the "control" in caps as if it makes you roll your eyes but it doesn't change what that request was. I don't know that one person here has said that in all of this thread there's any one issue. There are many issues here and the OP's request and attempt to control her spouse is simply one of them.
And I'm going to say that you jumping to the conclusion that any man who has hired a stripper is an asshole says way more about your closed mindedness than it does about the OP. It means that it's incredibly difficult for you to give her unbiased advice.
Also, as a spouse of someone who is a wonderful man who has legally paid for strippers a handful of times I'll kindly ask you to not call my husband an asshole. You think that if any husband has hired a stripper then he and his wife need counseling simply based on what he legally did? Yeah NO.
Sex workers are workers and deserve respect in their workplace and in how we discuss the industry they are in. Not all sex workers (and I’m including strippers here even though some people don’t) are abused, trafficked, and/or exploited although many, MANY are.
What changes how sex workers are treated? Legalization, regulation, worker protections (including wage protections, health care, unionization). What doesn’t change the treatment of sex workers? Further shame and hiding. Boycott whatever behavior you want to, but simply saying to not hire sex workers and will change the industry is naive.
I don’t know that I agree with some of the above; if their dynamic is to chat 1-2 times a day (normal day and/or when OOT) I don’t see that as controlling. We don’t do that (we never have) but that doesn’t mean is wrong or unhealthy. Sure needing to know where someone is at all times everyday forever raises red flags, but checking in and/or just chatting IMO isn’t the same thing as controlling.
And with the strippers? It doesn’t bother me, but assuming two people have agreed on monogamy it’s not that crazy to think one person might not be comfortable with the other person having a completely naked person dance on them. I think we’ve normalized behavior for bachelor parties that in any other context we’d think was completely unacceptable.
I agree that one person in a relationship can’t lay down rules about what happens at events the other person is at; but I don’t agree that making your preferences about something like this known makes it okay for the other person to lie about it.
It's not about their dynamic. It's the why.
DH and I message each other throughout the day. But it's understood that when he's out with the guys and doing something that he wants to be left alone unless there's a major need that comes up. Work day regular banter =/= weekend away with guys. And we just don't talk on the phone almost ever. So I recognize that calling to check in is not even part of my relationship dynamic. But again, it's WHY is she calling. Is there any valuable purpose that calling him serves?
Whether or not I agree with strippers isn't the point. If you say anything about what you are and are not OK with at the bachelor party that IS a request to have some kind of control. And frankly I don't know that asking that is necessarily bad. But if you make that request you need to acknowledge that you had a part in it, that YOU requested it and that you asked him to make some kind of change.
I am interpreting that the OP asked for no strippers and then was fed a series of lies about how a stripper would not be possible which then made her feel like she was absolved of the request and that it stopped existing. She needs to accept that she asked this because his betrayal of her trust hinges on it.
At no time is it OK that he lied to her.
Maybe a little snarky, but wanting to talk to your partner isn’t a valuable enough reason to call? I get guys weekend (hell my H was gone all weekend without phone service and it’s totally fine) but are we really saying it’s controlling to call your partner?
If her motivation was purely rely to keep tabs on him and check what he’s doing I totally agree that’s a problem. Full stop. But just calling? Eh it doesn’t sound that problematic to me.
But also, she made a request about the strippers. She didn’t (assuming from what she’s said) demand he not go if there were strippers, didn’t call around his and demand no strippers, didn’t call the hotel or anything else to ask what as happening. She made a request. He could have 1) accepted that and said no strippers. 2) said he didn’t know what was happening because he wasn’t planning then party but would ask them not have them 3) said he wanted strippers there and her request wasn’t okay with him and continued to work something out. (There are probably more options too). He didn’t do any of those things, he lied about it.
I guess I don’t get why request for no strippers = she’s controlling what’s going on at his party. She made a request and he could respond to that however he needs to. People make requests all the time of their partners, sometimes they’re granted other times they’re not.
So full on snark: -If you know that your H is in the middle of a group party that's in his honor and you know you're interrupting it, why call? If you were in the middle of your bridal shower / baby shower other girls-only event in your honor and your H wanted to just call when he wasn't welcome at the event is that OK or is it at least interrupting?
-I think it CAN be but doesn't HAVE to be controlling to call your SO. It's all about what motivates the request. If it's, "Hey, Chiquito and Chiquita are hoping to say goodnight to you. Do you mind talking to them for a few minutes?" acknowledges that you're interrupting, asks if he can spare that time and then asserts that you'd appreciate him attending to his CHILD rather than his PARTNER. That's IMO different than "Hey sweetie! How's it going? What are you up to? "
-Any request of any type that is made is a request for some kind of control. Sometimes that request is granted and sometime it isn't. But anyone making a request needs to acknowledge that when making that request it's an attempt to have control. It's not about it being good or bad. It's understanding that by making it you DID insert an attempt to control things.
I just disagree and that’s fine. I don’t think saying “things make me uncomfortable please consider not doing it” is an attempt to have control. I believe it’s being upfront about what you’re okay within a relationship and what you’re not okay with. But again we don’t have to see eye to eye on that.
It's a request that is made in an effort to please her. It's the very definition of control! She asked to influence his behavior! Whether or not they are aligned is not the point.
If I went to a restaurant and said, "I'd like no bread with my dish and could you please put the butter on the side?" that is both a request and an attempt at control. IMO neither are bad. And frankly if she said, "I really have major issues with strippers for following reasons and it would make me feel both upset and disrespected if you had them," is both a reasonable request and is an attempt to control.
Maybe it's that control often appears to be a negative? IMO it isn't always negative.
I meant to come back to this part earlier; I think I’m bumping on the use of control (rather than say influence, which I totally agree a request is attempting to influence what happens) so much is that it implies the other party has little power or authority to resist. So when we say she’s trying to control the party to me it sounds like we’re saying she’s trying to force him into a behavior that he has no say in. And I don’t think thats the case.
Maybe its semantics; I agree trying to influence what someone else does isn’t always right or always wrong, but I think the presumed lack of authority when we’re talking about control is what bugs me about calling her request controlling.
Hiring a stripper is not like hiring a clown for your child's birthday party. Strippers are used, degraded, and very frequently, trafficked. The myth of the college student stripping her way through college is just that, a myth. (Does anyone really think a girl can work those hours, then get up and go to class?) This is not a lifestyle choice. It is an absolutely shitty job that people fall into and have a very difficult time getting out of.
Asking your fiance to act like a decent human being and not exploit a person is hardly controlling behavior. It is basic decency. Any guy who hires a stripper for fun is either really ignorant about the way these women live or a complete asshole. If you think the big problem is that the OP tried to "control" her fiance's bachelor party, you need to look at the statistics on strippers and other sex workers.
That's why I called this a serious problem and why I suggested counseling for this couple.
Umm...didn't strip, but I waitressed and did a bit of bartending in college, bars close at 4am by me...yes a 19-yr-old can definitely work through the night and get up and not miss a class and pull straight A's. A-hole is unecessary too. The concern for sex workers feels disingenuous. Why on earth is your post judgier than the OP's?!
OP, I ditto the counseling recommendation. Not trusting my H would border on dealbreaker for me. The lying about it for a year would bother me the most, followed by the not telling you if the cat hadn't been let out of the bag.
I think the punishment/consequences debate is tricky. On one hand "punishment" isn't a word two consenting, equal adults should be using towards each other but on the other hand, actions have consequences. If my H lied to me about something bc he knew I wouldn't like it and I found out a year later, yeah, there'd be a consequence. I'd be hurt and wouldn't trust him.
@maine7mob, I think you often miss the point and I think this is true again. You are conflating multiple issues here.
>>>I see the point, but don't agree with the consensus on a few issues. That's the idea of asking the internet, to get multiple perspectives. There's sometimes a "let's all dress alike" sorority vibe here that isn't always helpful. For genuine etiquette rules, such as "no cash bar," it is, but in this case, it really isn't. A poster came with a legitimate concern, and some people tried to minimize it. That solves nothing.
For starters, this is in the past. It's done and the bachelor party was months ago.
>>>Do you really believe that a past wrong just goes away? Obviously, the person who posted this is still hurt and needs a resolution. The only way past a wrong is reconciliation and forgiveness, not dismissal. In the case of the OP, this is where counseling could help.
Second, your own political feelings on this are still not part of the discussion.
>>>Exploiting people isn't political. It's moral. It's okay that you think differently, but this isn't about politics.
The OP made a request about what the bachelor party would involve. You can throw the "control" in caps as if it makes you roll your eyes but it doesn't change what that request was. I don't know that one person here has said that in all of this thread there's any one issue. There are many issues here and the OP's request and attempt to control her spouse is simply one of them.
And I'm going to say that you jumping to the conclusion that any man who has hired a stripper is an asshole says way more about your closed mindedness than it does about the OP. It means that it's incredibly difficult for you to give her unbiased advice.
>>>You're right. I am absolutely close-minded when it comes to abusing women. I've worked with women trying to get out of this industry, and there is no way to rationalize this.
Also, as a spouse of someone who is a wonderful man who has legally paid for strippers a handful of times I'll kindly ask you to not call my husband an asshole. You think that if any husband has hired a stripper then he and his wife need counseling simply based on what he legally did? Yeah NO.
@eileenrob, waiting tables and bartending are a far cry from stripping and being exploited. Many, many people do the former (including myself), but 85% of sex workers were abused as children by a friend or family member. It really is a different ballgame.
I know that so-called "gentlemen's clubs", are a cultural thing but if people knew what really went on, it might change their minds. Or not. In any case, yes, I will speak out against the people who exploit women this way.
But I will never say a word against the women. I have nothing but compassion for those in this situation.
If you've ever had the chance to discuss the adult exotic dancing industry with those who chose/choose to work in it, it's a business, and like any business, it's important that people remember these are adults making a choice to be in that industry and their boundaries for what they will/will not do. Trafficking is its own issue and NOT representative along with why there are safeguards in place in many states to cut down on it to the extent possible. Stop hating on people because they're adults choosing a career path even if it is one you would never in a million years choose for yourself. Correlation does not equal causation when it comes to previous abusive experiences. The stat in general for women is far too high!
@charlotte989875, not hiring sex workers won't change the way they are treated by those who do, but it will guarantee that you aren't complicit in it.
But stopping the judgement, shame, & shadow economy will change the way people are treated. At an individual level if you don’t participate then yes you are not involved. But what that does not mean you are actually doing anything to change the industry at all. And really it pushes things farther underground when we shame and attempt to remove the legal avenues for sex work.
@maine7mob, I think you often miss the point and I think this is true again. You are conflating multiple issues here.
>>>I see the point, but don't agree with the consensus on a few issues. That's the idea of asking the internet, to get multiple perspectives. There's sometimes a "let's all dress alike" sorority vibe here that isn't always helpful. For genuine etiquette rules, such as "no cash bar," it is, but in this case, it really isn't. A poster came with a legitimate concern, and some people tried to minimize it. That solves nothing.
For starters, this is in the past. It's done and the bachelor party was months ago.
>>>Do you really believe that a past wrong just goes away? Obviously, the person who posted this is still hurt and needs a resolution. The only way past a wrong is reconciliation and forgiveness, not dismissal. In the case of the OP, this is where counseling could help.
Second, your own political feelings on this are still not part of the discussion.
>>>Exploiting people isn't political. It's moral. It's okay that you think differently, but this isn't about politics.
The OP made a request about what the bachelor party would involve. You can throw the "control" in caps as if it makes you roll your eyes but it doesn't change what that request was. I don't know that one person here has said that in all of this thread there's any one issue. There are many issues here and the OP's request and attempt to control her spouse is simply one of them.
And I'm going to say that you jumping to the conclusion that any man who has hired a stripper is an asshole says way more about your closed mindedness than it does about the OP. It means that it's incredibly difficult for you to give her unbiased advice.
>>>You're right. I am absolutely close-minded when it comes to abusing women. I've worked with women trying to get out of this industry, and there is no way to rationalize this.
Also, as a spouse of someone who is a wonderful man who has legally paid for strippers a handful of times I'll kindly ask you to not call my husband an asshole. You think that if any husband has hired a stripper then he and his wife need counseling simply based on what he legally did? Yeah NO.
>>>Yes, this is the rub, I suspect.
Am I reading correctly then that in your opinion then, any woman working in this industry needs your unending sympathy, any man who ever hired a stripper is an asshole and you work with women who have been victimized which makes you our resident expert?
And because of your unending expertise in this industry you think that the OP needs to seek marriage counseling so she can continue to be married....to an asshole?
@eileenrob, waiting tables and bartending are a far cry from stripping and being exploited. Many, many people do the former (including myself), but 85% of sex workers were abused as children by a friend or family member. It really is a different ballgame.
I know that so-called "gentlemen's clubs", are a cultural thing but if people knew what really went on, it might change their minds. Or not. In any case, yes, I will speak out against the people who exploit women this way.
But I will never say a word against the women. I have nothing but compassion for those in this situation.
Just curious - do you know any sex workers? Because I do. And they certainly don't feel exploited or share your feelings.
@maine7mob I don't think that waitresses and strippers are the same. I bolded one sentence of yours where you say strippers stripping to pay college tuition is a myth, because who could work late hours and get up and go to class. I have two friends (one of whom then introduced me to a handful of her coworkers that i would describe as acquaintances) that danced at strip clubs back in the day. They chose to do their job, enjoyed it, and probably wouldn't want your sympathy.
1. He touched her boobs 2. He spanked her twice 3. His phone was the one to contact her. 4. She wrote her name on his chest in permanent marker.
Information confessed by DH.
To me, this now rises to the level of infidelity...no?
To me? No it doesn't.
But not being unfaithful does not equal that he was within the bounds of your trust.
You keep coming back here with additional information as if it's ammunition in some way.
What are you hoping to get out of this? Do you want to continue being married to this man? What do you want him to do? And what do you see in your future?
Have you seen a therapist just for you?
One thing I can guarantee: Even if your H vows that this will never happen again if you two are unable to work TOGETHER to put this issue as an incident in the past and put your marriage first your marriage will not work.
1. He touched her boobs 2. He spanked her twice 3. His phone was the one to contact her. 4. She wrote her name on his chest in permanent marker.
Information confessed by DH.
To me, this now rises to the level of infidelity...no?
I don’t think this is infidelity but it doesn’t matter what I think. It only matters that you feel betrayed. You don’t need an arbitrary metric to feel upset or ‘votes’ from external people if your reaction is valid. He lied to you, covered it up, and continued to lie after confronted. Only you can decide what to do with that information. The lying is the only thing I think is a massive betrayal here. I don’t think he cheated on you with the stripper by touching her boobs and spanking her at a stag do.
Have you gone to therapy together? Have you made progress there?
1. He touched her boobs 2. He spanked her twice 3. His phone was the one to contact her. 4. She wrote her name on his chest in permanent marker.
Information confessed by DH.
To me, this now rises to the level of infidelity...no?
To me? No it doesn't.
But not being unfaithful does not equal that he was within the bounds of your trust.
You keep coming back here with additional information as if it's ammunition in some way.
What are you hoping to get out of this? Do you want to continue being married to this man? What do you want him to do? And what do you see in your future?
Have you seen a therapist just for you?
One thing I can guarantee: Even if your H vows that this will never happen again if you two are unable to work TOGETHER to put this issue as an incident in the past and put your marriage first your marriage will not work.
This. What are you hoping happens here? What are you wanting us to say? Are you wanting us to give you permission to divorce him? Are you wanting therapy suggestions? You don't seem to want to put this behind you.
1. He touched her boobs 2. He spanked her twice 3. His phone was the one to contact her. 4. She wrote her name on his chest in permanent marker.
Information confessed by DH.
To me, this now rises to the level of infidelity...no?
So now what?
It doesn't change any of the advice you've received. You are still looking to mete out punishment. You are stroking this issue out. If you want to end your marriage over this, go ahead, you have the absolute right to end your marriage at any point in any time, no reason necessary (depending on your state). But if it's validation you're looking for, I don't think you're going to find a clear stamp here.
This is you:
So still...go to couples counseling. Figure out the dynamics that are at play here. Figure out yourself in this matter. Or go to a divorce attorney. And the way you're playing this out, you're backing yourself into an either/or situation.
There is not one definition of infidelity; do you feel like he cheated? If the roles were reversed would he think you cheated? Each couple determines what is in, and out, of bounds in their relationship.
That said; he lied. He’s continued to lie. Maybe this is the last of it but maybe not. How do you feel about that and what do you want the end result of this whole thing to be?
How do you forgive something like this? How do you move forward? What does moving forward look like? How do you move forward and not look like an idiot?
Re: Hubby lied about stripper @ Bach party
It's fine if you're personally uncomfortable with strippers, but please don't lump huge demographic groups into that as if Southerners/Catholics are some "special groups of people" where strippers are especially frowned upon. Now, the Catholic religion themselves...or any other Christian denomination or Judaism or Islam...will frown upon strippers. But if you go into a strip club on any Fri./Sat. night, I guarantee there are going to be PLENTY of people there who are going to be members of those faiths.
And, although I wasn't raised in the South, I've lived here for over 20 years. People aren't any more/less bothered by strippers than anywhere else I've lived or impression I have.
I just don’t feel like losing my trust really does anything in this situation. It still forces life to go on except with more in depth discussions and a feeling of me constantly questioning what the truth is.
There isn't really a right or wrong answer as long as you both mutually agree to it. The important part is to know that you're both adults here. So he can't be punished and the consequences aren't things that you can dole out as the person who decides how he has to pay for betraying you. This is far more nuanced because you're supposed to be equals here.
You also hit the nail on the head: You are questioning what the truth is. He doesn't have your trust. So in counseling you need to figure out how that gets to be earned again.
@MyNameIsNot - Your language here is perfect. I tried over and over again to say this and couldn't phrase it correctly. Why I shouldn't be knotting past my bedtime!
Bottom line: Ditto all this!
I do think you were trying to control his bachelor party, even by making the request. I also think calling him or texting him twice a day while he's on a guy's trip is a bit much. Just my $0.02.
I think your best bet in couples counseling. And I also agree that you thinking he need to be punished is weird.
OP - he's not a child, have the talk that you're PO'd about the lie that was maintained and that that type of stuff ends today and forever. Both of you will do things that the other will get PO'd about temporarily in life, communication is where the fallout typically is and you two need to set up your "rules of engagement" for those types of things. The question is, if he had come home and said "What a weekend - the guys without my knowing in advance brought in a stripper and I realized I hate (anything you like to do to help get both of you in the mood) and never want that in life..." or "Had an awesome weekend, the guys brought in a stripper too.." If you wouldn't have gotten married because there was a stripper at the Bach party as a life dealbreaker, that's one thing. It's another to realize he wasn't in northern Nevada, and strippers - meh - disappointed but life goes on - what's the flavor of the day at the ice cream shop?
The only thing to be disappointed about is the lie and that they didn't invite you along for that part of the show so you could have a lap dance too, and you two need to learn to communicate better. There's a balance of trusting your husband and not accepting being lied to. There is enough to go around on this dynamic that should have been worked through during premarital counseling, but wasn't. It's time to open up that channel of communication between you so that there isn't anything like this in the future AND then it's time to let what happened at his bachelor party go. Something to recognize is that if a stripper knows the person is being dragged up there by his/her buddies, they know how to put on the show to get the buddies to leave the Bach alone without making the recipient get PO'd or turn into a buzzkill or being totally uncomfortable. Stop reading more into the party than there was. It's not the event, it's the coverup.
It seems like you're mad and want to punish him about strippers and lying. And I'm unsure of being mad about strippers. I understand why people get uncomfortable about strippers, but you are also mad that he was at parties not his own, with strippers. I keep shying away from it, but it does feel like he lied b/c there's an issue with strippers beyond "simple disappointment" and he wanted to avoid it. I feel like there's some sort of judgment about strippers and people who associate with strippers as a hang up here and this is muddying the waters.
How has this come up before and what happened?
Asking your fiance to act like a decent human being and not exploit a person is hardly controlling behavior. It is basic decency. Any guy who hires a stripper for fun is either really ignorant about the way these women live or a complete asshole. If you think the big problem is that the OP tried to "control" her fiance's bachelor party, you need to look at the statistics on strippers and other sex workers.
That's why I called this a serious problem and why I suggested counseling for this couple.
For starters, this is in the past. It's done and the bachelor party was months ago.
Second, your own political feelings on this are still not part of the discussion.
The OP made a request about what the bachelor party would involve. You can throw the "control" in caps as if it makes you roll your eyes but it doesn't change what that request was. I don't know that one person here has said that in all of this thread there's any one issue. There are many issues here and the OP's request and attempt to control her spouse is simply one of them.
And I'm going to say that you jumping to the conclusion that any man who has hired a stripper is an asshole says way more about your closed mindedness than it does about the OP. It means that it's incredibly difficult for you to give her unbiased advice.
Also, as a spouse of someone who is a wonderful man who has legally paid for strippers a handful of times I'll kindly ask you to not call my husband an asshole. You think that if any husband has hired a stripper then he and his wife need counseling simply based on what he legally did? Yeah NO.
What changes how sex workers are treated? Legalization, regulation, worker protections (including wage protections, health care, unionization). What doesn’t change the treatment of sex workers? Further shame and hiding. Boycott whatever behavior you want to, but simply saying to not hire sex workers and will change the industry is naive.
Maybe its semantics; I agree trying to influence what someone else does isn’t always right or always wrong, but I think the presumed lack of authority when we’re talking about control is what bugs me about calling her request controlling.
OP, I ditto the counseling recommendation. Not trusting my H would border on dealbreaker for me. The lying about it for a year would bother me the most, followed by the not telling you if the cat hadn't been let out of the bag.
I think the punishment/consequences debate is tricky. On one hand "punishment" isn't a word two consenting, equal adults should be using towards each other but on the other hand, actions have consequences. If my H lied to me about something bc he knew I wouldn't like it and I found out a year later, yeah, there'd be a consequence. I'd be hurt and wouldn't trust him.
I know that so-called "gentlemen's clubs", are a cultural thing but if people knew what really went on, it might change their minds. Or not. In any case, yes, I will speak out against the people who exploit women this way.
But I will never say a word against the women. I have nothing but compassion for those in this situation.
Am I reading correctly then that in your opinion then, any woman working in this industry needs your unending sympathy, any man who ever hired a stripper is an asshole and you work with women who have been victimized which makes you our resident expert?
And because of your unending expertise in this industry you think that the OP needs to seek marriage counseling so she can continue to be married....to an asshole?
I have two friends (one of whom then introduced me to a handful of her coworkers that i would describe as acquaintances) that danced at strip clubs back in the day. They chose to do their job, enjoyed it, and probably wouldn't want your sympathy.
1. He touched her boobs
2. He spanked her twice
3. His phone was the one to contact her.
4. She wrote her name on his chest in permanent marker.
Information confessed by DH.
To me, this now rises to the level of infidelity...no?
To me? No it doesn't.
But not being unfaithful does not equal that he was within the bounds of your trust.
You keep coming back here with additional information as if it's ammunition in some way.
What are you hoping to get out of this? Do you want to continue being married to this man? What do you want him to do? And what do you see in your future?
Have you seen a therapist just for you?
One thing I can guarantee: Even if your H vows that this will never happen again if you two are unable to work TOGETHER to put this issue as an incident in the past and put your marriage first your marriage will not work.
Have you gone to therapy together? Have you made progress there?
It doesn't change any of the advice you've received. You are still looking to mete out punishment. You are stroking this issue out. If you want to end your marriage over this, go ahead, you have the absolute right to end your marriage at any point in any time, no reason necessary (depending on your state). But if it's validation you're looking for, I don't think you're going to find a clear stamp here.
This is you:
So still...go to couples counseling. Figure out the dynamics that are at play here. Figure out yourself in this matter. Or go to a divorce attorney. And the way you're playing this out, you're backing yourself into an either/or situation.
That said; he lied. He’s continued to lie. Maybe this is the last of it but maybe not. How do you feel about that and what do you want the end result of this whole thing to be?
I don’t think I’m the problem at this point.