Wedding Etiquette Forum

is it rude to not serve meat?

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Re: is it rude to not serve meat?

  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost A Land Filled with Unicorns and Cat Hair member
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    I'm just baffled at all the people who don't seem to realize that vegetables contain protein. There are 7 grams of protein in one stalk of broccoli, for crying out loud. It's more protein-dense than meat. And I'm willing to bet most of ya'll aren't body builders who need excessive amounts of protein in every meal, and even if you are you will NOT, in fact, shrivel up like King Triton when he got turned into seaweed if you go one meal without 2 chicken breasts and 8 scrambled egg whites. Americans eat 50% more protein per day than we need to. You will survive.


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    Vegetable proteins are not the same biologically as meat proteins, they do not contain the same amino acids. The proteins in meat are actually vital in maintaining brain and nerve health. . .we evolved to have such large brains because of meat proteins. We are omnivores though, not exclusive carnivores.

    HOWEVER, this is not to say that vegetable proteins are not or cannot be as filling as meat proteins. That's a silly assumption. I have had vegetarian meals at Indian restaurants and have never been hungry. . .in fact I was stuffed.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • simcal18simcal18 member
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    edited June 2014
    mskatia said:
    I'm just baffled at all the people who don't seem to realize that vegetables contain protein. There are 7 grams of protein in one stalk of broccoli, for crying out loud. It's more protein-dense than meat. And I'm willing to bet most of ya'll aren't body builders who need excessive amounts of protein in every meal, and even if you are you will NOT, in fact, shrivel up like King Triton when he got turned into seaweed if you go one meal without 2 chicken breasts and 8 scrambled egg whites. Americans eat 50% more protein per day than we need to. You will survive.

    Not sure where this chart is from but it's super misleading.  A skinless chicken breast is 92% protein.  Extra lean ground beef is around 70% protein.  And yes, most Americans do eat more protein than is strictly necessary for survival, but for those of us who are carb sensitive and like to avoid blood sugar crashes, it can be hard to find an acceptable dietary replacement for a juicy hunk of animal flesh.  None of this is to say that the OP shouldn't serve vegan food at her wedding--she can and should absolutely serve food that is in accord with her belief system.  But she can do it without denigrating the dietary choices of others.
    First bolded... no, it's not. The numbers I gave represent the grams of protein per 100 grams of each food, and there are a number of sources that back it up. Here's one promoting meat that still gives numbers as low as mine. http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/foods-highest-in-protein.php

    SITB--that's an incredibly misleading way to present protein content because of varying food density. Moreover, your explanation makes no sense--a lot of the fine print on the chart is hard to read but it shows percentages, clearly, not grams. There is no way that chicken is that low in protein unless you are counting the bones and feathers, and probably not even then.  4 oz of chicken breast has 27 grams of protein.  In order to get 27 grams of protein from broccoli, you would have to eat 9 CUPS of it.  When is the last time you or anyone you know ate 9 cups of broccoli in a single sitting?

    Look, I said above that the OP should serve vegan food at her wedding.  If I were invited I would eat her food without complaint.  Her guests have no right to insult her diet, demand meat, or complain about her food.  But that doesn't make posting misleading information to support it okay.  She clearly has some very strongly held beliefs about her veganism.  I have very strong beliefs about my lean animal protein and vegetable based diet, namely because it allowed me to lose over 100 pounds and turn from a couch potato to someone who could complete triathlons and run 1/2 marathons.  We all have our reasons for our individual food choices.  I'm not insulting her diet, so please don't insult mine with snarky cartoons.

    By the way, gorillas get their protein from eating insects.  :-)
    RebeccaB88
  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost A Land Filled with Unicorns and Cat Hair member
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    MagicInk said:

    So I hate fish. I will eat shellfish (shrimp, lobster, and crab), but fish fish? Nope nope.


    I went to a wedding once that had two different kinds of fish for the entree. That was it, Fish 1 or Fish 2. I did not bitch, whine, moan, or complain. I ate my sides (which were yummy), I told the bride and groom it was a lovely wedding, and got a cheeseburger on the way home.

    I've got no idea why the picked two kids of fish, I'm sure they have their reasons, but as a guest they attempted to provide me with a sufficient meal. My dislike of fish is not their problem. They did have some shrimp, but it was the cold cocktail shrimp and I don't like that. 

    I'm seeing the vegan wedding as the same deal. And I'm having a hard time believing all these manly men who eat just meat and potatoes all the time are gonna keel over if they don't have a huge hunk of steak. In less you're Ron Swanson, you can forgo meat at one meal and live to tell the tale.
    I'm sure we've all had bad wedding food at some point or another. You make the best of it and then grab something else to eat on the way home. I have never seen anyone die at a reception due to dried out chicken!

    I like to try new foods, and while Vegan is not a lifestyle I would subscribe to, I'd enjoy the opportunity to try Vegan foods and I'd never complain about a host trying to properly host me while maintaining her moral/ethical beliefs.

    I get that many ppl don't care for or don't care to try Vegan cuisine. . .but for a single meal you can just suck it up, no?

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


    VulgarGirlNYCBruinluckysnorkel
  • theartistformerlyknownastheartistformerlyknownas peaced out. member
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    I'm just baffled at all the people who don't seem to realize that vegetables contain protein. There are 7 grams of protein in one stalk of broccoli, for crying out loud. It's more protein-dense than meat. And I'm willing to bet most of ya'll aren't body builders who need excessive amounts of protein in every meal, and even if you are you will NOT, in fact, shrivel up like King Triton when he got turned into seaweed if you go one meal without 2 chicken breasts and 8 scrambled egg whites. Americans eat 50% more protein per day than we need to. You will survive.

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    i can't read the graphic so i'm not sure whta they're saying but one serving of spinach isn't 43% of your daily protein.

    i guet most of mine from lentils and legumes. and vegan protein powder in shakes... but i am actuall a marathon runner and need quite a bit of protein :)
    It's not percent daily value - they're saying that spinach itself is made up of 43% protein. You'd have to eat a super large volume of it to get as much protein as other sources just because it's so light, but it is a protein dense food. 

    And yes, to PGL's point you need multiple sources of vegetarian protein to make up a "complete protein" and get your full spectrum amino acids. But it can be done.

    FTR, I love meat, cheese and eggs... but damn we could all stand to eat more vegetables.

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  • NYCBruin said:
    jenajjthr said:
    If you are vegan, then you are not expected to serve meat even if you know you have meat eaters in attendance, (some like my husband don't really eat veggies because they have texture issues and avoid them at all cost) but you are not being rude if you don't. Meat eaters can suck it up for 6 hours, eat before or after, they aren' going to starve if they don't eat then and there. If you do eat meat, then you HAVE to provide at least a vegetarian option, if needed, or you are a rude host. This is a life style choice, stomachs can't handle meat any more, it's rude not to accommodate them, etc. Why the difference in which host is rude and which is not? If you choose to be vegan, awesome, but why force that on me? I sort of understand the ethics, but plants are living things as well. They have to be killed for our sustenance. What makes one killing better than the rest? That is where I think both sides need to be accommodating. You, again general you, may not approve of something, but remember not all guests hold those beliefs and should be hosted properly (both sides). For meat eaters find something more than mashed potatoes, veggies, or pasta with marinara. For vegans, be just as accommodating, it doesn't have to be steak, but there are meat dishes out there that are fulfilling, but aren't in your face either.
    This post is ridiculous and offensive.  Asking someone who eats meat to offer a vegetarian option is completely different than asking a vegan to offer meat.  One is asking someone to pay for something they are morally/ethically opposed to an one does not.

    The more appropriate analogy here would be to drinks.  Those who enjoy alcohol are expected to offer non-alcoholic options because otherwise the non-drinkers would be very thirsty.  Those who do not drink are not required to offer booze.  If you are at a dry wedding and you don't enjoy the non-alcoholic drinks offered (let's say you don't drink iced tea, but that's the only offering), then you're stuck with water but you can't say that you were forced to be thirsty.  You just didn't like the options offered.  There's nothing rude about the host not catering to your specific desires.  

    If someone is at a vegan wedding and decides they don't like the entree options, then they may have to fill up on sides.  Too bad, but that's what happens when you're picky and don't like the choices offered.  If I don't eat fish and don't like chicken, but those are the only two choices offered by the host, that's on me and not on the host.  The fact that the entree choices just happen to not include meat doesn't magically make it rude to not offer a guests' first choice.
    Most vegetarians/vegans I know fall into two camps...it's a healthy lifestyle choice or I'm opposed to the killing of animals. I'll address each separately. 

    Lifestyle for health reasons only. This is where I fully believe you should provide a meat option. This is your lifestyle choice, not everybody else's. If it's rude for me not to provide you a vegetarian/vegan option for your lifestyle choice than it's rude for you not to provide me a meat option for my omnivore lifestyle choice. (For me, it's mostly carnivore due to other issues neither here nor there...don't eat many plant based foods)

    If you choose to be vegetarian/vegan due to the morals and ethics of killing then I talk semantics and where I pissed off other pp's. I'm not a plant person, have a black thumb, but that doesn't mean that I don't recognize that they are beautiful living creatures that do respond to positive and negative feedback. Science has shown that plants do respond positively and negatively to different types of talk, music, environment, and so on. Plants do respond, just not in the cutesy, lovey, ways that animals do. They can't look at us with big brown eyes and with music playing in the background showing us the horror of their death. They can't make noise when we cut them from the ground, ripping them from their life source. But yet they die as well. But hey, since they aren't sentient in they way we say/think they should be then it's okay to kill them. It wasn't so long ago that we as humans didn't think animals were considered sentient beings either. I would say that there is probably still some scientific controversy on that aspect still.

    To respond to the drink analogy. I've been to weddings were I've only been offered coffee, tea, or water. No, didn't go thirsty, but I don't drink tea or coffee. I was slightly offended, not that I didn't get free alcohol, but soda is extremely cheap. It would be nice if it was offered as well. As for serving alcohol vs not serving alcohol. Alcohol is not food, therefore not really a good comparison to make. 
  • KatieinBklnKatieinBkln (NO SLEEP TIL) Brooklyn! member
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    People saying they've "never" had a vegan entree are cracking me up. You've never had pasta with a non-meat sauce? Vegetable fried-rice? I mean, I'm sure everyone on this earth has had a vegan entree--the only difference is they didn't realize it, or that no one presented it as such. 

    Also, just a fun fact for anyone wondering what's "in" those vegan meatballs, or what-have-you--chances are there are some grains, and perhaps even beets! I get these amazing "beet-ball parm" sandwiches from my favorite vegan vendor, and they are so damn good. I wouldn't say that I can't tell they're not made of meat--they are definitely less "meaty"--but they are a pretty darn good imitation, texture-wise, and they are delicious in their own right.

    When I was younger, I would have made a big old stink about faux dairy vegan stuff--I'm from Wisconsin and dammit, we believe in cream! (or something). Until one day my co-worker said, "Hey, want an ice cream sandwich?" I accepted, loved it, and then she mentioned offhand that they were nondairy. I had to change my tune a bit after that, because I would not have known for a second. I thought they were frozen yogurt, so I could tell they weren't full-fat cream, but evidently my taste buds couldn't tell the difference between skim milk and tofu, so...I chilled out a bit after that.
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    [Deleted User]hanckypankycupcait927luckysnorkel
  • I don't understand why people feel they need to have meat at every meal anyway. I mean I get liking the flavor but, for example, my great grandmother doesn't think it counts as a meal unless there is some sort of meat included. She got all bent out of shape once saying she had nothing to feed me because she made pork chops one nice for dinner when we were over there. I ate a ton of sides and dessert and left her house feely overly stuffed but in her mind because I didn't eat the meat I didn't eat anything.

    I have a bit of a disclaimer here: I don't really like meat of any kind too much. I would probably be mostly vegetarian if it wasn't for my anemia and having to keep it check. I tend to only eat meat during one meal of the day. The rest of the day I gladly eat veggies and fruit. 
    NYCBruinsnippet17
  • AlexisA01AlexisA01 Dubai, my royal playground. member
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    People saying they've "never" had a vegan entree are cracking me up. You've never had pasta with a non-meat sauce? Vegetable fried-rice? I mean, I'm sure everyone on this earth has had a vegan entree--the only difference is they didn't realize it, or that no one presented it as such. 

    Also, just a fun fact for anyone wondering what's "in" those vegan meatballs, or what-have-you--chances are there are some grains, and perhaps even beets! I get these amazing "beet-ball parm" sandwiches from my favorite vegan vendor, and they are so damn good. I wouldn't say that I can't tell they're not made of meat--they are definitely less "meaty"--but they are a pretty darn good imitation, texture-wise, and they are delicious in their own right.

    When I was younger, I would have made a big old stink about faux dairy vegan stuff--I'm from Wisconsin and dammit, we believe in cream! (or something). Until one day my co-worker said, "Hey, want an ice cream sandwich?" I accepted, loved it, and then she mentioned offhand that they were nondairy. I had to change my tune a bit after that, because I would not have known for a second. I thought they were frozen yogurt, so I could tell they weren't full-fat cream, but evidently my taste buds couldn't tell the difference between skim milk and tofu, so...I chilled out a bit after that.
    Whenever I have vegetable friend rice it has eggs in. Or my pasta with no meat is a cream based sauce. 

    Live fast, die young. Bad Girls do it well. Suki Zuki.

  • However, I will admit that I don't love Vegan Cheese.  It's just not that good.

    But either is low fat or fat free cheese.

    This has nothing to do with the actual topic, but I just wanted to put that out there.
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    PrettyGirlLosthanckypanky
  • Put an avocado on anything, and I'm pretty sure I'll eat it.
    jdluvr06theartistformerlyknownascupcait927Kauris
  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost A Land Filled with Unicorns and Cat Hair member
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    People saying they've "never" had a vegan entree are cracking me up. You've never had pasta with a non-meat sauce?   There are eggs in pasta dough.  Vegetable fried-rice? There are scrambled eggs in fried rice, even the veggie kind I have had.  I mean, I'm sure everyone on this earth has had a vegan entree--the only difference is they didn't realize it, or that no one presented it as such. Vegan means no animal products- no milk, cheese, eggs, etc.  I have almost w/o a doubt NEVER had a dish that was Vegan.  I love milk, eggs, cheese, etc.

    Also, just a fun fact for anyone wondering what's "in" those vegan meatballs, or what-have-you--chances are there are some grains, and perhaps even beets! I get these amazing "beet-ball parm" sandwiches from my favorite vegan vendor, and they are so damn good. I wouldn't say that I can't tell they're not made of meat--they are definitely less "meaty"--but they are a pretty darn good imitation, texture-wise, and they are delicious in their own right.

    When I was younger, I would have made a big old stink about faux dairy vegan stuff--I'm from Wisconsin and dammit, we believe in cream! (or something). Until one day my co-worker said, "Hey, want an ice cream sandwich?" I accepted, loved it, and then she mentioned offhand that they were nondairy. I had to change my tune a bit after that, because I would not have known for a second. I thought they were frozen yogurt, so I could tell they weren't full-fat cream, but evidently my taste buds couldn't tell the difference between skim milk and tofu, so...I chilled out a bit after that.


    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost A Land Filled with Unicorns and Cat Hair member
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    jdluvr06 said:
    I don't understand why people feel they need to have meat at every meal anyway. I mean I get liking the flavor but, for example, my great grandmother doesn't think it counts as a meal unless there is some sort of meat included. She got all bent out of shape once saying she had nothing to feed me because she made pork chops one nice for dinner when we were over there. I ate a ton of sides and dessert and left her house feely overly stuffed but in her mind because I didn't eat the meat I didn't eat anything.

    I have a bit of a disclaimer here: I don't really like meat of any kind too much. I would probably be mostly vegetarian if it wasn't for my anemia and having to keep it check. I tend to only eat meat during one meal of the day. The rest of the day I gladly eat veggies and fruit. 
    A Vegan diet is more than just no meat- it's no animal products at all.  No milk, cheese, eggs, fish oil, etc.  With the number of dairy lovers out there, I can see why ppl would be put off by a Vegan dish.

    HOWEVER, I believe that a food allergy or dietary restriction aside, you shouldn't knock something unless you try it, and especially at a wedding where the hosts have a moral/ethical belief against eating animals, you should suck it up and be a gracious guest.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


    cupcait927Kauris
  • VulgarGirlVulgarGirl Desert Oasis member
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    Oreos @prettygirllost, oreos are vegan. See, you've had vegan food. Also I looked up Barilla pasta's ingredient list (because it was the first brand of pasta) and it looks vegan to me. No eggs or dairy listed.
    sofakingmadtheartistformerlyknownascupcait927luckysnorkel
  • It's rude to not serve a vegetarian option to vegetarians because they do not eat meat. It's not rude to serve vegan choices to omnivores because they do eat vegan food. You can say you don't eat vegan food all you want but it's not true - you just eat them in combination with animal based foods.
    Most vegan dishes offered to me though are not dishes I would eat, re: list provided earlier in this thread as examples. Yes, I do eat pasta with marinara, but I doubt that is what a vegan is planning on offering as one of their choices. 

    Off topic question to vegans specifically because this does baffle me. Why if you don't eat meat or dairy, especially for ethical reasons, do you manipulate some of your food to look like meat/dairy products? Hamburgers, meatballs, ice cream? Why do you want it to have the taste and texture of that product if you are so opposed to it? This is a serious question, not meant to be snarky or rude. I'm really curious and would love to know your reasons. 
  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost A Land Filled with Unicorns and Cat Hair member
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    edited June 2014
    Most dried pasta does not have eggs in it.



    MagicInk said:
    Oreos @prettygirllost, oreos are vegan. See, you've had vegan food. Also I looked up Barilla pasta's ingredient list (because it was the first brand of pasta) and it looks vegan to me. No eggs or dairy listed.
    Lol, that's not real pasta.  We make ours from scratch or I buy the scratch made from an Italian grocery store;-)

    You got me on Oreos, yay!!!  I do love those, however I only have them with milk. . . they are so rich I need to wash them down with something!  I tried Scotch once and I am ashamed to admit it was kinda gross.

    ETA: How the fuck are these companies making pasta dough w/o eggs? Vegetable oil?

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost A Land Filled with Unicorns and Cat Hair member
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    BTW I have yet to go to a food truck reception and I'm sad about that.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


    hanckypankyashley8918
  • @prettylostgirl that is true. I guess I just have trouble seeing what the big deal is for some people because I don't eat a lot of animal products. I don't like eggs and I only use milk occasionally. Also not the biggest fan of cheese. I know I know I'm weird.
  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost A Land Filled with Unicorns and Cat Hair member
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    jdluvr06 said:
    @prettylostgirl that is true. I guess I just have trouble seeing what the big deal is for some people because I don't eat a lot of animal products. I don't like eggs and I only use milk occasionally. Also not the biggest fan of cheese. I know I know I'm weird.
    Yeah I don't see why one meal would cause such gnashing of teeth and rending or garments.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


    hanckypankyjdluvr06
  • jenajjthrjenajjthr member
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    edited June 2014
    IT'S ONE MEAL.

    ONE MEAL.


    SITB
    I could say the same to vegans, but I don't.  
    RebeccaB88
  • jenajjthr said:
    It's rude to not serve a vegetarian option to vegetarians because they do not eat meat. It's not rude to serve vegan choices to omnivores because they do eat vegan food. You can say you don't eat vegan food all you want but it's not true - you just eat them in combination with animal based foods.
    Most vegan dishes offered to me though are not dishes I would eat, re: list provided earlier in this thread as examples. Yes, I do eat pasta with marinara, but I doubt that is what a vegan is planning on offering as one of their choices. 

    Off topic question to vegans specifically because this does baffle me. Why if you don't eat meat or dairy, especially for ethical reasons, do you manipulate some of your food to look like meat/dairy products? Hamburgers, meatballs, ice cream? Why do you want it to have the taste and texture of that product if you are so opposed to it? This is a serious question, not meant to be snarky or rude. I'm really curious and would love to know your reasons. 
    because being opposed to the absolutely horrific way a living, breathing, feeling creature was treated to make a product absolutely means we can't acknowledge that said products are delicious. and we can't recreate that product for our own guilt-free, cruelty-free enjoyment. 
    pinkshorts27ashley8918
  • VulgarGirlVulgarGirl Desert Oasis member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Most dried pasta does not have eggs in it.



    MagicInk said:
    Oreos @prettygirllost, oreos are vegan. See, you've had vegan food. Also I looked up Barilla pasta's ingredient list (because it was the first brand of pasta) and it looks vegan to me. No eggs or dairy listed.
    Lol, that's not real pasta.  We make ours from scratch or I buy the scratch made from an Italian grocery store;-)

    You got me on Oreos, yay!!!  I do love those, however I only have them with milk. . . they are so rich I need to wash them down with something!  I tried Scotch once and I am ashamed to admit it was kinda gross.

    ETA: How the fuck are these companies making pasta dough w/o eggs? Vegetable oil?
    Oh hell, if I boil dry pasta I consider that more then enough cooking. None of this fancy making it yourself business. 

    Did you...did you dunk the Oreos in the Scotch? I'm picturing that way for some reason. But...you wouldn't ruin scotch/oreos like that...right?

    This is a shot of their ingredients. I dunno what each thing is to be honest. Also I didn't take this picture. Google gave it to me.

    image
  • jenajjthr said:
    IT'S ONE MEAL.

    ONE MEAL.


    SITB
    I could say the same to vegans, but I don't.  
    Bless your heart.
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