Baby It's Cold Outside

PrettyGirlLost

amelisha said:

(ugh, quoting got all screwed up, sorry)

Even if she stays and DOESN'T fuck that guy (which nowhere in the song does it say they will, we just interpret it that way because two adults apparently cannot be alone together overnight without having to bump uglies), her entire family and community will label her a slut. Why aren't we worried about THAT part of the song?

Different times. If you think that one is bad, you should hear some of the opera I used to perform in my late teens and early twenties. I know that doesn't excuse its continued popularity, but music is a funny thing - we tend to overlook the lyrics for the sake of the music, although honestly, I do agree that a lot of songs might be better off in the past where they originated. I'm not saying your thoughts on it aren't reasonable (I think they are, for the record) but music from around that time commonly does have that vibe but for better or worse we've made a decision as a society to enjoy it for his musical merits and set aside the less palatable parts of the era.

I understand why it irks you, but from my perspective of spending years gigging, both paid and unpaid, and performing classical as well as popular music spanning hundreds of years, there is just too much memory and sentimentality attached to a lot of these kinds of songs as well as, in many cases, great musical merit aside from the lyrics, for songs like this to ever fall out of favour.

I'm not religious, either, but I routinely sing entire concerts of very traditional Christian Christmas music because of its musical value, even though the lyrics are not really anything I agree with. I mean...how many times does a classical singer have to sing the Messiah? Every year, if you want the money, lol.

Yeah where rape occurs and there's no ifs, ands, or buts in the interpretation it's obviously rape. . .

princessofgenovia

I love Christmas music...and I have no shame in saying that. 

As for Baby It's Cold Outside, I always more bothered by the "Gee I gotta go because other people are gonna talk shit about me staying over" because fuck them. To me it wasn't so much that she wanted to leave, but that she was going to leave because she had to because other people would think she was a slutty mcslutson if she stayed at a fella's house.

Also I love this version:

http://youtu.be/iigfts-sJFg

Sugargirl1019

esstee33 said:

JCbride2015 said:

I still love "Baby It's Cold Outside" in spite of its date rapey-ness.  But the Menzel and Buble version actually changes some of the lyrics to eliminate the creepiness-- yay!  They leave out the bits about cigarettes and drinks (it's "maybe just a soda pop more" instead) and substituted something else for, "Hey, what's in this drink?"  I love it.

I'll have to check this out! I would like the song if not for the skeeze factor. 
---------------------sitb--------------------------
So @estee did you actually click on the link to watch the music video I posted? Because this "cute" version is the one I posted. The fact that this is a performance of a boy with a crush on a girl asking her not to leave (and it looks like she's going out on the town) AND we have turned it into a date rape song is disgusting.

And I don't want to hear how the line "your lips look so delicious" equals a rape line.

theartistformerlyknownas

So the gist I'm getting from this thread is I should never let my husband indicate that he's turned on by me (your lips taste delicious), never playfully tell him it's too late or I'm tired and have to be up early (while I continue to play with his hair), never let him pour me another glass of wine (which I gratefully accept), because he's definitely going to rape me. And I'm a terrible person perpetuating rape culture if I don't think that's the case. Context and intent don't matter; no means no. And husbands can definitely rape just like boyfriends and random dates can.

OK then.

ashley8918

Maggie0829 said:

ashley8918 said:

Maggie0829 said:

Any other Christmas songs we want to drag through the mud?  I am sure if we all took some time we could turn any Christmas song into something disgusting and offensive.

No it's really just this one. 

You guys are acting like the few of us here are the only ones in the world who interpret this song this way. It's an extemely common interpretation because the lyrics are creepy as shit. 

So apparently since the interpretation is common then it must be true and that all of us who think otherwise are dumb.  Okay, gotcha.

WHOA. Calm down. No one said that anyone was dumb. Why can't we have different opinions or interpretations of things without the other party being dumb?

esstee33

amelisha said:

Really? REALLY? That is the most ridiculous shit I've ever heard. Almost certain chance you're going to get RAPED because the guy you're dating wants you to stay the night… when I read the lyrics, I picture a young couple in a time when premarital sex is shameful for a woman to the point where her family would shun her. She knows she is SUPPOSED to go home but she really doesn't want to, which is why she postpones leaving. Seriously, ONE LINE about a drink, and the poor guy in the song is instantly a fucking rapist? JFC, there are half a dozen lines about social standards put on women! 

"There's bound to be talk tomorrow, at least there will be plenty implied."

"My maiden aunt's mind is vicious."

Even if she stays and DOESN'T fuck that guy (which nowhere in the song does it say they will, we just interpret it that way because two adults apparently cannot be alone together overnight without having to bump uglies), her entire family and community will label her a slut. Why aren't we worried about THAT part of the song?

Different times. If you think that one is bad, you should hear some of the opera I used to perform in my late teens and early twenties. I know that doesn't excuse it's continued popularity, but music is a funny thing - we tend to overlook the lyrics for the sake of the music, although honestly, I do agree that a lot of songs might be better off in the past where they originated. I'm not saying your thoughts on it aren't reasonable (I think they are, for the record) but music from around that time commonly does have that vibe but for better or worse we've made a decision as a society to enjoy it for his musical merits and set aside the less palatable parts of the era.

I understand why it irks you, but from my perspective of spending years gigging, both paid and unpaid, and performing classical as well as popular music spanning hundreds of years, there is just too much memory and sentimentality attached to a lot of these kinds of songs as well as, in many cases, great musical merit aside from the lyrics, for songs like this to ever fall out of favour.

I'm not religious, either, but I routinely sing entire concerts of very traditional Christian Christmas music because of its musical value, even though the lyrics are not really anything I agree with. I mean...how many times does a classical singer have to sing the Messiah? Every year, if you want the money, lol.

******** I tried to fix the quote boxes, but now we have a different font and I'm stuck in the box anyway, so I guess problem not solved. *********

The guy in the song is totally disrespecting her agency to say no. Furthermore, he's making comments about her lips being delicious and other shit that is not JUST the line about the drink. Plying her with more drinks to try to change her mind SHOULD be enough to be like "Whoa, dude, not cool."  If I'm in a situation where a guy is clearly not taking no for an answer, I think that constitutes a good reason to be suspicious of his motives and to want to leave, even if it's cold outside. Why the hell would I want to stay in a situation that could be potentially dangerous? She (or I, or any other person) shouldn't have to repeatedly say no to get her point across after continually being guilted and coerced. 

PrettyGirlLost

ashley8918 said:

Maggie0829 said:

Any other Christmas songs we want to drag through the mud?  I am sure if we all took some time we could turn any Christmas song into something disgusting and offensive.

No it's really just this one. 

You guys are acting like the few of us here are the only ones in the world who interpret this song this way. It's an extemely common interpretation because the lyrics are creepy as shit. 

Yep, because I have never ever in 33 years heard another person say that this song was rapey.  You guys are the 1st.  I'm being honest.

PrettyGirlLost

ashley8918 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

Again attitudes like what?  Like I DON'T FUCKING AGREE WITH YOUR INTERPRETATION OF SONG LYRICS?

Because that's all that has been said.

STOP YELLING AT ME! AHHHHH!

Okay, but really, I can accept that you interpret the song differently. I just think you are wrong, but that's okay.

Attitudes like "Trying to get a girl drunk after she said no? That's totally harmless!" But I understand that this is not what you are saying. You are saying "I don't think he was trying to get her drunk to get her in the sack". Okay, cool. I don't agree but I also don't mean to imply that you personally are part of the rape problem.

Thank You!

theartistformerlyknownas

PrettyGirlLost said:

ashley8918 said:

Maggie0829 said:

Any other Christmas songs we want to drag through the mud?  I am sure if we all took some time we could turn any Christmas song into something disgusting and offensive.

No it's really just this one. 

You guys are acting like the few of us here are the only ones in the world who interpret this song this way. It's an extemely common interpretation because the lyrics are creepy as shit. 

Yep, because I have never ever in 33 years heard another person say that this song was rapey.  You guys are the 1st.  I'm being honest.

I never have either. 

There are lots of people in the world who think that vaccines cause autism, there's a penis in the castle on the Little Mermaid VHS cover, and the US government controls global warming. Prevalence of an opinion doesn't make it true. It just means you share similar interpretations, not advanced understanding of fact.

levioosa

While I don't particularly like the song, and it does remind me of date rape a little bit, I also think that might just be my own coloring of it.  The parts that have always bothered me are the lines, "say, what's in this drink?" and how it seems like he is guilt tripping her to stay. I remember reading an analysis of the song lyrics in regards to the time it was written once.  It did make more sense after reading it, but I still didn't care for the song. 

But as far as being an outright offensive song?  I'll save that for Blurred Lines.  

ETF: Words

emmaaa

PrettyGirlLost said:

ashley8918 said:

Maggie0829 said:

Any other Christmas songs we want to drag through the mud?  I am sure if we all took some time we could turn any Christmas song into something disgusting and offensive.

No it's really just this one. 

You guys are acting like the few of us here are the only ones in the world who interpret this song this way. It's an extemely common interpretation because the lyrics are creepy as shit. 

Yep, because I have never ever in 33 years heard another person say that this song was rapey.  You guys are the 1st.  I'm being honest.

This wasn't the first time I heard the interpretation. But when it was pointed out to me the last time it was in a joking, "Like, if you just listen to this one line, it sounds like he's trying to seduce her to stay." And let's be honest, whose SO has NEVER tried to seduce you?

esstee33

theycallmelinz said:

I mean... I've definitely been in that situation before where I really should have gone home that night but ol' dude was just too good a kisser and kept saying, "It's fine baby, just sleep over." And so I did, but didn't feel that I was forced to. I get the same vibe from the song that she knows she probably should leave because people are going to worry/gossip, but she doesn't really want to leave. 

And WTF BING CROSBY was a child abuser?!?!  (don't remember who originally said this but please explain)

Basically all of his children have come out and admitted that he beat the fuck out of them. 

Sugargirl1019

DID ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY WATCH THIS VERSION OF THE SONG?

THE LYRICS HAVE BEEN CHANGED

Sorry to get big letters on y'all, but sersly.

ashley8918

PrettyGirlLost said:

ashley8918 said:

Maggie0829 said:

Any other Christmas songs we want to drag through the mud?  I am sure if we all took some time we could turn any Christmas song into something disgusting and offensive.

No it's really just this one. 

You guys are acting like the few of us here are the only ones in the world who interpret this song this way. It's an extremely common interpretation because the lyrics are creepy as shit. 

Yep, because I have never ever in 33 years heard another person say that this song was rapey.  You guys are the 1st.  I'm being honest.

And I have never in 25 years known who didn't think this song was totally creep city. (Clarification: People who have spoken to me about this song - I do not claim to be clairvoyant). There isn't really anything else to be done with this information. We have different opinions and the people we know have different opinions, apparenlty. Okay?

beethery

I didn't so much get the roofie vibe from the song as much of a "TOUCH MY DIIIIIIIICK" vibe from it.

I mean, he's guilt-tripping her and she's trying to deflect because of societal pressures from that time. The shit that went down when an unmarried woman got pregnant was wild as hell.

esstee33

lolo883 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

ashley8918 said:

Maggie0829 said:

Any other Christmas songs we want to drag through the mud?  I am sure if we all took some time we could turn any Christmas song into something disgusting and offensive.

No it's really just this one. 

You guys are acting like the few of us here are the only ones in the world who interpret this song this way. It's an extemely common interpretation because the lyrics are creepy as shit. 

Yep, because I have never ever in 33 years heard another person say that this song was rapey.  You guys are the 1st.  I'm being honest.

I never have either. 

There are lots of people in the world who think that vaccines cause autism, there's a penis in the castle on the Little Mermaid VHS cover, and the US government controls global warming. Prevalence of an opinion doesn't make it true. It just means you share similar interpretations, not advanced understanding of fact.

In what universe does interpreting date rape in the lyrics of this song equate with vaccines causing autism? Are you fucking kidding me? Interpreting meaning from something is not the same thing as making up completely fucking wild "scientific facts" and purporting them to be true to the detriment of children's health. What the fuck? 

theycallmelinz

beethery said:

I didn't so much get the roofie vibe from the song as much of a "TOUCH MY DIIIIIIIICK" vibe from it.

Same here. I feel like he's saying, "Carpe diem baby! let's have something to drink and get NAKED!"

princessofgenovia

Does he even say stay the night? He just wants her to stay longer. Maybe his roommate borrowed his car and when the roommate gets back he can drive her home, but she's like "I dunno your roommate is kind of flaky, I could just walk" and he's like "Nah, just wait, here have a drink, it's too cold to walk, he'll be home soon, don't worry" and then the roommate comes home and he drives her home and no sex happens at all. 

ashley8918

lolo883 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

ashley8918 said:

Maggie0829 said:

Any other Christmas songs we want to drag through the mud?  I am sure if we all took some time we could turn any Christmas song into something disgusting and offensive.

No it's really just this one. 

You guys are acting like the few of us here are the only ones in the world who interpret this song this way. It's an extemely common interpretation because the lyrics are creepy as shit. 

Yep, because I have never ever in 33 years heard another person say that this song was rapey.  You guys are the 1st.  I'm being honest.

I never have either. 

There are lots of people in the world who think that vaccines cause autism, there's a penis in the castle on the Little Mermaid VHS cover, and the US government controls global warming. Prevalence of an opinion doesn't make it true. It just means you share similar interpretations, not advanced understanding of fact.

I didn't mean to imply that popular opinion = right. Not at all. Only that I don't appreciate being treated like I pulled this crazy ass theory out of the blue and no one sees it but me (or the few of us).

I am under no delusion that my interpretation can't be wrong. It might be, but my opinion is that it isn't. Your opinion is that it is. And we are both allowed to have those opinions without one having to be labeled as dumb (which I realise wasn't said by you, but it is really sticking with me. I don't like being accused of belittling people with different opinions than my own).

theycallmelinz

PrettyGirlLost

esstee33 said:

theycallmelinz said:

I mean... I've definitely been in that situation before where I really should have gone home that night but ol' dude was just too good a kisser and kept saying, "It's fine baby, just sleep over." And so I did, but didn't feel that I was forced to. I get the same vibe from the song that she knows she probably should leave because people are going to worry/gossip, but she doesn't really want to leave. 

And WTF BING CROSBY was a child abuser?!?!  (don't remember who originally said this but please explain)

Basically all of his children have come out and admitted that he beat the fuck out of them. 

Ugh.  Well that's rotten.

ashley8918

PrettyGirlLost said:

ashley8918 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

Again attitudes like what?  Like I DON'T FUCKING AGREE WITH YOUR INTERPRETATION OF SONG LYRICS?

Because that's all that has been said.

STOP YELLING AT ME! AHHHHH!

Okay, but really, I can accept that you interpret the song differently. I just think you are wrong, but that's okay.

Attitudes like "Trying to get a girl drunk after she said no? That's totally harmless!" But I understand that this is not what you are saying. You are saying "I don't think he was trying to get her drunk to get her in the sack". Okay, cool. I don't agree but I also don't mean to imply that you personally are part of the rape problem.

Thank You!

Sure thing

I honestly like getting in to some of these moral-type debates because all you ladies on TK are really smart and thoughtful, and we can (mostly) keep it civil. You always give me interesting things to think about, or offer varying opinions that I might not have considered

princessofgenovia

Sugargirl1019 said:

DID ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY WATCH THIS VERSION OF THE SONG? THE LYRICS HAVE BEEN CHANGED Sorry to get big letters on y'all, but sersly.

I want to go stay at this hotel run by children. It looks adorable. I mean it's probably terribly managed because they are children but it also looks really adorable!

ashley8918

Sugargirl1019 said:

DID ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY WATCH THIS VERSION OF THE SONG? THE LYRICS HAVE BEEN CHANGED Sorry to get big letters on y'all, but sersly.

Yes, I did. It's cute. But the original song still skeeves me out. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying so.

And this brings up a good point - If the song wasn't creepy in the first place, why would the lyrics need to be changed?

theycallmelinz

PrettyGirlLost said:

esstee33 said:

theycallmelinz said:

I mean... I've definitely been in that situation before where I really should have gone home that night but ol' dude was just too good a kisser and kept saying, "It's fine baby, just sleep over." And so I did, but didn't feel that I was forced to. I get the same vibe from the song that she knows she probably should leave because people are going to worry/gossip, but she doesn't really want to leave. 

And WTF BING CROSBY was a child abuser?!?!  (don't remember who originally said this but please explain)

Basically all of his children have come out and admitted that he beat the fuck out of them. 

Ugh.  Well that's rotten.

Aw that makes me really sad. I want to kick Bing Crosby out of my iTunes now. Dickhead.  (Bing, not you, obviously lol)

Maggie0829

ashley8918 said:

lolo883 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

ashley8918 said:

Maggie0829 said:

Any other Christmas songs we want to drag through the mud?  I am sure if we all took some time we could turn any Christmas song into something disgusting and offensive.

No it's really just this one. 

You guys are acting like the few of us here are the only ones in the world who interpret this song this way. It's an extemely common interpretation because the lyrics are creepy as shit. 

Yep, because I have never ever in 33 years heard another person say that this song was rapey.  You guys are the 1st.  I'm being honest.

I never have either. 

There are lots of people in the world who think that vaccines cause autism, there's a penis in the castle on the Little Mermaid VHS cover, and the US government controls global warming. Prevalence of an opinion doesn't make it true. It just means you share similar interpretations, not advanced understanding of fact.

I didn't mean to imply that popular opinion = right. Not at all. Only that I don't appreciate being treated like I pulled this crazy ass theory out of the blue and no one sees it but me (or the few of us).

I am under no delusion that my interpretation can't be wrong. It might be, but my opinion is that it isn't. Your opinion is that it is. And we are both allowed to have those opinions without one having to be labeled as dumb (which I realise wasn't said by you, but it is really sticking with me. I don't like being accused of belittling people with different opinions than my own).

Sorry but I do feel like you and others with our opinion are belittling us that don't have the same opinion.  It makes it feel like those of us who do not see the rape aspect in this song are just perpetuating this rape attitude that our world has.  That is not cool.  Just because I don't agree with your (general) interpretation of a song doesn't mean that I am all "yay rape!"  I just think that this song is not about rape at all and that there are a hell of a lot worse songs out there to get so heated over.

Sugargirl1019

Blockquote class="Quote" rel="ashley8918">

Sugargirl1019 said:

DID ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY WATCH THIS VERSION OF THE SONG?

THE LYRICS HAVE BEEN CHANGED

Sorry to get big letters on y'all, but sersly.

Yes, I did. It's cute. But the original song still skeeves me out. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying so.

And this brings up a good point - If the song wasn't creepy in the first place, why would the lyrics need to be changed?

Because it's not appropriate for children to be having a cigarette or drinking an adult beverage.

emmaaa

ashley8918 said:

Sugargirl1019 said:

DID ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY WATCH THIS VERSION OF THE SONG? THE LYRICS HAVE BEEN CHANGED Sorry to get big letters on y'all, but sersly.

Yes, I did. It's cute. But the original song still skeeves me out. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying so.

And this brings up a good point - If the song wasn't creepy in the first place, why would the lyrics need to be changed?

Because it is children portraying the song and shouldn't be talking about drinks and drinking.

amelisha

esstee33 said:

amelisha said:

Really? REALLY? That is the most ridiculous shit I've ever heard. Almost certain chance you're going to get RAPED because the guy you're dating wants you to stay the night… when I read the lyrics, I picture a young couple in a time when premarital sex is shameful for a woman to the point where her family would shun her. She knows she is SUPPOSED to go home but she really doesn't want to, which is why she postpones leaving. Seriously, ONE LINE about a drink, and the poor guy in the song is instantly a fucking rapist? JFC, there are half a dozen lines about social standards put on women! 

"There's bound to be talk tomorrow, at least there will be plenty implied."

"My maiden aunt's mind is vicious."

Even if she stays and DOESN'T fuck that guy (which nowhere in the song does it say they will, we just interpret it that way because two adults apparently cannot be alone together overnight without having to bump uglies), her entire family and community will label her a slut. Why aren't we worried about THAT part of the song?

Different times. If you think that one is bad, you should hear some of the opera I used to perform in my late teens and early twenties. I know that doesn't excuse it's continued popularity, but music is a funny thing - we tend to overlook the lyrics for the sake of the music, although honestly, I do agree that a lot of songs might be better off in the past where they originated. I'm not saying your thoughts on it aren't reasonable (I think they are, for the record) but music from around that time commonly does have that vibe but for better or worse we've made a decision as a society to enjoy it for his musical merits and set aside the less palatable parts of the era.

I understand why it irks you, but from my perspective of spending years gigging, both paid and unpaid, and performing classical as well as popular music spanning hundreds of years, there is just too much memory and sentimentality attached to a lot of these kinds of songs as well as, in many cases, great musical merit aside from the lyrics, for songs like this to ever fall out of favour.

I'm not religious, either, but I routinely sing entire concerts of very traditional Christian Christmas music because of its musical value, even though the lyrics are not really anything I agree with. I mean...how many times does a classical singer have to sing the Messiah? Every year, if you want the money, lol.

******** I tried to fix the quote boxes, but now we have a different font and I'm stuck in the box anyway, so I guess problem not solved. *********

The guy in the song is totally disrespecting her agency to say no. Furthermore, he's making comments about her lips being delicious and other shit that is not JUST the line about the drink. Plying her with more drinks to try to change her mind SHOULD be enough to be like "Whoa, dude, not cool."  If I'm in a situation where a guy is clearly not taking no for an answer, I think that constitutes a good reason to be suspicious of his motives and to want to leave, even if it's cold outside. Why the hell would I want to stay in a situation that could be potentially dangerous? She (or I, or any other person) shouldn't have to repeatedly say no to get her point across after continually being guilted and coerced. 

I think you're arguing with the wrong person, here. I said that "I'm not saying your thoughts on it aren't reasonable (I think they are, for the record)". My post was purely about lyrical vs. musical merit and traditionalism in music. I didn't address anything about the actual content, nor did I want to...

ETA: Were you responding to the post by TKzilla I tried and failed to quote properly?

theartistformerlyknownas

ashley8918 said:

lolo883 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

ashley8918 said:

Maggie0829 said:

Any other Christmas songs we want to drag through the mud?  I am sure if we all took some time we could turn any Christmas song into something disgusting and offensive.

No it's really just this one. 

You guys are acting like the few of us here are the only ones in the world who interpret this song this way. It's an extemely common interpretation because the lyrics are creepy as shit. 

Yep, because I have never ever in 33 years heard another person say that this song was rapey.  You guys are the 1st.  I'm being honest.

I never have either. 

There are lots of people in the world who think that vaccines cause autism, there's a penis in the castle on the Little Mermaid VHS cover, and the US government controls global warming. Prevalence of an opinion doesn't make it true. It just means you share similar interpretations, not advanced understanding of fact.

I didn't mean to imply that popular opinion = right. Not at all. Only that I don't appreciate being treated like I pulled this crazy ass theory out of the blue and no one sees it but me (or the few of us).

I am under no delusion that my interpretation can't be wrong. It might be, but my opinion is that it isn't. Your opinion is that it is. And we are both allowed to have those opinions without one having to be labeled as dumb (which I realise wasn't said by you, but it is really sticking with me. I don't like being accused of belittling people with different opinions than my own).

Well I don't appreciate being made to feel like because I don't share the opinion of how a character in a song may have interpreted the motivations of another character, I'm supporting rape culture. Again, might not have been you who said it (or intended it) but that was the feeling I got at the comments of taking offense that anyone would not support this interpretation of the song.

You're free to have your opinion while I keep mine. We cool.