I'm surprised no one has brought up Baltimore..

novella1186

abcdevonn said:

novella1186 said:

pinkrevenge said:

Rioting, in my mind, is actually pretty easy to understand.
Ever been so mad you wanted to swipe everything off your desk or throw your phone against the wall or just break something? You're just so upset that even though you know destruction is a bad idea, your lizard brain is screaming for something to be broken?

Imagine knowing your entire life that because of your skin color, you're going to be followed in shops and given less of a chance and always be treated lesser. Then a member of the law kills someone, very plainly, and gets away with it? All the anger you've had to keep down your entire life, all the times you had to go out of your way to appear harmless, and this is the reward.
How mad are you?

Yeah, my initial reaction was "What will the riots help? Why?" but then I thought about the anger and frustration behind it, and what some people have to face every day of their lives. 

I try to relate to situations as much as possible to gain some sort of understanding from another perspective, because I don't ever want to be the type to judge people unfairly-- especially based on a situation I've never faced and couldn't understand. 

I remember feeling like I wanted to burn the whole city down when I was in high school and being bullied for being Jewish. The guy would scream things at me in class, in front of everyone (like "YOU STUPID JEWISH WHORE!" and "It's too bad Hitler didn't finish his good work! Someone should!") and some people would LAUGH. They would laugh. Sometimes the teachers weren't in the room when it happened but sometimes they were and didn't do a thing about it. Sometimes they would report it to the principal, and the principal never did a thing about it. This kid's dad was called in for a conference, during which the dad made anti-Jewish comments and no one fucking cared. 

The kid and the dad then devised a plan to order a huge box of yarmulkes online, pass them out at school, and have everyone wear them while they danced around me and said racial slurs, to get back at me for having him called into the principal's office. Honest to god, this was a real plan that was in the works, and some other kids in school committed to it and wanted to join it. 

This went on for more than 2 years and the kid was never punished for it and he never stopped. Even after high school he would call and leave long, screaming voicemails full of racial slurs. 

The rage and frustration I felt was unbearable. Being in a minority group that is full of negative stereotypes that so many people think is completely acceptable is sometimes unbearable. 

At the same time, I've always known I am lucky because I can easily conceal the fact that I'm Jewish. Anyone who doesn't know me doesn't know what I am, as long as I don't tell them. Black people don't have that. They don't get to conceal anything. People look at their skin color and it's game over. From a distance. Without even having to speak to them. I can't imagine that. My sitation doesn't even come close to comparing to that. 

I can't imagine spending my entire life having people look at me with suspicion or thinking I somehow rose above something for not being a criminal or the billion other horrible, ignorant stereotypes and judgements. And a lot of these things are considered socially acceptable by a lot of people. Like the political figures who use the word "thug" on national TV. 

I'd like to burn shit to the ground just watching what other people have to go through while no one does a fucking thing about it, and I'm not even a victim of that kind of treatment. 

Sorry that this post became extremely long. Did not mean to do that. 

I'm so sorry this happened to you. I'm sorry anything like this has to happen to anybody. And I have to honestly say it has taken me reading things in this thread to begin to understand this type of rioting, but I fell like I am starting to see it, and it just makes me sick to think how far these people have been pushed, and how often they have been pushed, to make them turn to this. I know part of my lack of understanding is just because I don't handle anger in that way...which is probably abnormal and potentially unhealthy. But reading about this and hearing it from so many different people was really eye-opening to me. 

I just want to know how we (the general "we") can start to address these problems. Obviously people in power are NOT doing enough or not doing it quickly enough.

ETA: Spelling

Thank you, and I'm sorry too because it just keeps happening. 

This thread was eye-opening to me in some ways as well. That's one of the reasons I love TK; it's full of well-informed, intelligent ladies who can debate things in a calm and logical way, and I often learn things or gain perspective on things, which is awesome. 

esstee had a great post a page or so back about what "white allies" can actually do that would matter. I think one major thing is to stop accepting this shit as the norm, and stop with the attitude that "it doesn't affect me so it's not my problem." [ETA, I'm not accusing you or anyone else in this thread of having such an attitude. I just hear it a lot IRL in general] These two sentiments are both extremely problematic. When you hear someone say that, talk to them about it. 

I just wish more people would read things and learn things and keep an open mind rather than sit back and judge. 

[Deleted User]

novella1186 said:

abcdevonn said:

novella1186 said:

pinkrevenge said:

Rioting, in my mind, is actually pretty easy to understand.
Ever been so mad you wanted to swipe everything off your desk or throw your phone against the wall or just break something? You're just so upset that even though you know destruction is a bad idea, your lizard brain is screaming for something to be broken?

Imagine knowing your entire life that because of your skin color, you're going to be followed in shops and given less of a chance and always be treated lesser. Then a member of the law kills someone, very plainly, and gets away with it? All the anger you've had to keep down your entire life, all the times you had to go out of your way to appear harmless, and this is the reward.
How mad are you?

Yeah, my initial reaction was "What will the riots help? Why?" but then I thought about the anger and frustration behind it, and what some people have to face every day of their lives. 

I try to relate to situations as much as possible to gain some sort of understanding from another perspective, because I don't ever want to be the type to judge people unfairly-- especially based on a situation I've never faced and couldn't understand. 

I remember feeling like I wanted to burn the whole city down when I was in high school and being bullied for being Jewish. The guy would scream things at me in class, in front of everyone (like "YOU STUPID JEWISH WHORE!" and "It's too bad Hitler didn't finish his good work! Someone should!") and some people would LAUGH. They would laugh. Sometimes the teachers weren't in the room when it happened but sometimes they were and didn't do a thing about it. Sometimes they would report it to the principal, and the principal never did a thing about it. This kid's dad was called in for a conference, during which the dad made anti-Jewish comments and no one fucking cared. 

The kid and the dad then devised a plan to order a huge box of yarmulkes online, pass them out at school, and have everyone wear them while they danced around me and said racial slurs, to get back at me for having him called into the principal's office. Honest to god, this was a real plan that was in the works, and some other kids in school committed to it and wanted to join it. 

This went on for more than 2 years and the kid was never punished for it and he never stopped. Even after high school he would call and leave long, screaming voicemails full of racial slurs. 

The rage and frustration I felt was unbearable. Being in a minority group that is full of negative stereotypes that so many people think is completely acceptable is sometimes unbearable. 

At the same time, I've always known I am lucky because I can easily conceal the fact that I'm Jewish. Anyone who doesn't know me doesn't know what I am, as long as I don't tell them. Black people don't have that. They don't get to conceal anything. People look at their skin color and it's game over. From a distance. Without even having to speak to them. I can't imagine that. My sitation doesn't even come close to comparing to that. 

I can't imagine spending my entire life having people look at me with suspicion or thinking I somehow rose above something for not being a criminal or the billion other horrible, ignorant stereotypes and judgements. And a lot of these things are considered socially acceptable by a lot of people. Like the political figures who use the word "thug" on national TV. 

I'd like to burn shit to the ground just watching what other people have to go through while no one does a fucking thing about it, and I'm not even a victim of that kind of treatment. 

Sorry that this post became extremely long. Did not mean to do that. 

I'm so sorry this happened to you. I'm sorry anything like this has to happen to anybody. And I have to honestly say it has taken me reading things in this thread to begin to understand this type of rioting, but I fell like I am starting to see it, and it just makes me sick to think how far these people have been pushed, and how often they have been pushed, to make them turn to this. I know part of my lack of understanding is just because I don't handle anger in that way...which is probably abnormal and potentially unhealthy. But reading about this and hearing it from so many different people was really eye-opening to me. 

I just want to know how we (the general "we") can start to address these problems. Obviously people in power are NOT doing enough or not doing it quickly enough.

ETA: Spelling

Thank you, and I'm sorry too because it just keeps happening. 

This thread was eye-opening to me in some ways as well. That's one of the reasons I love TK; it's full of well-informed, intelligent ladies who can debate things in a calm and logical way, and I often learn things or gain perspective on things, which is awesome. 

esstee had a great post a page or so back about what "white allies" can actually do that would matter. I think one major thing is to stop accepting this shit as the norm, and stop with the attitude that "it doesn't affect me so it's not my problem." [ETA, I'm not accusing you or anyone else in this thread of having such an attitude. I just hear it a lot IRL in general] These two sentiments are both extremely problematic. When you hear someone say that, talk to them about it. 

I just wish more people would read things and learn things and keep an open mind rather than sit back and judge. 

I did read those yesterday and have committed them to memory. Esstee, they were great! I am just wondering if there are things that can be done regarding policing/laws. I really have no idea, and I imagine it would just be "write to your senators" but there has to be something more productive...right?

dolewhipper

abcdevonn said:

novella1186 said:

abcdevonn said:

novella1186 said:

pinkrevenge said:

I did read those yesterday and have committed them to memory. Esstee, they were great! I am just wondering if there are things that can be done regarding policing/laws. I really have no idea, and I imagine it would just be "write to your senators" but there has to be something more productive...right?

Agreed, there has to be more. I did get in a discussion with a co-worker about this (big mistake). However, I did get him to stop using "they" and go with "most" when it comes to him using his statistics.

I'm not that good with debating topics; I'll be honest. And I don't think I'm that great at it. But I'll try, and hopefully get better with time.   

[Deleted User]

.

esstee33

pinkrevenge said:

Just fantastic.

4chan racists faking looting

I cannot with 4chan (and Reddit, for that matter). What cesspools. It's absolutely beyond me how awful a person you have to be to take an event like this and make it your platform to spread more hate and misinformation. 

KatieinBkln

I understand the riots. I've been seized by impotent rage momentarily in my life, and for much lesser offenses than the Black community in the US faces daily; if I extrapolate that feeling, magnify it to the near-constant level it must be for so many POC who must live in fear for their lives and their children's lives, I'm actually shocked that there isn't MORE rioting and violence.

Re: the mother who hit her son and pulled him away--a friend shared this on Facebook and I found it illuminating. It eloquently captures why I felt so gross about how many white friends were applauding her: http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/04/29/why-is-america-celebrating-the-beating-of-a-black-child/

esstee33

KatieinBkln said:

I understand the riots. I've been seized by impotent rage momentarily in my life, and for much lesser offenses than the Black community in the US faces daily; if I extrapolate that feeling, magnify it to the near-constant level it must be for so many POC who must live in fear for their lives and their children's lives, I'm actually shocked that there isn't MORE rioting and violence.

Re: the mother who hit her son and pulled him away--a friend shared this on Facebook and I found it illuminating. It eloquently captures why I felt so gross about how many white friends were applauding her: http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/04/29/why-is-america-celebrating-the-beating-of-a-black-child/

Yeah, there are a whole lot of people who need to see that article. Specifically, all of the idiots parroting the "WHERE ARE THEIR PARENTS?" horseshit. 

littlepep

Came across this great article and wanted to share: http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/04/what-white-folks-need-to-know-about-baltimoreuprising/

bethsmiles

The officers involved are being charged with homicide, manslaughter and misconduct charges.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html?_r=0

Can someone answer this for me - does this mean this case will actually go to trial? Or is this the step before a grand jury like in Ferguson and the other recent cases of police brutality and clearly institutionalized racism that have been in the news?  

lyndausvi

bethsmiles said:

The officers involved are being charged with homicide, manslaughter and misconduct charges.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html?_r=0

Can someone answer this for me - does this mean this case will actually go to trial? Or is this the step before a grand jury like in Ferguson and the other recent cases of police brutality and clearly institutionalized racism that have been in the news?  

i heard this AG doesn't believe it should go to the Grand Jury and she would determine what, if any, charges would be charged.

[Deleted User]

.

chibiyui

bethsmiles said:

The officers involved are being charged with homicide, manslaughter and misconduct charges.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html?_r=0

Can someone answer this for me - does this mean this case will actually go to trial? Or is this the step before a grand jury like in Ferguson and the other recent cases of police brutality and clearly institutionalized racism that have been in the news?  

I am honestly surprised that charges were actually brought forth in this case. I thought for sure they were going to sweep it under the rug.

[Deleted User]

pinkrevenge said:

lyndausvi said:

bethsmiles said:

The officers involved are being charged with homicide, manslaughter and misconduct charges.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html?_r=0

Can someone answer this for me - does this mean this case will actually go to trial? Or is this the step before a grand jury like in Ferguson and the other recent cases of police brutality and clearly institutionalized racism that have been in the news?  

i heard this AG doesn't believe it should go to the Grand Jury and she would determine what, if any, charges would be charged.

.... Ya broke someone's neck. You broke their fucking neck and they died.

Wha-
How-


I can't.

Hasn't the state already pressed charges? I thought they procured warrants for the officers' arrests?Maybe I am a bit confused about how this works. I am REALLY hoping this goes to a full trial and not a grand jury. 

southernbelle0915

pinkrevenge said:

lyndausvi said:

bethsmiles said:

The officers involved are being charged with homicide, manslaughter and misconduct charges.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html?_r=0

Can someone answer this for me - does this mean this case will actually go to trial? Or is this the step before a grand jury like in Ferguson and the other recent cases of police brutality and clearly institutionalized racism that have been in the news?  

i heard this AG doesn't believe it should go to the Grand Jury and she would determine what, if any, charges would be charged.

.... Ya broke someone's neck. You broke their fucking neck and they died.

Wha-
How-


I can't.

Just because something doesn't go to a grand jury doesn't mean someone won't be charged... 

daria24

Just wanted to point out that the knife Freddie Gray had on himself was legal in MD, so no arrest should ever have been made.

Fucking hell man. 

From what I've read there won't be a grand jury investigation, but I'm not 100% sure. 

lyndausvi

abcdevonn said:

pinkrevenge said:

lyndausvi said:

bethsmiles said:

The officers involved are being charged with homicide, manslaughter and misconduct charges.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html?_r=0

Can someone answer this for me - does this mean this case will actually go to trial? Or is this the step before a grand jury like in Ferguson and the other recent cases of police brutality and clearly institutionalized racism that have been in the news?  

i heard this AG doesn't believe it should go to the Grand Jury and she would determine what, if any, charges would be charged.

.... Ya broke someone's neck. You broke their fucking neck and they died.

Wha-
How-


I can't.

Hasn't the state already pressed charges? I thought they procured warrants for the officers' arrests?Maybe I am a bit confused about how this works. I am REALLY hoping this goes to a full trial and not a grand jury. 

Beth asked if it was going to the GJ.  I said the AG didn't believe it should go to the GJ and would be making the charges, if any, herself.  

You can be charged a few different ways.  Sometimes it's via GJ.  Other times the AG or DA (ADA) can press charges.'

The other cases were via GJ.   This is not.   The AG pressed the charges.

She was the one alone who decide which officers got what charges. Some got only got assault and misconduct.  Others got more serious ones of manslaughter, false imprisonment, etc.

bethsmiles

abcdevonn said:

pinkrevenge said:

lyndausvi said:

bethsmiles said:

The officers involved are being charged with homicide, manslaughter and misconduct charges.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html?_r=0

Can someone answer this for me - does this mean this case will actually go to trial? Or is this the step before a grand jury like in Ferguson and the other recent cases of police brutality and clearly institutionalized racism that have been in the news?  

i heard this AG doesn't believe it should go to the Grand Jury and she would determine what, if any, charges would be charged.

.... Ya broke someone's neck. You broke their fucking neck and they died.

Wha-
How-


I can't.

Hasn't the state already pressed charges? I thought they procured warrants for the officers' arrests?Maybe I am a bit confused about how this works. I am REALLY hoping this goes to a full trial and not a grand jury. 

Yes, that's what the article I posted says. The prosecuter brought charges against the officers involved this morning and is skipping going to a grand jury.

ohannabelle

KatieinBkln said:

I understand the riots. I've been seized by impotent rage momentarily in my life, and for much lesser offenses than the Black community in the US faces daily; if I extrapolate that feeling, magnify it to the near-constant level it must be for so many POC who must live in fear for their lives and their children's lives, I'm actually shocked that there isn't MORE rioting and violence.

Re: the mother who hit her son and pulled him away--a friend shared this on Facebook and I found it illuminating. It eloquently captures why I felt so gross about how many white friends were applauding her: http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/04/29/why-is-america-celebrating-the-beating-of-a-black-child/

Exactly this. People are enjoying this moment like it's comedy. 

That really shocked me, because when I watched it, I saw this woman as mother reacting in absolute fear. 

Like the parents you see when a little kid starts to step in front of a car or pull a pan of boiling water off the stove, or similar, and they yank them back and scream at them, and might slap their asses. I've see things like this happen. It may look like fury, but it's pure unadulterated fear that your child is about to die, and the reaction is 100% understandable. 

So, nope, I didn't see the humor in it. I saw an adrenaline reaction of pure fear. 

lyndausvi

chibiyui said:

bethsmiles said:

The officers involved are being charged with homicide, manslaughter and misconduct charges.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html?_r=0

Can someone answer this for me - does this mean this case will actually go to trial? Or is this the step before a grand jury like in Ferguson and the other recent cases of police brutality and clearly institutionalized racism that have been in the news?  

I am honestly surprised that charges were actually brought forth in this case. I thought for sure they were going to sweep it under the rug.

Charges are not convictions.    This is far from over.

chibiyui

lyndausvi said:

chibiyui said:

bethsmiles said:

The officers involved are being charged with homicide, manslaughter and misconduct charges.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html?_r=0

Can someone answer this for me - does this mean this case will actually go to trial? Or is this the step before a grand jury like in Ferguson and the other recent cases of police brutality and clearly institutionalized racism that have been in the news?  

I am honestly surprised that charges were actually brought forth in this case. I thought for sure they were going to sweep it under the rug.

Charges are not convictions.    This is far from over.

Oh definitely. H just texted me that the police unions letter/statement implicates that the SA prosecuting this could damage her husbands political career (He's a city councilman). It's going to be very, very ugly.

But, charges are a start.

lyndausvi

chibiyui said:

lyndausvi said:

chibiyui said:

bethsmiles said:

The officers involved are being charged with homicide, manslaughter and misconduct charges.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html?_r=0

Can someone answer this for me - does this mean this case will actually go to trial? Or is this the step before a grand jury like in Ferguson and the other recent cases of police brutality and clearly institutionalized racism that have been in the news?  

I am honestly surprised that charges were actually brought forth in this case. I thought for sure they were going to sweep it under the rug.

Charges are not convictions.    This is far from over.

Oh definitely. H just texted me that the police unions letter/statement implicates that the SA prosecuting this could damage her husbands political career (He's a city councilman). It's going to be very, very ugly.

But, charges are a start.

Definitely a start.   

At the very least those Bike patrol guys will loss their jobs over the false imprisonment and misconduct for even arresting Freddie in the first place. That is what set the whole thing in process. It think it would hard press to not get a conviction or plea deal for those charges. But hey OJ got off, so anything is possible.

[Deleted User]

.

chibiyui

pinkrevenge said:

chibiyui said:

lyndausvi said:

chibiyui said:

bethsmiles said:

The officers involved are being charged with homicide, manslaughter and misconduct charges.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html?_r=0

Can someone answer this for me - does this mean this case will actually go to trial? Or is this the step before a grand jury like in Ferguson and the other recent cases of police brutality and clearly institutionalized racism that have been in the news?  

I am honestly surprised that charges were actually brought forth in this case. I thought for sure they were going to sweep it under the rug.

Charges are not convictions.    This is far from over.

Oh definitely. H just texted me that the police unions letter/statement implicates that the SA prosecuting this could damage her husbands political career (He's a city councilman). It's going to be very, very ugly.

But, charges are a start.

Are they actively trying to look like Batman Villains?