Paging @Phira

IrishDreamer

@phira‌ , as someone who was with a person so.fucking.similar it makes me sick that someone else is struggling like that. My ex T was so damn similar to J it makes my heart hurt for you so so much.

T never wanted to split time with my family and his, and always made the excuse that my mom and I butt heads a lot. He was very derogatory towards my family and I realized after we split how much bullshit I put up with.

Let me tell you right now, i don't give a flying shit who said it, or how drunk he was, saying shit like that is NOT.FUCKING.ACCEPTABLE.

Do not feel bad about postponing. Ask the ladies here, T and I were engaged for over a year and never set a date. I am so very very very grateful we did not.

It is NEVER ok to let someone treat you like you are less than themselves. Fuck that noise.

I know I'm not on here a lot, but I lurk and try to keep up with everyone. I really hope you take what these ladies have said to heart.

Please pm me or text me if you want to talk. Like I said, I was in a similar situation and made the decision to walk away. Not saying you need to walk completely, but I think going into a wedding and marriage in such turmoil is a bad idea.

lilacck28

ugh no paragraphs.

lilacck28

Want to add: Reading through all of this, I was also often thinking "lilacck28, you only know Phira's side of the story when she's feeling a little venty. You don't know about all the great stuff. I hope they work it out, she shouldn't necessarily throw in the towel, and maybe you shouldn't be saying stuff about how her J is being a jerkface". Until now. Now I feel like evidence of his lack of respect just keeps mounting, and that is something that you just cannot work through. I still hope I'm wrong but...

phira

lilacck28 said:

Want to add: Reading through all of this, I was also often thinking "lilacck28, you only know Phira's side of the story when she's feeling a little venty. You don't know about all the great stuff. I hope they work it out, she shouldn't necessarily throw in the towel, and maybe you shouldn't be saying stuff about how her J is being a jerkface". Until now. Now I feel like evidence of his lack of respect just keeps mounting, and that is something that you just cannot work through. I still hope I'm wrong but...

I mean, I'm like ... 99% sure that the way I relay information is biased towards my side of the story, but the way I read people's responses, I get the feeling that even if I were capable of giving a truly unbiased account and/or had J add in his side, folks would still be like, "Um maybe therapy before you get married?"

loves2shop4shoes

phira said:

lilacck28 said:

Want to add: Reading through all of this, I was also often thinking "lilacck28, you only know Phira's side of the story when she's feeling a little venty. You don't know about all the great stuff. I hope they work it out, she shouldn't necessarily throw in the towel, and maybe you shouldn't be saying stuff about how her J is being a jerkface". Until now. Now I feel like evidence of his lack of respect just keeps mounting, and that is something that you just cannot work through. I still hope I'm wrong but...

I mean, I'm like ... 99% sure that the way I relay information is biased towards my side of the story, but the way I read people's responses, I get the feeling that even if I were capable of giving a truly unbiased account and/or had J add in his side, folks would still be like, "Um maybe therapy before you get married?"

I feel like people realize that this is only one side of the story.  That being said, there are certain things that are irrefutable.  They are facts.  And unless you are delusional/hallucinating (which I sincerely doubt), you really cannot spin a fact.

Fact:  He said he didn't want to spend Father's Day with your family because you "don't really have a dad anyway."

Fact:  He expects you to spend every Christmas with his family, but expect to alternate Thanksgiving.

Fact:  He debated going to the hospital with you because he didn't want to miss family movie night.

I hope you see where I'm going with this...

While of course you put your own spin on this, the overwhelming majority of it you did not (and could not!) make up.

cu97tiger

@phira, I understand that we're only getting your side of the story, but unless you are a bald-faced liar, and J didn't 1) say the things you said he said or 2) put his family consistently before your relationship, then I don't see how the wedding date is salvageable. There is too much work to do for both of you. He needs to recognize what being in a relationship means (i.e. putting the relationship before the needs of family members) and you need to learn that you are a valuable person who should not only be cared for when they are sick, but should also be treated with respect at all times.

FWIW, my husband isn't much of a church-goer. He doesn't necessarily NOT believe in God, but he also has some doubts/questions. I would never ever ever EVER suggest that we shouldn't spend Christmas with his family because he isn't 'Christian enough'. Him suggesting that because you are Jewish you shouldn't be with your family on Christmas is reprehensible. Now I'm just ragey.

bride2b71614

@phira, first off hugs. All the pps have given amazing advice. While I understand how making the decision to postpone the wedding together may look better to your guests, this isn't about them. Its about you and J. Call me cold hearted, but I think its acceptable to make a decision in which you postpone the wedding without considering how his emotions will affect you. He makes plenty of decisions without you that benefit him (the holidays as the perfect example), so its okay to do what is best for you emotionally. I hope that treatment helps, and that whatever decision you come to, we will all be there to support you 110%.

loves2shop4shoes

cu97tiger said:

@phira, I understand that we're only getting your side of the story, but unless you are a bald-faced liar, and J didn't 1) say the things you said he said or 2) put his family consistently before your relationship, then I don't see how the wedding date is salvageable. There is too much work to do for both of you. He needs to recognize what being in a relationship means (i.e. putting the relationship before the needs of family members) and you need to learn that you are a valuable person who should not only be cared for when they are sick, but should also be treated with respect at all times.

FWIW, my husband isn't much of a church-goer. He doesn't necessarily NOT believe in God, but he also has some doubts/questions. I would never ever ever EVER suggest that we shouldn't spend Christmas with his family because he isn't 'Christian enough'. Him suggesting that because you are Jewish you shouldn't be with your family on Christmas is reprehensible. Now I'm just ragey.

This.  Can we just discuss...

You can't spend Father's Day with your family, because your family isn't good enough to qualify for that right.

You can't spend Christmas with your family because your family isn't Christian enough.

Why is this a competition between your families?  Why can't it just be "We have X amount of vacation time, and regardless of religious creed or family dynamic, we should split that time equally among families?"

KeptInStitches

@phira, this is absolutely disgusting. DO NOT put up with anyone who gaslights you. I'm ragey on your behalf - like flames on the side of my face ragey. Please, please, please, at least postpone your wedding.

lilacck28

loves2shop4shoes said:

cu97tiger said:

@phira, I understand that we're only getting your side of the story, but unless you are a bald-faced liar, and J didn't 1) say the things you said he said or 2) put his family consistently before your relationship, then I don't see how the wedding date is salvageable. There is too much work to do for both of you. He needs to recognize what being in a relationship means (i.e. putting the relationship before the needs of family members) and you need to learn that you are a valuable person who should not only be cared for when they are sick, but should also be treated with respect at all times.

FWIW, my husband isn't much of a church-goer. He doesn't necessarily NOT believe in God, but he also has some doubts/questions. I would never ever ever EVER suggest that we shouldn't spend Christmas with his family because he isn't 'Christian enough'. Him suggesting that because you are Jewish you shouldn't be with your family on Christmas is reprehensible. Now I'm just ragey.

This.  Can we just discuss...

You can't spend Father's Day with your family, because your family isn't good enough to qualify for that right.

You can't spend Christmas with your family because your family isn't Christian enough.

Why is this a competition between your families?  Why can't it just be "We have X amount of vacation time, and regardless of religious creed or family dynamic, we should split that time equally among families?"

STUCK IN BOX

YES YES YES SO MUCH THIS

phira

Well, it's more like, we can't spend Father's Day with my family because my family's get-together is not a Fathers' Day thing (it wasn't--it was just my mom's family getting together for dinner because a relative we hadn't seen in 20 years was visiting), and his family's get-together is a Fathers' Day cookout and his dad and grandfather would be there (my dad is out of the picture, and my grandfather died 25 years ago).

And it's more like Christmas is his favorite holiday EVER and he spends almost 24 hours at his parents' house (goes over the night before for dinner and to open presents from his brothers, goes home to sleep, comes back in the morning for more presents, hangs out all day, then dinner is at 3 and he stays till 9 or 10pm). Whereas in my family, my uncle (who married out) invites people for Chinese food and a movie on Christmas Eve, and then hosts dinner at 5 or 6 the next day; I'd been going to Christmas dinner for about 15 years with my family, and I'd done Christmas Eve for 3 or 4 years before I started dating J. Additionally, my family doesn't do all day Thanksgiving or Chanukah dinners--more like 3-5 hours at Thanksgiving (people with small kids go home early) and 2-3 hours at Chanukah. Compared to, say, 6-7 hours at J's uncle's house for Thanksgiving, and ALL DAY Christmas.

Meanwhile, complicating matters, we don't have a car, we can't afford to rent Zipcars for every family event, and our families live in different directions (most of my family lives 30-60 minutes west).

The thing is, I see where he's coming from: why is it so important for me to do Christmas dinner with my family when I didn't grow up celebrating the actual holiday (my family's Christmas dinner is like Thanksgiving dinner ... which is like a regular big family dinner), and when I don't even like Christmas? He doesn't see it as the only times I see a lot of my family anymore.

phira

Sorry I'm all GUYS LOOK AT MY PROBLEMS AHHH I just don't know how to go about postponing the wedding without it being some kind of nuclear option, both in terms of my relationship with J, and in terms of our families. My mom and I were emailing back and forth earlier and I'm kind of upset because I can tell that she DOESN'T approve of postponing the wedding. She thinks that I'm making the decision over something insignificant that plenty of people deal with (e.g. splitting holidays ... as if she's entirely forgotten how I was calling her in tears earlier this month over not-that-issue?), and that postponing sounds "very negative" and I should probably just break everything off if that's how I feel.

Swazzle

phira said:

Well, it's more like, we can't spend Father's Day with my family because my family's get-together is not a Fathers' Day thing (it wasn't--it was just my mom's family getting together for dinner because a relative we hadn't seen in 20 years was visiting), and his family's get-together is a Fathers' Day cookout and his dad and grandfather would be there (my dad is out of the picture, and my grandfather died 25 years ago).

And it's more like Christmas is his favorite holiday EVER and he spends almost 24 hours at his parents' house (goes over the night before for dinner and to open presents from his brothers, goes home to sleep, comes back in the morning for more presents, hangs out all day, then dinner is at 3 and he stays till 9 or 10pm). Whereas in my family, my uncle (who married out) invites people for Chinese food and a movie on Christmas Eve, and then hosts dinner at 5 or 6 the next day; I'd been going to Christmas dinner for about 15 years with my family, and I'd done Christmas Eve for 3 or 4 years before I started dating J. Additionally, my family doesn't do all day Thanksgiving or Chanukah dinners--more like 3-5 hours at Thanksgiving (people with small kids go home early) and 2-3 hours at Chanukah. Compared to, say, 6-7 hours at J's uncle's house for Thanksgiving, and ALL DAY Christmas.

Meanwhile, complicating matters, we don't have a car, we can't afford to rent Zipcars for every family event, and our families live in different directions (most of my family lives 30-60 minutes west).

The thing is, I see where he's coming from: why is it so important for me to do Christmas dinner with my family when I didn't grow up celebrating the actual holiday (my family's Christmas dinner is like Thanksgiving dinner ... which is like a regular big family dinner), and when I don't even like Christmas? He doesn't see it as the only times I see a lot of my family anymore.

You are making excuses for him and giving him a free pass to dictate that his family is more important than yours which in turns is him not putting you and your feelings first. I realize that not having a car complicates things but it is not ok that he is so against coming up with some sort of a compromise.

Swazzle

phira said:

Sorry I'm all GUYS LOOK AT MY PROBLEMS AHHH I just don't know how to go about postponing the wedding without it being some kind of nuclear option, both in terms of my relationship with J, and in terms of our families. My mom and I were emailing back and forth earlier and I'm kind of upset because I can tell that she DOESN'T approve of postponing the wedding. She thinks that I'm making the decision over something insignificant that plenty of people deal with (e.g. splitting holidays ... as if she's entirely forgotten how I was calling her in tears earlier this month over not-that-issue?), and that postponing sounds "very negative" and I should probably just break everything off if that's how I feel.

Phira, you HAVE to stop worrying about what other people think about the possibility of postponing. This is YOUR life and these problems are really serious. What happens if things never improve and now you're married and divorce is the only way out? That's way more painful, difficult, and expensive than saying "things are not ok right now, let's take some extra time to work it out and make sure we are doing the right thing."

IrishDreamer

For the love of everything holy. Would you stop and listen to yourself?!? You are making excuses for him making you feel like shit and insignificant. If you want to spend Christmas with your family, FUCKING do it!!!

Who the fuck is he to say simply because Christmas is his favorite holiday that it means any less to you or it's any less important to you. Fuck that.

I'm sorry I'm not sorry if I'm coming across harsh, but I just can't keep my mouth shut when I see someone getting hurt like this

loves2shop4shoes

Swazzle said:

Well, it's more like, we can't spend Father's Day with my family because my family's get-together is not a Fathers' Day thing (it wasn't--it was just my mom's family getting together for dinner because a relative we hadn't seen in 20 years was visiting), and his family's get-together is a Fathers' Day cookout and his dad and grandfather would be there (my dad is out of the picture, and my grandfather died 25 years ago).

And it's more like Christmas is his favorite holiday EVER and he spends almost 24 hours at his parents' house (goes over the night before for dinner and to open presents from his brothers, goes home to sleep, comes back in the morning for more presents, hangs out all day, then dinner is at 3 and he stays till 9 or 10pm). Whereas in my family, my uncle (who married out) invites people for Chinese food and a movie on Christmas Eve, and then hosts dinner at 5 or 6 the next day; I'd been going to Christmas dinner for about 15 years with my family, and I'd done Christmas Eve for 3 or 4 years before I started dating J. Additionally, my family doesn't do all day Thanksgiving or Chanukah dinners--more like 3-5 hours at Thanksgiving (people with small kids go home early) and 2-3 hours at Chanukah. Compared to, say, 6-7 hours at J's uncle's house for Thanksgiving, and ALL DAY Christmas.

Meanwhile, complicating matters, we don't have a car, we can't afford to rent Zipcars for every family event, and our families live in different directions (most of my family lives 30-60 minutes west).

The thing is, I see where he's coming from: why is it so important for me to do Christmas dinner with my family when I didn't grow up celebrating the actual holiday (my family's Christmas dinner is like Thanksgiving dinner ... which is like a regular big family dinner), and when I don't even like Christmas? He doesn't see it as the only times I see a lot of my family anymore.

You are making excuses for him and giving him a free pass to dictate that his family is more important than yours which in turns is him not putting you and your feelings first. I realize that not having a car complicates things but it is not ok that he is so against coming up with some sort of a compromise.

THIS.  EVERY WORD OF THIS.

@Phira, you are making excuses and minimizing really reprehensible behavior.  Why does it matter how many hours each side spends doing what?  It's family time regardless of whether it's Chinese food and a movie or a sleigh ride with Santa Claus himself! 

So WHAT if his family celebrates Christmas for 24 hours consecutively.  WHY is that better or more worthy of your time and attention than your family's Chinese food ritual?  Again, WHY is it a competition?  WHY does his family AUTOMATICALLY win?

Does your family REALIZE that they are, and will always be, second banana in J's eyes?  How do they feel about that?  How do YOU feel about that?

WHY is the compromise ALWAYS you giving in to whatever he thinks/feels/wants?  WHEN is the compromise him going out of his way for YOU/your family?  WHY are you ok with this?

phira

I wish I just knew what to do in the short term. I think my current plan is to eat leftover cupcakes and start rewatching Once Upon a Time.

Swazzle

phira said:

I wish I just knew what to do in the short term. I think my current plan is to eat leftover cupcakes and start rewatching Once Upon a Time.

Do that tonight.

Tomorrow do every single possible thing in your power to find a therapist that can start seeing you sooner than later.

Stop doing anything wedding-related.

IrishDreamer

phira said:

I wish I just knew what to do in the short term. I think my current plan is to eat leftover cupcakes and start rewatching Once Upon a Time.

I understand wanting to do that. However DO NOT fucking bury your head in the sand and hope this will go away

loves2shop4shoes

phira said:

I wish I just knew what to do in the short term. I think my current plan is to eat leftover cupcakes and start rewatching Once Upon a Time.

Allow me to assist you.

Step 1:  Realize that all of the women who have replied are all alike in that they are smart, caring, and have zero skin in the matter.
Step 2:  Find the nearest pint of Ben & Jerry's and make it disappear.
Step 3:  Go to sleep.
Step 4:  Tomorrow, find a therapist.  Immediately.  If the Danielsen is full, contact Wendy Jolles. See if she can take you.  She is wonderful. You will thank me.
Step 5:  Stop ALL wedding planning/conversations.

phira

Swazzle said:

I wish I just knew what to do in the short term. I think my current plan is to eat leftover cupcakes and start rewatching Once Upon a Time.

Do that tonight. Tomorrow do every single possible thing in your power to find a therapist that can start seeing you sooner than later. Stop doing anything wedding-related.

I have an individual therapy appointment on Wednesday. I'm kind of all out of energy with regards to finding a couple's therapist, but I'll see how I feel tomorrow. I'll need to cancel the engagement photo session we have this weekend (although the photographer recommends it for 3-6 months beforehand, so it's not something she'll be in a rush to complete anyway). I haven't done anything wedding related since two weeks ago, besides canceling our venue meeting.

phira

loves2shop4shoes said:

phira said:

I wish I just knew what to do in the short term. I think my current plan is to eat leftover cupcakes and start rewatching Once Upon a Time.

Allow me to assist you.

Step 1:  Realize that all of the women who have replied are all alike in that they are smart, caring, and have zero skin in the matter.
Step 2:  Find the nearest pint of Ben & Jerry's and make it disappear.
Step 3:  Go to sleep.
Step 4:  Tomorrow, find a therapist.  Immediately.  If the Danielsen is full, contact Wendy Jolles. See if she can take you.  She is wonderful. You will thank me.
Step 5:  Stop ALL wedding planning/conversations.

I will definitely contact Wendy Jolles. Looks like she's super frickin conveniently located, too.

@IrishDreamer Don't worry, this is more like, "I have no fucking clue what to do with myself the rest of the night while I sit in the bedroom dicking around online and J sits in the living room probably crying because OH SO SAD."

loves2shop4shoes

phira said:

loves2shop4shoes said:

phira said:

I wish I just knew what to do in the short term. I think my current plan is to eat leftover cupcakes and start rewatching Once Upon a Time.

Allow me to assist you.

Step 1:  Realize that all of the women who have replied are all alike in that they are smart, caring, and have zero skin in the matter.
Step 2:  Find the nearest pint of Ben & Jerry's and make it disappear.
Step 3:  Go to sleep.
Step 4:  Tomorrow, find a therapist.  Immediately.  If the Danielsen is full, contact Wendy Jolles. See if she can take you.  She is wonderful. You will thank me.
Step 5:  Stop ALL wedding planning/conversations.

I will definitely contact Wendy Jolles. Looks like she's super frickin conveniently located, too.

@IrishDreamer Don't worry, this is more like, "I have no fucking clue what to do with myself the rest of the night while I sit in the bedroom dicking around online and J sits in the living room probably crying because OH SO SAD."

It's a pity J doesn't spend less time crying a more time being a considerate partner...  Just sayin.

IrishDreamer

phira said:

loves2shop4shoes said:

phira said:

I wish I just knew what to do in the short term. I think my current plan is to eat leftover cupcakes and start rewatching Once Upon a Time.

Allow me to assist you.

Step 1:  Realize that all of the women who have replied are all alike in that they are smart, caring, and have zero skin in the matter.
Step 2:  Find the nearest pint of Ben & Jerry's and make it disappear.
Step 3:  Go to sleep.
Step 4:  Tomorrow, find a therapist.  Immediately.  If the Danielsen is full, contact Wendy Jolles. See if she can take you.  She is wonderful. You will thank me.
Step 5:  Stop ALL wedding planning/conversations.

I will definitely contact Wendy Jolles. Looks like she's super frickin conveniently located, too.

@IrishDreamer Don't worry, this is more like, "I have no fucking clue what to do with myself the rest of the night while I sit in the bedroom dicking around online and J sits in the living room probably crying because OH SO SAD."

I totally am all for eating all the cupcakes


And I'm going to sound like a big ass fucking bitch and sorry I'm not sorry..... But Boo Fucking Hoo. Let him fucking cry. He is being a ginormous douchetwat.

lilacck28

The hours that J spends with his family on Christmas does not seem at all like a viable reason for you to not spend time with your family. In fact, it seems to me like a reason that it should be even easier for you to spend time with both families! His has a 24 hour celebration... so go to 12 hours or whatever of that, and make time for the 3-6 hours that your family spends celebrating being a family. 

Sleep is good. Therapists are good. Writing things out and giving that letter to J might also be a good idea. Sometimes we get heated in the moment and become defensive, and just keep trying to talk our way out of things. Maybe if he saw what he was doing  and how you felt on paper he will actually see what utter nonsense his behavior is, and that your feelings about postponing are valid. And MAYBE (huge maybe) then after some time he will change. But I wouldn't be holding my breath on that. 

Also, I think unless you've told your mom the full story, she probably would poo poo postponing an engagement. But if you want a future with J, I think it is probably wise not to fully disclose these things with her for the same reason that you are fearful that J's family will get mad at you. Because if I told my family that M (that's my fiance) did or said any of the things that you have mentioned J has, they would never forgive him. 

phira

@loves2shop4shoes Yeah, it's really infuriating because everything turns into the same damn fight:

Me: My feelings are hurt because of this thing.

J: Well, it wasn't my intention to hurt you and also here's what you did wrong.

Me: Obviously your intention wasn't to hurt me, but you still did.

J: I shouldn't have to apologize because I'm trying to explain to you how I didn't do anything wrong.

Me: But I'm still upset so maybe you should stop trying to explain.

J: But you have to let me explain.

Me: But it just makes me more upset.

J: But I shouldn't have to apologize because you hurt my feelings too.

Me: Why didn't you tell me I hurt your feelings when I hurt your feelings?
J: Because I know how much it upsets you, so I was trying to spare your feelings at the time.

Me: That doesn't make any sense.

J: Neither does me apologizing when I didn't do anything wrong.

[three hours later]

J: [sobbing] I'm sorry it's all my fault please make the fight stop

But obviously, this isn't worrisome enough that we should consider postponing the wedding and get some serious therapy.

Am I seriously the only person who thinks, "Okay yes, I will go to couple's therapy because I love you and of course I want to work on these things that make you unhappy in our relationship?"

ETA: This post brought to you by J trembling in the fetal position on the couch, listening to music on headphones, ignoring me.

loves2shop4shoes

I realize that this question is very personal, and you are absolutely not under any obligation to answer it, but is this how your sex life is too?

You give and give and give and it's all.about.him?  And then you have to either fake it or he throws a tantrum because, despite him not putting in effort, you didn't magically get off?

Because with the dynamic you two seem to have, I'd frankly be absolutely shocked if he was a considerate lover.

KeptInStitches

@phira, this is insane. This is the definition of insanity. You are doing the same things over and over and expecting a different result. I don't care what he thinks anymore. Postpone your wedding. Indefinitely. And take a long, hard look at your relationship, with or without J's support.

bethsmiles

I'm just going to address the holiday thing really quick. Holidays are HUGE in my family. Thanksgiving and Christmas are both a really big deal and all day, family events. BF's family is not so into the holidays. But guess what? I don't demand that BF and I never spend the holidays with his family even when my family's celebrations are bigger. It's not fair for him to say that your family essentially isn't good enough to spend holidays with because they are different from his family.

Blackbird230

First of all, *hugs* Second of all, I know I've kept quiet throughout a lot of this. However, I just want to say I really agree with things Shoes has said (and a lot of you other ladies, but it feels like Shoes is reading my mind and typing it out.) When it comes to postponing the engagement, you can only consider your own feelings. Because when it comes down to it, you are the one living with the situation. Not your mother, not his family. You.