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Ferguson

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Re: Ferguson

  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 a taco truck in Houston member
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    emmaaa said:
    @Fran1985, let me get this straight .... we are (justifiably) upset that a man who shot Michael Brown will not have a truly fair trial.  And the police officer most likely shot Brown based on the color of his skin and what other people with the same skin color have done.  

    Yet, it seems that you think it's justified for my friend to get crap based on what other people in his line of work have done when he has done nothing wrong?

    Of course I don't think he should get crap, I just think its incredibly stupid to bring it up in this thread. The NYPD JUST killed someone this week. I don't really think its the time to be like oh man my poor cop friend, he might get insulted. We are talking about people getting killed, not about having to take unfair or unwarrented insults. I think in general we need to talk about police culture in this country.
    I think it is very dangerous to blame a whole group for one person's actions. One NYPD officer killed someone this week. Not the whole department. Not to say it doesn't need improvement but to lump a whole department together over one person's actions is irresponsible. What if someone said, "Well black people murdered my family" when really it was one black person who committed the crime, not the entire race.

    ETA: and obviously that example is made up

    Of course its dangerous to blame a whole group for one person's actions- have you read the beginning of this thread where people are doing it? Its problematic across the board. But we are getting to the point where a lot of police officers are using life ending force, so yes we do need to start questioning that.

     She mentioned that her NYPD friend would get crap for Ferguson, and I was pointing out that something similar just happened to the NYPD- the fact that she didn't know about it shows its really not getting enough attention.

    You're right.  I was not aware of that recent shooting.  Thank you.  
    Fran1985
  • sarahuflsarahufl New York member
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    daria24 said:
    sarahufl said:
    FiancB said:
    My impression was that it was symbolic, that it shows the blood on his hands. I could be wrong. 
    The blood on BRATTON'S hands?! He is the NYPD Commissioner. This argument is absurd, at best.

    The police commissioner is responsible for the atmosphere of his organization. He's responsible for how the group handles police misconduct. He's responsible for holding officers accountable. MONTHS ago a police officer held a suspect in a choke hold, which was against police regulations. The suspect died due to that choke hold. The whole incident was caught on video. That police officer hasn't been arrested, charged, indicted-nothing. And he clearly broke the rules and regulations of his job. 

    So yes, I think the police commissioner does have blood on his hands when he fails to see that his officers are held accountable for police misconduct. 
    Yes, I am aware of that case. Which I also think was terrible, actually more so than this one because the victim wasn't actually being aggressive in that case.

    Nobody deserves to die a the hands of police. Nobody. But the fact is, the protest was about Michael Brown, not about the NYPD.
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  • edited June 2015
  • Fran1985 Fran1985 Narnia member
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    sarahufl said:
    daria24 said:
    sarahufl said:
    FiancB said:
    My impression was that it was symbolic, that it shows the blood on his hands. I could be wrong. 
    The blood on BRATTON'S hands?! He is the NYPD Commissioner. This argument is absurd, at best.

    The police commissioner is responsible for the atmosphere of his organization. He's responsible for how the group handles police misconduct. He's responsible for holding officers accountable. MONTHS ago a police officer held a suspect in a choke hold, which was against police regulations. The suspect died due to that choke hold. The whole incident was caught on video. That police officer hasn't been arrested, charged, indicted-nothing. And he clearly broke the rules and regulations of his job. 

    So yes, I think the police commissioner does have blood on his hands when he fails to see that his officers are held accountable for police misconduct. 
    Yes, I am aware of that case. Which I also think was terrible, actually more so than this one because the victim wasn't actually being aggressive in that case.

    Nobody deserves to die a the hands of police. Nobody. But the fact is, the protest was about Michael Brown, not about the NYPD.
    The protest was not just about Michael Brown. and not to be broken record about this but there is the case a few months ago, and the new case that just happened this week. (4 days ago I think? so its very, very fresh in their minds) I don't condone throwing paint at anyone but its not absurd to think that Bratton has blood on his hands.

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  • Fran1985 Fran1985 Narnia member
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    sarahufl said:
    FiancB said:
    My impression was that it was symbolic, that it shows the blood on his hands. I could be wrong. 
    The blood on BRATTON'S hands?! He is the NYPD Commissioner. This argument is absurd, at best.
    That is what I was figuring, but wanted to ask just to be safe.

    But I don't see how throwing fake blood on the NYPD Commissioner has anything to do with the Mike Brown case.  But I do think it shows that there is a link between how this case is now causing people to have mistrust in all police officers.  Just how African Americans do not want people grouping them all under one category, African Americans and other protesters should not be doing the same to the police force across the country.  Not all cops are corrupt and not all African Americans are criminals.
    This is the not all men argument. NO ONE is saying all police are corrupt.

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    abbyj700[Deleted User]ashley8918chibiyui


  • I really don't want to read garbage posts from garbage people. Too mad.

    Can someone just make a list of everyone who sucked in this thread so I can avoid them in the future? Thanks.
    The people who "suck" or are "garbage" is a matter of opinion.  And I think completely discounting someone's opinion because it doesn't align with yours is what causes some of the problems that we face in our country.
    Let me be specific then:

    Anyone who defended the cop, the shit decision, thinks black people are wrongfully upset, point out the irrelevant gas station theft the cop didn't know about, make comments based entirely on the veil of white privilege, or think white allies are being too PC or SJWs.

    How's that?
    If you're still talking about Brown, Wilson did know about the robbery. He stated that he had asked the two gentlemen to move to the side walk but then realized that the description of the recent robber matched Brown's description and he backed his vehicle up to confront him. Just wanted to clarify. If you're talking about something else then I apologize.
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  • l9il9i Ohio member
    Third Anniversary 100 Love Its 100 Comments Name Dropper

    Genuine question and most likely a little off topic.  For those that are heavily against this and mentioning police shooting unarmed people, are you generally for higher gun regulation? 

    Not wanting to get into a whole other debate I was just curious whether the two things could be correlated.  My theory is those against the officer are for more gun restriction and those for the officer are not.

  • Maggie0829Maggie0829 Ravens & Bohs & Crabs & O's member
    Eighth Anniversary 10000 Comments 500 Love Its 25 Answers
    edited November 2014
    I really don't want to read garbage posts from garbage people. Too mad.

    Can someone just make a list of everyone who sucked in this thread so I can avoid them in the future? Thanks.
    The people who "suck" or are "garbage" is a matter of opinion.  And I think completely discounting someone's opinion because it doesn't align with yours is what causes some of the problems that we face in our country.
    Let me be specific then:

    Anyone who defended the cop, the shit decision, thinks black people are wrongfully upset, point out the irrelevant gas station theft the cop didn't know about, make comments based entirely on the veil of white privilege, or think white allies are being too PC or SJWs.

    How's that?
    Again you shouldn't discount others opinions because they don't align with yours.  People need to listen to each other and hear each other out when it comes to these situations instead of rushing to judgement and completely writing some off as "garbage" because you don't like what they have to say.  How do you expect any type of solution with an attitude like that?

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  • emmaaaemmaaa North Carolina mod
    Moderator 2500 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary
    emmaaa said:
    @Fran1985, let me get this straight .... we are (justifiably) upset that a man who shot Michael Brown will not have a truly fair trial.  And the police officer most likely shot Brown based on the color of his skin and what other people with the same skin color have done.  

    Yet, it seems that you think it's justified for my friend to get crap based on what other people in his line of work have done when he has done nothing wrong?

    Of course I don't think he should get crap, I just think its incredibly stupid to bring it up in this thread. The NYPD JUST killed someone this week. I don't really think its the time to be like oh man my poor cop friend, he might get insulted. We are talking about people getting killed, not about having to take unfair or unwarrented insults. I think in general we need to talk about police culture in this country.
    I think it is very dangerous to blame a whole group for one person's actions. One NYPD officer killed someone this week. Not the whole department. Not to say it doesn't need improvement but to lump a whole department together over one person's actions is irresponsible. What if someone said, "Well black people murdered my family" when really it was one black person who committed the crime, not the entire race.

    ETA: and obviously that example is made up

    Of course its dangerous to blame a whole group for one person's actions- have you read the beginning of this thread where people are doing it? Its problematic across the board. But we are getting to the point where a lot of police officers are using life ending force, so yes we do need to start questioning that.

     She mentioned that her NYPD friend would get crap for Ferguson, and I was pointing out that something similar just happened to the NYPD- the fact that she didn't know about it shows its really not getting enough attention.

    So, because other people in this thread (not me) grouped all of the protesters together that makes it okay for you to group the entire NYPD and police departments everywhere together based on the actions of few?

    I do understand that you were pointing out that he was probably getting crap because of the other officer with the NYPD and not so mush the situation in Ferguson.

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  • l9i said:

    Genuine question and most likely a little off topic.  For those that are heavily against this and mentioning police shooting unarmed people, are you generally for higher gun regulation? 

    Not wanting to get into a whole other debate I was just curious whether the two things could be correlated.  My theory is those against the officer are for more gun restriction and those for the officer are not.

    I am for higher gun regulation but not for this reason. It's because of the school shootings and how easily people can get a hold of a gun. There are so many people who have properly registered their guns and are completely responsible and even if we have higher gun regulation, they will more than likely follow those rules. It's the irresponsible people who will not.

    Now I truly believe, banishment of firearms will not salvage this country. I believe that many people who went through with the shootings had mental illness or depression. Many of them didn't see therapists or psychiatrists. I believe that we as a country need to start recognizing that mental health is just as important as physical health and that we can start there to really address the problem of so many people suffering. 
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  • edited June 2015
  • Thanks for proving my point of how that one action being shown by the media so easily distracts the masses from all of the real issues and injustices.

    One mention of that paint - and NO ONE continued to discuss the peaceful protestors and what we can do in this country to save lives. Just that one image from the media and we were all spread apart, divided and fighting instead of uniting and standing up against this injustice in our nation.


  • sarawifenowsarawifenow Denver, baby! member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary First Answer
    I really don't want to read garbage posts from garbage people. Too mad.

    Can someone just make a list of everyone who sucked in this thread so I can avoid them in the future? Thanks.
    The people who "suck" or are "garbage" is a matter of opinion.  And I think completely discounting someone's opinion because it doesn't align with yours is what causes some of the problems that we face in our country.
    Let me be specific then:

    Anyone who defended the cop, the shit decision, thinks black people are wrongfully upset, point out the irrelevant gas station theft the cop didn't know about, make comments based entirely on the veil of white privilege, or think white allies are being too PC or SJWs.

    How's that?
    Again you shouldn't discount others opinions because they don't align with yours.  People need to listen to each other and hear each other out when it comes to these situations instead of rushing to judgement and completely writing some off as "garbage" because you don't like what they have to say.  How do you expect any type of solution with an attitude like that?
    Alright. I guess it's really hard to read the "I'm steaming mad part" - so I guess I'll just start here.

    I don't plan to make a solution with people like that because they're fine with the status quo. I plan to move ahead with other allies and leave them to their shitty selves. I'm not crossing the aisle to shake hands with people like that any more than I will for anti-gay marriage people or anti-feminist people. I will move on despite them and I don't need to give them my time.

    And if that bothers you, then feel free to wallow in that because I don't give a shit.

    That's all I have to say on the subject of "the other viewpoint".

    Again with the stupid fucking insults. Now I am pissed.

     

    I have never once called someone who has a different opinion than me garbage or said they are shitty. If I did, I would have been banned from TK a long time ago because people ALWAYS will have different opinions. That doesn't make them garbage or shitty.

     

    Seriously it is this type of shit that makes me want to give society the finger. Since when can we no longer act like adults, realize that other people have different opinions, and move on?

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  • Fran1985 Fran1985 Narnia member
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    emmaaa said:
    emmaaa said:
    @Fran1985, let me get this straight .... we are (justifiably) upset that a man who shot Michael Brown will not have a truly fair trial.  And the police officer most likely shot Brown based on the color of his skin and what other people with the same skin color have done.  

    Yet, it seems that you think it's justified for my friend to get crap based on what other people in his line of work have done when he has done nothing wrong?

    Of course I don't think he should get crap, I just think its incredibly stupid to bring it up in this thread. The NYPD JUST killed someone this week. I don't really think its the time to be like oh man my poor cop friend, he might get insulted. We are talking about people getting killed, not about having to take unfair or unwarrented insults. I think in general we need to talk about police culture in this country.
    I think it is very dangerous to blame a whole group for one person's actions. One NYPD officer killed someone this week. Not the whole department. Not to say it doesn't need improvement but to lump a whole department together over one person's actions is irresponsible. What if someone said, "Well black people murdered my family" when really it was one black person who committed the crime, not the entire race.

    ETA: and obviously that example is made up

    Of course its dangerous to blame a whole group for one person's actions- have you read the beginning of this thread where people are doing it? Its problematic across the board. But we are getting to the point where a lot of police officers are using life ending force, so yes we do need to start questioning that.

     She mentioned that her NYPD friend would get crap for Ferguson, and I was pointing out that something similar just happened to the NYPD- the fact that she didn't know about it shows its really not getting enough attention.

    So, because other people in this thread (not me) grouped all of the protesters together that makes it okay for you to group the entire NYPD and police departments everywhere together based on the actions of few?

    I do understand that you were pointing out that he was probably getting crap because of the other officer with the NYPD and not so mush the situation in Ferguson.
    Please do not put words in my mouth, I never grouped the entire NYPD and police departments together or condemned the entire police force. I never said that they are all corrupt or bad people. I think tons are good people. It doesn't mean there isn't a real problem with what is going on with the police violence and violence in general in this country.

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  • theycallmelinztheycallmelinz Georgia member
    500 Love Its 500 Comments Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    l9i said:

    Genuine question and most likely a little off topic.  For those that are heavily against this and mentioning police shooting unarmed people, are you generally for higher gun regulation? 

    Not wanting to get into a whole other debate I was just curious whether the two things could be correlated.  My theory is those against the officer are for more gun restriction and those for the officer are not.

    I am for higher gun regulation but not for this reason. It's because of the school shootings and how easily people can get a hold of a gun. There are so many people who have properly registered their guns and are completely responsible and even if we have higher gun regulation, they will more than likely follow those rules. It's the irresponsible people who will not.

    Now I truly believe, banishment of firearms will not salvage this country. I believe that many people who went through with the shootings had mental illness or depression. Many of them didn't see therapists or psychiatrists. I believe that we as a country need to start recognizing that mental health is just as important as physical health and that we can start there to really address the problem of so many people suffering. 
    Totally agree with this. More gun regulation is only going to affect those that actually follow the rules. And as someone who works in the mental health field, I agree that it doesn't get enough attention, especially when it concerns helping those with mental illness rather than stigmatzing them.
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  • Maggie0829Maggie0829 Ravens & Bohs & Crabs & O's member
    Eighth Anniversary 10000 Comments 500 Love Its 25 Answers
    edited November 2014
    I really don't want to read garbage posts from garbage people. Too mad.

    Can someone just make a list of everyone who sucked in this thread so I can avoid them in the future? Thanks.
    The people who "suck" or are "garbage" is a matter of opinion.  And I think completely discounting someone's opinion because it doesn't align with yours is what causes some of the problems that we face in our country.
    Let me be specific then:

    Anyone who defended the cop, the shit decision, thinks black people are wrongfully upset, point out the irrelevant gas station theft the cop didn't know about, make comments based entirely on the veil of white privilege, or think white allies are being too PC or SJWs.

    How's that?
    Again you shouldn't discount others opinions because they don't align with yours.  People need to listen to each other and hear each other out when it comes to these situations instead of rushing to judgement and completely writing some off as "garbage" because you don't like what they have to say.  How do you expect any type of solution with an attitude like that?
    Alright. I guess it's really hard to read the "I'm steaming mad part" - so I guess I'll just start here.

    I don't plan to make a solution with people like that because they're fine with the status quo. I plan to move ahead with other allies and leave them to their shitty selves. I'm not crossing the aisle to shake hands with people like that any more than I will for anti-gay marriage people or anti-feminist people. I will move on despite them and I don't need to give them my time.

    And if that bothers you, then feel free to wallow in that because I don't give a shit.

    That's all I have to say on the subject of "the other viewpoint".
    You are making assumptions.  Just because someone has an opinion that is different from you doesn't mean that they aren't open to change.  Maybe they just need to be given more information, but when people like you seem so unwilling to help inform those that may be open to change but just aren't as informed you create a divide.

    Yes there are people who are dead set anit-abortion and anti-gay, but there are a lot more that just don't have the facts or are open to hearing a different side.  And for you to not be willing to speak to those who have different opinions from you makes you just as bad as those on the other side unwilling to hear opinions who are anit-abortion or anit-gay marriage.

    I really don't feel the need to wallow in anything.  I just think your attitude and those who share your attitude regardless of what they believe in is why coming to solutions and making change is so fucking difficult for this country.

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  • l9i said:

    Genuine question and most likely a little off topic.  For those that are heavily against this and mentioning police shooting unarmed people, are you generally for higher gun regulation? 

    Not wanting to get into a whole other debate I was just curious whether the two things could be correlated.  My theory is those against the officer are for more gun restriction and those for the officer are not.

    I am for higher gun regulation but not for this reason. It's because of the school shootings and how easily people can get a hold of a gun. There are so many people who have properly registered their guns and are completely responsible and even if we have higher gun regulation, they will more than likely follow those rules. It's the irresponsible people who will not.

    Now I truly believe, banishment of firearms will not salvage this country. I believe that many people who went through with the shootings had mental illness or depression. Many of them didn't see therapists or psychiatrists. I believe that we as a country need to start recognizing that mental health is just as important as physical health and that we can start there to really address the problem of so many people suffering. 
    Totally agree with this. More gun regulation is only going to affect those that actually follow the rules. And as someone who works in the mental health field, I agree that it doesn't get enough attention, especially when it concerns helping those with mental illness rather than stigmatzing them.
    Exactly, there should be a certain amount of gun regulation but if a bad person wants a gun, they're going to find a way to get it no matter the regulations. 

    When I was in high school I don't even think we had a therapist/counselor at my school. At my 2-year college, I found out we had a counselor because I explained to the head of the dorms why I wanted to move away from home. Wouldn't have known about it if she hadn't pointed me in the right direction in the first place. This HAS TO change. So many children suffer from depression and people chalk it up to teenage angst or rebellion but what they should be asking instead is "how can I help? How can I let them know that I am there to support them? Who can they talk to to guide them through this horrible time?"
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  • edited June 2015
  • edited June 2015
  • sarawifenowsarawifenow Denver, baby! member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary First Answer
    edited November 2014

    Again with the stupid fucking insults. Now I am pissed.

     

    I have never once called someone who has a different opinion than me garbage or said they are shitty. If I did, I would have been banned from TK a long time ago because people ALWAYS will have different opinions. That doesn't make them garbage or shitty.

     

    Seriously it is this type of shit that makes me want to give society the finger. Since when can we no longer act like adults, realize that other people have different opinions, and move on?

    Good thing you didn't post it, then. I did.
    And I'm okay with that.


    Clearly.

     

    ETA: And why is it ok to call people who don't agree with you garbage and shitty? I clearly don't agree with you can I have not called you garbage.

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  • emmaaaemmaaa North Carolina mod
    Moderator 2500 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary
    emmaaa said:
    emmaaa said:
    @Fran1985, let me get this straight .... we are (justifiably) upset that a man who shot Michael Brown will not have a truly fair trial.  And the police officer most likely shot Brown based on the color of his skin and what other people with the same skin color have done.  

    Yet, it seems that you think it's justified for my friend to get crap based on what other people in his line of work have done when he has done nothing wrong?

    Of course I don't think he should get crap, I just think its incredibly stupid to bring it up in this thread. The NYPD JUST killed someone this week. I don't really think its the time to be like oh man my poor cop friend, he might get insulted. We are talking about people getting killed, not about having to take unfair or unwarrented insults. I think in general we need to talk about police culture in this country.
    I think it is very dangerous to blame a whole group for one person's actions. One NYPD officer killed someone this week. Not the whole department. Not to say it doesn't need improvement but to lump a whole department together over one person's actions is irresponsible. What if someone said, "Well black people murdered my family" when really it was one black person who committed the crime, not the entire race.

    ETA: and obviously that example is made up

    Of course its dangerous to blame a whole group for one person's actions- have you read the beginning of this thread where people are doing it? Its problematic across the board. But we are getting to the point where a lot of police officers are using life ending force, so yes we do need to start questioning that.

     She mentioned that her NYPD friend would get crap for Ferguson, and I was pointing out that something similar just happened to the NYPD- the fact that she didn't know about it shows its really not getting enough attention.

    So, because other people in this thread (not me) grouped all of the protesters together that makes it okay for you to group the entire NYPD and police departments everywhere together based on the actions of few?

    I do understand that you were pointing out that he was probably getting crap because of the other officer with the NYPD and not so mush the situation in Ferguson.
    Please do not put words in my mouth, I never grouped the entire NYPD and police departments together or condemned the entire police force. I never said that they are all corrupt or bad people. I think tons are good people. It doesn't mean there isn't a real problem with what is going on with the police violence and violence in general in this country.
    Let's go back and read the bolded : " The NYPD JUST killed someone this week."

    I do see that you later said: But we are getting to the point where a lot of police officers are using life ending force, so yes we do need to start questioning that." 

    So I do see that you said "a lot" of police officers and not "all" police officers are "using life ending force" Where are the statistics that say a lot of officers kill someone? What is the definition of a lot? 

    You brought up that the NYPD (the who department apparently) killed someone and then later said: "Of course its dangerous to blame a whole group for one person's actions- have you read the beginning of this thread where people are doing it?" to justify yourself grouping the NYPD together. No you did not lump in all departments and I was exaggerating, I'm sorry to put those words in your mouth but I did not put words in your mouth as far as the NYPD.

    holyguacamole79
  • l9il9i Ohio member
    Third Anniversary 100 Love Its 100 Comments Name Dropper
    l9i said:

    Genuine question and most likely a little off topic.  For those that are heavily against this and mentioning police shooting unarmed people, are you generally for higher gun regulation? 

    Not wanting to get into a whole other debate I was just curious whether the two things could be correlated.  My theory is those against the officer are for more gun restriction and those for the officer are not.

    I am for higher gun regulation but not for this reason. It's because of the school shootings and how easily people can get a hold of a gun. There are so many people who have properly registered their guns and are completely responsible and even if we have higher gun regulation, they will more than likely follow those rules. It's the irresponsible people who will not.

    Now I truly believe, banishment of firearms will not salvage this country. I believe that many people who went through with the shootings had mental illness or depression. Many of them didn't see therapists or psychiatrists. I believe that we as a country need to start recognizing that mental health is just as important as physical health and that we can start there to really address the problem of so many people suffering. 
    Totally agree with this. More gun regulation is only going to affect those that actually follow the rules. And as someone who works in the mental health field, I agree that it doesn't get enough attention, especially when it concerns helping those with mental illness rather than stigmatzing them.

    I agree with you both to an extent.  My thoughts are more restriction, but also more trained personel that have the potential to minimize violent situations (such as school shootings).

    I was just curious because many people fixate on the "he should have used a taser" or just generally there aren't any situations were someone should be shot.  I have a few friends who are along these lines and also very "no one should own a gun".  Like I said, just curious!

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