Do we need libraries anymore?

pinkshorts27

I find the perspective interesting. I'll be the first to say that I've lived a some-what sheltered life. I try to expand my worldview anytime I get a chance and discussions like this are perfect.

So from my perspective (not directed at OP), libraries are invaluable. When I was a kid we used them weekly. My parents couldn't afford to keep up with how much I read (about a book a day). Now looking at my FI's perspective, they were necessary. School library closed at 4pm, but often homework wasn't done by then. His family didn't have internet. They used the library for research and internet to complete homework. His 18 year old brother still does. Many people in his area, a lower income area, are in the same boat. Our library also has book clubs, community center, fountains (for when it is too hot and for people who don't have A/C).

grumbledore

jdluvr06 said:

I use my library all the time. If I bought all the books I read then my house wouldn't have room for anything else. Libraries are very vital to our communities.

Right?  Good lord, we have hundreds of books in our house and we'd have to get rid of other stuff if we wanted to house many more at this point.  We've tried to switch entirely to e-books and the library now because our book collection is already absurdly big.

MrsAitch

jenna8984 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

jenna8984 said:

lyndausvi said:

jenna8984 said:

Because that's how useful I find the additional responses lol

This isn't all about you.  I get YOU understand it now.  But there are a bunch of lurkers who might not.  

In addition to that,  even though a lot of people said yes they should build the library,  their various reasons on why differ somewhat.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds how people come to the same conclusion interesting. 

Exactly why I said twice carry on the conversation without referencing me in every post. I don't know why that is hard to fathom for some people. Because then it is just beating a dead horse for people to post exactly like @ohannabelle just did. Yea, thanks hanna, got that answer already. People already explained to me what was wrong with my post and my opinion- I didn't need it again. People can continue on their opinions about why they like libraries without ripping me apart any longer.  

They are referencing you because you started the discussion and it makes sense to reference the points that they are refuting or agreeing with!

And no one is ripping you apart- they are challenging your statements and opinions.  Have you never had a formal debate or a discussion with anyone?  Do ppl always just agree with you?

You need to learn not to take things so personally, hun!

Well their basically saying in a nice manner "you're a fucking moron for having that opinion". And this is why I feel bad for newbies, because when someone posts something they truly know nothing about like a cash bar or a pot luck (or whatever is norm in their area) people go on for days telling her how rude she is. I'm sure she gets the picture after the first 15 posts but people don't quit. That's all I'm saying, that it reaches a point where it's not helpful and makes people obviously regret their post. I just think people need to realize when to stop after the point has been made several times.

I don't disagree with you that sometimes, especially if the OP doesn't respond at all, it can get to be a bit much.

However, you keep posting. If you aren't interested in discussing the topic at hand any longer, by all means, stop responding. I think the reason everyone is so up in arms is how harsh, severe, and clueless you were in your original post. The level of response is fitting. And due to how harsh you were in your original post and your cavalier "reading is a hobby"/"everyone has the same opportunities as I did" attitude, I'm afraid to say I doubt the sincerity of you saying that you "get it now."

grumbledore

blueeyes90 said:

I find the perspective interesting. I'll be the first to say that I've lived a some-what sheltered life. I try to expand my worldview anytime I get a chance and discussions like this are perfect.

So from my perspective (not directed at OP), libraries are invaluable. When I was a kid we used them weekly. My parents couldn't afford to keep up with how much I read (about a book a day). Now looking at my FI's perspective, they were necessary. School library closed at 4pm, but often homework wasn't done by then. His family didn't have internet. They used the library for research and internet to complete homework. His 18 year old brother still does. Many people in his area, a lower income area, are in the same boat. Our library also has book clubs, community center, fountains (for when it is too hot and for people who don't have A/C).

This is so true, or how about elementary school aged kids - they aren't allowed to just hang around at school after classes end, and these days they have homework that they need the internet to complete.  My DD has to use the Power Point software in Google Drive to do presentations - she's in 4th grade.  If we didn't have a computer and the internet, she'd have to do this at the library.  A lot of kids at her school do not have internet access at home.

PrettyGirlLost

jenna8984 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

jenna8984 said:

lyndausvi said:

jenna8984 said:

Because that's how useful I find the additional responses lol

This isn't all about you.  I get YOU understand it now.  But there are a bunch of lurkers who might not.  

In addition to that,  even though a lot of people said yes they should build the library,  their various reasons on why differ somewhat.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds how people come to the same conclusion interesting. 

Exactly why I said twice carry on the conversation without referencing me in every post. I don't know why that is hard to fathom for some people. Because then it is just beating a dead horse for people to post exactly like @ohannabelle just did. Yea, thanks hanna, got that answer already. People already explained to me what was wrong with my post and my opinion- I didn't need it again. People can continue on their opinions about why they like libraries without ripping me apart any longer.  

They are referencing you because you started the discussion and it makes sense to reference the points that they are refuting or agreeing with!

And no one is ripping you apart- they are challenging your statements and opinions.  Have you never had a formal debate or a discussion with anyone?  Do ppl always just agree with you?

You need to learn not to take things so personally, hun!

Well their basically saying in a nice manner "you're a fucking moron for having that opinion".   No, you are reading that into their posts- that's your own issue you need to deal with.  In fact, everyone is disagreeing with you in a very civil and well mannered tone. This is a very civil discussion.  I'm just not sure you are used to participating in one.  And this is why I feel bad for newbies, because when someone posts something they truly know nothing about like a cash bar or a pot luck (or whatever is norm in their area) people go on for days telling her how rude she is. I'm sure she gets the picture after the first 15 posts but people don't quit. No, people don't quit when the poster begins to whine about how "it's her day" and then tries to rationalize and justify her rude behavior.  When people gracefully admit that they were wrong and that their idea was rude, we commend them.  That's all I'm saying, that it reaches a point where it's not helpful and makes people obviously regret their post. Frankly, people who post in an effort to receive validation for rude ideas should regret their post! Especially if they start whining, bitching, and calling everyone who disagrees with them names- which is often the case here.  I just think people need to realize when to stop after the point has been made several times.

jdluvr06

grumbledore said:

jdluvr06 said:

I use my library all the time. If I bought all the books I read then my house wouldn't have room for anything else. Libraries are very vital to our communities.

Right?  Good lord, we have hundreds of books in our house and we'd have to get rid of other stuff if we wanted to house many more at this point.  We've tried to switch entirely to e-books and the library now because our book collection is already absurdly big.

Ours is absurdly big too. We finally got rid of some duplicates when we were boxing up stuff for the move. We donated all the duplicates to the library. They have a used book sale every couple of months to raise some extra money. All the books they sell are donated.

jdluvr06

I have to say the op's first post really pissed me off. I'd probably be able to form much more coherent answers if I wasn't fuming.

jenna8984

jdluvr06 said:

I have to say the op's first post really pissed me off. I'd probably be able to form much more coherent answers if I wasn't fuming.

@jdluvr06 I know if I don't like the responses I can just stop participating in the discussion. Just wanted to let you know that I don't think the original post came across as I meant it to. I wasn't trying to be like "Screw everyone that uses a library, let's take them away!!". I was asking who uses them for what because I honestly did not think many people still used them. I don't know anyone who brings their kids there (or just goes for themselves) and I've never seen more than 2 cars in the parking lot to the one in my town. So it wasn't my original intention to state that they are useless, as many people have let me know that they are invaluable. My subsequent posts were not the best for my argument either, I just still wanted to get a feel for who and why people use the libraries as opposed to other methods (schools, bookstores) and why exactly everybody finds it a necessity as compared to things like organized sports and fitness which also foster learning experiences and life lessons. I will be interested now to go see the new library once it's completed and take my nephew there to take advantage of it.

chibiyui

I just thought this thread needed kitties and books. 

jdluvr06

jdluvr06 said:

I have to say the op's first post really pissed me off. I'd probably be able to form much more coherent answers if I wasn't fuming.

@jdluvr06 I know if I don't like the responses I can just stop participating in the discussion. Just wanted to let you know that I don't think the original post came across as I meant it to. I wasn't trying to be like "Screw everyone that uses a library, let's take them away!!". I was asking who uses them for what because I honestly did not think many people still used them. I don't know anyone who brings their kids there (or just goes for themselves) and I've never seen more than 2 cars in the parking lot to the one in my town. So it wasn't my original intention to state that they are useless, as many people have let me know that they are invaluable. My subsequent posts were not the best for my argument either, I just still wanted to get a feel for who and why people use the libraries as opposed to other methods (schools, bookstores) and why exactly everybody finds it a necessity as compared to things like organized sports and fitness which also foster learning experiences and life lessons. I will be interested now to go see the new library once it's completed and take my nephew there to take advantage of it.

Fitness is important and I think any organized group is good for kids, not just sports but anything, whether it be football, ballet, or a book club. Actually I think that our society has started putting physical health in the forefront. You just don't need an expensive gym to do that. You can go outside and do things. Gyms aren't necessary to physical health. I'm going to go a little off topic here but I think that society at large have put sports on a pedestal to the detriment of arts and other more educational outlets. How many times have we heard of a school spending thousands of dollars on a football team but cutting out the art class or the band? We are missing a balance in our world and all that is going to do is hurt our future generations. Sorry. I know that went off topic but this is one of those things that really bothers me.

jenna8984

jdluvr06 said:

jdluvr06 said:

I have to say the op's first post really pissed me off. I'd probably be able to form much more coherent answers if I wasn't fuming.

@jdluvr06 I know if I don't like the responses I can just stop participating in the discussion. Just wanted to let you know that I don't think the original post came across as I meant it to. I wasn't trying to be like "Screw everyone that uses a library, let's take them away!!". I was asking who uses them for what because I honestly did not think many people still used them. I don't know anyone who brings their kids there (or just goes for themselves) and I've never seen more than 2 cars in the parking lot to the one in my town. So it wasn't my original intention to state that they are useless, as many people have let me know that they are invaluable. My subsequent posts were not the best for my argument either, I just still wanted to get a feel for who and why people use the libraries as opposed to other methods (schools, bookstores) and why exactly everybody finds it a necessity as compared to things like organized sports and fitness which also foster learning experiences and life lessons. I will be interested now to go see the new library once it's completed and take my nephew there to take advantage of it.

Fitness is important and I think any organized group is good for kids, not just sports but anything, whether it be football, ballet, or a book club. Actually I think that our society has started putting physical health in the forefront. You just don't need an expensive gym to do that. You can go outside and do things. Gyms aren't necessary to physical health. I'm going to go a little off topic here but I think that society at large have put sports on a pedestal to the detriment of arts and other more educational outlets. How many times have we heard of a school spending thousands of dollars on a football team but cutting out the art class or the band? We are missing a balance in our world and all that is going to do is hurt our future generations. Sorry. I know that went off topic but this is one of those things that really bothers me.

I used to play outside in my woods for hours by myself- a 7 year old girl. Kids can't do that anymore, she would be snatched up by a weirdo. So while gyms are not necessary, kids do need a place to run around that is supervised and if the parents are working until 9pm their yard isn't always an option.

I think it's likely related to the stereotypes of the starving artist and the millionaire athlete. Kids see those portrayals on tv/ news/ media and think why should I learn to play the cello? What's that going to get me in life? I should learn to be a running back instead. Colleges have many scholarships for athletes which can be a life changer for a brilliant mind that can't afford college. Are there scholarships for sculpting or singing? I agree with you that there should be more emphasis on this but I'm sure these are the contributing factors of why the arts are dying/ ignored.

NavyBlue143

99% of kidnappings are by family members because of a custody dispute. A child is not very likely to get snatched off the streets by a random weirdo. It happens, but it is extremely rare. That method of thinking is because of media hyperbole. All crimes have been on the decline since the mid 90s, so it's safer for kids to play in their neighborhoods now than it was when we were kids.

MrsAitch

jenna8984 said:

jdluvr06 said:

jdluvr06 said:

I have to say the op's first post really pissed me off. I'd probably be able to form much more coherent answers if I wasn't fuming.

@jdluvr06 I know if I don't like the responses I can just stop participating in the discussion. Just wanted to let you know that I don't think the original post came across as I meant it to. I wasn't trying to be like "Screw everyone that uses a library, let's take them away!!". I was asking who uses them for what because I honestly did not think many people still used them. I don't know anyone who brings their kids there (or just goes for themselves) and I've never seen more than 2 cars in the parking lot to the one in my town. So it wasn't my original intention to state that they are useless, as many people have let me know that they are invaluable. My subsequent posts were not the best for my argument either, I just still wanted to get a feel for who and why people use the libraries as opposed to other methods (schools, bookstores) and why exactly everybody finds it a necessity as compared to things like organized sports and fitness which also foster learning experiences and life lessons. I will be interested now to go see the new library once it's completed and take my nephew there to take advantage of it.

Fitness is important and I think any organized group is good for kids, not just sports but anything, whether it be football, ballet, or a book club. Actually I think that our society has started putting physical health in the forefront. You just don't need an expensive gym to do that. You can go outside and do things. Gyms aren't necessary to physical health. I'm going to go a little off topic here but I think that society at large have put sports on a pedestal to the detriment of arts and other more educational outlets. How many times have we heard of a school spending thousands of dollars on a football team but cutting out the art class or the band? We are missing a balance in our world and all that is going to do is hurt our future generations. Sorry. I know that went off topic but this is one of those things that really bothers me.

I used to play outside in my woods for hours by myself- a 7 year old girl. Kids can't do that anymore, she would be snatched up by a weirdo. So while gyms are not necessary, kids do need a place to run around that is supervised and if the parents are working until 9pm their yard isn't always an option.

I think it's likely related to the stereotypes of the starving artist and the millionaire athlete. Kids see those portrayals on tv/ news/ media and think why should I learn to play the cello? What's that going to get me in life? I should learn to be a running back instead. Colleges have many scholarships for athletes which can be a life changer for a brilliant mind that can't afford college. Are there scholarships for sculpting or singing? I agree with you that there should be more emphasis on this but I'm sure these are the contributing factors of why the arts are dying/ ignored.

Kids today are probably safer than you were--crime is actually down. There is just more media coverage now, so it doesn't seem like it. Check out here for more information: http://www.freerangekids.com/faq/.

jdluvr06

@jenna8984 actually there are hundreds, probably thousands of art scholarships. So yes you can get one for singing or sculpting. I went to college on a dance scholarship. The money thing might be a contributing factor but the only reason there is so much emphasis on that is because the adults put the emphasis on that. Maybe instead of focusing what these people do in the short term we should focus on the long term. You can only play sports for so long before being physically incapable of doing it professionally anymore. You can play the cello for life. ETA: actually if a kid is looking to do an extracurricular activity that will help them get scholarships it is best for them to do something with the arts because not as many kids take advantage of those resources and it is less competitive than an athletics scholarship.

jenna8984

Well that's awesome, I did not know that.

pinkshorts27

I love the freerangekids site! Thanks for that resource. 

MuppetOverlord

jenna8984 said:

Oh now my "privilege" is showing. What does that even mean? I didn't say "Daddy sent me to Harvard". I worked two jobs to pay for my own community college that every single person can attend if they apply. I then have student loans from finishing at a state university, where I also worked two jobs. So please spare me the dramatics that I'm like a billionaire stomping down on poor people and their resources.

 

And thank you all for showing me that a large number of people do in fact use public libraries. I was concerned with the tax money because I thought it would be a wasted venture that people no longer used. Now I am glad that it's coming to my town if so many people do in fact utilize and take advantage of it.

Not everyone can attend college if they work two jobs, even community college. My husband worked 2 jobs, ate a lot of ramen, and could barely afford rent.

I'm glad you appreciate libraries now, but I also suggest removing yourself from the conversation if you are no longer interested in participating in it.

larrygaga

If you've got such a problem with everyone continuing the discussion, then maybe you should not come back to this topic? 

Or I guess you could come back and keep whining about it, that'll probably work better.

mysticl

jenna8984 said:

jdluvr06 said:

jdluvr06 said:

I have to say the op's first post really pissed me off. I'd probably be able to form much more coherent answers if I wasn't fuming.

@jdluvr06 I know if I don't like the responses I can just stop participating in the discussion. Just wanted to let you know that I don't think the original post came across as I meant it to. I wasn't trying to be like "Screw everyone that uses a library, let's take them away!!". I was asking who uses them for what because I honestly did not think many people still used them. I don't know anyone who brings their kids there (or just goes for themselves) and I've never seen more than 2 cars in the parking lot to the one in my town. So it wasn't my original intention to state that they are useless, as many people have let me know that they are invaluable. My subsequent posts were not the best for my argument either, I just still wanted to get a feel for who and why people use the libraries as opposed to other methods (schools, bookstores) and why exactly everybody finds it a necessity as compared to things like organized sports and fitness which also foster learning experiences and life lessons. I will be interested now to go see the new library once it's completed and take my nephew there to take advantage of it.

Fitness is important and I think any organized group is good for kids, not just sports but anything, whether it be football, ballet, or a book club. Actually I think that our society has started putting physical health in the forefront. You just don't need an expensive gym to do that. You can go outside and do things. Gyms aren't necessary to physical health. I'm going to go a little off topic here but I think that society at large have put sports on a pedestal to the detriment of arts and other more educational outlets. How many times have we heard of a school spending thousands of dollars on a football team but cutting out the art class or the band? We are missing a balance in our world and all that is going to do is hurt our future generations. Sorry. I know that went off topic but this is one of those things that really bothers me.

I used to play outside in my woods for hours by myself- a 7 year old girl. Kids can't do that anymore, she would be snatched up by a weirdo. So while gyms are not necessary, kids do need a place to run around that is supervised and if the parents are working until 9pm their yard isn't always an option.

I think it's likely related to the stereotypes of the starving artist and the millionaire athlete. Kids see those portrayals on tv/ news/ media and think why should I learn to play the cello? What's that going to get me in life? I should learn to be a running back instead. Colleges have many scholarships for athletes which can be a life changer for a brilliant mind that can't afford college. Are there scholarships for sculpting or singing? I agree with you that there should be more emphasis on this but I'm sure these are the contributing factors of why the arts are dying/ ignored.

They also have academic scholarships for those brilliant minds.  And scholarships for just about everything else.  I just found one for students who have worked as golf caddies.  

HisGirlFriday13

When DH and I got married, we combined libraries (about 1K books total) and donated thr duplicates to the local library where we lived.

We used copies of our favourite books on out tables in lieu of a guest book, and we donated copies of those books (about a dozen) to the local libraries where we each grew up.

For me, books were a way to read and experience new things. For DH, they were the key to getting out of an abusive home. I cannot imagine a world without libraries.

OP, I'm genuinely curious: how have you acquired your edcuation without ever stepping foot in a library? To me, that's either a hyperbolic statement on your part or a wretched failing on the part of your educational institutions.

pinkshorts27

@hisgirlfriday, I used the public library often growing up, but hated the librarians at my middle school so rarely used that. My high school I occasionally used to print. My college libraries I never use. I know where they are, but they aren't useful to me. I own an extensive textbook collection and most of my information is provided in notes or those textbooks. I'm in a tech field so printers are in every lab and I own my laptop.  Didn't have time for fun reading.  

ETA: I know I'm not OP, just wanted to add that in case it was interesting.

mysticl

blueeyes90 said:

@hisgirlfriday, I used the public library often growing up, but hated the librarians at my middle school so rarely used that. My high school I occasionally used to print. My college libraries I never use. I know where they are, but they aren't useful to me. I own an extensive textbook collection and most of my information is provided in notes or those textbooks. I'm in a tech field so printers are in every lab and I own my laptop.  Didn't have time for fun reading.  

ETA: I know I'm not OP, just wanted to add that in case it was interesting.

You didn't have to write term papers?  That's what I primarily used the libraries and my university for, obtaining the research materials I needed for my papers.  

pinkshorts27

mysticl said:

blueeyes90 said:

@hisgirlfriday, I used the public library often growing up, but hated the librarians at my middle school so rarely used that. My high school I occasionally used to print. My college libraries I never use. I know where they are, but they aren't useful to me. I own an extensive textbook collection and most of my information is provided in notes or those textbooks. I'm in a tech field so printers are in every lab and I own my laptop.  Didn't have time for fun reading.  

ETA: I know I'm not OP, just wanted to add that in case it was interesting.

You didn't have to write term papers?  That's what I primarily used the libraries and my university for, obtaining the research materials I needed for my papers.  

Engineering Degree. My only classes that I had term papers in were based off of classics (so I owned the books) or technical writing, so based on labs or research.

mysticl

blueeyes90 said:

mysticl said:

blueeyes90 said:

@hisgirlfriday, I used the public library often growing up, but hated the librarians at my middle school so rarely used that. My high school I occasionally used to print. My college libraries I never use. I know where they are, but they aren't useful to me. I own an extensive textbook collection and most of my information is provided in notes or those textbooks. I'm in a tech field so printers are in every lab and I own my laptop.  Didn't have time for fun reading.  

ETA: I know I'm not OP, just wanted to add that in case it was interesting.

You didn't have to write term papers?  That's what I primarily used the libraries and my university for, obtaining the research materials I needed for my papers.  

Engineering Degree. My only classes that I had term papers in were based off of classics (so I owned the books) or technical writing, so based on labs or research.

That makes sense.  I'm a social worker so I had to use journal articles.  Library was the best option for those.  

jenna8984

blueeyes90 said:

mysticl said:

blueeyes90 said:

@hisgirlfriday, I used the public library often growing up, but hated the librarians at my middle school so rarely used that. My high school I occasionally used to print. My college libraries I never use. I know where they are, but they aren't useful to me. I own an extensive textbook collection and most of my information is provided in notes or those textbooks. I'm in a tech field so printers are in every lab and I own my laptop.  Didn't have time for fun reading.  

ETA: I know I'm not OP, just wanted to add that in case it was interesting.

You didn't have to write term papers?  That's what I primarily used the libraries and my university for, obtaining the research materials I needed for my papers.  

Engineering Degree. My only classes that I had term papers in were based off of classics (so I owned the books) or technical writing, so based on labs or research.

Same here. Most gen ed/ core classes are composed of exams and my upper levels were accounting and finance. Libraries not needed. @hisgirlfriday13

QueerFemme

The part of the post that slayed me the most was the whole "ANYONE can go to community college if they just APPLY".  It really goes to show that not everyone understands the difference between not being wealthy and extreme poverty.

jenna8984

QueerFemme said:

The part of the post that slayed me the most was the whole "ANYONE can go to community college if they just APPLY".  It really goes to show that not everyone understands the difference between not being wealthy and extreme poverty.

Because nobody should ever work for the things they want. No they shouldn't try to win scholarships, no they shouldn't get 2-3 jobs to afford it, no they shouldn't take out student loans to better themselves, they should just go get a job at McDonald's for the rest of their lives. Since they come from poverty it's impossible for them to ever get a higher education is basically what you're saying. 

chibiyui

jenna8984 said:

QueerFemme said:

The part of the post that slayed me the most was the whole "ANYONE can go to community college if they just APPLY".  It really goes to show that not everyone understands the difference between not being wealthy and extreme poverty.

Because nobody should ever work for the things they want. No they shouldn't try to win scholarships, no they shouldn't get 2-3 jobs to afford it, no they shouldn't take out student loans to better themselves, they should just go get a job at McDonald's for the rest of their lives. Since they come from poverty it's impossible for them to ever get a higher education is basically what you're saying. 

...No. Thats not what she's saying. Sometimes your circumstances outweigh your best efforts to change them. Not everyone can win scholarships, they are, while plentiful, not an unlimited source. Not everyone has the ability to be able to carry a good GPA while working 2-3 jobs. And then, even having that degree doesn't mean you'll never have to work at McDonalds. It is extremely hard to come from an impoverished background and get ahead. As much as we as a culture love rags to riches stories, it is very hard for social advancement here in the states. The cards are stacked against you.

AddieCake

That is not at all what QF is saying, Jenna.

KeptInStitches

I will say as an engineer I have really appreciated the online periodicals that the campus library offers.