Chit Chat

FMIL & future marriage woes.

TL:DR: My FMIL is an enabler and I'm terrified. She has told my FI to quit school, keep a part time job with little pay and shitty benefits, just because he's "stressed". We're getting married in less than 9 months, & there is literally no possible way we can survive on just my salary + his part time pay.

Okay, here goes.

Back story: My FI had epilepsy for 10 years. It started when he was 16 & lasted until he was 26 (he had brain surgery almost 3 years ago & they fixed him! It's honestly a huge miracle and I'm really thankful for that. He'll be 3 years seizure free in May!). So, he's lived with his parent's basically all his life, he lived in an apartment with one of his friends for a couple of months before we met, but it didn't work out. He'd always have to depend on his parents or friends to drive him around before his surgery and I know that made him feel really shitty. So since he's finally getting to go to college & paying for it himself, he's still living at home. Which I'm totally okay with bc that saves us a lot of money in the long run.

He's the youngest of the 3 brothers, and the other 2 have had REALLY rough lives. His oldest brother killed himself in 2007 & his other brother has had drug addiction problems & has been in & out of jail for like 10 years now. So he's kinda like the "golden" child, & I think his mom is having a hard time letting him go. So, I guess my point is that FI's mom has been taking care of him for his WHOLE life, and he's depended on her for so much, up until the last 2 years, and I think it's bothering her that he doesn't need her anymore, so she's regressing back into baby-ing him.

FI graduates from his X Ray program in May, so right now, he's in school 4 days a week, then works 10hrs a day on the weekends. He's currently on the hunt for an X Ray position for when he graduates. He's had 1 interview & didn't get the job, and I think that's getting him down a bit, so I'm trying to encourage him and tell him that there's more jobs out there, he just has to be persistent & keep looking.

His MOTHER, on the other hand, is killing me. When he was in his 2nd semester of school, he was stressed bc he had a lot of tests & stuff (you know, like you do in regular school, duh), and FMIL told him to QUIT. SHE TOLD HIM TO QUIT SCHOOL. I was like wtf, ma?! Don't tell him that! He's finally getting to go back to school! Don't tell him to QUIT! I was so frigging pissed off. But luckily, he didn't take her advice.

NOW, as I mentioned, he's job hunting. He's bummed about that 1 job he didn't get, but he's got some really good connections with like 3 different hospitals, so I'm trying to be encouraging, bc I know how hard & discouraging job hunting can be. AND NOW, his mother is telling him to KEEP his part time position and give up hunting for a full time job. WE ARE GETTING MARRIED IN NOVEMBER WOMAN! I cannot fucking believe she even had that thought come across her mind! I totally understand him keeping the job UNTIL he finds a full time job, but not just saying "what the hell, forget it", & not searching for a full time job. He's BARELY making enough money to pay his car payment/insurance (which are his only debts thank god), but seriously, no. I'm making a decent salary, and have a really good stable position at my job right now, but I need his help! I can't be the only one working. I already work about 50 hours a week and I'm using my overtime pay to pay for our wedding. If we got married and he didn't have a full time job, I can't imagine how many hours a week I'd have to work to keep paying the bills. Holy fuck I'm stressing just thinking about it.

My FI is not lazy, his work ethic could use some tweaking, but he's in school & working when he can, but I feel like if my FMIL keeps sticking these thoughts in his head, he'll start thinking she's right and he'll end up thinking "Oh, khugz can work her ass off, and I'll just hang around working my 20 hours a week, no big deal". And it's not like I'm cracking my whip saying "No bitch, you'll work just as hard as me or we aren't doing this marriage thing", but I really don't think it's okay for my FMIL to think that I'll handle all the work and just let FI do whatever the fuck he wants.

I don't think he'll take her advice to heart, because I'm totally talking him out of it, but I know he wouldn't have even mentioned it to me if he hadn't already kind of entertained the idea of it. I'm just worried that she'll keep doing stuff like this when we're married. 

Sorry this is so long, and if you've read this far, I commend you (& also send you lots of hugs), but I'm just freaked the fuck out.

Wedding Countdown Ticker

image
«1

Re: FMIL & future marriage woes.

  • edited March 2015
    I think, if anything, you could potentially have a FI problem, not a FMIL problem. Yeah she's giving shitty advice that, if taken, could hinder you guys financially, but your FI is the one that makes the decision. As long as you and he are on the same page as your goals and where you want to be, it's just talk coming from her. Maybe he needs to cut the cord and not let her boss him around or baby him. 

    Either way, good luck! I'm sorry that she's being crazy but don't let her stress you out.

    ETA: great minds, @lyndausvi ;) 
    Anniversary



  • mikenbergermikenberger member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary First Answer
    edited March 2015
    khugs15 said:TL:DR: My FMIL is an enabler and I'm terrified. She has told my FI to quit school, keep a part time job with little pay and shitty benefits, just because he's "stressed". We're getting married in less than 9 months, & there is literally no possible way we can survive on just my salary + his part time pay.
    Okay, here goes.

    Back story: My FI had epilepsy for 10 years. It started when he was 16 & lasted until he was 26 (he had brain surgery almost 3 years ago & they fixed him! It's honestly a huge miracle and I'm really thankful for that. He'll be 3 years seizure free in May!). So, he's lived with his parent's basically all his life, he lived in an apartment with one of his friends for a couple of months before we met, but it didn't work out. He'd always have to depend on his parents or friends to drive him around before his surgery and I know that made him feel really shitty. So since he's finally getting to go to college & paying for it himself, he's still living at home. Which I'm totally okay with bc that saves us a lot of money in the long run.

    He's the youngest of the 3 brothers, and the other 2 have had REALLY rough lives. His oldest brother killed himself in 2007 & his other brother has had drug addiction problems & has been in & out of jail for like 10 years now. So he's kinda like the "golden" child, & I think his mom is having a hard time letting him go. So, I guess my point is that FI's mom has been taking care of him for his WHOLE life, and he's depended on her for so much, up until the last 2 years, and I think it's bothering her that he doesn't need her anymore, so she's regressing back into baby-ing him.

    FI graduates from his X Ray program in May, so right now, he's in school 4 days a week, then works 10hrs a day on the weekends. He's currently on the hunt for an X Ray position for when he graduates. He's had 1 interview & didn't get the job, and I think that's getting him down a bit, so I'm trying to encourage him and tell him that there's more jobs out there, he just has to be persistent & keep looking.

    His MOTHER, on the other hand, is killing me. When he was in his 2nd semester of school, he was stressed bc he had a lot of tests & stuff (you know, like you do in regular school, duh), and FMIL told him to QUIT. SHE TOLD HIM TO QUIT SCHOOL. I was like wtf, ma?! Don't tell him that! He's finally getting to go back to school! Don't tell him to QUIT! I was so frigging pissed off. But luckily, he didn't take her advice.

    NOW, as I mentioned, he's job hunting. He's bummed about that 1 job he didn't get, but he's got some really good connections with like 3 different hospitals, so I'm trying to be encouraging, bc I know how hard & discouraging job hunting can be. AND NOW, his mother is telling him to KEEP his part time position and give up hunting for a full time job. WE ARE GETTING MARRIED IN NOVEMBER WOMAN! I cannot fucking believe she even had that thought come across her mind! I totally understand him keeping the job UNTIL he finds a full time job, but not just saying "what the hell, forget it", & not searching for a full time job. He's BARELY making enough money to pay his car payment/insurance (which are his only debts thank god), but seriously, no. I'm making a decent salary, and have a really good stable position at my job right now, but I need his help! I can't be the only one working. I already work about 50 hours a week and I'm using my overtime pay to pay for our wedding. If we got married and he didn't have a full time job, I can't imagine how many hours a week I'd have to work to keep paying the bills. Holy fuck I'm stressing just thinking about it.

    My FI is not lazy, his work ethic could use some tweaking, but he's in school & working when he can, but I feel like if my FMIL keeps sticking these thoughts in his head, he'll start thinking she's right and he'll end up thinking "Oh, khugz can work her ass off, and I'll just hang around working my 20 hours a week, no big deal". And it's not like I'm cracking my whip saying "No bitch, you'll work just as hard as me or we aren't doing this marriage thing", but I really don't think it's okay for my FMIL to think that I'll handle all the work and just let FI do whatever the fuck he wants.

    I don't think he'll take her advice to heart, because I'm totally talking him out of it, but I know he wouldn't have even mentioned it to me if he hadn't already kind of entertained the idea of it. I'm just worried that she'll keep doing stuff like this when we're married. 

    Sorry this is so long, and if you've read this far, I commend you (& also send you lots of hugs), but I'm just freaked the fuck out.

    ******STUPID KT AND THE LACK OF BOXES!!!*******


    You shouldn't have to talk him out of or into anything. He should want to do these things: like work (If that's what's important to you: having a supportive partner) And she'll probably keep doing this when you're married. It's up to FI to have a talk with his mom to tell her to knock it off. But it's up to him not to take her advice and if he does start listening to Mommy Dearest, you've got a far bigger problem on your hands. I'd be more concerned that you're concerned he
    will be taking her advice one day. He's an adult. He's either going to act like one or he'll be living with his parents forever. 

    Do you two have any plans of living together prior to marriage or him at least living out from under his parents for a year or two prior to marriage? Could make a world of difference for him to be independent for a bit before just jumping into living with another woman that may potentially be caring for him as Mommy does. 

    Are you paying for the entire wedding on your own with just your salary?

    ETA: Along with my other two smarty pants PPs... You've got a FI issue. Not a FMIL issue.

    image
  • Yeah, FMIL is nuts but your FI gets to make his own decisions. If he really would entertain the ideas she's putting into his head then the issue is with him. 

    Ugh that is stressful. I'm a little concerned that he has no idea what it's like to live without his mom and you guys are getting married soonish. That's going to be a tough trasition considering he's used to being babied by her.
     




  • mikenberger said what I was trying to say while I was typing it!
     




  • Sugargirl1019Sugargirl1019 member
    Seventh Anniversary 1000 Comments 500 Love Its Combo Breaker
    edited March 2015
    It sounds like.. You'll have to have a few boundaries regarding what's happening and what gets to happen next. For instance, we got married 2 months after DH graduated from college. If he was unable to graduate and find a job, we would have pushed the wedding back so he could focus on school. It was important to both of us to be employed full-time saving money because we planned to pay off (almost) all our debt once we got married. So have a conversation about what's important to you in life regarding expectations in providing and the budget. You need to be happy with your marriage too, not stressing out about making it work.

    Be your FIs biggest fan. Cheer him on, encourage him to graduate and find a full-time job, share with him budgets and how excited you are to be less stressed by having x amount to save each month.. and what you guys can do together with the savings. Hopefully he will continue to be motivated by helping to provide and make an awesome lifestyle together. If FIs mom says "don't look for a fulltime job, it's too stressful on you" then remind your FI, that doesn't fit in to our plan. You might have to tell your FMIL as sweetly as possible that it doesn't fit into yalls plan and also FI is doing such a great job, hardworking, succeeding, you are positive he can do this.

    ETA: and yea, FI will need to tell mommy to step off, he's making his own grownup decisions now with his future wife.

    image   image   image

  • You know the history. Why did you set a wedding date before your Fi had a full time job?


                       
  • You know the history. Why did you set a wedding date before your Fi had a full time job?


    We set a wedding date for 6 months after he graduated so that it would give him plenty of time to find a full time job. 
    Wedding Countdown Ticker

    image
  • Sugargirl1019Sugargirl1019 member
    Seventh Anniversary 1000 Comments 500 Love Its Combo Breaker
    edited March 2015
    khugs15 said:

    You know the history. Why did you set a wedding date before your Fi had a full time job?


    We set a wedding date for 6 months after he graduated so that it would give him plenty of time to find a full time job. 
    And this is okay, it is what we did, but you need to be okay with staying true to your wishes and be responsible for yourself by pushing the wedding back if it doesn't go as planned. You have a choice in how it goes, too :smile:

    ETA: you don't want to be breaking your back working so hard while FI doesn't provide enough, then don't allow it to be that way.

    image   image   image

  • lyndausvi said:Question:  Have you sat down and created a budget for when you do move in together?  
    It's one thing to live off your parents.  It's another to live off your parents and have no clue about living on your own.   Does he have any concept of how much electric costs?   Power?  Groceries? Rent?  Cable?  
    Living with your parents can be a costs savings, but it can also be a rude awakening if you use that time to put your head in the sand and not realize exactly how much you really cost to live.



    Yes, we have created a budget together for when he gets a full time job AND a budget for if he stays part time for a while. It's obviously doable either way, but the part time budget obviously isn't
    my ideal budget, just means I wouldn't get the nice house that I want right away.

    It does worry me a little bit that he hasn't really experienced living on his own yet, but that's why we've created that budget, so I could show him what it's really gonna be like. I think I'm gonna have to have another little come to jesus meeting with him soon because I still don't think he really "
    gets it".
    Wedding Countdown Ticker

    image
  • mikenbergermikenberger member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary First Answer
    edited March 2015
    khugs15 said:

    lyndausvi said:

    Question:  Have you sat down and created a budget for when you do move in together?  


    It's one thing to live off your parents.  It's another to live off your parents and have no clue about living on your own.   Does he have any concept of how much electric costs?   Power?  Groceries? Rent?  Cable?  

    Living with your parents can be a costs savings, but it can also be a rude awakening if you use that time to put your head in the sand and not realize exactly how much you really cost to live.


    Yes, we have created a budget together for when he gets a full time job AND a budget for if he stays part time for a while. It's obviously doable either way, but the part time budget obviously isn't my ideal budget, just means I wouldn't get the nice house that I want right away.

    It does worry me a little bit that he hasn't really experienced living on his own yet, but that's why we've created that budget, so I could show him what it's really gonna be like. I think I'm gonna have to have another little come to jesus meeting with him soon because I still don't think he really "
    gets it".
    ******Sweet Jesus TK. BOXES. YOU BITCHES. BOXES.******



    I think he really needs the opportunity to be on his own. This is going to be, I fear, a very parental relationship for you versus a partnership. Some women are perfectly okay with that and rather enjoy telling their husbands what to do/how to conduct themselves. And some men are perfectly okay with that lifestyle as well. You just have to decide what's right for you.

    image
  • OP, I know this isn't the advice you want to hear, but I don't think you have a realistic goal to get married in November.


    If he has no savings, no job, and no plan- and you're paying for this entire wedding by working overtime, you should probably be saving some money in case you lose your job. What if that happens?  - my parents are graciously giving me X amount to do with what I please (wedding, house, honeymoon, just to keep, whatever), so I have that in my savings as a back up in case anything like that happens. I can pay for the wedding myself, they just wanted to help.

    Do you have a place he could move in with you for a while after he gets a full-time job and you guys can sort out bills and saving some money for life expenses? I also think you both need some "transition time" if he only had one roommate ever and  that didn't work out. He's never been financially independent. 
    To the bolded, he does have savings which I forgot to mention, so that does help a little.

    We've talked about him getting an apartment on his own in May when he graduates so he can have that experience. I think I may mention that to him again soon. I just really want him to get out of his parent's house.
    Wedding Countdown Ticker

    image
  • lyndausvi said:

    khugs15 said:

    lyndausvi said:

    Question:  Have you sat down and created a budget for when you do move in together?  


    It's one thing to live off your parents.  It's another to live off your parents and have no clue about living on your own.   Does he have any concept of how much electric costs?   Power?  Groceries? Rent?  Cable?  

    Living with your parents can be a costs savings, but it can also be a rude awakening if you use that time to put your head in the sand and not realize exactly how much you really cost to live.


    Yes, we have created a budget together for when he gets a full time job AND a budget for if he stays part time for a while. It's obviously doable either way, but the part time budget obviously isn't my ideal budget, just means I wouldn't get the nice house that I want right away.

    It does worry me a little bit that he hasn't really experienced living on his own yet, but that's why we've created that budget, so I could show him what it's really gonna be like. I think I'm gonna have to have another little come to jesus meeting with him soon because I still don't think he really "
    gets it".











    ***************** pretend this is a box   *********************************





    He seems lazy to me.  He also doesn't sound like he has the same financial goals as you do.

     I gathering he looked at both budgets and thinks "look.  She showed me we can live with me just working part-time.  What's the big deal?"




    I don't think so, I think this is putting a label on him that he actually hasn't said. He never said I'm going to listen to mommy, OP is just afraid her FMIL is having such a strong presence in the decisions of this relationship that she might influence him. He needs to tell mommy to step off.

    image   image   image

  • I find it really concerning that you worry that he might take her advice. Why isn't being your partner and the marriage his number one priority?

    My MIL tells H to do stupid shit all the time. (Like when she told him to put off job hunting while he was laid off so that he'd be free to go on a vacation with her family.) I married him anyway because I know he ignores her.

  • khugs15 said:

    OP, I know this isn't the advice you want to hear, but I don't think you have a realistic goal to get married in November.


    If he has no savings, no job, and no plan- and you're paying for this entire wedding by working overtime, you should probably be saving some money in case you lose your job. What if that happens?  - my parents are graciously giving me X amount to do with what I please (wedding, house, honeymoon, just to keep, whatever), so I have that in my savings as a back up in case anything like that happens. I can pay for the wedding myself, they just wanted to help.

    Do you have a place he could move in with you for a while after he gets a full-time job and you guys can sort out bills and saving some money for life expenses? I also think you both need some "transition time" if he only had one roommate ever and  that didn't work out. He's never been financially independent. 
    To the bolded, he does have savings which I forgot to mention, so that does help a little.

    We've talked about him getting an apartment on his own in May when he graduates so he can have that experience. I think I may mention that to him again soon. I just really want him to get out of his parent's house.
    I'm all for living together, if you can, to see how everything would be like! Although I'm not going to tell you to move in together if you don't find that morally right.

    image   image   image

  • tpwkalyntpwkalyn member
    Eighth Anniversary 100 Love Its 100 Comments Combo Breaker
    edited March 2015

    It sounds like.. You'll have to have a few boundaries regarding what's happening and what gets to happen next. For instance, we got married 2 months after DH graduated from college. If he was unable to graduate and find a job, we would have pushed the wedding back so he could focus on school. It was important to both of us to be employed full-time saving money because we planned to pay off (almost) all our debt once we got married. So have a conversation about what's important to you in life regarding expectations in providing and the budget. You need to be happy with your marriage too, not stressing out about making it work.

    Be your FIs biggest fan. Cheer him on, encourage him to graduate and find a full-time job, share with him budgets and how excited you are to be less stressed by having x amount to save each month.. and what you guys can do together with the savings. Hopefully he will continue to be motivated by helping to provide and make an awesome lifestyle together. If FIs mom says "don't look for a fulltime job, it's too stressful on you" then remind your FI, that doesn't fit in to our plan. You might have to tell your FMIL as sweetly as possible that it doesn't fit into yalls plan and also FI is doing such a great job, hardworking, succeeding, you are positive he can do this.

    ETA: and yea, FI will need to tell mommy to step off, he's making his own grownup decisions now with his future wife

    <<< WTF NO

    ****************SITB DAMN TK****************************

    To the bolded, yes, that is exactly our plan! This is all really good advice & I really REALLY and truly appreciate all of it, from everyone. I knew all you knotties would know what to say :)

    Wedding Countdown Ticker

    image
  • It sounds like he needs to talk to his mom... and to himself. He is an adult.  Yes, he has had a disability that has caused him to lean on his parents more than normal, but it's okay for him to grow up and be an independent adult now that he's better.  He needs to find the confidence in himself to do this, which can be hard when mommy is still treating him like a disabled baby. He needs to tell his mom that he is okay now and needs to start living his own life and she needs to learn to let go a little bit and let him be a normal adult. And that can be super hard for a parent.  I have had some health issues in the past and my parents still worry when I do anything that could potentially cause problems.  I just have to tell them that I'm an adult, I've considered risks of my choices and I've taken their opinions into consideration, but I need to make my own decisions. And I'm sure it's hard for him too, to step out into adulthood without that safety net. And probably to still trust that he is actually better and to live life without fearing a return of the seizures.  So, I agree with others that it's a FI problem... he needs to learn to step up and be a healthy adult.

    image 

  • tpwkalyntpwkalyn member
    Eighth Anniversary 100 Love Its 100 Comments Combo Breaker
    edited March 2015

    khugs15 said:

    lyndausvi said:

    Question:  Have you sat down and created a budget for when you do move in together?  


    It's one thing to live off your parents.  It's another to live off your parents and have no clue about living on your own.   Does he have any concept of how much electric costs?   Power?  Groceries? Rent?  Cable?  

    Living with your parents can be a costs savings, but it can also be a rude awakening if you use that time to put your head in the sand and not realize exactly how much you really cost to live.


    Yes, we have created a budget together for when he gets a full time job AND a budget for if he stays part time for a while. It's obviously doable either way, but the part time budget obviously isn't my ideal budget, just means I wouldn't get the nice house that I want right away.

    It does worry me a little bit that he hasn't really experienced living on his own yet, but that's why we've created that budget, so I could show him what it's really gonna be like. I think I'm gonna have to have another little come to jesus meeting with him soon because I still don't think he really "
    gets it".











    ***************** pretend this is a box   *********************************





    He seems lazy to me.  He also doesn't sound like he has the same financial goals as you do.

     I gathering he looked at both budgets and thinks "look.  She showed me we can live with me just working part-time.  What's the big deal?"




    I don't think so, I think this is putting a label on him that he actually hasn't said. He never said I'm going to listen to mommy, OP is just afraid her FMIL is having such a strong presence in the decisions of this relationship that she might influence him. He needs to tell mommy to step off.****** box *******

    You hit the nail on the head. I think that if he moved out in May this would solve a lot of our problems. Lately, I've been feeling like I'm the one who needs to say something to FMIL, but now I realize that it's really his responsibility to do something about it, not mine.
    Wedding Countdown Ticker

    image
  • @khugs15 Yes, your FI needs to always be the one to speak with his mother. If you do, you will become evil in her eyes and you have to live with this woman in your life for a long time! Don't give her a reason to hate you for "stealing her son away".

    image   image   image

  • You know the history. Why did you set a wedding date before your Fi had a full time job?


    This is what I'm wondering.

    But I can play the other side and see what you're talking about. Your FI may be conditioned to lean on his mom for support and never really got on his own 2 feet. This is the perfect time for him to stand up for himself and choose himself what to do.

    Sure, he's learned to rely on her and take her advice, but now that he's getting married, he needs to realize that he needs to make his own decisions. He made a decision to marry you, he needs to do the same with his future job and other life choices. 

    He should tell his mom thank you for the advice, but I want a full time job. He's a grown up and wants to be a partner in his marriage, not a dependent. He needs to tell or show her that he's not that stressed that he can't handle anything without mommy. He has his FI for support. 
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 
    Funny Awkward animated GIF
  • If your FI is not listening to your FMIL, then  you are just borrowing trouble.    Just ignore her and stop worrying.  I think most parents throw out some weird suggestions from time to time.   Just bean dip and move on.

    If your FI IS listening to your FMIL, then you have a FI problem. 






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
  • I feel like you're choosing to marry a man child, and I just can't understand why anyone would do that.

    *shrugs*

    lol, he's not really a man-child. Just a dude who went through a lot and is struggling a little bit getting out on his own.
    Wedding Countdown Ticker

    image
  • khugs15 said:

    You know the history. Why did you set a wedding date before your Fi had a full time job?


    We set a wedding date for 6 months after he graduated so that it would give him plenty of time to find a full time job. 
    Six months hasn't been "plenty of time to find a full time job" since the 90's.
    True, which is why we agreed to move the wedding back if he doesn't find a full time job by then. Also, with the connections he has and the general good standing he has with the 2 hospitals he currently "works" at (he works at one, and has clinicals at the other), he has a pretty good shot. I know that's nothing concrete, but it does help.
    Wedding Countdown Ticker

    image
  • lyndausvi said:

    If your FI is not listening to your FMIL, then  you are just borrowing trouble.    Just ignore her and stop worrying.  I think most parents throw out some weird suggestions from time to time.   Just bean dip and move on.


    If your FI IS listening to your FMIL, then you have a FI problem. 
    This. 

    FMIL can only be an enabler if he wants what she's offering (quit school/quit his job). If someone doesn't want to be enabled, they follow their own path and make decisions for themselves. 
    image
  • I think part of your conversation with FI needs to be that you are worried that he may listen to FMIL's suggestion to quit school.  Tell him that you two have discussed certain goals, one of which is him having a full time job, and you are worried that he will listen to FMIL.  Then listen to his response and go from there. 
This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards