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Destination Wedding Etiquette

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Re: Destination Wedding Etiquette

  • ashleyepashleyep member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Name Dropper First Anniversary
    edited January 2014
    mobkaz said:
    ashleyep said:
    I agree with @jells2dot0 and have been watching it too. I want to know, what about the people who marry in a courthouse/elope? I feel like she's really degrading those. My uncle eloped, and when we all found out he got married, my dad instantly want to throw him a party in honor of their marriage. While it was all just another reason for the family to get together and celebrate, I think this is okay in the etiquette book.  (Please tell me if it wasn't. My uncle had no intention of having a get together.)
    No, there's nothing wrong with having a big party to celebrate your wedding after the fact. It's the farce of a ceremony that most people take offense with.

    One of my FI's good friends all of a sudden ended up married a few weeks ago - we didn't even know he was engaged! When FI texted him, the guy told him "well yeah we just went to the court house, but we'll have a ceremony later." Even my fiance understands what's wrong with that. I'll go, and I'll bite my tongue, and I'll probably even tell them what a lovely ceremony it is. I would NEVER tell them what I really thought about it, but we'll be judging them for it, hard. 

    But if they had just decided to have a big party to celebrate - basically the reception minus the sham of a ceremony - we'd be thrilled for them. And at least they're being up front about it. They're fb says "married."
    This is how the cycle of indulgent and rude ideas continue.  The people with manners take the high road and keep quiet about the incredibly bad choices couples make.  This validates their POV that "no one cared because no one said anything".  I'm not faulting/criticizing you personally, ashleyep.  This madness really sickens me.
    Part of etiquette is being a gracious guest in addition to being a good host. I don't think it's my place to tell them what they're doing is wrong. Especially since it's not my friend, it's my fiance's. We want to celebrate with them, they're his friends, so we're not going to decline because it's a PPD. But I'm glad that they're at least being up front about it.


    Anniversary
    AroundTheBlockPrettyGirlLostKeptInStitches
  • I'm not trying to be a statistics guru on here. I'm just trying to point out that the majority of people on here do not support your decision and that the people on here represent a wide variety of backgrounds and views.
    I'm not asking you to be a statistics guru. I'm asking you to realize the same 12-15 women drinking their daily dose of Haterade is a far cry from representative of the majority of society. 
    AroundTheBlock
  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost A Land Filled with Unicorns and Cat Hair member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    I'm not trying to be a statistics guru on here. I'm just trying to point out that the majority of people on here do not support your decision and that the people on here represent a wide variety of backgrounds and views.
    I'm not asking you to be a statistics guru. I'm asking you to realize the same 12-15 women drinking their daily dose of Haterade is a far cry from representative of the majority of society. 
    Puhlease.  I only drink 18+ year old scotch on the rocks.
    http://24.media.tumblr.com/fc18989ae822867d00db519c2b9340a4/tumblr_ms5bg2VVxh1seecqoo7_500.gif

    I know she has a martini glass, but just go with it!


    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


    KeptInStitchesMaggie0829AshleyNicole1218
  • MobKazMobKaz Chicago suburbs member
    Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    ashleyep said:
    mobkaz said:
    ashleyep said:
    I agree with @jells2dot0 and have been watching it too. I want to know, what about the people who marry in a courthouse/elope? I feel like she's really degrading those. My uncle eloped, and when we all found out he got married, my dad instantly want to throw him a party in honor of their marriage. While it was all just another reason for the family to get together and celebrate, I think this is okay in the etiquette book.  (Please tell me if it wasn't. My uncle had no intention of having a get together.)
    No, there's nothing wrong with having a big party to celebrate your wedding after the fact. It's the farce of a ceremony that most people take offense with.

    One of my FI's good friends all of a sudden ended up married a few weeks ago - we didn't even know he was engaged! When FI texted him, the guy told him "well yeah we just went to the court house, but we'll have a ceremony later." Even my fiance understands what's wrong with that. I'll go, and I'll bite my tongue, and I'll probably even tell them what a lovely ceremony it is. I would NEVER tell them what I really thought about it, but we'll be judging them for it, hard. 

    But if they had just decided to have a big party to celebrate - basically the reception minus the sham of a ceremony - we'd be thrilled for them. And at least they're being up front about it. They're fb says "married."
    This is how the cycle of indulgent and rude ideas continue.  The people with manners take the high road and keep quiet about the incredibly bad choices couples make.  This validates their POV that "no one cared because no one said anything".  I'm not faulting/criticizing you personally, ashleyep.  This madness really sickens me.
    Part of etiquette is being a gracious guest in addition to being a good host. I don't think it's my place to tell them what they're doing is wrong. Especially since it's not my friend, it's my fiance's. We want to celebrate with them, they're his friends, so we're not going to decline because it's a PPD. But I'm glad that they're at least being up front about it.


    I absolutely agree.  That is the frustrating part of the cycle.  The rude are justified in their minds by the well mannered guests to whom they are being rude.  I apologize if my point was not clear. Posters on these boards try to emphasize this point to those being rude to their guests.  How often has a poster said, "We are telling you that what you propose is rude/tacky/poor manners because your friends are too polite to say it to you."  Sadly, the "offending" poster replies with, "Oh, no.  Not MY friends.  They love everything I do and say."

    And although I abhor the PPD, there will always be more respect for those who are upfront about it.  
    ashleyepPrettyGirlLostKeptInStitches
  • TerriHuggTerriHugg member
    Fifth Anniversary 500 Comments 100 Love Its First Answer
    edited January 2014
    I know I will be attacked for this, like so many other people have been on the board for having this opinion, but I don't consider what you all call a PPD as rude. I know it's against etiquette but I don't think it undermines the sanctity of courthouse weddings at all. If you consider your courthouse wedding special, why would someone getting married by a JOP and then having another ceremony after that undermine what you consider the day you got married less important or diminish it's importance?It was important to you and that's all that should matter then regardless of what another couple does. 

    That's besides the point though. The reason why I don't take issue with having what you call a PPD or fake ceremony is because a successful marriage takes more than the signing of a very important legal document that entitles you to very important legal benefits. (And no, I don't take that for granted. I am very fortunate to have the legal benefits associated with marriage.) A successful marriage takes the commitment to your spouse and a commitment to being committed to marriage. (I think most people can agree on that part at least.)  Yes, you can do both of those at the same time as the legal commitment. However, if someone chooses to have another ceremony with their family as spectators I feel like they are just saving the other important part of a successful marriage to be shared with their loved ones which in my mind doesn't make it any less real than the first ceremony. They just chose to satisfy the legal commitment and the commitment to the commitment in a different way than other people. 

    Again I understand that this is against etiquette and no I did not choose this route when I got married. However, I won't judge or be upset or offended if someone decided to signify their marriage in this way. I really don't think how someone chose to make their union official is my business even if it does involve me spending money to travel to attend. 
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  • MobKazMobKaz Chicago suburbs member
    Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    edited January 2014
    TerriHugg said:
    I know I will be attacked for this, like so many other people have been on the board for having this opinion, but I don't consider what you all call a PPD as rude. I know it's against etiquette but I don't think it undermines the sanctity of courthouse weddings at all. If you consider your courthouse wedding special, why would someone getting married by a JOP and then having another ceremony after that undermine what you consider the day you got married less important or diminish it's importance?

    That's besides the point though. The reason why I don't take issue with having what you call a PPD or fake ceremony is because a successful marriage takes more than the signing of a very important legal document that entitles you to very important legal benefits. (And no, I don't take that for granted. I am very fortunate to have the legal benefits associated with marriage.) A successful marriage takes the commitment to your spouse and a commitment to being committed to marriage. (I think most people can agree on that part at least.)  Yes, you can do both of those at the same time as the legal commitment. However, if someone chooses to have another ceremony with their family as spectators I feel like they are just saving the other important of a successful marriage to be shared with their loved ones which in my mind doesn't make it any less real than the first ceremony. They just chose to satisfy the legal commitment and the commitment to the commitment in a different way than other people. 

    Again I understand that this is against etiquette and no I did not choose this route when I got married. However, I won't judge or be upset of offended if someone decided to signify their marriage in this way. I really don't think how someone choose to make their union official is my business even if it does involve me spending money to travel to attend. 


    Do you appreciate being lied to?  Do you think successful friendships and family relationships should be based on lies?  I will never understand the necessity of a PPD, but it is absolutely unacceptable to lie to your supposed nearest and dearest, regardless of your own perceived and twisted justification.  Many wives of PPD's go out of their way to lie about the fact that they are already married.  I take offense to that, big time.
    TerriHuggKeptInStitchesRebeccaB88
  • TerriHuggTerriHugg member
    Fifth Anniversary 500 Comments 100 Love Its First Answer
    edited January 2014
    @mobkaz

    I can understand why you would be offended by that and why you would consider that lying. However, I don't see that as a lie. I've acknowledged what etiquette dictates already. All I'm saying is I can understand why some people feel otherwise. I've mentioned on here several times before that I've attend a ceremony in the past and later found out that they had fulfilled legal requirements previously and I did not feel upset, lied to or offended. Nor did I ask why they chose to go that route or expect an explanation because I don't think that part is any of my business. 

    One of the reasons, why I don't feel like it is lie is because many people define marriage in several ways. Some people choose to define it by solely signing those very important legal documents and other define marriage has having those legal documents present as well as the commitment to each other and marriage. (And no, I don't need anyone coming here giving me definitions of marriage and that you if you file for divorce it will say whatever the legal documents, say etc. I already know and understand all of that.)  If someone considers the later to be their view of marriage, than I won't fault them for it. It's not my business. I will attend the ceremony and support the couple the same way. 

    For example in my culture, (and I'm not disclosing what culture that is because I know someone is going to come here and want to plead otherwise pretending to know everything about said culture and how they can't relate to it) it doesn't  matter what the state or government says because you aren't married until you make that commitment in front of family and/or God.

    Once again, I can understand why others feel it is offensive, rude, etc. However, I just don't see it that way. And yes I understand that couples need to take caution if planning something like this because there are some people who may be offended such as yourself.  I'm just not one of those people. I don't feel the need to judge or be mad because of their choice regarding their marriage or wedding.

    And to answer questions, I don't think successful friendships and family relationships should be based on lies. However, I don't necessarily consider what you call a PPD or fake wedding a lie because I don't see that ceremony as fake. But I understand why you could view it as such and be offended. 

    Though we clearly don't see eye to eye, I truly appreciate you sharing your feelings. It's part of what makes a great dialogue and discussion.  
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  • edited January 2014
    TerriHugg said:
    I know I will be attacked for this, like so many other people have been on the board for having this opinion, but I don't consider what you all call a PPD as rude. I know it's against etiquette but I don't think it undermines the sanctity of courthouse weddings at all. If you consider your courthouse wedding special, why would someone getting married by a JOP and then having another ceremony after that undermine what you consider the day you got married less important or diminish it's importance?

    That's besides the point though. The reason why I don't take issue with having what you call a PPD or fake ceremony is because a successful marriage takes more than the signing of a very important legal document that entitles you to very important legal benefits. (And no, I don't take that for granted. I am very fortunate to have the legal benefits associated with marriage.) A successful marriage takes the commitment to your spouse and a commitment to being committed to marriage. (I think most people can agree on that part at least.)  Yes, you can do both of those at the same time as the legal commitment. However, if someone chooses to have another ceremony with their family as spectators I feel like they are just saving the other important of a successful marriage to be shared with their loved ones which in my mind doesn't make it any less real than the first ceremony. They just chose to satisfy the legal commitment and the commitment to the commitment in a different way than other people. 

    Again I understand that this is against etiquette and no I did not choose this route when I got married. However, I won't judge or be upset of offended if someone decided to signify their marriage in this way. I really don't think how someone choose to make their union official is my business even if it does involve me spending money to travel to attend. 
    Blue: Because those who went about it the second way did so all while saying their JOP wedding isn't a "real wedding." Brides come here saying "We got married at a courthouse for xyz reason (baby, benefits, health insurance, whatever else), so now we're throwing the real wedding!" That school of thought undermines JOP weddings because it makes it seems as if every couple married at a courthouse did not have a real wedding, when that wedding was the one and only ceremony they had and not only was it 100% REAL, but it was meaningful for them. A wedding does not need flowers, a gown, attendants, etc. in order to be real and legit. 

    Red: A successful marriage also does NOT require flowers, a gown, attendants, etc. in order to be real and legitimate. Once you sign the paper, you ARE married (minus the religious aspect). There is no reason why a couple can't wait until they are able to throw the whooooole she-bang exactly how they want and do everything all at once. It isn't necessary to legitimize their marriage at one time, and then throw the big to-do at a later date. None. Zero. Wait to have the wedding you can afford. 

    Edited because the quote box is stupid
    TerriHugg
  • TerriHuggTerriHugg member
    Fifth Anniversary 500 Comments 100 Love Its First Answer
    edited January 2014
    Hi @jellybean5215

    I understand that you feel very strongly about this and for good reason. However, I'm feeling attacked. All I did was offer my opinion all while acknowledging why someone such as yourself would feel and has a right to feel differently. I'm just not one of those people. 

    Believe it or not, I do agree to some of things you posted above. For example, I agree that a marriage does not require a gown, attendants, etc. However, I did not say that in my post. I referenced a second ceremony (i.e. no mention of gowns, or flowers.)  Therefore, I don't know why you felt the need to go on about flowers, etc. I made no mention of that whatsoever. 

    Secondly, I like you despise the term  "real wedding" and don't really like it when any couple refers it to in such a manner. That is why I have referenced it as a second ceremony throughout my entire post. 

    However, I will say hypothetically that if I got married at the JOP and someone said to me "we are having a real wedding because our JOP wedding wasn't real," I would in no way feel like that "undermines the importance of MY wedding because MY JOP wedding would have been special and meaningful to me regardless of someone else's thoughts about it even if that particular couple felt otherwise. That's why I made the statement you highlighted in my original post. This bit is unnecessary, but if you feel as though your JOP wedding ceremony is so easily undermined by someone else's opinion, it says a lot more about you and your relationship than you are willing to admit.
     I do agree, however, that someone referencing it that way is very insensitive and should be avoided if at all possible. 

    And for the record, like I've mentioned several times on this board I do acknowledge and understand why having a second ceremony following a legal ceremony is against etiquette. You do not need to sway me on that. We are in agreement 200% on that part. I've been here long enough to know why people despise, take offense it and simply won't tolerate it. I just wanted to offer a slightly different view of it all. All I'm saying is that I am not offended by it and why I personally don't see it as rude. 

    Regardless, thank you for sharing your thoughts on the subject. 

    Note: Sorry about the font. It someone got screwed up midway while typing.

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  • @Terri Hugg you're a better person than me, because if i had gotten married at the JOP and then had a friend say to me "yeah we got married at the courthouse a few months ago, but now we're going to have our REAL wedding" if would definitely make me feel like my friend thought that my own wedding wasn't good enough, and wasn't "real."

     

    FWIW, i agree that while it is definitely against etiquette, if a bride wants to do a second ceremony for show, so be it.  however, it is absolutely unacceptable for that bride (and groom) to lie to their guests about what the second ceremony really is.  By claiming to not be married already, they are lying to their guests.  As a guest, i wouldn't want to be lied to. 

     

    if a close friend got married at the JOP and then had a second ceremony/reception, and was upfront about that fact that she was already legally married, i'd probably still go.  My issue is that most brides come on here and are of the opinion that "what they don't know can't hurt them" and willingly hide the fact that they are already married.  whether or not those brides "feel like" they're already married, the fact is that under the law THEY ARE MARRIED.  If they weren't married, they wouldn't be receiving whatever benefit they went down to the JOP to qualify for.  As long as they're upfront about it, i wouldn't be too upset (though i would probably still side-eye them a bit...and i would absolutely take offense to any mention of "the REAL wedding" versus the actual wedding, which was at the JOP).

    PrettyGirlLostKeptInStitches
  • Jells2dot0Jells2dot0 Cowtown mod
    Moderator Ninth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
    edited January 2014
     
    TerriHugg said:
    Hi @jellybean5215

    I understand that you feel very strongly about this and for good reason. However, I'm feeling attacked. All I did was offer my opinion all while acknowledging why someone such as yourself would feel and has a right to feel differently. I'm just not one of those people. 

    Believe it or not, I do agree to some of things you posted above. For example, I agree that a marriage does not require a gown, attendants, etc. However, I did not say that in my post. I referenced a second ceremony (i.e. no mention of gowns, or flowers.)  Therefore, I don't know why you felt the need to go on about flowers, etc. I made no mention of that whatsoever. 

    Secondly, I like you despise the term  "real wedding" and don't really like it when any couple refers it to in such a manner. That is why I have referenced it as a second ceremony throughout my entire post. 

    However, I will say hypothetically that if I got married at the JOP and someone said to me "we are having a real wedding because our JOP wedding wasn't real," I would in no way feel like that "undermines the importance of MY wedding because MY JOP wedding would have been special and meaningful to me regardless of someone else's thoughts about it even if that particular couple felt otherwise. That's why I made the statement you highlighted in my original post. This bit is unnecessary, but if you feel as though your JOP wedding ceremony is so easily undermined by someone else's opinion, it says a lot more about you and your relationship than you are willing to admit.
     I do agree, however, that someone referencing it that way is very insensitive and should be avoided if at all possible. 

    And for the record, like I've mentioned several times on this board I do acknowledge and understand why having a second ceremony following a legal ceremony is against etiquette. You do not need to sway me on that. We are in agreement 200% on that part. I've been here long enough to know why people despise, take offense it and simply won't tolerate it. I just wanted to offer a slightly different view of it all. All I'm saying is that I am not offended by it and why I personally don't see it as rude. 

    Regardless, thank you for sharing your thoughts on the subject. 

    Note: Sorry about the font. It someone got screwed up midway while typing.

    I totally understand what you're saying. I'm not personally offended, in most cases, when someone on here undermines smaller, simpler weddings. I'm confident in the wedding we chose because it's what we both wanted. I wouldn't do it over in any way possible. However, in general, I do think comments against JOP or simple weddings not being "real" are offensive. Hence, why I usually add in my opposition to these posts. The only time I was actually offended was in a post about a week ago where someone said my wedding was not a wedding because I eloped. I'm pretty sure I'm married and the ceremony I had was a wedding. It's just that noone in my family or circle of friends witnessed it. Then again, I got over it pretty quickly because it was just a generally ignorant statement.

    At this point, it's definitely all about the lying. There are too many brides on here that are being dishonest about the circumstances behind their marriage and the ceremony. I truly believe that this will come back to bite them in the future in some way, though, I hope it does not come to that.

    edit- darn format.

     







    PrettyGirlLost
  • mrs4everhartmrs4everhart member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary First Answer
    edited January 2014
    It seems really ridiculous to get buttsore about your own wedding/marriage over what someone else thinks of theirs. If I say, "wow, my wedding was AWESOME" do many of you ladies automatically compare and contrast and get upset if your's wasn't (in your opinion?) It should be no different if someone makes ANY statement about their own nuptials including that their's was disappointing (to them). Because they choose to actually DO something about it shouldn't give you all the right to start screaming "You don't get to!!! You don't deserve to!!! You're not entitled!!! It's rude!!!" Just sounds like sour grapes from so many of you. Too many people find stupid shit to take offense to in this world instead of just going with the flow and having fun. Good grief, if you hate free food, booze and dancing that much stay home and read passages from Miss Manners instead, sounds like a hoot! 

    And to those of you who keep repeating "but it's the lying that gets to me" - if you don't know you're being lied to, then you can't very well bitch about lies now can you? If you knew the couple's situation ahead of time most of you say you'd go and "side eye" it? Why? Why bother to go then? Save the hosts some money and spare them your bitter presence. And if you didn't know, then the only way you'll get to find something to be pissed off about is if you "find out" which is a long shot. 

    The next time different groups of people want to celebrate my birthday on separate occasions maybe I'll freak out and say NO! I only get ONE!!!!! If I celebrate with family at a restaurant one night, then friends at a bar another I may offend someone who only had a smaller, more intimate birthday party, therefore, I better not. Um, no.

    Edited: because proof-reading is my friend and I forgot about that.....
    MrsAitch
  • It seems really ridiculous to get buttsore about your own wedding/marriage over what someone else thinks of theirs. If I say, "wow, my wedding was AWESOME" do many of you ladies automatically compare and contrast and get upset if your's wasn't (in your opinion?) It should be no different if someone makes ANY statement about their own nuptials including that their's was disappointing (to them). Because they choose to actually DO something about it shouldn't give you all the right to start screaming "You don't get to!!! You don't deserve to!!! You're not entitled!!! It's rude!!!" Just sounds like sour grapes from so many of you. Too many people find stupid shit to take offense to in this world instead of just going with the flow and having fun. Good grief, if you hate free food, booze and dancing that much stay home and read passages from Miss Manners instead, sounds like a hoot! 

    And to those of you who keep repeating "but it's the lying that gets to me" - if you don't know you're being lied to, then you can't very well bitch about lies now can you? If you knew the couple's situation ahead of time most of you say you'd go and "side eye" it? Why? Why bother to go then? Save the hosts some money and spare them your bitter presence. And if you didn't know, then the only way you'll get to find something to be pissed off about is if you "find out" which is a long shot. 

    The next time different groups of people want to celebrate my birthday on separate occasions maybe I'll freak out and say NO! I only get ONE!!!!! If I celebrate with family at a restaurant one night, then friends at a bar another I may offend someone who only had a smaller, more intimate birthday party, therefore, I better not. Um, no.

    Edited: because proof-reading is my friend and I forgot about that.....

    THIS IS THE POINT.  If you don't understand that it is rude to lie to your friends and family, then obviously we are wasting our time trying to explain proper etiquette to you.  And yes, if the "long shot" did happen, and i found out that i had attended a friend's "wedding" that wasn't really a wedding because she was actually already married, and she had lied to me about it, i would have a very hard time respecting that person going forward.  I don't really like to be friends with people who lie to me, or friends with people who are purposely deceitful just because they want to have a big party.

     

    The offensive phrase is "REAL wedding."  If i got married at the JOP, and then my friends did the same thing but were still going on and on about ther "REAL wedding" that would be offensive.  I would be perfectly happy that i got the wedding that i wanted.  I would not be happy that people i presumably love don't think my wedding was "REAL" because i didn't have a ceremony with everyone i know present, or because i didn't have a giant blow out afterwards.  It would make me feel like those friends didn't consider me to be married because i made a different life choice than they did.  If you're set on doing this, call it your "big" wedding, or your "second" wedding, or your "reigious" wedding, or your "symbolic" wedding, or whatever...but don't call it your "real" wedding.  All the is required to make a wedding "real" is the paperwork.

     

    If multiple groups of your friends choose to host you several birthday parties, that is fine.  The difference here is that you host your own wedding.  You wouldn't think it was crazy for a grown adult to host multiple birthday parties for herself in the same year?  I would. I would think it was crazy for a grown adult to host her own birthday party period.

    KeptInStitchesJells2dot0ashleyep
  • Maggie0829Maggie0829 Ravens & Bohs & Crabs & O's member
    Eighth Anniversary 10000 Comments 500 Love Its 25 Answers
    I think it is the fact that you feel completely fine with lying to people who are your nearest and dearest in your life.  That is the most horrific part.  I don't give two shits about anything else at this point.  It really comes down to the fact that you and your Mother and your husband and whoever else is in on this secret is not even phased that you are lying to people.  Typically, from where I am from and how I was raised, we were told that lying is wrong and hurtful.  Apparently you weren't raised that way, which is sad.  It also makes me wonder what else you lie about on a daily basis and to who.

    Lying is wrong and hurtful whether it is in regards to this specific instance or elsewhere in your life. And that you don't get that is really unfortunate.

    Jells2dot0
  • MobKazMobKaz Chicago suburbs member
    Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    I think it is the fact that you feel completely fine with lying to people who are your nearest and dearest in your life.  That is the most horrific part.  I don't give two shits about anything else at this point.  It really comes down to the fact that you and your Mother and your husband and whoever else is in on this secret is not even phased that you are lying to people.  Typically, from where I am from and how I was raised, we were told that lying is wrong and hurtful.  Apparently you weren't raised that way, which is sad.  It also makes me wonder what else you lie about on a daily basis and to who.

    Lying is wrong and hurtful whether it is in regards to this specific instance or elsewhere in your life. And that you don't get that is really unfortunate.
    We are told that lying is wrong and hurtful because that is a FACT.  There is no dispute.  Lying destroys trust.  Relationships can neither thrive or survive without trust.  How can anyone not take offense at lying?  I suppose if you live with people comfortable with lying, and you uphold that legacy because it's the easiest thing to do, it would make sense to go with the flow.  It's all you know.  I prefer to put forth the effort to maintain integrity.  It might not be as easy a flow, but it's the legacy I prefer.
  • delujm0 said:
    It seems really ridiculous to get buttsore about your own wedding/marriage over what someone else thinks of theirs. If I say, "wow, my wedding was AWESOME" do many of you ladies automatically compare and contrast and get upset if your's wasn't (in your opinion?) It should be no different if someone makes ANY statement about their own nuptials including that their's was disappointing (to them). Because they choose to actually DO something about it shouldn't give you all the right to start screaming "You don't get to!!! You don't deserve to!!! You're not entitled!!! It's rude!!!" Just sounds like sour grapes from so many of you. Too many people find stupid shit to take offense to in this world instead of just going with the flow and having fun. Good grief, if you hate free food, booze and dancing that much stay home and read passages from Miss Manners instead, sounds like a hoot! 

    And to those of you who keep repeating "but it's the lying that gets to me" - if you don't know you're being lied to, then you can't very well bitch about lies now can you? If you knew the couple's situation ahead of time most of you say you'd go and "side eye" it? Why? Why bother to go then? Save the hosts some money and spare them your bitter presence. And if you didn't know, then the only way you'll get to find something to be pissed off about is if you "find out" which is a long shot. 

    The next time different groups of people want to celebrate my birthday on separate occasions maybe I'll freak out and say NO! I only get ONE!!!!! If I celebrate with family at a restaurant one night, then friends at a bar another I may offend someone who only had a smaller, more intimate birthday party, therefore, I better not. Um, no.

    Edited: because proof-reading is my friend and I forgot about that.....

    THIS IS THE POINT.  If you don't understand that it is rude to lie to your friends and family, then obviously we are wasting our time trying to explain proper etiquette to you.  And yes, if the "long shot" did happen, and i found out that i had attended a friend's "wedding" that wasn't really a wedding because she was actually already married, and she had lied to me about it, i would have a very hard time respecting that person going forward.  I don't really like to be friends with people who lie to me, or friends with people who are purposely deceitful just because they want to have a big party.

     

    The offensive phrase is "REAL wedding."  If i got married at the JOP, and then my friends did the same thing but were still going on and on about ther "REAL wedding" that would be offensive.  I would be perfectly happy that i got the wedding that i wanted.  I would not be happy that people i presumably love don't think my wedding was "REAL" because i didn't have a ceremony with everyone i know present, or because i didn't have a giant blow out afterwards.  It would make me feel like those friends didn't consider me to be married because i made a different life choice than they did.  If you're set on doing this, call it your "big" wedding, or your "second" wedding, or your "reigious" wedding, or your "symbolic" wedding, or whatever...but don't call it your "real" wedding.  All the is required to make a wedding "real" is the paperwork. Personally, I don't care one way or the other what language people use to describe their own unions. I bet there's lots of people who don't consider anything but church weddings "real." Take a guess how much I care. I bet I even have a friend or two who feels like that. They may even say it to me at some point. Guess how much I still won't care?! I'm not in a competition in life to see whose marriage is the "most legit." 

     

    If multiple groups of your friends choose to host you several birthday parties, that is fine.  The difference here is that you host your own wedding.  You wouldn't think it was crazy for a grown adult to host multiple birthday parties for herself in the same year?  I would. I would think it was crazy for a grown adult to host her own birthday party period. You know what's interesting about that? Hmm. You can't host your own birthday, engagement party or shower. But you can host your own wedding. Interesting. If I may be so bold, I imagine that is derivative of some sort of act of entitlement. (No one else will host it, but I want my dress and a big party, so damn it, I shall have one!!!!!!)


  • I think it is the fact that you feel completely fine with lying to people who are your nearest and dearest in your life.  That is the most horrific part.  I don't give two shits about anything else at this point.  It really comes down to the fact that you and your Mother and your husband and whoever else is in on this secret is not even phased that you are lying to people.  Typically, from where I am from and how I was raised, we were told that lying is wrong and hurtful.  Apparently you weren't raised that way, which is sad.  It also makes me wonder what else you lie about on a daily basis and to who. I can't speak to what morality lessons my FI was a party to as a kid, but for my parents and our friends who know, no one thinks it's lying. Just as we don't. My parents don't see any of this as a big deal, our best friends did the same thing in reverse (they signed when they got back from Mexico bc they ran out of time the week before they left dealing with a passport renewal issue) and my FI's Dad, well his disdain for the institution of marriage in general has us impressed he's even coming. Really, it's an excuse for him to go diving. 

    Lying is wrong and hurtful whether it is in regards to this specific instance or elsewhere in your life. And that you don't get that is really unfortunate.

  • From Dictionary.com

    ly·ing

    1 /ˈlaɪɪŋ/ Show Spelled [lahy-ing]  

    noun
    1.
    the telling of lies, or false statements; untruthfulness: From boyhood, he has never been good at lying. Synonyms: falsehood, falsity, mendacity, prevarication. Antonyms: truth, veracity.
    adjective
    2.
    telling or containing lies; deliberately untruthful; deceitful; false: a lying report. Synonyms: deceptive, misleading, mendacious, fallacious; sham, counterfeit.
     
    Whether YOU consider it lying or not is irrelevant. Just like etiquette, what is a lie is not a matter of opinion. You are inviting people to Mexico to witness you and your FI (DH) get married, which is when two legally become wed. Since you will not legally become wed in Mexico, they will not be witnessing you get married. Since you knowingly omitted this fact to them you are, in fact, being deceitful. What you ARE doing in Mexico is having a commitment ceremony. Why are you so against calling it that? Isn't that exactly what you are doing? Committing yourselves to one another in front of family and friends? So you're not legally becoming married...whatever....but let your guests decide what they want to do. You say most, if not all, won't care. So then just tell them!
     
    Guys, for real, let's end this debate with her now. She will never, ever, get it through her head that she's lying. It's getting old fast and making my head hurt.

    After 6 years and 2 boys, finally tying the knot on October 27th, 2013!

    Jells2dot0KeptInStitches
  • And to those of you who keep repeating "but it's the lying that gets to me" - if you don't know you're being lied to, then you can't very well bitch about lies now can you? 
    So tell us how you feel about cheating, stealing, running red lights, other crimes......... because, in your eyes, as long as nobody else knows, then nobody can be hurt by it, right?

    If you knew the couple's situation ahead of time most of you say you'd go and "side eye" it? Why? Why bother to go then? Save the hosts some money and spare them your bitter presence. 

    And EXACTLY: tell your guests the truth and let THEM decide if they're going to bear witness to a false ceremony
    Fran1985
  • acove2006 said:

    From Dictionary.com

    ly·ing

    1 /ˈlaɪɪŋ/ Show Spelled [lahy-ing]  

    noun
    1.
    the telling of lies, or false statements; untruthfulness: From boyhood, he has never been good at lying. Synonyms: falsehood, falsity, mendacity, prevarication. Antonyms: truth, veracity.
    adjective

    To the bold: the fact is, we're making no statements of any kind. Where we disagree is that you think a statement is owed, we do not. 

    2.
    telling or containing lies; deliberately untruthful; deceitful; false: a lying report. Synonyms: deceptive, misleading, mendacious, fallacious; sham, counterfeit.

    To the bold: we're deliberately leaving out what we consider irrelevant. It would be both misleading and a sham if no one actually ended up married. Both that's not the case. 

     
    Whether YOU consider it lying or not is irrelevant. It's very relevant from where I'm standing. It would appear we're the ones making the very decision about what is and is not relevant. Just like etiquette, what is a lie is not a matter of opinion. You are inviting people to Mexico to witness you and your FI (DH) get married, which is when two legally become wed. Since you will not legally become wed in Mexico, they will not be witnessing you get married. Since you knowingly omitted this fact to them you are, in fact, being deceitful. What you ARE doing in Mexico is having a commitment ceremony. Why are you so against calling it that? Potato/Potahto. We happen to like the sound of wedding, so we're sticking with it! Isn't that exactly what you are doing? Committing yourselves to one another in front of family and friends? So you're not legally becoming married...whatever....but let your guests decide what they want to do. You say most, if not all, won't care. So then just tell them!
     
    Guys, for real, let's end this debate with her now. There's never been a debate. There's nothing TO debate. Our plans were never open to changing. She will never, ever, get it through her head that she's lying. It's getting old fast and making my head hurt.

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