I think we need to postpone the wedding.

flutteringinfl

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. I was going to suggest Care Credit but I see you're already aware of it, which is good. My dad's a dentist, practices in upstate NY. He also has some colleagues in your area. If you'd like, I can ask him about recommendations.

blabla89

Sending you lots and lots of hugs. Wish I had something more helpful to offer. At the end of the day it will work out, you'll marry your FI wearing your beautiful dress and have your nearest and dearest to celebrate with you. Maybe it would be good to give yourself a day to relax and not think too much about it.

JCbride2015

Fran1985 said:

I'm an idiot- I was reading that number as 900 and 1700, not 17,000- thats why I was so pro cc because I thought it was only about an $800 increase. That's a shit ton of money. I'm really sorry- there is no easy answer to this!

To ths statute of limitations question though, I would bet money its when you know about the injury. I think there is the famous case about a surgery and they left a sponge in. The sponge didn't cause problems until years later but you can't hold the patient to the actual injury if they have no way of knowing.

I looked into it and NJ has a two-year statute which runs from the date of injury.  There is tolling if you wouldn't have reasonably known about the injury.  Problem is I probably should have reasonably known because I didn't go to the dentist for a couple years in there and X-rays would have shown it.  However-- I just asked my old dentist for my X-rays-- and he says back in 2004 it was showing this problem!  So why didn't HE tell me?  I'm wondering if there is a way to sue both of them.  I have legal assistance as a benefit with my company (not free, but at a set 25% contingency fee) and I think I'm going to call them today.

rooz103

I know it's not an ideal solution, but how about an implant/flipper combination so you can hold off on the implant abutment and crowns until the benefits renew?

Could you see if your dentist can make you a flipper (temporary partial denture) so you can aesthetically have front teeth that will last you until 2016? Insurance doesn't usually cover it, but since it's front teeth you're talking about, there is a small chance that it will be covered. Ask your dentist to send a pre determination request to be 100% sure though since they run from $500-900.

Also, if you haven't asked already, you might ask what kind of temporary they're planning on and if it's okay to keep the temps for an extra year. Your situation isn't too uncommon (dental benefits get worse every year, I swear) so they'll likely have at least a few alternatives to make it work.

JCbride2015

rooz103 said:

I know it's not an ideal solution, but how about an implant/flipper combination so you can hold off on the implant abutment and crowns until the benefits renew? Could you see if your dentist can make you a flipper (temporary partial denture) so you can aesthetically have front teeth that will last you until 2016? Insurance doesn't usually cover it, but since it's front teeth you're talking about, there is a small chance that it will be covered. Ask your dentist to send a pre determination request to be 100% sure though since they run from $500-900. Also, if you haven't asked already, you might ask what kind of temporary they're planning on and if it's okay to keep the temps for an extra year. Your situation isn't too uncommon (dental benefits get worse every year, I swear) so they'll likely have at least a few alternatives to make it work.

They have already ordered the fancy temporary (although they can eat the cost if I decide to go somewhere else, not my problem).  I'm going to ask if I can keep it for longer than we initially planned-- if I can keep the temporary until after the wedding, I'll only pay around $6000-7000 now for the oral surgery/implants/temp now, and then deal with the extra cost for permanent crowns later.

SBmini

Oh this is awful! Do you own a home that you could take some equity out of? That would be your lowest interest option for payment. Personal loans are decent, my credit union' rate is 9%. So it's about twice a equity loan, but half a credit card. So if it is between a credit card and a personal loan, go with the personal loan! 

I think you are right with how insurance works to get the first half done NOW. Because waiting will cost you more in the long run. You should definitely push for some discount. The dentist's costs aren't 17k, they have room to negotiate. And you can sometimes work with your insurance company to reclassify stuff so they cover more, but that is hard. Maybe your dentist will work with you to count some of the stuff at the insurance rate, and others at their uninsured rate. Assuming they have an uninsured rate, a lot of places charge less if you don't have that insurance. My mom actually did all her root canals without insurance and paid about as much as she would have with insurance for this reason.

And definitely look at how the cost of losing your deposits compares to the interest rate you will pay if you finance stuff. It may be a wash, or close. If it is- I would charge it. You get what you want for basically the same amount. The only difference is that the extra money goes to your bank, opposed to your venues. 

But look, at the end of the day, what matters is your health and your happiness. In that order. 

LadyMillil

This all sucks. I'm so pissed at the dentist that found this years ago and didn't tell you, the orthodontist that caused the problem, and the dentist you see now for making such a HUGE error in the cost calculation. Honestly, how do you forget to include charges that almost double the price of the procedure in your estimate?

I do understand the money/postponing/changing your wedding plans issue you are facing. When DH was fired 4 months before our wedding we spent a couple weeks debating cancelling everything and just going to the courthouse. We ultimately decided to have the wedding we planned, with a lot of cutbacks on stuff, because celebrating with our family and friends was important to us. PPs have given a lot of great advice. I'm not sure if any of our strategies will help you because it sounds like you've done a lot of it already, but we cut back or cut out everything non-essential for the wedding, we significantly cut our day-to-day spending to eliminate anything that wasn't absolutely necessary, and I got a part time job.

natswild

I'm sorry this is happening to you, I hope that you can get some resolution that will work out.  Being in Canada, I certainly can't offer advice on the insurance front, But hopefully you can get the dentist down in price.  Costing double is completely insane.  Maybe consider seeing if there's a legal way to hold him to the original estimate?

Good luck, sending you hugs and all the wine

theycallmelinz

I don't have any advice that hasn't already been given, but I'm so sorry you're in this situation and I hope you're able to figure out a way to get the work done and not have to postpone the wedding. T&P!!

lc07

natswild said:

I'm sorry this is happening to you, I hope that you can get some resolution that will work out.  Being in Canada, I certainly can't offer advice on the insurance front, But hopefully you can get the dentist down in price.  Costing double is completely insane.  Maybe consider seeing if there's a legal way to hold him to the original estimate?

Good luck, sending you hugs and all the wine

I don't think I'd want a dentist working on me that was resentful of the job..

I'm really sorry, JC. "AH FUCK!" And throwing something off my desk is basically all I got for you right now. 

ohannabelle

Oh, this just sucks. If I win the lottery this week, you're good, but beyond that, I have no more helpful suggestions than have already been offered. It's just damned unfair. 

Huge hugs. 

Jells2dot0

Sending hugs your way. I think you've gotten some good advice, but there is no easy answer. I hope the dentist will get back to you with a reduced number.

JaniV123

OMG JC! my heart is breaking for you!!! I really have noo idea on any advise but i am sending you all the best vibes and wishing that you can solve all of this and keep your wedding plans as is. 

jenajjthr

More hugs to you JC....I wish I could offer you more. I'm dealing with H right now and his teeth, his dentist is being very generous and kind with us and letting us make payments to him instead of using a credit card to pay off the balance. Maybe with their HUGE mistake this dentist will do the same. And when I say make payments....I mean nice small easy payments that we can afford. Negotiate before and after wedding payments because they owe you, kwim?

LabLove86

JCbride2015 said:

loveislouder said:

In my area there are lots of dentists that are willing to put you on a payment plan so you get the dental work and then just pay them back. It's essentially a loan from the dentist.  Is that an option?

Yes-- I can get CareCredit but I'm only approved for $9000.

ETA: but also to put this amount in perspective.  Even if I qualified, to pay this amount off within the interest-free year would be payments of around $1500 per month.

I think she was talking about paying the Dental office back directly. Care Credit is a credit card company. Once the dental office is paid they no longer deal with Care Credit. 

The office I work with will do some payment plans depending on the patients reputation with the office.

I would see if you can do a payment plan with the dental office directly in conjunction with the 9K you can put on Care Credit. Even if you can only pay $50/month for the first year to pay off the CC (remember, if you take even day longer than the time you were approved for 0% - the interest (which I am pretty sure for Care Credit is ridiculous - like 23%)  will be applied to the entire amount initially charged - not only the remaining balance) then work on making bigger payments directly to the dental office. They may be willing to work out a deal with you like this due to the fact that THEY mis-quoted you. Its worth a shot.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. ::hugs::

JCbride2015

LabLove86 said:

JCbride2015 said:

loveislouder said:

In my area there are lots of dentists that are willing to put you on a payment plan so you get the dental work and then just pay them back. It's essentially a loan from the dentist.  Is that an option?

Yes-- I can get CareCredit but I'm only approved for $9000.

ETA: but also to put this amount in perspective.  Even if I qualified, to pay this amount off within the interest-free year would be payments of around $1500 per month.

I think she was talking about paying the Dental office back directly. Care Credit is a credit card company. Once the dental office is paid they no longer deal with Care Credit. 

The office I work with will do some payment plans depending on the patients reputation with the office.

I would see if you can do a payment plan with the dental office directly in conjunction with the 9K you can put on Care Credit. Even if you can only pay $50/month for the first year to pay off the CC (remember, if you take even day longer than the time you were approved for 0% - the interest (which I am pretty sure for Care Credit is ridiculous - like 23%)  will be applied to the entire amount initially charged - not only the remaining balance) then work on making bigger payments directly to the dental office. They may be willing to work out a deal with you like this due to the fact that THEY mis-quoted you. Its worth a shot.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. ::hugs::

Yes, I understand that CareCredit is a credit card.  My assumption is I cannot do a direct loan from the dentist since when I asked about payment plans they referred me to CareCredit.

To get $9000 paid off on CareCredit within one year, I'd have to pay $750 per month.  We are now talking about doubling that.  I just can't pay for this even if I could finance the entire thing over the course of a year.  The money mathematically is not there.

holyguacamole79

Fwiw, my dad has been a witness at trials where people had crappy dental work done and he ended up fixing it. Legal action could help.

Blergbot

That is all I've got.

arrippa

Hugs! I am sorry that you decided to postpone. FI and I did that as well, but we hadn't put any deposits down.

Getting dental work done may seem arbitrary to some people, but as someone who also paid thousands for a implant, it was the best thing I did.I was so self-conscious about it. I hated kissing FI with my missing tooth. 

steph861

This is seriously shitty. I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

wandajune6

I have no helpful advice or recommendations. I'm sorry that this is all happening to you. Hugs!

Kahlyla

JCbride2015 said:

LabLove86 said:

JCbride2015 said:

loveislouder said:

In my area there are lots of dentists that are willing to put you on a payment plan so you get the dental work and then just pay them back. It's essentially a loan from the dentist.  Is that an option?

Yes-- I can get CareCredit but I'm only approved for $9000.

ETA: but also to put this amount in perspective.  Even if I qualified, to pay this amount off within the interest-free year would be payments of around $1500 per month.

I think she was talking about paying the Dental office back directly. Care Credit is a credit card company. Once the dental office is paid they no longer deal with Care Credit. 

The office I work with will do some payment plans depending on the patients reputation with the office.

I would see if you can do a payment plan with the dental office directly in conjunction with the 9K you can put on Care Credit. Even if you can only pay $50/month for the first year to pay off the CC (remember, if you take even day longer than the time you were approved for 0% - the interest (which I am pretty sure for Care Credit is ridiculous - like 23%)  will be applied to the entire amount initially charged - not only the remaining balance) then work on making bigger payments directly to the dental office. They may be willing to work out a deal with you like this due to the fact that THEY mis-quoted you. Its worth a shot.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. ::hugs::

Yes, I understand that CareCredit is a credit card.  My assumption is I cannot do a direct loan from the dentist since when I asked about payment plans they referred me to CareCredit.

To get $9000 paid off on CareCredit within one year, I'd have to pay $750 per month.  We are now talking about doubling that.  I just can't pay for this even if I could finance the entire thing over the course of a year.  The money mathematically is not there.

What about using the CareCredit for the first year and then doing a balance transfer to a low-interest (or promotional rate, at least) credit card? And then, well, taking it from there... I know it's not ideal, it's just the only thing I can think of. :-( So sorry you're dealing with this.

SBmini

Kahlyla said:

JCbride2015 said:

LabLove86 said:

JCbride2015 said:

loveislouder said:

In my area there are lots of dentists that are willing to put you on a payment plan so you get the dental work and then just pay them back. It's essentially a loan from the dentist.  Is that an option?

Yes-- I can get CareCredit but I'm only approved for $9000.

ETA: but also to put this amount in perspective.  Even if I qualified, to pay this amount off within the interest-free year would be payments of around $1500 per month.

I think she was talking about paying the Dental office back directly. Care Credit is a credit card company. Once the dental office is paid they no longer deal with Care Credit. 

The office I work with will do some payment plans depending on the patients reputation with the office.

I would see if you can do a payment plan with the dental office directly in conjunction with the 9K you can put on Care Credit. Even if you can only pay $50/month for the first year to pay off the CC (remember, if you take even day longer than the time you were approved for 0% - the interest (which I am pretty sure for Care Credit is ridiculous - like 23%)  will be applied to the entire amount initially charged - not only the remaining balance) then work on making bigger payments directly to the dental office. They may be willing to work out a deal with you like this due to the fact that THEY mis-quoted you. Its worth a shot.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. ::hugs::

Yes, I understand that CareCredit is a credit card.  My assumption is I cannot do a direct loan from the dentist since when I asked about payment plans they referred me to CareCredit.

To get $9000 paid off on CareCredit within one year, I'd have to pay $750 per month.  We are now talking about doubling that.  I just can't pay for this even if I could finance the entire thing over the course of a year.  The money mathematically is not there.

What about using the CareCredit for the first year and then doing a balance transfer to a low-interest (or promotional rate, at least) credit card? And then, well, taking it from there... I know it's not ideal, it's just the only thing I can think of. :-( So sorry you're dealing with this.

This is a good idea. OR, take out a personal loan and pay it off with that to lower your interest to under 10%. 

JCbride2015

Personal loan might be the way to go.

I just talked to my dental insurance and some things are not adding up with what the dentist office front desk told me.  I'm going to ask tomorrow to speak with the dentist himself and get some straight answers out of him.

Good news is that insurance told me they will not downgrade me to denture coverage, so I should at least be able to get $2000 of coverage for my permanent crowns.  That's something, at least.

Here's where emotion and personal shit comes into it, though.  Now my dad, SM, and grandma know about this problem.  If I take out a loan for my teeth and go forward with the wedding plans (or take out a loan for the wedding) I will get so much judgment from them.  They are already judging the shit out of having a big wedding.  I know they aren't paying so they don't get a say, etc., but my dad is just going to be an ass about it.

beethery

JCbride2015 said:

Personal loan might be the way to go.

I just talked to my dental insurance and some things are not adding up with what the dentist office front desk told me.  I'm going to ask tomorrow to speak with the dentist himself and get some straight answers out of him.

Good news is that insurance told me they will not downgrade me to denture coverage, so I should at least be able to get $2000 of coverage for my permanent crowns.  That's something, at least.

Here's where emotion and personal shit comes into it, though.  Now my dad, SM, and grandma know about this problem.  If I take out a loan for my teeth and go forward with the wedding plans (or take out a loan for the wedding) I will get so much judgment from them.  They are already judging the shit out of having a big wedding.  I know they aren't paying so they don't get a say, etc., but my dad is just going to be an ass about it.

I just wouldn't say anything to them about it if you ended up taking out a loan. If they ask, just say you worked it out and hit up the ol' bean dip. If they ain't financing your teeth or your wedding, the finances aren't any of their business.

JCbride2015

beethery said:

JCbride2015 said:

Personal loan might be the way to go.

I just talked to my dental insurance and some things are not adding up with what the dentist office front desk told me.  I'm going to ask tomorrow to speak with the dentist himself and get some straight answers out of him.

Good news is that insurance told me they will not downgrade me to denture coverage, so I should at least be able to get $2000 of coverage for my permanent crowns.  That's something, at least.

Here's where emotion and personal shit comes into it, though.  Now my dad, SM, and grandma know about this problem.  If I take out a loan for my teeth and go forward with the wedding plans (or take out a loan for the wedding) I will get so much judgment from them.  They are already judging the shit out of having a big wedding.  I know they aren't paying so they don't get a say, etc., but my dad is just going to be an ass about it.

I just wouldn't say anything to them about it if you ended up taking out a loan. If they ask, just say you worked it out and hit up the ol' bean dip. If they ain't financing your teeth or your wedding, the finances aren't any of their business.

Yeah.  We'll see how it goes with the dentist on Monday and how bad the damage actually is.  I think I will call my main vendors and at least try to feel out how much we'd lose on our deposits, etc. and compare with the interest cost of carrying a loan for a few months.  I can always tell my family that we just "worked it out" with the dentist or something.

My grandmother made some soothing noises about maybe helping with the wedding?  But I don't want to count on that.

I still feel that my dad should step up and help with the teeth because he made all my medical decisions at the time and chose the orthodontist from hell.  Also, he has helped me with jack shit for anything else, not even college.  Not that I honestly expect that to change of course.

I just really don't want to postpone the wedding.  Damn.

daria24

I'm sorry this is all happening. It's ridiuculous that it's costing so much. The only thought I had is that if you call other dentists-they all have their own deals with Care Credit. Mine had 24 months no interest, so I had two years to pay it off. I can PM you their info. They also screwed up my estimate except in their case, they gave it to me for the price they quoted.

theartistformerlyknownas

Yeah I would definitely not take one second of shit from your dad if I were you. The time for him to have an opinion about this was when you were a minor in his care. Now that you're not he can fuck right off with the judgment. Blah.

Unfortunately I don't know if the dentist will have much better information... they're not usually the ones dealing directly with the insurance company, the staff is. So in this case, you want a staff that has their shit together even more than the dentist.

Come to Michigan and you can go to the dentist where my step-mom does the insurance billing (and my "family discount" for getting my wisdom teeth out consisted of her just not billing me whatever insurance didn't cover). She'll get things squared away for you. Our guest bed is super comfy and I make really good soup. 

holyguacamole79

lolo883 said:

Unfortunately I don't know if the dentist will have much better information... they're not usually the ones dealing directly with the insurance company, the staff is. So in this case, you want a staff that has their shit together even more than the dentist.

agreed. I know my dad doesn't handle the insurance / financial arrangements. But, it doesn't hurt to talk to him.

Jen4948

No advice but big hugs and best wishes. That truly sucks.