Mrs. or Ms. When Married Woman Keeps Maiden Name?

PrettyGirlLost

I'm making my address labels for my STD's.  FSIL married FI's brother, but kept her maiden name. . . is she Ms. FirstName MaidenName or Mrs. FirstName MaidenName?

Thanks!

Oh, You are all so mean and I feel sorry for your husbands.

Sars06

Ms. FirstName LastName. Technically, "Mrs." should never be followed by a woman's name. (Disclaimer: Many people consider that a sexist and outdated tradition, and one should always address someone as they wish to be addressed.)

PrettyGirlLost

That's how I had it- thanks!!!

ScoutF

Agree with Sars, it's Ms. First Last. 

syoun1nj

I would say Mrs First Name Last/Maiden Name. I don't think it's so much the name change that makes you a "Mrs".

I had a couple like this and I did "Mr John Doe and Mrs Mary Smith" for theirs. Hopefully I was right. 

CMGragain

Ms. Mary Smith and Mr. John Doe.

JaxInBlue

According to Emily Post (in this case, I think it's still a reliable source) it's technically Ms.  But personally, I agree with @Sars06.  I know several married women who kept their maiden name but wish to be called Mrs. rather than Ms., so I do because it's what makes them feel more comfortable.  (And the same thing for my Ms.-preferring friends.)

phira

If you don't know for sure, Ms is the default here.

KeptInStitches

Ms. is the default, but if you're unsure, I'd check with the women in question.

Jen4948

I'd default to Ms.

WinstonsGirl

I believe technically it's Ms. as Mrs. denotes the married wife of Mr.  I use both interchangeably though, since I teach and the kids can't keep it straight.  They all called me Mrs. before I was married anyway.  But I've also found being married and using Mrs. give me more credibility with parents.  Another recently married girl on staff said the same thing.  It's not very noticeable, but I'm taken more seriously now, since I'm married and therefore old enough to understand kids better I suppose.  

SP29

@WinstonsGirl my husband was telling me about an article he read that said married women get taken more seriously!

I did not know the "rule!". I still have my maiden name (going to change it once the certificate comes in), but I currently refer to myself as Mrs. FirstName MaidenLastName. 

Mrs. does come from the conjunction of Mr's, denoting a husband's possession of his wife. Many of us do not consider ourselves to be our husband's possession anymore, but still like "Mrs" in reference to being married, so I will stick with my rule breaking

To the OP- I would default to Ms. or ask the person what they prefer. 

emmyg65

SP29 said:

@WinstonsGirl my husband was telling me about an article he read that said married women get taken more seriously!

I did not know the "rule!". I still have my maiden name (going to change it once the certificate comes in), but I currently refer to myself as Mrs. FirstName MaidenLastName. 

Mrs. does come from the conjunction of Mr's, denoting a husband's possession of his wife. Many of us do not consider ourselves to be our husband's possession anymore, but still like "Mrs" in reference to being married, so I will stick with my rule breaking

To the OP- I would default to Ms. or ask the person what they prefer. 

No, Mrs. is a contraction of "Mistress" and was originally used for all women regardless of marital status until Miss came into use in the 17th century. Ms. became popular in the 20th century as an honorific for women that doesn't indicate marital status.

OliveOilsMom

If you can ask, I would.  I had a cousin who kept her married name, so I used Ms. Sally Jones.  On her reply card, she put Mrs. Sally Jones.  So even though that isn't technically correct by etiquette standards, it's what she preferred and at least I was able to follow up with her preferred title on her escort card.

LadyMorvenMacBeth

The proper term would be Ms., technically, but my FI is going to be Mrs. and she's keeping her maiden name. I know a woman who went to Miss after getting divorced, which is really improper, but nobody actually cares, and she was Ms. when she was married and wanted a different title.

In your situation, I'd just ask what she is known as.

AroundTheBlock

LadyMorvenMacBeth said:

...I know a woman who went to Miss after getting divorced, which is really improper, but nobody actually cares, and she was Ms. when she was married and wanted a different title.

...

"Miss" is perfectly correct for any lady who goes by her maiden name, married or not, even if she is still married let alone after being divorced. Prior to the repopularization of "Ms" in the 1970's, professional women routinely went by Miss Maidenname at work and by Mrs HusbandsFirst HusbandsLast socially.

antoto

I just did Ms. for everyone who I didn't know for a fact preferred Mrs.

Ms. is awesome!!!

VerizonGirl

Sally Smith married John Doe and takes his name = Mrs. John Doe
(She does not use Mrs. SALLY Doe, because that's for divorced women.)

Later, they divorce and she considers keeping DOE and not go back to SMITH = Mrs. Sally Doe
(She still uses MRS because she got the last name DOE when she got MARRIED)

Finally, she decides to go back to SMITH = Ms. Sally Smith
(She uses MS because SMITH was her own birth name)

rajahmd

VerizonGirl said:

Sally Smith married John Doe and takes his name = Mrs. John Doe
(She does not use Mrs. SALLY Doe, because that's for divorced women.)

Later, they divorce and she considers keeping DOE and not go back to SMITH = Mrs. Sally Doe
(She still uses MRS because she got the last name DOE when she got MARRIED)

Finally, she decides to go back to SMITH = Ms. Sally Smith
(She uses MS because SMITH was her own birth name)

Nope. Nope. Nope.

A woman being married does not mean she loses her first name. To say that all married womem can't use their own first name is ridiculous. And Mrs is only used for married women, regardless of whether or not they have divorced but kept the name. Mrs literally means married, that's the whole point of it (and why alot of women prefer Ms). Why would a divorced woman keep using Mrs? That makes no sense.

huskypuppy14

RajahBMFD said:

Sally Smith married John Doe and takes his name = Mrs. John Doe
(She does not use Mrs. SALLY Doe, because that's for divorced women.)

Later, they divorce and she considers keeping DOE and not go back to SMITH = Mrs. Sally Doe
(She still uses MRS because she got the last name DOE when she got MARRIED)

Finally, she decides to go back to SMITH = Ms. Sally Smith
(She uses MS because SMITH was her own birth name)

Nope. Nope. Nope. A woman being married does not mean she loses her first name. To say that all married womem can't use their own first name is ridiculous. And Mrs is only used for married women, regardless of whether or not they have divorced but kept the name. Mrs literally means married, that's the whole point of it (and why alot of women prefer Ms). Why would a divorced woman keep using Mrs? That makes no sense.

I I know a lot of widows that are still Mrs. Technically, they are no longer married because their husband died. Maybe that's a different situation, but I think that it is appropriate for them to continue using their preferred title. Most divorcees would probably use Ms. but I don't know too many, not quite sure on that.

rajahmd

laurynm84 said:

RajahBMFD said:

Sally Smith married John Doe and takes his name = Mrs. John Doe
(She does not use Mrs. SALLY Doe, because that's for divorced women.)

Later, they divorce and she considers keeping DOE and not go back to SMITH = Mrs. Sally Doe
(She still uses MRS because she got the last name DOE when she got MARRIED)

Finally, she decides to go back to SMITH = Ms. Sally Smith
(She uses MS because SMITH was her own birth name)

Nope. Nope. Nope.

A woman being married does not mean she loses her first name. To say that all married womem can't use their own first name is ridiculous. And Mrs is only used for married women, regardless of whether or not they have divorced but kept the name. Mrs literally means married, that's the whole point of it (and why alot of women prefer Ms). Why would a divorced woman keep using Mrs? That makes no sense.

I I know a lot of widows that are still Mrs. Technically, they are no longer married because their husband died. Maybe that's a different situation, but I think that it is appropriate for them to continue using their preferred title. Most divorcees would probably use Ms. but I don't know too many, not quite sure on that.

Widowed totally make sense, because they often have a sentimental attachment to it. That's why I specified divorced.

AroundTheBlock

"Traditional" etiquette rules for ladies' names were:

1) Sally Smith starts out unmarried: Miss Sally Smith

2) Sally Smith marries John Doe and
2a) takes his name socially: Mrs. John Doe
2b) uses her own name professionally: Miss Sally Smith

3) Sally Smith divorces John Doe and either
3a) keeps his surname as "Mrs Smith Doe" -- she still would not use her given name after "Mrs.", or
3b) returns to her maiden name: Miss Sally Smith

That's it. "Mrs Sally Smith" was wrong whether a lady was married or divorced. "Mrs" merely designated that a lady had been married, even if that marriage had terminated.

Modern usage differs in that "Mrs Sally Doe" is used at all social levels by the majority of married women. Ms has come into use replacing "Miss" for nearly all unmarried ladies, and for the married ladies who do not choose "Mrs Sally Doe". A small minority of married ladies prefer "Mrs John Doe", and a teeny tiny minority of married ladies still go by Miss Sally Smith on the basis of the old rule that "Miss" is the proper title for a lady who uses her natal name.

CMGragain

" I know a lot of widows that are still Mrs. Technically, they are no longer married because their husband died. Maybe that's a different situation, but I think that it is appropriate for them to continue using their preferred title. Most divorcees would probably use Ms. but I don't know too many, not quite sure on that.

Widowed totally make sense, because they often have a sentimental attachment to it. That's why I specified divorced."

OK, ladies.  I was THERE in the 1960's when the title Ms. was invented!
In the 1950's. it was very unusual to be divorced.  99% of the other kids in my elementary school were from two parent families.  Divorce was something only Hollywood actors did.  Well, that certainly wasn't true, but there was a whispered taint about being a "divorcee".  I think we would all agree that this was totally wrong, and thank goodness that has changed.

Traditionally, a married woman WAS ADDRESSED as Mrs. John Doe, but she SIGNED her checks and her letters as Jane Doe, which was her legal name.  That name did not change if her husband died.
Traditionally, when a woman was divorced, she used her maiden name in place of her ex-husband's name, Mrs. Smith Doe, but still signed her name Jane Doe, unless she had her named legally changed back to Jane Smith.  Generally if there were children from the marriage, she continued to use the title Mrs., and usually kept the married name.
The title "Miss" meant unmarried female.  If a woman was 80 years old, she was properly addressed as "Miss Jones" if she had never married.

Around 1970, (I was in university) the title Ms. became one of the banners of the feminist movement.  It was a marriage status neutral option for women.  It simply meant female, just as Mr. has always meant male.  It does not have any age connotations.  Since this title was very new to people in the 1970's, ladies who are my age or older were not taught it as being proper.  They tend to use the traditional etiquette.

Neither is wrong or right, if used correctly.  Do remember that a lady never lost her first name.  She always signed it.  She simply was addressed socially (as in mail) by her more formal title.  To address a letter to Mrs. Jane Doe was unthinkably rude before the feminist movement, and many older ladies would still feel unhappy about it.

PrettyGirlLost

Thanks for all of the great info!

My address labels for the STDs are a bit small, so for space reasons I'm going with

The traditional Mr. & Mrs. HisFirstName HisLastName for married couples

and Mr. HisFirstName HisLastName & Ms. HerFirstName HerLastName for married couples where the woman kept her maiden name.

For my actual invitations I'm going to print directly on the inner envelopes, but for the outer envelopes since the post office doesn't appreciate calligraphy fonts that are tricky to read,  I'm probably just going to use a boring, legible font and labels again.

AddieCake

I will give you a bajillion dollars if you just put "Occupant." 

PrettyGirlLost

AddieL73 said:

I will give you a bajillion dollars if you just put "Occupant." 

Hahaha!

I figured labels for STDs weren't as big a deal as labels for actual invitations.

rajahmd

PrettyGirlLost said:

Thanks for all of the great info!

My address labels for the STDs are a bit small, so for space reasons I'm going with

The traditional Mr. & Mrs. HisFirstName HisLastName for married couples

and Mr. HisFirstName HisLastName & Ms. HerFirstName HerLastName for married couples where the woman kept her maiden name.

For my actual invitations I'm going to print directly on the inner envelopes, but for the outer envelopes since the post office doesn't appreciate calligraphy fonts that are tricky to read,  I'm probably just going to use a boring, legible font and labels again.

Is there anyway you could just use "Mr and Mrs Lastname"? I feel like that has less of a likelihood to offend people. Most people who like the traditional way won't really care if there's no first name listed, but women who don't like the traditional way would be offended. I think it's most inclusive to just use Mr and Mrs with no first name.

AddieCake

I totally wasn't even dissing the labels. I just think it's hilarious that we stress over addressing invitations like this, and it makes me just want to put "Occupant" on all mail now. Next time you get mail from me, it's going to Occupant! 

rajahmd

AddieL73 said:

I totally wasn't even dissing the labels. I just think it's hilarious that we stress over addressing invitations like this, and it makes me just want to put "Occupant" on all mail now. Next time you get mail from me, it's going to Occupant! 

Where do I sign up? I love getting mail!

CMGragain

Noo

PrettyGirlLost said:

Thanks for all of the great info!

My address labels for the STDs are a bit small, so for space reasons I'm going with

The traditional Mr. & Mrs. HisFirstName HisLastName for married couples

and Mr. HisFirstName HisLastName & Ms. HerFirstName HerLastName for married couples where the woman kept her maiden name.

For my actual invitations I'm going to print directly on the inner envelopes, but for the outer envelopes since the post office doesn't appreciate calligraphy fonts that are tricky to read,  I'm probably just going to use a boring, legible font and labels again.

Noooooo!!!  Please don't use nasty, tacky labels on your beautiful wedding invitations.

ashleyep

RajahBMFD said:

Sally Smith married John Doe and takes his name = Mrs. John Doe
(She does not use Mrs. SALLY Doe, because that's for divorced women.)

Later, they divorce and she considers keeping DOE and not go back to SMITH = Mrs. Sally Doe
(She still uses MRS because she got the last name DOE when she got MARRIED)

Finally, she decides to go back to SMITH = Ms. Sally Smith
(She uses MS because SMITH was her own birth name)

Nope. Nope. Nope. A woman being married does not mean she loses her first name. To say that all married womem can't use their own first name is ridiculous. And Mrs is only used for married women, regardless of whether or not they have divorced but kept the name. Mrs literally means married, that's the whole point of it (and why alot of women prefer Ms). Why would a divorced woman keep using Mrs? That makes no sense.

My FI's parents are divorced and she still goes by Mrs. Ex's Last Name. It makes sense for her.