I Messed Up Big Time...this could be the end.

Sammyantha13

This is hard for me to talk about on here.  I think I might have ended my relationship tonight.  This is going to be a long one.  

Background: FI and I have been together for over 6 years.  First two years were the dandy honeymoon phase.  In the third year my dad died and I found out about FI's excessive pornography use at the same time (I didn't really know all the details about it but FI considered it to be an addiction and sought counseling, etc.).  So that really hurt me and for the next three years we went through ups and downs where he would say it was improving, and it turned out it wasn't.  The lying really made it hard for me to trust him.  At one point we were both so frustrated with each other that he decided he wanted to take a break (for a month)...I later found out that before he even decided on the break he was already asking out a girl in one of his classes that he had been buddying up to.  Nothing happened between them, but also didn't help my trust.  There were other minor examples where he compromised my trust, though not all worth mentioning now.  Through it all we decided it was still worth it to stay together, and we have been genuinely happy.  But a lot of my trust issues have followed us along, as is to be expected--say my therapists.  

Finally about a year ago things actually did start improving.  He stopped lying to me about his use and we settled upon two conditions: one, that his pornography use won't get in the way of our sex life as it was previously, and two, that he wouldn't do it while we are both at home together (when I'm asleep, etc.)  Once I got over my fundamental issues with porn I tried suggesting to him a few times that we look at it together, as a way of spicing up our sex life, but he says that given our history with it, it just makes him too uncomfortable.  Now, sometimes I start feeling insecure?...uneasy?....if we haven't had sex for a few weeks and I'll start wondering if it's because he's only looking at porn again.  And then we talk about it and he reassures me that's not the case and everything goes back to being fine. 

In August his dad told us about how he was having an affair on his mom.  The whole thing has messed with me, more than I should've let it.  I know FI and his dad are not the same person, but they're very similar.  His mom gave me too many details about how it happened and what happened.  And it just made me think back to when he was pursuing another girl while we were together.  Sigh.  

So for the past 10 days things have been pretty rocky.  He's been really mean, snapping at me over the littlest things.  (Last week he wanted help cutting his hair, then blew up on me for 'messing it up', even though it turned out fine.)  He's been very short with me, giving me one word responses when I ask about his day when usually he tells me everything as soon as he gets home.  He is usually very affectionate and hasn't been...the dogs have been getting more affection than me.  He has been staying late at work like an extra hour every day this week and last week.  And even still, he's been buying things for me for no reason, even though he knows we are saving for the wedding.  (Yes, including the silverware from last week.)  So weird.  All of these things together have just been putting me on the edge.  Not all infidelity thoughts, just a general anxiousness about why he's acting weird.  Of course he says it's all just random coincidences that I pieced together in my head.  

As he was leaving for work this morning he said "Oh yeah, I'll be home late tonight, I have a hunter safety course." and promptly walked out the door.  I thought it was strange that he didn't mention it sooner.  Tonight I was deleting my emails from the past month and saw one from the base event coordinator, and sure enough, it mentioned the safety course.  But the email said it starts Oct.1 and goes through the 3.  I realized today was Sept. 30 and immediately freaked.  It was so stupid of me, but it was a knee-jerk reaction.  I was like, so upset that this was just another THING that has been adding to my anxiety of why he's been acting so weird the past two weeks.  I drove to base and his car was outside of his office, light was on in his office.  (I should've just driven away.)  I went in and asked him right away about the class, which was supposed to be going on at that moment.  He promptly showed me paperwork that he had collected from it, including today's date on it and the start time of the class.  That was when I knew I was in deep shit.  

So of course he is livid that I showed up at his office.  I tried to explain all of my reasonings, the things I mentioned above contributing to my anxiety, but even I know I sounded dumb.  He says I have no trust in him and he doesn't want to live like that (rightfully so).  My rebuttal is that with his history of lying to me about things, I am still having issues sometimes, especially since it's only been the past year that things have actually improved.  He says I've had long enough to get over it.  He said emotionally he wants to stay together, but logistically he feels like we should break up.  Except he contradicted himself later when he said that his emotions are telling him he wants to break up but he's not going to make a decision when he's emotional.  So I don't know what's going on.

I guess I have to give him his space to decide what he wants to do.  I was 100% wrong in what I did and I know that, and I can't plead with him to try to understand my POV because it's dumb anyway.  I thought I was justified in going there but I wasn't.  I don't know if I can ask him for another chance since he believes that I've had long enough to figure out the trust issues.  Oh, and our wedding is in THREE WEEKS.  He went to bed and I just cried in my car for two hours because I feel like I've destroyed us.  Hindsight is 20/20.  I don't know what to do.  You can tell me I was wrong if you'd like, but I already know I was.

hlvonb

Sammyantha13 said:

This is hard for me to talk about on here.  I think I might have ended my relationship tonight.  This is going to be a long one.  

Background: FI and I have been together for over 6 years.  First two years were the dandy honeymoon phase.  In the third year my dad died and I found out about FI's excessive pornography use at the same time (I didn't really know all the details about it but FI considered it to be an addiction and sought counseling, etc.).  So that really hurt me and for the next three years we went through ups and downs where he would say it was improving, and it turned out it wasn't.  The lying really made it hard for me to trust him.  At one point we were both so frustrated with each other that he decided he wanted to take a break (for a month)...I later found out that before he even decided on the break he was already asking out a girl in one of his classes that he had been buddying up to.  Nothing happened between them, but also didn't help my trust.  There were other minor examples where he compromised my trust, though not all worth mentioning now.  Through it all we decided it was still worth it to stay together, and we have been genuinely happy.  But a lot of my trust issues have followed us along, as is to be expected--say my therapists.  

Finally about a year ago things actually did start improving.  He stopped lying to me about his use and we settled upon two conditions: one, that his pornography use won't get in the way of our sex life as it was previously, and two, that he wouldn't do it while we are both at home together (when I'm asleep, etc.)  Once I got over my fundamental issues with porn I tried suggesting to him a few times that we look at it together, as a way of spicing up our sex life, but he says that given our history with it, it just makes him too uncomfortable.  Now, sometimes I start feeling insecure?...uneasy?....if we haven't had sex for a few weeks and I'll start wondering if it's because he's only looking at porn again.  And then we talk about it and he reassures me that's not the case and everything goes back to being fine. 

In August his dad told us about how he was having an affair on his mom.  The whole thing has messed with me, more than I should've let it.  I know FI and his dad are not the same person, but they're very similar.  His mom gave me too many details about how it happened and what happened.  And it just made me think back to when he was pursuing another girl while we were together.  Sigh.  

So for the past 10 days things have been pretty rocky.  He's been really mean, snapping at me over the littlest things.  (Last week he wanted help cutting his hair, then blew up on me for 'messing it up', even though it turned out fine.)  He's been very short with me, giving me one word responses when I ask about his day when usually he tells me everything as soon as he gets home.  He is usually very affectionate and hasn't been...the dogs have been getting more affection than me.  He has been staying late at work like an extra hour every day this week and last week.  And even still, he's been buying things for me for no reason, even though he knows we are saving for the wedding.  (Yes, including the silverware from last week.)  So weird.  All of these things together have just been putting me on the edge.  Not all infidelity thoughts, just a general anxiousness about why he's acting weird.  Of course he says it's all just random coincidences that I pieced together in my head.  

As he was leaving for work this morning he said "Oh yeah, I'll be home late tonight, I have a hunter safety course." and promptly walked out the door.  I thought it was strange that he didn't mention it sooner.  Tonight I was deleting my emails from the past month and saw one from the base event coordinator, and sure enough, it mentioned the safety course.  But the email said it starts Oct.1 and goes through the 3.  I realized today was Sept. 30 and immediately freaked.  It was so stupid of me, but it was a knee-jerk reaction.  I was like, so upset that this was just another THING that has been adding to my anxiety of why he's been acting so weird the past two weeks.  I drove to base and his car was outside of his office, light was on in his office.  (I should've just driven away.)  I went in and asked him right away about the class, which was supposed to be going on at that moment.  He promptly showed me paperwork that he had collected from it, including today's date on it and the start time of the class.  That was when I knew I was in deep shit.  

So of course he is livid that I showed up at his office.  I tried to explain all of my reasonings, the things I mentioned above contributing to my anxiety, but even I know I sounded dumb.  He says I have no trust in him and he doesn't want to live like that (rightfully so).  My rebuttal is that with his history of lying to me about things, I am still having issues sometimes, especially since it's only been the past year that things have actually improved.  He says I've had long enough to get over it.  He said emotionally he wants to stay together, but logistically he feels like we should break up.  Except he contradicted himself later when he said that his emotions are telling him he wants to break up but he's not going to make a decision when he's emotional.  So I don't know what's going on.

I guess I have to give him his space to decide what he wants to do.  I was 100% wrong in what I did and I know that, and I can't plead with him to try to understand my POV because it's dumb anyway.  I thought I was justified in going there but I wasn't.  I don't know if I can ask him for another chance since he believes that I've had long enough to figure out the trust issues.  Oh, and our wedding is in THREE WEEKS.  He went to bed and I just cried in my car for two hours because I feel like I've destroyed us.  Hindsight is 20/20.  I don't know what to do.  You can tell me I was wrong if you'd like, but I already know I was.

Trust is a major part of a healthy relationship and it's clear to me that the trust isn't there. It also (in my opinion) doesn't sound like you two have a healthy relationship. I would leave it alone for the rest of the night and talk about it tomorrow. You may have to face the fact that you two are not meant to be together (but that's something you and him have to decide) but ultimately it's yours and his choice. 

Personally, I don't think you're ready to be in a relationship since his father's actions effected you as much as they did. I think you have more healing and overcoming your trust issues before being ready to be in a relationship.  TO CLARIFY: I am not saying you should not have been effected by his dad's actions (if my husband's father did that I would be effected because I have known him for so long but it wouldn't make me question my husband - even though he and his father are similar in some ways) but I think you were too effected and it unfairly made you question your FI. You shouldn't question your FI on the actions of someone else (unless your FI was involved with the incident somehow which doesn't seem to be the case).

Good luck

Keep us updated!

larrygaga

Whatever you decide we are always here for you!

LondonLisa

That is hard, but given the history of broken trust, I am not surprised that you had that reaction. 

I cannot make the call one way or the other about what to do with your relationship, but it raised a red flag for me when he said that a year was long enough to rebuild trust and you should be over it. A partner should never be so dismissive of your feelings even if they were offbase. You did have a reason to doubt him (his past).

Rebuilding trust takes a long time and requires a lot of commitment and understanding on both parties.

Also, in a marriage, you will go through MUCH rockier situations than this. If he is doubting it now, just wait until the really big things happen and you have to fight it out together. 

If I were in your shoes, I would cancel the wedding and start couples therapy. Fear of wasting a deposit is the silliest reason to go through with a wedding. 

I'm jumping in on @larrygaga 's we'll be here for you/hug to you

raissyrais

With all that history I'm surprised you're still in this relationship. Trust is WAY TOO IMPORTANT to take something like marriage lightly. It all seems irreparable to me. The problem obviously is not you messing up on that thing. You just can't help it because he betrayed you way too many times. See what's going on here? I'm sorry I'm going to be blunt: without proper trust your relationship is doomed. Are you sure you want to enter marriage and keep on not trusting him (for whatever reasons) and have him blow up and turn it all on you like he did in the past? You can go ahead and get married and keep on having those problems. Or you can both take a healthy break from it all and each go into counselling. Also, couple's counselling could help too. Nothing good ever comes out of porn addiction. Nothing. And sometimes, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. We are here if you need to vent/talk etc. It's very hard, but I would leave cause I know I deserve a healthier relationship with someone who won't give me the trust creeps.

l9i

There seems to be some heavy trust issues in your relationship. IMO these need to be worked out before marriage. Do I think you can work through this current issue, yes. Do I think you should postpone the wedding until you guys get some therapy, probably. It is very important to resolve these issues prior to your lifetime commitment. Marriage is not a good method for automatically solving problems. I appears you both have overcome previous issues and hopefully you can work through this - *hugs*

esstee33

 

abbyj700

Wow, there's a lot going on with this one.

A few points. 

-He broke your trust, and you both need to be going to counseling TOGETHER to work through this issue as you are obviously still having large trust issues with him.

-You need to postpone the wedding until you figure this out. Throwing a wedding in to this mix is not and will not help.

-Please be more considerate of what he is going through. If his fathers affair had this much of a reaction from you- can you imagine how he feels? This is his DAD. This is the marriage he's seen as an example of how to live for YEARS. Don't just think about how it affects you - realize his odd actions may be a reflection of how such a big change affects him.

-He's an addict. No addiction is easy. He should be constantly working to combat this issue -attending meetings, seeing a therapist, talking to you. And...addicts aren't always easy to date. Not to say they are bad people. They have a disease. And it's your decision whether you stand by and be there for that illness in good times and bad. I had a very successful relationship with a man who was an addict in recovery. The ending of our relationship had nothing to do with his addiction issues. But that is something every person has to decide they can have as a part of their life.

bahamabride2015

You probably already know this in your heart but you need to trust your gut.  When something feels wrong, although it isn't always what you suspected, it is generally wise to trust yourself.  

We've all been in one of those relationships that makes you feel crazy, irrational, and in the wrong.  I can tell you from experience, as someone who finally pieced everything together and got to the bottom of it. If you're feeling this way, there is 1000% a reason.  You are not crazy.

IMathlete

I believe you lack the self-esteem to see that he has some culpability in this relationship. Sure, a lack of trust is detrimental to a relationship, but the partner who broke the trust has to actually DO WORK to restore it. It doesn't magically appear. Do not shift the blame entirely to yourself.

I had an ex who had the same problems with porn addictions, and eventually it landed him in bed with someone else. I wasn't confident enough to leave at the time, but a few months later I started working on myself and rebuilding my self-worth. However, he hadn't done the work to regain my trust, so when I questioned him, he would get defensive and angry. I did not say, oh, I'm sorry, it's my fault I have trust issues. Instead, I said, you created this, and you've done nothing to improve the condition of our relationship. We broke up, and I walked away guilt-free.

Do some soul-searching. This is not the time for a wedding.

STARMOON44

I don't know you at all, and I'm 100% sure you're worth better than a man who cheated on you and lied about it for years. Being with him is turning you into someone you don't like. Be glad he's gone. Give him space outside you home. Change the locks. Get a friend to help cancel the wedding.

Or, marry him and start crying again in 2 years when you're pregnant and so's his girlfriend.

wandajune6

I'm so sorry that this is happening to you.

What bothered me the most about the post is that you take full responsibility for what happened. Sure, you might have made a bold move, but it was a response to a bad situation.

Last night's episode could have been prevented if you both had more open communication. You can't trust him if you don't know what he's doing or how he's processing things. Given his past indiscretions, he owes you that. At the same time, you owe him a bit of space to work through issues on his own.

You worry that you inadvertently ended your relationship last night. I'd ask you to be honest with yourself instead- do you want to be married to this man? Not the man from the honeymoon phase but the man you don't trust? The man who is defensive about everything? The man who makes you feel guilty and awful about sharing your feelings?

Getting married isn't going to make any of these feelings or issues go away. It just makes it harder to exit. Please think carefully about your next steps. We're all here for you!

southernbelle0915

Sammyantha13 said:

My rebuttal is that with his history of lying to me about things, I am still having issues sometimes, especially since it's only been the past year that things have actually improved.  He says I've had long enough to get over it.  He said emotionally he wants to stay together, but logistically he feels like we should break up.

I don't know if I can ask him for another chance since he believes that I've had long enough to figure out the trust issues.  Oh, and our wedding is in THREE WEEKS.  He went to bed and I just cried in my car for two hours because I feel like I've destroyed us.

It sounds like this is a very unhealthy relationship. He has lied to you constantly over the years and you've never really resolved your trust issues. It sounds like he hasn't taken much responsibility for the trust issues HE created (ANYONE would have trust issues after someone constantly lying), worked at all to help you resolve them and has basically been like "Your trust issues, your problem. Figure it out." It's a major red flag that "he says [you've] had long enough to get over it." Are you fucking kidding me?

He created a bad situation and has done nothing meaningful to fix it. You still have trust issues (SURPRISE!) and he has mind-fucked you into believing this is your fault. This is text book emotional abuse. Is this how he's going to handle issues he creates in the future? Probably. Why would he change if you stay with him? Ask yourself if that's what you want.

I cannot imagine how difficult it would be to postpone the wedding, but I would strongly urge you to do it. However difficult it will be to do this, it's not more difficult than it would be to divorce if it came to that. You both need to work out your issues with a third party. Therapy isn't a bad thing. It's something people do when they're committed to fixing a problem. You need that commitment from him and from yourself.

You should enter into a marriage with peace of mind feeling 100% confident in your relationship. You're entering anxious, distrusting, and not confident things will work out. That's no way to enter a marriage. I'm so sorry. We are here for you.

southernbelle0915

It also sounds to me like he doesn't really want to get married but he's too chicken shit to say it so he's using this as an excuse to make the break up your fault. 

Don't marry someone who manipulates you into feeling like a crazy person and blames you for everything. 

flyingfoxes

Honestly I don't think you were wrong to go there.  Like PPs have said, he hasn't done much to regain your trust, and with him acting "off" - I can totally understand why you were suspicious.

 

I also agree with PPs that now isn't the time to get married. 

lacqueredlover

Honestly it doesn't sound to me like either of you are ready to get married.  I would highly recommend you going to couples counseling together ASAP.  I'm so sorry you have to go through this but without trust, you don't have anything and you both don't sound ready to take this next step.  Good luck!

novella1186

Stop saying that what you did was dumb. It genuinely made me sad to read how hard you're being on yourself for a situation that you did NOT independently create or cause. From what you said, he does not consider your emotional well-being at all, and to tell you that you've had enough time to "get over it" is disgusting to me. He should be there for you. He should be working to "get over it" WITH you. It's not YOUR issue, it's BOTH of your issue, because he caused it with his poor choices and shitty behavior. One year is not enough time to erase 5 years of problems prior to that. 

I can't stress enough how much this is not your fault. I agree with PPs, that you absolutely should not go through with this wedding right now. He's being snappy, not talking to you about things, making you feel horrible, and blaming his issues on you. Is that something you want to live with every day for the rest of your life? Postpone the wedding and see if you can work through this WITH him. If he's not willing to hold himself accountable and do what it takes to re-build your trust, then there's your answer. 

You do not want a life-time of issues, no trust, misery, always questioning yourself, etc. You deserve so much better than that. A broken engagement would be extremely hard if it comes to that, but a broken marriage is so much worse, especially if there's kids involved by then. 

jackannlu

I agree with PP in that you have major trust issues in your relationship that need to be addressed and resolved BEFORE you get married. If this truly is the end of your relationship, I think you should be ok with that after everything you went through in 6 years. The way your feeling (anxious, insecure, uneasy) isn't normal in a healthy relationship and I can only assume you don't want to go through life feeling like that. I would say go with your gut feeling.

However, if you guys do decide to stay together, I would strongly suggest postponing the wedding and going to couples counseling to deal with your trust issues and his addiction.

I'm sorry you're going through this and hope everything works out for the best. Good luck!

lurkergirl

Oh, honey.  First, {HUGS}  I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.

Have you re-read your post?  Do you realize that you are placing all this blame and stress on yourself when he's the one who's wrong?  Ditto novella in that it saddened me to see you call yourself dumb and say that you were in the wrong.  You are not dumb or wrong.  If you were, you wouldn't be here asking about this--your instinct KNOWS something is wrong!

I think abusive is probably too strong of a word, but he is 100% being incredibly manipulative.  It is tearing you down to the point that your self-esteem has been weakened. 

After all that...is this really who you want to marry?

Sammyantha13

Thanks for the support, everyone.  Honestly I thought a lot of you would take his side, so I'm glad to hear that my thoughts are not completely uncalled-for.  

Now, I do feel like I need to explain some more.  I know that he is to blame for creating the trust issues in the first place, but I do see how I am to blame for not moving on from the past.

Some of you feel like he hasn't done anything to rebuild the trust, and that's not true.  Around the time he started counseling, he asked me to put accountability software on his electronic devices.  This helped short-term, but in the end just created more frustration because he would waver back and forth on whether or not he wanted it there, and then I would see when he would get around the filter and so I would question him about it, etc.  We had to step back and reassess, and realize that him trying to quit cold turkey wouldn't work.  And I shouldn't have expected him to do that anyhow.  

So now the filters are gone and like I said, for the past year he has been very accountable and whenever I have a question he hears me out.  I really do trust that he's telling me the truth.  I have no issue with the porn use, EXCEPT for when I feel like he's choosing it over me.  Which (here comes the honesty), probably happens about once a month.  I'll ask him about it and it usually leads to argument about why I'm asking the same thing over and over on a monthly basis.  I don't know, I can't help it....when we haven't had sex for awhile that's where my mind automatically goes.  Now that you know that I am starting these arguments about once a month, it may change your perception.  

FI has never given me a straight reason to think that he's cheated on me, apart from when he was pursuing that girl while we were together.  (Which he has repented on and said that was an immature mistake.)  So I'm not really sure where my insecurities stem from with that.  I think I just know a lot of people who have dealt with infidelity in their relationships and it freaks me out.

I am going to counseling on my own, and last week we discussed counseling and FI said he would go with me, even though he doesn't think it helps much.  (He didn't get much out of it when he went for the porn issues, since his counselor was of the opinion that what he was doing was totally normal and acceptable.)  Except last night after what happened, he changed his mind and thinks we are too young to need counseling.  His logic is: "If we start counseling now, what does that say about how the rest of our marriage will go?"  I said, "Umm, if we start counseling NOW for an issue that's occurring NOW, it's to stop us from having to go in the future."

The problem just comes down to our differing viewpoints on "how long" it should take to get over this.  I feel like since he's really only been accountable for the past year, I've only had a year to start the healing process (still doesn't excuse my monthly insecurity about it).  But his view is that I've known about the issue for four years, so I have had all that time to work on getting over it.  I tell him that I've talked to other people about it and they agree that you can't put a time frame on a healing process, and his response is that if he talked to any of this other porn-viewing guy friends about it they would say he's been very reasonable in putting up with my issues about it, and they would be getting fed up with me too.  

I understand how this is frustrating to him because he doesn't want to have the same redundant argument every month for the rest of his life.  I know that I can completely get over this, he's just fed up with giving me the time to do it.  I feel like things have improved (I mean, in the thick of it all, we were fighting on a multiple-times-a-week-basis, because I knew when he was lying to me)...but he doesn't see any improvement over the past few years.  

I have an appt with my counselor on Friday and I'll talk to her about getting both of us in there.  If it's not too late.  For now I am just waiting on my verdict.  

gladyscf

First, he should have been seeing a therapist who specializes in porn addiction. NOT someone who doesn't.

Second, seriously? He thinks the opinions of his "other porn-viewing guy friends" should be reliable?

I'm sure he doesn't want to have the same argument every month but guess what...he's the reason that argument exists. 

There's no time frame for healing. Period. You may just reach a point where you don't think you can heal any further. 

lurkergirl

Sammyantha13 said:

Thanks for the support, everyone.  Honestly I thought a lot of you would take his side, so I'm glad to hear that my thoughts are not completely uncalled-for.  

Now, I do feel like I need to explain some more.  I know that he is to blame for creating the trust issues in the first place, but I do see how I am to blame for not moving on from the past.

Some of you feel like he hasn't done anything to rebuild the trust, and that's not true.  Around the time he started counseling, he asked me to put accountability software on his electronic devices.  This helped short-term, but in the end just created more frustration because he would waver back and forth on whether or not he wanted it there, and then I would see when he would get around the filter and so I would question him about it, etc.  We had to step back and reassess, and realize that him trying to quit cold turkey wouldn't work.  And I shouldn't have expected him to do that anyhow.  

So now the filters are gone and like I said, for the past year he has been very accountable and whenever I have a question he hears me out.  I really do trust that he's telling me the truth.  I have no issue with the porn use, EXCEPT for when I feel like he's choosing it over me.  Which (here comes the honesty), probably happens about once a month.  I'll ask him about it and it usually leads to argument about why I'm asking the same thing over and over on a monthly basis.  I don't know, I can't help it....when we haven't had sex for awhile that's where my mind automatically goes.  Now that you know that I am starting these arguments about once a month, it may change your perception.  

FI has never given me a straight reason to think that he's cheated on me, apart from when he was pursuing that girl while we were together.  (Which he has repented on and said that was an immature mistake.)  So I'm not really sure where my insecurities stem from with that.  I think I just know a lot of people who have dealt with infidelity in their relationships and it freaks me out.

I am going to counseling on my own, and last week we discussed counseling and FI said he would go with me, even though he doesn't think it helps much.  (He didn't get much out of it when he went for the porn issues, since his counselor was of the opinion that what he was doing was totally normal and acceptable.)  Except last night after what happened, he changed his mind and thinks we are too young to need counseling.  His logic is: "If we start counseling now, what does that say about how the rest of our marriage will go?"  I said, "Umm, if we start counseling NOW for an issue that's occurring NOW, it's to stop us from having to go in the future."

The problem just comes down to our differing viewpoints on "how long" it should take to get over this.  I feel like since he's really only been accountable for the past year, I've only had a year to start the healing process (still doesn't excuse my monthly insecurity about it).  But his view is that I've known about the issue for four years, so I have had all that time to work on getting over it.  I tell him that I've talked to other people about it and they agree that you can't put a time frame on a healing process, and his response is that if he talked to any of this other porn-viewing guy friends about it they would say he's been very reasonable in putting up with my issues about it, and they would be getting fed up with me too.  

I understand how this is frustrating to him because he doesn't want to have the same redundant argument every month for the rest of his life.  I know that I can completely get over this, he's just fed up with giving me the time to do it.  I feel like things have improved (I mean, in the thick of it all, we were fighting on a multiple-times-a-week-basis, because I knew when he was lying to me)...but he doesn't see any improvement over the past few years.  

I have an appt with my counselor on Friday and I'll talk to her about getting both of us in there.  If it's not too late.  For now I am just waiting on my verdict.  

Well, we know how well the accountability stuff works.  Just ask Doey.

I'm sorry, but this post does nothing to change my mind about my first response.  If anything, it further reinnforces it.

Is your therapist qualified to work with y'all on your relationship?  I'm just thinking it might be good to go to someone different, unbiased, who specializes in couples' counseling.

STARMOON44

Yeah your second post doesn't change my opinion at all. He's a cheating lying jerk. You don't trust him. Marrying him = stupid.

beethery

If he doesn't want to have the same redundant argument every month about a cause-and-effect thing, y'all don't need to keep going around in this circle.

southernbelle0915

Sammyantha13 said:

Thanks for the support, everyone.  Honestly I thought a lot of you would take his side, so I'm glad to hear that my thoughts are not completely uncalled-for.  

Now, I do feel like I need to explain some more.  I know that he is to blame for creating the trust issues in the first place, but I do see how I am to blame for not moving on from the past. I would phrase this differently: you should either feel at peace and 100% confident in your relationship or you should leave. 

Some of you feel like he hasn't done anything to rebuild the trust, and that's not true.  Around the time he started counseling, he asked me to put accountability software on his electronic devices. Asking you to be his babysitter puts the onus on YOU which isn't fair. This helped short-term, but in the end just created more frustration because he would waver back and forth on whether or not he wanted it there, and then I would see when he would get around the filter and so I would question him about it, etc.  We had to step back and reassess, and realize that him trying to quit cold turkey wouldn't work.  And I shouldn't have expected him to do that anyhow.  

So now the filters are gone and like I said, for the past year he has been very accountable and whenever I have a question he hears me out.  I really do trust that he's telling me the truth.  I have no issue with the porn use, EXCEPT for when I feel like he's choosing it over me.  Which (here comes the honesty), probably happens about once a month.  I'll ask him about it and it usually leads to argument about why I'm asking the same thing over and over on a monthly basis.  I don't know, I can't help it....when we haven't had sex for awhile that's where my mind automatically goes.  Now that you know that I am starting these arguments about once a month, it may change your perception.  So obviously you don't feel 100% confident or resolved about this. You're allowed to communicate your feelings to your SO... His reaction shouldn't be "*eyeroll* this again...JFC." It should be "I'm sorry you're feeling this way again. Let's work through it."

FI has never given me a straight reason to think that he's cheated on me, apart from when he was pursuing that girl while we were together.  (Which he has repented on and said that was an immature mistake.)  So I'm not really sure where my insecurities stem from with that.  I think I just know a lot of people who have dealt with infidelity in their relationships and it freaks me out. Forget other people. Do you think HE might cheat on you? If your mind even TOUCHED "maybe" then you have unresolved trust issues. If DH had pursued someone else when we were together, you fucking bet I'd have trust issues. And I would have either 1) worked them out or 2) not married him. Both isn't a good option.

I am going to counseling on my own, and last week we discussed counseling and FI said he would go with me, even though he doesn't think it helps much.  (He didn't get much out of it when he went for the porn issues, since his counselor was of the opinion that what he was doing was totally normal and acceptable.)  Except last night after what happened, he changed his mind and thinks we are too young to need counseling.  His logic is: "If we start counseling now, what does that say about how the rest of our marriage will go?"  I said, "Umm, if we start counseling NOW for an issue that's occurring NOW, it's to stop us from having to go in the future." "Too young to need counseling" is stupid. IMHO he's basically saying "we have too many problems to get married."

The problem just comes down to our differing viewpoints on "how long" it should take to get over this. No. The problem comes down to the fact that the two of you haven't worked out your issues. You obviously haven't been able to do it on your own. Counseling would help, but he refuses. So there you are. I feel like since he's really only been accountable for the past year, I've only had a year to start the healing process (still doesn't excuse my monthly insecurity about it).  But his view is that I've known about the issue for four years, so I have had all that time to work on getting over it.  I tell him that I've talked to other people about it and they agree that you can't put a time frame on a healing process, and his response is that if he talked to any of this other porn-viewing guy friends about it they would say he's been very reasonable in putting up with my issues about it, and they would be getting fed up with me too.  Bantering of "1 year this" "4 years that" is a red herring and distracting you two from your real problems. People take different amounts of time to heal. We aren't clone robots. This isn't a help desk ticket where you can say "how long until I have my computer back?" No. People are different. Maybe if you fucked around on him and lied to him about it, he'd be over it in a year. You're not. That's the bottom line.

I understand how this is frustrating to him because he doesn't want to have the same redundant argument every month for the rest of his life.  I know that I can completely get over this, he's just fed up with giving me the time to do it.  I feel like things have improved (I mean, in the thick of it all, we were fighting on a multiple-times-a-week-basis, because I knew when he was lying to me)...but he doesn't see any improvement over the past few years.  If he's "fed up with giving you time to [get over it]" then he's an impatient asshole who doesn't feel accountable or any empathy for you. This is a huge red flag. Please see it.

I have an appt with my counselor on Friday and I'll talk to her about getting both of us in there.  If it's not too late.  For now I am just waiting on my verdict.  You realize you have a say in this too, right? What if he says "let's just get married and work this out later." Do you really think that's a good idea? OP, please re-read what you've written. This person manipulates you into feeling like a crazy person, blames you for everything and then put himself in the driver's seat on whether you'll get married?!? It's craziness!

Sammyantha13

And yes, I am playing devil's advocate here, because I'm trying to see this from his perspective.  I'm sure we can all agree that if our spouses/SOs had a hard time getting over something after four years, it would be frustrating to answer the same questions over and over.  I think he's convinced that at this point I'm just never going to get over it.  And I don't know what to do to convince him otherwise.

My best friend divorced her husband when she found out he was cheating on her with one of those live-webcam girls.  I let articles influence me too much...I've read things like 'signs of cheating' and it says, "If your SO is buying you things for no reason, this is a sign of cheating."  Just an example.  It's dumb but I totally read into those things.  So when all this stuff accumulated last week, I started reading into it.  FI hates it that I let things like that influence me, or compare our relationship to what some cheesy women's magazine says.  He says he hasn't been acting weird for the past two weeks, it's all just in my mind and I'm putting pieces together that don't actually exist.  

@lurkergirl, that is a good point about finding someone new to me who will be unbiased.  I just feel like counseling doesn't help unless you connect with the counselor, and since I like the one I'm seeing now, it's hard to step out and find one we both like.  I am willing to, I just can't expect too much enthusiasm from FI about it.

lurkergirl

Sammyantha13 said:

And yes, I am playing devil's advocate here, because I'm trying to see this from his perspective.  I'm sure we can all agree that if our spouses/SOs had a hard time getting over something after four years, it would be frustrating to answer the same questions over and over.  I think he's convinced that at this point I'm just never going to get over it.  And I don't know what to do to convince him otherwise.

My best friend divorced her husband when she found out he was cheating on her with one of those live-webcam girls.  I let articles influence me too much...I've read things like 'signs of cheating' and it says, "If your SO is buying you things for no reason, this is a sign of cheating."  Just an example.  It's dumb but I totally read into those things.  So when all this stuff accumulated last week, I started reading into it.  FI hates it that I let things like that influence me, or compare our relationship to what some cheesy women's magazine says.  He says he hasn't been acting weird for the past two weeks, it's all just in my mind and I'm putting pieces together that don't actually exist.  

@lurkergirl, that is a good point about finding someone new to me who will be unbiased.  I just feel like counseling doesn't help unless you connect with the counselor, and since I like the one I'm seeing now, it's hard to step out and find one we both like.  I am willing to, I just can't expect too much enthusiasm from FI about it.

But you can't get over it because you haven't resolved it!  He is still acting shady, so how can you possible get over it?  You keep talking about what happened "4 years ago," but it sounds like he is still currently being super shady.  Seems like HE hasn't gotten over it.

Also, stop reading the magazines and trying to be your own therapist.  Go visit a qualified professional.  He can't manipulate them into believing it's their fault he's acting like a jerk.

KatieinBkln

You've mentioned you start asking him about the porn when you haven't had sex in a while. Are you initiating sex and he's refusing, or are you waiting for him to initiate? If it's the former, then you are absolutely right to be suspicious. If it's the latter, I wonder if you could try initiating rather than accusing? I'm not saying it's all your fault by ANY MEANS, but if he feels like all the responsibility is on him surrounding sex (when you have it, when he's allowed to look at porn, if he's looking at too much, if you're satisfied, if he's satisfied) then maybe that's stressing him out too. This is the kind of thing that he could work out IN COUNSELING, which, by the way, does people more benefit when they're young and relatively willing/able to change rather than when they're old, set in their ways, and accustomed to being miserable. (Wow, sounds like a fun future, huh? I bet the two of you can hardly wait).

HaileyDancingbear

Sammyantha13 said:

This is hard for me to talk about on here.  I think I might have ended my relationship tonight.  This is going to be a long one.  

Background: FI and I have been together for over 6 years.  First two years were the dandy honeymoon phase.  In the third year my dad died and I found out about FI's excessive pornography use at the same time (I didn't really know all the details about it but FI considered it to be an addiction and sought counseling, etc.).  So that really hurt me and for the next three years we went through ups and downs where he would say it was improving, and it turned out it wasn't.  The lying really made it hard for me to trust him.  At one point we were both so frustrated with each other that he decided he wanted to take a break (for a month)...I later found out that before he even decided on the break he was already asking out a girl in one of his classes that he had been buddying up to.  Nothing happened between them, but also didn't help my trust.  There were other minor examples where he compromised my trust, though not all worth mentioning now.  Through it all we decided it was still worth it to stay together, and we have been genuinely happy.  But a lot of my trust issues have followed us along, as is to be expected--say my therapists.  

Finally about a year ago things actually did start improving.  He stopped lying to me about his use and we settled upon two conditions: one, that his pornography use won't get in the way of our sex life as it was previously, and two, that he wouldn't do it while we are both at home together (when I'm asleep, etc.)  Once I got over my fundamental issues with porn I tried suggesting to him a few times that we look at it together, as a way of spicing up our sex life, but he says that given our history with it, it just makes him too uncomfortable.  Now, sometimes I start feeling insecure?...uneasy?....if we haven't had sex for a few weeks and I'll start wondering if it's because he's only looking at porn again.  And then we talk about it and he reassures me that's not the case and everything goes back to being fine. 

In August his dad told us about how he was having an affair on his mom.  The whole thing has messed with me, more than I should've let it.  I know FI and his dad are not the same person, but they're very similar.  His mom gave me too many details about how it happened and what happened.  And it just made me think back to when he was pursuing another girl while we were together.  Sigh.  

So for the past 10 days things have been pretty rocky.  He's been really mean, snapping at me over the littlest things.  (Last week he wanted help cutting his hair, then blew up on me for 'messing it up', even though it turned out fine.)  He's been very short with me, giving me one word responses when I ask about his day when usually he tells me everything as soon as he gets home.  He is usually very affectionate and hasn't been...the dogs have been getting more affection than me.  He has been staying late at work like an extra hour every day this week and last week.  And even still, he's been buying things for me for no reason, even though he knows we are saving for the wedding.  (Yes, including the silverware from last week.)  So weird.  All of these things together have just been putting me on the edge.  Not all infidelity thoughts, just a general anxiousness about why he's acting weird.  Of course he says it's all just random coincidences that I pieced together in my head.  

As he was leaving for work this morning he said "Oh yeah, I'll be home late tonight, I have a hunter safety course." and promptly walked out the door.  I thought it was strange that he didn't mention it sooner.  Tonight I was deleting my emails from the past month and saw one from the base event coordinator, and sure enough, it mentioned the safety course.  But the email said it starts Oct.1 and goes through the 3.  I realized today was Sept. 30 and immediately freaked.  It was so stupid of me, but it was a knee-jerk reaction.  I was like, so upset that this was just another THING that has been adding to my anxiety of why he's been acting so weird the past two weeks.  I drove to base and his car was outside of his office, light was on in his office.  (I should've just driven away.)  I went in and asked him right away about the class, which was supposed to be going on at that moment.  He promptly showed me paperwork that he had collected from it, including today's date on it and the start time of the class.  That was when I knew I was in deep shit.  

So of course he is livid that I showed up at his office.  I tried to explain all of my reasonings, the things I mentioned above contributing to my anxiety, but even I know I sounded dumb.  He says I have no trust in him and he doesn't want to live like that (rightfully so).  My rebuttal is that with his history of lying to me about things, I am still having issues sometimes, especially since it's only been the past year that things have actually improved.  He says I've had long enough to get over it.  He said emotionally he wants to stay together, but logistically he feels like we should break up.  Except he contradicted himself later when he said that his emotions are telling him he wants to break up but he's not going to make a decision when he's emotional.  So I don't know what's going on.

I guess I have to give him his space to decide what he wants to do.  I was 100% wrong in what I did and I know that, and I can't plead with him to try to understand my POV because it's dumb anyway.  I thought I was justified in going there but I wasn't.  I don't know if I can ask him for another chance since he believes that I've had long enough to figure out the trust issues.  Oh, and our wedding is in THREE WEEKS.  He went to bed and I just cried in my car for two hours because I feel like I've destroyed us.  Hindsight is 20/20.  I don't know what to do.  You can tell me I was wrong if you'd like, but I already know I was.

No it fucking isn't.  Stop that.  Right now.  Seriously.  Yeah, you made a mistake.  That doesn't mean everything is your fault.  Not even remotely.  Stop beating yourself up and just blaming yourself for the whole thing.  

Your feelings are justified.  Don't fucking let people make you feel bad for your emotions.  The fact that you're having trust issues isn't just you being nutty, there is a REASON for it.  It is not ok for your FI to just treat you like that, know your history, then act like your troubles are just you being nutty.

He fucked up with the porn thing, he's fucking up by treating you like shit, he's fucking up by being shady- He may be improving, but he can't just expect all of the emotional backlash to disappear overnight.  That's not human.  So yeah, you did some irrational, emotional things.  He needs to deal with that.  

It's not even remotely fair that YOU'RE supposed to be the rational, strong one the whole time.  You're just supposed to get over it, suck it up, BULLSHIT.  You're going to take time to trust again just as he's going to take time to fully recover from his own issues.  It's not fucking fair, in the slightest, that he gets to take his time working through his issues but you're not given time for your own.  

Look, what happens happens.  But you're a goddamn human being.  You have just as much of a right to your own emotions as anyone else has.  Don't spend your life trying to stop yourself from feeling, and apologizing for them.  Seriously, stop fucking apologizing for your emotions, life is WAY too short for that noise.  You owe nobody an apology and nobody an explanation.  

If you're stuck with someone who demands you stifle your emotions, and the only thing keeping your relationship afloat is your ability to stifle your feelings, you ditch it.  It doesn't matter if you've been together a long time, not in the long run- a good friend once said, "Yeah, you've been together for a while- but if you had a tumor for 3 years, would you get sentimental and keep it?"  Fuck no.  

Stop beating yourself up, stop apologizing.

KatieinBkln

HaileyDancingbear said:

Sammyantha13 said:

This is hard for me to talk about on here.  I think I might have ended my relationship tonight.  This is going to be a long one.  

Background: FI and I have been together for over 6 years.  First two years were the dandy honeymoon phase.  In the third year my dad died and I found out about FI's excessive pornography use at the same time (I didn't really know all the details about it but FI considered it to be an addiction and sought counseling, etc.).  So that really hurt me and for the next three years we went through ups and downs where he would say it was improving, and it turned out it wasn't.  The lying really made it hard for me to trust him.  At one point we were both so frustrated with each other that he decided he wanted to take a break (for a month)...I later found out that before he even decided on the break he was already asking out a girl in one of his classes that he had been buddying up to.  Nothing happened between them, but also didn't help my trust.  There were other minor examples where he compromised my trust, though not all worth mentioning now.  Through it all we decided it was still worth it to stay together, and we have been genuinely happy.  But a lot of my trust issues have followed us along, as is to be expected--say my therapists.  

Finally about a year ago things actually did start improving.  He stopped lying to me about his use and we settled upon two conditions: one, that his pornography use won't get in the way of our sex life as it was previously, and two, that he wouldn't do it while we are both at home together (when I'm asleep, etc.)  Once I got over my fundamental issues with porn I tried suggesting to him a few times that we look at it together, as a way of spicing up our sex life, but he says that given our history with it, it just makes him too uncomfortable.  Now, sometimes I start feeling insecure?...uneasy?....if we haven't had sex for a few weeks and I'll start wondering if it's because he's only looking at porn again.  And then we talk about it and he reassures me that's not the case and everything goes back to being fine. 

In August his dad told us about how he was having an affair on his mom.  The whole thing has messed with me, more than I should've let it.  I know FI and his dad are not the same person, but they're very similar.  His mom gave me too many details about how it happened and what happened.  And it just made me think back to when he was pursuing another girl while we were together.  Sigh.  

So for the past 10 days things have been pretty rocky.  He's been really mean, snapping at me over the littlest things.  (Last week he wanted help cutting his hair, then blew up on me for 'messing it up', even though it turned out fine.)  He's been very short with me, giving me one word responses when I ask about his day when usually he tells me everything as soon as he gets home.  He is usually very affectionate and hasn't been...the dogs have been getting more affection than me.  He has been staying late at work like an extra hour every day this week and last week.  And even still, he's been buying things for me for no reason, even though he knows we are saving for the wedding.  (Yes, including the silverware from last week.)  So weird.  All of these things together have just been putting me on the edge.  Not all infidelity thoughts, just a general anxiousness about why he's acting weird.  Of course he says it's all just random coincidences that I pieced together in my head.  

As he was leaving for work this morning he said "Oh yeah, I'll be home late tonight, I have a hunter safety course." and promptly walked out the door.  I thought it was strange that he didn't mention it sooner.  Tonight I was deleting my emails from the past month and saw one from the base event coordinator, and sure enough, it mentioned the safety course.  But the email said it starts Oct.1 and goes through the 3.  I realized today was Sept. 30 and immediately freaked.  It was so stupid of me, but it was a knee-jerk reaction.  I was like, so upset that this was just another THING that has been adding to my anxiety of why he's been acting so weird the past two weeks.  I drove to base and his car was outside of his office, light was on in his office.  (I should've just driven away.)  I went in and asked him right away about the class, which was supposed to be going on at that moment.  He promptly showed me paperwork that he had collected from it, including today's date on it and the start time of the class.  That was when I knew I was in deep shit.  

So of course he is livid that I showed up at his office.  I tried to explain all of my reasonings, the things I mentioned above contributing to my anxiety, but even I know I sounded dumb.  He says I have no trust in him and he doesn't want to live like that (rightfully so).  My rebuttal is that with his history of lying to me about things, I am still having issues sometimes, especially since it's only been the past year that things have actually improved.  He says I've had long enough to get over it.  He said emotionally he wants to stay together, but logistically he feels like we should break up.  Except he contradicted himself later when he said that his emotions are telling him he wants to break up but he's not going to make a decision when he's emotional.  So I don't know what's going on.

I guess I have to give him his space to decide what he wants to do.  I was 100% wrong in what I did and I know that, and I can't plead with him to try to understand my POV because it's dumb anyway.  I thought I was justified in going there but I wasn't.  I don't know if I can ask him for another chance since he believes that I've had long enough to figure out the trust issues.  Oh, and our wedding is in THREE WEEKS.  He went to bed and I just cried in my car for two hours because I feel like I've destroyed us.  Hindsight is 20/20.  I don't know what to do.  You can tell me I was wrong if you'd like, but I already know I was.

No it fucking isn't.  Stop that.  Right now.  Seriously.  Yeah, you made a mistake.  That doesn't mean everything is your fault.  Not even remotely.  Stop beating yourself up and just blaming yourself for the whole thing.  

Your feelings are justified.  Don't fucking let people make you feel bad for your emotions.  The fact that you're having trust issues isn't just you being nutty, there is a REASON for it.  It is not ok for your FI to just treat you like that, know your history, then act like your troubles are just you being nutty.

He fucked up with the porn thing, he's fucking up by treating you like shit, he's fucking up by being shady- He may be improving, but he can't just expect all of the emotional backlash to disappear overnight.  That's not human.  So yeah, you did some irrational, emotional things.  He needs to deal with that.  

It's not even remotely fair that YOU'RE supposed to be the rational, strong one the whole time.  You're just supposed to get over it, suck it up, BULLSHIT.  You're going to take time to trust again just as he's going to take time to fully recover from his own issues.  It's not fucking fair, in the slightest, that he gets to take his time working through his issues but you're not given time for your own.  

Look, what happens happens.  But you're a goddamn human being.  You have just as much of a right to your own emotions as anyone else has.  Don't spend your life trying to stop yourself from feeling, and apologizing for them.  Seriously, stop fucking apologizing for your emotions, life is WAY too short for that noise.  You owe nobody an apology and nobody an explanation.  

If you're stuck with someone who demands you stifle your emotions, and the only thing keeping your relationship afloat is your ability to stifle your feelings, you ditch it.  It doesn't matter if you've been together a long time, not in the long run- a good friend once said, "Yeah, you've been together for a while- but if you had a tumor for 3 years, would you get sentimental and keep it?"  Fuck no.  

Stop beating yourself up, stop apologizing.

QFT

Imagine how different things would be if HE berated himself for being "dumb" and ruining everything because of his actions (oh wait, that would be the actual correct response, but instead he's shifting the blame to you...)

Maggie0829

All I can say is that there would be no way in hell that I would willingly marry a man I do not trust. Nope, not happening.  Trust is key to a good relationship.  If you don't have full trust in him now, getting married will not solve anything.