Inviting people to "crash" our wedding?

VulgarGirl

SIL left our wedding early cause she's 7 and was fucking tired. Her babysitter came to pick her up, we offered her some food, then they bounced.

But yeah, I should've been a rude cunt and told my FILs that their kid couldn't come if she didn't stay for the whole thing or else they should leave when she was ready to leave. Yep. That would've been a great way to win friends and influence people.

Jen4948

MagicInk said:

SIL left our wedding early cause she's 7 and was fucking tired. Her babysitter came to pick her up, we offered her some food, then they bounced.

But yeah, I should've been a rude cunt and told my FILs that their kid couldn't come if she didn't stay for the whole thing or else they should leave when she was ready to leave. Yep. That would've been a great way to win friends and influence people.

Where are you getting it from that anyone thinks differently?  I happen to agree with you that it would be very rude to tell anyone that.

VulgarGirl

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

SIL left our wedding early cause she's 7 and was fucking tired. Her babysitter came to pick her up, we offered her some food, then they bounced.

But yeah, I should've been a rude cunt and told my FILs that their kid couldn't come if she didn't stay for the whole thing or else they should leave when she was ready to leave. Yep. That would've been a great way to win friends and influence people.

Where are you getting it from that anyone thinks differently?  I happen to agree with you that it would be very rude to tell anyone that.

So your stance is then....what? As usual you're being completely unclear in what you're trying to say.

You think it's rude for a child not to be allowed to stay the whole event? Even if their parents make that decision for them? Cause newsflash sweetie, parents make decisions for kids all the time. That's why kids have parents.

ETA: You said this "And my feeling is that if their parents don't want them to attend the reception, which should be respected,they shouldn't have roles in the ceremony."

So when we decided to put my SIL in the wedding her dads told us "We're going to have her babysitter come get her around 8ish" and we said cool fine. She was still in the ceremony. So from my understanding of your above quote we should have said "No she can't be in the ceremony" then? Or her dads should have said "No she can't be in the ceremony, or attend the wedding of her only sister because she needs to go home earlier"? Those would've been better opitions in your opinion?

Is that what you are trying to say? Because honest to god reading whatever your argument is, is like trying to writing on a pig that's been rolling in shit all day. About as clear as mud.

Jen4948

MagicInk said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

SIL left our wedding early cause she's 7 and was fucking tired. Her babysitter came to pick her up, we offered her some food, then they bounced.

But yeah, I should've been a rude cunt and told my FILs that their kid couldn't come if she didn't stay for the whole thing or else they should leave when she was ready to leave. Yep. That would've been a great way to win friends and influence people.

Where are you getting it from that anyone thinks differently?  I happen to agree with you that it would be very rude to tell anyone that.

So your stance is then....what? As usual you're being completely unclear in what you're trying to say.

You think it's rude for a child not to be allowed to stay the whole event? Even if their parents make that decision for them? Cause newsflash sweetie, parents make decisions for kids all the time. That's why kids have parents.

Newsflash sweetie, I have never said that it's not up to the parents.  Never, sweetheart.

What I have said is that if the parents make the decision that their kids can't attend the reception, then I don't think it makes sense to invite them to the ceremony.  Which involves asking the parents first, honey.  It doesn't involve telling them a damn thing about their kids, darling, unless they ask if their kids are invited, in which case the answer is a simple "No, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but the invitation is only for you and your SO," dear.

VulgarGirl

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

SIL left our wedding early cause she's 7 and was fucking tired. Her babysitter came to pick her up, we offered her some food, then they bounced.

But yeah, I should've been a rude cunt and told my FILs that their kid couldn't come if she didn't stay for the whole thing or else they should leave when she was ready to leave. Yep. That would've been a great way to win friends and influence people.

Where are you getting it from that anyone thinks differently?  I happen to agree with you that it would be very rude to tell anyone that.

So your stance is then....what? As usual you're being completely unclear in what you're trying to say.

You think it's rude for a child not to be allowed to stay the whole event? Even if their parents make that decision for them? Cause newsflash sweetie, parents make decisions for kids all the time. That's why kids have parents.

Newsflash sweetie, I have never said that it's not up to the parents.  Never, sweetie.

What I have said is that if the parents make the decision that their kids can't attend the reception, then I don't think it makes sense to invite them to the ceremony.  Which involves asking the parents first, sweetie.  It doesn't involve telling them a damn thing about their kids, sweetie, unless they ask if their kids are invited, in which case the answer is a simple "No, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but the invitation is only for you and your SO," sweetie.

Nope, still doesn't make sense and none of your points are jiving with each other.

So lets use real life examples. My SIL, 7, was in our wedding. During the planning of the wedding FILs said "Hey were going to have Babysitter come pick up SIL around 8ish" and we said ok sounds great. 

So how would that have played out in your world? You would have said "Oh, I'm sorry that invitation actually no longer extends to her"? Or told them a sitter would not have been allowed to pick up the kid?

Or are you saying when you asked the kid to be in the wedding in the first place you would have called the parents and said "But just so we're clear, if SIL is going to be in the wedding she'll be staying for the entire reception or leaving at the same time as you, correct?", and then rescinded the offer if they said a sitter would be picking up the kid?

Jen4948

MagicInk said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

SIL left our wedding early cause she's 7 and was fucking tired. Her babysitter came to pick her up, we offered her some food, then they bounced.

But yeah, I should've been a rude cunt and told my FILs that their kid couldn't come if she didn't stay for the whole thing or else they should leave when she was ready to leave. Yep. That would've been a great way to win friends and influence people.

Where are you getting it from that anyone thinks differently?  I happen to agree with you that it would be very rude to tell anyone that.

So your stance is then....what? As usual you're being completely unclear in what you're trying to say.

You think it's rude for a child not to be allowed to stay the whole event? Even if their parents make that decision for them? Cause newsflash sweetie, parents make decisions for kids all the time. That's why kids have parents.

Newsflash sweetie, I have never said that it's not up to the parents.  Never, sweetie.

What I have said is that if the parents make the decision that their kids can't attend the reception, then I don't think it makes sense to invite them to the ceremony.  Which involves asking the parents first, sweetie.  It doesn't involve telling them a damn thing about their kids, sweetie, unless they ask if their kids are invited, in which case the answer is a simple "No, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but the invitation is only for you and your SO," sweetie.

Nope, still doesn't make sense and none of your points are jiving with each other.

So lets use real life examples. My SIL, 7, was in our wedding. During the planning of the wedding FILs said "Hey were going to have Babysitter come pick up SIL around 8ish" and we said ok sounds great. 

So how would that have played out in your world? You would have said "Oh, I'm sorry that invitation actually no longer extends to her"? Or told them a sitter would not have been allowed to pick up the kid?

Or are you saying when you asked the kid to be in the wedding in the first place you would have called the parents and said "But just so we're clear, if SIL is going to be in the wedding she'll be staying for the entire reception or leaving at the same time as you, correct?", and then rescinded the offer if they said a sitter would be picking up the kid?

I am saying that I would ask if the kid could attend the reception before asking if they could be in the wedding.  And if the answer was no, I would not have asked if they could be in the wedding. In the whole universe, BTW.  Now go find a tissue in your world and wipe the snot up out of your nose.

madamerwin

MagicInk said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

SIL left our wedding early cause she's 7 and was fucking tired. Her babysitter came to pick her up, we offered her some food, then they bounced.

But yeah, I should've been a rude cunt and told my FILs that their kid couldn't come if she didn't stay for the whole thing or else they should leave when she was ready to leave. Yep. That would've been a great way to win friends and influence people.

Where are you getting it from that anyone thinks differently?  I happen to agree with you that it would be very rude to tell anyone that.

So your stance is then....what? As usual you're being completely unclear in what you're trying to say.

You think it's rude for a child not to be allowed to stay the whole event? Even if their parents make that decision for them? Cause newsflash sweetie, parents make decisions for kids all the time. That's why kids have parents.

Newsflash sweetie, I have never said that it's not up to the parents.  Never, sweetheart.

What I have said is that if the parents make the decision that their kids can't attend the reception, then I don't think it makes sense to invite them to the ceremony.  Which involves asking the parents first, honey.  It doesn't involve telling them a damn thing about their kids, darling, unless they ask if their kids are invited, in which case the answer is a simple "No, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but the invitation is only for you and your SO," dear.

So... If you find out before invites go out that a parent would want to send their kid home early, you just wouldn't invite the kid? Still not seeing the logic there. Sure, you're not telling the parents what to do, but you're taking away their choice in how they want to handle childcare.  The parents may want their kid at the ceremony but not the reception. What you're saying is that you don't want to give them that choice.

Honest question: If you found out after you sent invites that a parent planned to send their kid home after the ceremony, what would you do?

Jen4948

tfmrserwin said:

MagicInk said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

SIL left our wedding early cause she's 7 and was fucking tired. Her babysitter came to pick her up, we offered her some food, then they bounced.

But yeah, I should've been a rude cunt and told my FILs that their kid couldn't come if she didn't stay for the whole thing or else they should leave when she was ready to leave. Yep. That would've been a great way to win friends and influence people.

Where are you getting it from that anyone thinks differently?  I happen to agree with you that it would be very rude to tell anyone that.

So your stance is then....what? As usual you're being completely unclear in what you're trying to say.

You think it's rude for a child not to be allowed to stay the whole event? Even if their parents make that decision for them? Cause newsflash sweetie, parents make decisions for kids all the time. That's why kids have parents.

Newsflash sweetie, I have never said that it's not up to the parents.  Never, sweetheart.

What I have said is that if the parents make the decision that their kids can't attend the reception, then I don't think it makes sense to invite them to the ceremony.  Which involves asking the parents first, honey.  It doesn't involve telling them a damn thing about their kids, darling, unless they ask if their kids are invited, in which case the answer is a simple "No, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but the invitation is only for you and your SO," dear.

So... If you find out before invites go out that a parent would want to send their kid home early, you just wouldn't invite the kid? Still not seeing the logic there. Sure, you're not telling the parents what to do, but you're taking away their choice in how they want to handle childcare.  The parents may want their kid at the ceremony but not the reception. What you're saying is that you don't want to give them that choice.

Honest question: If you found out after you sent invites that a parent planned to send their kid home after the ceremony, what would you do?

I would talk to the parents about what they need for their kids before even putting their kids' names on the guest list, and respect whatever decisions the parents make about things like what foods the kids can eat, when the kids have to leave, etc.  And if the parents' decisions about their kids are not compatible with what I would like to do, then I would not invite the kids.  That means that I would also not ask them to be in the ceremony.  If I decide to invite the parents without their kids, then I would clearly address the envelopes so that the kids' names don't appear, and it will be up to the parents to make whatever babysitting arrangements they see fit for the kids rather than bring them-or decline the invitation if it isn't possible for someone else to babysit their kids. 

But the subject of whether or not I would even invite kids would not come up without this conversation taking place first.

madamerwin

Jen4948 said:

tfmrserwin said:

MagicInk said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

SIL left our wedding early cause she's 7 and was fucking tired. Her babysitter came to pick her up, we offered her some food, then they bounced.

But yeah, I should've been a rude cunt and told my FILs that their kid couldn't come if she didn't stay for the whole thing or else they should leave when she was ready to leave. Yep. That would've been a great way to win friends and influence people.

Where are you getting it from that anyone thinks differently?  I happen to agree with you that it would be very rude to tell anyone that.

So your stance is then....what? As usual you're being completely unclear in what you're trying to say.

You think it's rude for a child not to be allowed to stay the whole event? Even if their parents make that decision for them? Cause newsflash sweetie, parents make decisions for kids all the time. That's why kids have parents.

Newsflash sweetie, I have never said that it's not up to the parents.  Never, sweetheart.

What I have said is that if the parents make the decision that their kids can't attend the reception, then I don't think it makes sense to invite them to the ceremony.  Which involves asking the parents first, honey.  It doesn't involve telling them a damn thing about their kids, darling, unless they ask if their kids are invited, in which case the answer is a simple "No, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but the invitation is only for you and your SO," dear.

So... If you find out before invites go out that a parent would want to send their kid home early, you just wouldn't invite the kid? Still not seeing the logic there. Sure, you're not telling the parents what to do, but you're taking away their choice in how they want to handle childcare.  The parents may want their kid at the ceremony but not the reception. What you're saying is that you don't want to give them that choice.

Honest question: If you found out after you sent invites that a parent planned to send their kid home after the ceremony, what would you do?

I would talk to the parents about what they need for their kids before even putting their kids' names on the guest list, and respect whatever decisions the parents make about things like what foods the kids can eat, when the kids have to leave, etc.  And if the parents' decisions about their kids are not compatible with what I would like to do, then I would not invite the kids.  That means that I would also not ask them to be in the ceremony.  If I decide to invite the parents without their kids, then I would clearly address the envelopes so that the kids' names don't appear, and it will be up to the parents to make whatever babysitting arrangements they see fit for the kids rather than bring them-or decline the invitation if it isn't possible for someone else to babysit their kids. 

But the subject of whether or not I would even invite kids would not come up without this conversation taking place first.

---BOX---

I guess that's where we differ then. I invited the kids I want to attend, and I am leaving it up to their parents to, well, parent. That includes deciding if the kids stay for the reception or leave early. They can choose to leave their kids at home for the entire thing, they can bring the kids and send them home whenever they feel it's appropriate, or they can keep their kids up all night, for all I care. There's nothing wrong etiquette-wise with a parent choosing when to send their kid home at any point. That is my entire argument.

VulgarGirl

Jen4948 said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

SIL left our wedding early cause she's 7 and was fucking tired. Her babysitter came to pick her up, we offered her some food, then they bounced.

But yeah, I should've been a rude cunt and told my FILs that their kid couldn't come if she didn't stay for the whole thing or else they should leave when she was ready to leave. Yep. That would've been a great way to win friends and influence people.

Where are you getting it from that anyone thinks differently?  I happen to agree with you that it would be very rude to tell anyone that.

So your stance is then....what? As usual you're being completely unclear in what you're trying to say.

You think it's rude for a child not to be allowed to stay the whole event? Even if their parents make that decision for them? Cause newsflash sweetie, parents make decisions for kids all the time. That's why kids have parents.

Newsflash sweetie, I have never said that it's not up to the parents.  Never, sweetie.

What I have said is that if the parents make the decision that their kids can't attend the reception, then I don't think it makes sense to invite them to the ceremony.  Which involves asking the parents first, sweetie.  It doesn't involve telling them a damn thing about their kids, sweetie, unless they ask if their kids are invited, in which case the answer is a simple "No, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but the invitation is only for you and your SO," sweetie.

Nope, still doesn't make sense and none of your points are jiving with each other.

So lets use real life examples. My SIL, 7, was in our wedding. During the planning of the wedding FILs said "Hey were going to have Babysitter come pick up SIL around 8ish" and we said ok sounds great. 

So how would that have played out in your world? You would have said "Oh, I'm sorry that invitation actually no longer extends to her"? Or told them a sitter would not have been allowed to pick up the kid?

Or are you saying when you asked the kid to be in the wedding in the first place you would have called the parents and said "But just so we're clear, if SIL is going to be in the wedding she'll be staying for the entire reception or leaving at the same time as you, correct?", and then rescinded the offer if they said a sitter would be picking up the kid?

I am saying that I would ask if the kid could attend the reception before asking if they could be in the wedding.  And if the answer was no, I would not have asked if they could be in the wedding. In the whole universe, BTW.  Now go find a tissue in your world and wipe the snot up out of your nose.


First: Both the OP and my example are children attending the reception for a porition of it and then leaving early. I mean hell my reception went on until...1am I think. That's pretty late for a kid to be out. And what an awkward conversation to have "Hello Steve, yes just wondering if Sally could attend my reception? If she can I want her to be in the wedding, but if not I'll be asking another child" I mean that makes it seem like your reception is more important then your relationship to the kid. Also originally you mentioned even inviting kids to the ceremony if they were gonna peace out early, that perhaps then they shouldn't even be invited. You would go down your guest list checking to see how long the children will be able to be at your reception for each person? 

Second: What the fuck are you even talking about? Are you like...high right now? You're high aren't you? Is this an insult or something? Is this like telling to "sit on it" or "suck an egg"? Oh you you slay me with your words. But for real I don't think you should get high and then hop on TK...

Jen4948

tfmrserwin said:

Jen4948 said:

tfmrserwin said:

MagicInk said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

SIL left our wedding early cause she's 7 and was fucking tired. Her babysitter came to pick her up, we offered her some food, then they bounced.

But yeah, I should've been a rude cunt and told my FILs that their kid couldn't come if she didn't stay for the whole thing or else they should leave when she was ready to leave. Yep. That would've been a great way to win friends and influence people.

Where are you getting it from that anyone thinks differently?  I happen to agree with you that it would be very rude to tell anyone that.

So your stance is then....what? As usual you're being completely unclear in what you're trying to say.

You think it's rude for a child not to be allowed to stay the whole event? Even if their parents make that decision for them? Cause newsflash sweetie, parents make decisions for kids all the time. That's why kids have parents.

Newsflash sweetie, I have never said that it's not up to the parents.  Never, sweetheart.

What I have said is that if the parents make the decision that their kids can't attend the reception, then I don't think it makes sense to invite them to the ceremony.  Which involves asking the parents first, honey.  It doesn't involve telling them a damn thing about their kids, darling, unless they ask if their kids are invited, in which case the answer is a simple "No, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but the invitation is only for you and your SO," dear.

So... If you find out before invites go out that a parent would want to send their kid home early, you just wouldn't invite the kid? Still not seeing the logic there. Sure, you're not telling the parents what to do, but you're taking away their choice in how they want to handle childcare.  The parents may want their kid at the ceremony but not the reception. What you're saying is that you don't want to give them that choice.

Honest question: If you found out after you sent invites that a parent planned to send their kid home after the ceremony, what would you do?

I would talk to the parents about what they need for their kids before even putting their kids' names on the guest list, and respect whatever decisions the parents make about things like what foods the kids can eat, when the kids have to leave, etc.  And if the parents' decisions about their kids are not compatible with what I would like to do, then I would not invite the kids.  That means that I would also not ask them to be in the ceremony.  If I decide to invite the parents without their kids, then I would clearly address the envelopes so that the kids' names don't appear, and it will be up to the parents to make whatever babysitting arrangements they see fit for the kids rather than bring them-or decline the invitation if it isn't possible for someone else to babysit their kids. 

But the subject of whether or not I would even invite kids would not come up without this conversation taking place first.

---BOX---

I guess that's where we differ then. I invited the kids I want to attend, and I am leaving it up to their parents to, well, parent. That includes deciding if the kids stay for the reception or leave early. They can choose to leave their kids at home for the entire thing, they can bring the kids and send them home whenever they feel it's appropriate, or they can keep their kids up all night, for all I care. There's nothing wrong etiquette-wise with a parent choosing when to send their kid home at any point. That is my entire argument.

Which I've never disagreed with.  What I said was that I don't think it makes sense to invite a kid, let alone ask him or her to be in one's wedding party, when their parents aren't willing for them to attend the reception.  We don't have to agree about that. 

madamerwin

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

SIL left our wedding early cause she's 7 and was fucking tired. Her babysitter came to pick her up, we offered her some food, then they bounced.

But yeah, I should've been a rude cunt and told my FILs that their kid couldn't come if she didn't stay for the whole thing or else they should leave when she was ready to leave. Yep. That would've been a great way to win friends and influence people.

Where are you getting it from that anyone thinks differently?  I happen to agree with you that it would be very rude to tell anyone that.

So your stance is then....what? As usual you're being completely unclear in what you're trying to say.

You think it's rude for a child not to be allowed to stay the whole event? Even if their parents make that decision for them? Cause newsflash sweetie, parents make decisions for kids all the time. That's why kids have parents.

Newsflash sweetie, I have never said that it's not up to the parents.  Never, sweetheart.

What I have said is that if the parents make the decision that their kids can't attend the reception, then I don't think it makes sense to invite them to the ceremony.  Which involves asking the parents first, honey.  It doesn't involve telling them a damn thing about their kids, darling, unless they ask if their kids are invited, in which case the answer is a simple "No, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but the invitation is only for you and your SO," dear.

So... If you find out before invites go out that a parent would want to send their kid home early, you just wouldn't invite the kid? Still not seeing the logic there. Sure, you're not telling the parents what to do, but you're taking away their choice in how they want to handle childcare.  The parents may want their kid at the ceremony but not the reception. What you're saying is that you don't want to give them that choice.

Honest question: If you found out after you sent invites that a parent planned to send their kid home after the ceremony, what would you do?

I would talk to the parents about what they need for their kids before even putting their kids' names on the guest list, and respect whatever decisions the parents make about things like what foods the kids can eat, when the kids have to leave, etc.  And if the parents' decisions about their kids are not compatible with what I would like to do, then I would not invite the kids.  That means that I would also not ask them to be in the ceremony.  If I decide to invite the parents without their kids, then I would clearly address the envelopes so that the kids' names don't appear, and it will be up to the parents to make whatever babysitting arrangements they see fit for the kids rather than bring them-or decline the invitation if it isn't possible for someone else to babysit their kids. 

But the subject of whether or not I would even invite kids would not come up without this conversation taking place first.

---BOX---

One more question, to the bolded: You call the parents, start talking about the wedding and their kids' needs. Then, the parent may say "Yes, little Billy is so excited! He has been talking about the ceremony all week. And we decided that we will have his sitter pick him up at 6pm, since he will need to get to bed soon after." Then you would say... what? "Oh, he can't stay for the whole thing? Then the invitation will just be for you and SO."

I just can't imagine how these conversations you mention would take place without a whole lot of awkwardness.

Jen4948

tfmrserwin said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

SIL left our wedding early cause she's 7 and was fucking tired. Her babysitter came to pick her up, we offered her some food, then they bounced.

But yeah, I should've been a rude cunt and told my FILs that their kid couldn't come if she didn't stay for the whole thing or else they should leave when she was ready to leave. Yep. That would've been a great way to win friends and influence people.

Where are you getting it from that anyone thinks differently?  I happen to agree with you that it would be very rude to tell anyone that.

So your stance is then....what? As usual you're being completely unclear in what you're trying to say.

You think it's rude for a child not to be allowed to stay the whole event? Even if their parents make that decision for them? Cause newsflash sweetie, parents make decisions for kids all the time. That's why kids have parents.

Newsflash sweetie, I have never said that it's not up to the parents.  Never, sweetheart.

What I have said is that if the parents make the decision that their kids can't attend the reception, then I don't think it makes sense to invite them to the ceremony.  Which involves asking the parents first, honey.  It doesn't involve telling them a damn thing about their kids, darling, unless they ask if their kids are invited, in which case the answer is a simple "No, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but the invitation is only for you and your SO," dear.

So... If you find out before invites go out that a parent would want to send their kid home early, you just wouldn't invite the kid? Still not seeing the logic there. Sure, you're not telling the parents what to do, but you're taking away their choice in how they want to handle childcare.  The parents may want their kid at the ceremony but not the reception. What you're saying is that you don't want to give them that choice.

Honest question: If you found out after you sent invites that a parent planned to send their kid home after the ceremony, what would you do?

I would talk to the parents about what they need for their kids before even putting their kids' names on the guest list, and respect whatever decisions the parents make about things like what foods the kids can eat, when the kids have to leave, etc.  And if the parents' decisions about their kids are not compatible with what I would like to do, then I would not invite the kids.  That means that I would also not ask them to be in the ceremony.  If I decide to invite the parents without their kids, then I would clearly address the envelopes so that the kids' names don't appear, and it will be up to the parents to make whatever babysitting arrangements they see fit for the kids rather than bring them-or decline the invitation if it isn't possible for someone else to babysit their kids. 

But the subject of whether or not I would even invite kids would not come up without this conversation taking place first.

---BOX---

One more question, to the bolded: You call the parents, start talking about the wedding and their kids' needs. Then, the parent may say "Yes, little Billy is so excited! He has been talking about the ceremony all week. And we decided that we will have his sitter pick him up at 6pm, since he will need to get to bed soon after." Then you would say... what? "Oh, he can't stay for the whole thing? Then the invitation will just be for you and SO."

I just can't imagine how these conversations you mention would take place without a whole lot of awkwardness.

You don't have to imagine it, because in this scenario, the parents made assumptions and talked to Billy about them without checking them out with the couple first.  Any awkwardness is a consequence of their making unverified assumptions. 

If the couple would rather not invite kids to the ceremony who aren't allowed to attend the reception, that's their prerogative, just as it's the kids' parents' prerogative to decide if their kids can attend the reception.

madamerwin

Jen4948 said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

Jen4948 said:

You don't have to imagine it, because in this scenario, the parents made assumptions and talked to Billy about them without checking them out with the couple first.  Any awkwardness is a consequence of their making unverified assumptions. 

If the couple would rather not invite kids to the ceremony who aren't allowed to attend the reception, that's their prerogative, just as it's the kids' parents' prerogative to decide if their kids can attend the reception.

----BOX----

Ok, I will give you that. In my example, though, let's assume this is a relative who knows that most kids in the family are invited to the wedding. 

Buy you danced around my question - I am genuinely curious how you would broach the subject of the kids' needs, whether they would be able to attend the reception, without making the parents think the kid is invited. Like, if you said to me "I just wanted to see if little Billy would be able to stay for the entire reception," I would take that to mean you are planning to invite Billy. If I then said yes, he will come, but only until 6pm, how would you break it to me that Billy is not, in fact, invited, since he cannot stay for the whole thing? 

Also, what are you talking about with @MagicInk wiping the snot from her nose? Did you just make that up, or are we out of the loop on how children insult each other these days?

Jen4948

tfmrserwin said:

Jen4948 said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

Jen4948 said:

You don't have to imagine it, because in this scenario, the parents made assumptions and talked to Billy about them without checking them out with the couple first.  Any awkwardness is a consequence of their making unverified assumptions. 

If the couple would rather not invite kids to the ceremony who aren't allowed to attend the reception, that's their prerogative, just as it's the kids' parents' prerogative to decide if their kids can attend the reception.

----BOX----

Ok, I will give you that. In my example, though, let's assume this is a relative who knows that most kids in the family are invited to the wedding. 

Buy you danced around my question - I am genuinely curious how you would broach the subject of the kids' needs, whether they would be able to attend the reception, without making the parents think the kid is invited. Like, if you said to me "I just wanted to see if little Billy would be able to stay for the entire reception," I would take that to mean you are planning to invite Billy. If I then said yes, he will come, but only until 6pm, how would you break it to me that Billy is not, in fact, invited, since he cannot stay for the whole thing? 

Also, what are you talking about with @MagicInk wiping the snot from her nose? Did you just make that up, or are we out of the loop on how children insult each other these days?

I did not answer your question because, as I said, I would not ask the parents whether or not the child could stay for the reception without first having the conversation about the child's needs with the parents. There would therefore be no need to ask it if, after that conversation, I knew that the parents wouldn't allow their child to attend the reception, because I would have determined through that conversation whether or not I was going to invite the kid. It's called "planning ahead."

Edited to add: As to how I would ask about the kids' needs, I'd just ask something like, "Mary, what is Billy's bedtime? What does he eat/drink? How is he with large groups of people? Etc." without mentioning the wedding. I wouldn't bring up inviting the kids to the wedding, let alone being in the wedding, until I had knowledge of their normal routine and how well they can adapt to breaks in that routine, unfamiliar people, and so on, and what their parents will allow.

momofbride530

In what planet is a small child (in OP's case a 2 1/2 year old) even aware of the difference between a ceremony and reception to begin with? Much less that the reception is a thank you for attending the wedding? Believe me, kids don't care about etiquette at that age. I don't know how you would even start a conversation like this with a parent.

Jen4948

momofbride530 said:

In what planet is a small child (in OP's case a 2 1/2 year old) even aware of the difference between a ceremony and reception to begin with? Much less that the reception is a thank you for attending the wedding? Believe me, kids don't care about etiquette at that age. I don't know how you would even start a conversation like this with a parent.

Because I wouldn't invite the kids or ask them to be in the wedding without asking the parents first if it's compatible with their parents' rules, routine, etc. And if it isn't, I wouldn't invite the kid at all. If I invite the kid's parents, they can either come without the kid or decline the invitation, just like any other parent.

ohannabelle

MagicInk said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

SIL left our wedding early cause she's 7 and was fucking tired. Her babysitter came to pick her up, we offered her some food, then they bounced.

But yeah, I should've been a rude cunt and told my FILs that their kid couldn't come if she didn't stay for the whole thing or else they should leave when she was ready to leave. Yep. That would've been a great way to win friends and influence people.

Where are you getting it from that anyone thinks differently?  I happen to agree with you that it would be very rude to tell anyone that.

So your stance is then....what? As usual you're being completely unclear in what you're trying to say.

You think it's rude for a child not to be allowed to stay the whole event? Even if their parents make that decision for them? Cause newsflash sweetie, parents make decisions for kids all the time. That's why kids have parents.

Newsflash sweetie, I have never said that it's not up to the parents.  Never, sweetie.

What I have said is that if the parents make the decision that their kids can't attend the reception, then I don't think it makes sense to invite them to the ceremony.  Which involves asking the parents first, sweetie.  It doesn't involve telling them a damn thing about their kids, sweetie, unless they ask if their kids are invited, in which case the answer is a simple "No, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but the invitation is only for you and your SO," sweetie.

Nope, still doesn't make sense and none of your points are jiving with each other.

So lets use real life examples. My SIL, 7, was in our wedding. During the planning of the wedding FILs said "Hey were going to have Babysitter come pick up SIL around 8ish" and we said ok sounds great. 

So how would that have played out in your world? You would have said "Oh, I'm sorry that invitation actually no longer extends to her"? Or told them a sitter would not have been allowed to pick up the kid?

Or are you saying when you asked the kid to be in the wedding in the first place you would have called the parents and said "But just so we're clear, if SIL is going to be in the wedding she'll be staying for the entire reception or leaving at the same time as you, correct?", and then rescinded the offer if they said a sitter would be picking up the kid?

I am saying that I would ask if the kid could attend the reception before asking if they could be in the wedding.  And if the answer was no, I would not have asked if they could be in the wedding. In the whole universe, BTW.  Now go find a tissue in your world and wipe the snot up out of your nose.


First: Both the OP and my example are children attending the reception for a porition of it and then leaving early. I mean hell my reception went on until...1am I think. That's pretty late for a kid to be out. And what an awkward conversation to have "Hello Steve, yes just wondering if Sally could attend my reception? If she can I want her to be in the wedding, but if not I'll be asking another child" I mean that makes it seem like your reception is more important then your relationship to the kid. Also originally you mentioned even inviting kids to the ceremony if they were gonna peace out early, that perhaps then they shouldn't even be invited. You would go down your guest list checking to see how long the children will be able to be at your reception for each person? 

Second: What the fuck are you even talking about? Are you like...high right now? You're high aren't you? Is this an insult or something? Is this like telling to "sit on it" or "suck an egg"? Oh you you slay me with your words. But for real I don't think you should get high and then hop on TK...

******SIB******

I don't think that's it. Because I got high and hopped on the knot, and it makes absolutely zero sense to me.  The whole argument  is just so strange and illogical that it's freaking me out.  And then there was snot, out of nowhere. 

I think I need to go bake cookies. 

lyndausvi

My sister's BFF's kids were in their uncle's wedding.  BFF had every intention of having them at the reception the whole time.   Then the week of the wedding they decided it really would not be practical for them to stay at the entire reception.  BFF asked my sister to come pick up the kids.

According to Jen the kids should not have been asked to be in the ceremony.  

That makes no sense.   From the time they were asked and the wedding it was 8 months or so.   In that time the kids wants and needs changed.   Which is typical for a kid.  Something that was no big deal 6 months ago is now a hassle.  Or the opposite, something that was a hassle isn't anymore.  

The OP did nothing wrong with asking the kids to be in the wedding.  The parents did nothing wrong for deciding the kids would not be at the reception the entire time, regardless of when they made the  choice.  The parents could have decided the day of the wedding to have them picked up and it still would not have been wrong.

Jen some of the things you argue are just mind blowing.

SP29

Jen, you are making absolutely no sense.

An invitation is not a subpoena, for adults or children. Parents make decisions for their children. As long as the couple has invited the child to the entire reception, what the parents choose to do is their decision.

How could you have a conversation without making it seem like you were inviting little Billy? You said this, "As to how I would ask about the kids' needs, I'd just ask something like, "Mary, what is Billy's bedtime? What does he eat/drink? How is he with large groups of people? Etc." without mentioning the wedding. I wouldn't bring up inviting the kids to the wedding, let alone being in the wedding, until I had knowledge of their normal routine and how well they can adapt to breaks in that routine, unfamiliar people, and so on, and what their parents will allow."

This makes no sense to me at all. If someone started asking me questions like that about my child, I would be a bit weirded out. First- this knowledge isn't really your business and second, it shouldn't determine if you invite the child or not.

You invite guests (which includes children) because you want them there, not because they have bedtimes. I would be pretty pissed if I found out someone decided not to invite my child somewhere because (s)he has a bedtime and maybe had never been to a wedding before (not saying that my child would have to be invited to any event, but that someone else decided what myself and my kid could or couldn't do). What if you have an adult guest who has to work the next day and wants to leave early? Are you going to remove them from the guest list because of this?

I have a friend who left before dinner at another friend's wedding because he had a trip planned. Should my married friends have rescinded his invite because he said he could no longer attend? 

By your logic about asking every parent minute details about their child, you should be doing the same for every adult guest too, to figure out if they are going to attend the reception- because they might not! So you're not going to invite guests just because they can't attend? "Hey Aunt Sally, before I send you an invitation, do you think you'll be able to come for the whole thing?". That's not awkward, or rude, at all. 

Jen4948

SP29 said:

Jen, you are making absolutely no sense.

An invitation is not a subpoena, for adults or children. Parents make decisions for their children. As long as the couple has invited the child to the entire reception, what the parents choose to do is their decision.

How could you have a conversation without making it seem like you were inviting little Billy? You said this, "As to how I would ask about the kids' needs, I'd just ask something like, "Mary, what is Billy's bedtime? What does he eat/drink? How is he with large groups of people? Etc." without mentioning the wedding. I wouldn't bring up inviting the kids to the wedding, let alone being in the wedding, until I had knowledge of their normal routine and how well they can adapt to breaks in that routine, unfamiliar people, and so on, and what their parents will allow."

This makes no sense to me at all. If someone started asking me questions like that about my child, I would be a bit weirded out. First- this knowledge isn't really your business and second, it shouldn't determine if you invite the child or not.

You invite guests (which includes children) because you want them there, not because they have bedtimes. I would be pretty pissed if I found out someone decided not to invite my child somewhere because (s)he has a bedtime and maybe had never been to a wedding before (not saying that my child would have to be invited to any event, but that someone else decided what myself and my kid could or couldn't do). What if you have an adult guest who has to work the next day and wants to leave early? Are you going to remove them from the guest list because of this?

I have a friend who left before dinner at another friend's wedding because he had a trip planned. Should my married friends have rescinded his invite because he said he could no longer attend? 

By your logic about asking every parent minute details about their child, you should be doing the same for every adult guest too, to figure out if they are going to attend the reception- because they might not! So you're not going to invite guests just because they can't attend? "Hey Aunt Sally, before I send you an invitation, do you think you'll be able to come for the whole thing?". That's not awkward, or rude, at all. 

I wouldn't even consider inviting the child, let alone wanting him or her in my wedding party, without already having a very close relationship with his or her parents, such as my sibling, where asking these questions isn't seen as awkward.

sophhabobopha

I have no idea what is even being argued.

Very confused.

kkitkat79

Jen4948 said:

tfmrserwin said:

MagicInk said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

SIL left our wedding early cause she's 7 and was fucking tired. Her babysitter came to pick her up, we offered her some food, then they bounced.

But yeah, I should've been a rude cunt and told my FILs that their kid couldn't come if she didn't stay for the whole thing or else they should leave when she was ready to leave. Yep. That would've been a great way to win friends and influence people.

Where are you getting it from that anyone thinks differently?  I happen to agree with you that it would be very rude to tell anyone that.

So your stance is then....what? As usual you're being completely unclear in what you're trying to say.

You think it's rude for a child not to be allowed to stay the whole event? Even if their parents make that decision for them? Cause newsflash sweetie, parents make decisions for kids all the time. That's why kids have parents.

Newsflash sweetie, I have never said that it's not up to the parents.  Never, sweetheart.

What I have said is that if the parents make the decision that their kids can't attend the reception, then I don't think it makes sense to invite them to the ceremony.  Which involves asking the parents first, honey.  It doesn't involve telling them a damn thing about their kids, darling, unless they ask if their kids are invited, in which case the answer is a simple "No, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but the invitation is only for you and your SO," dear.

So... If you find out before invites go out that a parent would want to send their kid home early, you just wouldn't invite the kid? Still not seeing the logic there. Sure, you're not telling the parents what to do, but you're taking away their choice in how they want to handle childcare.  The parents may want their kid at the ceremony but not the reception. What you're saying is that you don't want to give them that choice.

Honest question: If you found out after you sent invites that a parent planned to send their kid home after the ceremony, what would you do?

I would talk to the parents about what they need for their kids before even putting their kids' names on the guest list, and respect whatever decisions the parents make about things like what foods the kids can eat, when the kids have to leave, etc.  And if the parents' decisions about their kids are not compatible with what I would like to do, then I would not invite the kids.  That means that I would also not ask them to be in the ceremony.  If I decide to invite the parents without their kids, then I would clearly address the envelopes so that the kids' names don't appear, and it will be up to the parents to make whatever babysitting arrangements they see fit for the kids rather than bring them-or decline the invitation if it isn't possible for someone else to babysit their kids. 

But the subject of whether or not I would even invite kids would not come up without this conversation taking place first.

d

Your argument just boils down to "I don't approve of how you parent so I won't invite your kids". That is of course your prerogative, but it's so unpleasant.

mikenberger

sophhabobopha said:

I have no idea what is even being argued.

Very confused.

theartistformerlyknownas

Jen4948 said:

I wouldn't even consider inviting the child, let alone wanting him or her in my wedding party, without already having a very close relationship with his or her parents, such as my sibling, where asking these questions isn't seen as awkward.

A few of our guests left immediately after our ceremony, for various personal reasons. Are you saying that we should have asked all of our guests whether they'd be able to allow us to properly thank them via the reception, before inviting them to the ceremony? Or that I should have just known my brother well enough to know he wouldn't be able to stay, and therefore not invited him and my niece to witness my marriage at all?

Argue yourself in circles all you want, you're clearly the one not making any sense here. If anyone's trolling here, it's you.

ashley8918

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

Jen4948 said:

MagicInk said:

SIL left our wedding early cause she's 7 and was fucking tired. Her babysitter came to pick her up, we offered her some food, then they bounced.

But yeah, I should've been a rude cunt and told my FILs that their kid couldn't come if she didn't stay for the whole thing or else they should leave when she was ready to leave. Yep. That would've been a great way to win friends and influence people.

Where are you getting it from that anyone thinks differently?  I happen to agree with you that it would be very rude to tell anyone that.

So your stance is then....what? As usual you're being completely unclear in what you're trying to say.

You think it's rude for a child not to be allowed to stay the whole event? Even if their parents make that decision for them? Cause newsflash sweetie, parents make decisions for kids all the time. That's why kids have parents.

Newsflash sweetie, I have never said that it's not up to the parents.  Never, sweetie.

What I have said is that if the parents make the decision that their kids can't attend the reception, then I don't think it makes sense to invite them to the ceremony.  Which involves asking the parents first, sweetie.  It doesn't involve telling them a damn thing about their kids, sweetie, unless they ask if their kids are invited, in which case the answer is a simple "No, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but the invitation is only for you and your SO," sweetie.

Nope, still doesn't make sense and none of your points are jiving with each other.

So lets use real life examples. My SIL, 7, was in our wedding. During the planning of the wedding FILs said "Hey were going to have Babysitter come pick up SIL around 8ish" and we said ok sounds great. 

So how would that have played out in your world? You would have said "Oh, I'm sorry that invitation actually no longer extends to her"? Or told them a sitter would not have been allowed to pick up the kid?

Or are you saying when you asked the kid to be in the wedding in the first place you would have called the parents and said "But just so we're clear, if SIL is going to be in the wedding she'll be staying for the entire reception or leaving at the same time as you, correct?", and then rescinded the offer if they said a sitter would be picking up the kid?

I am saying that I would ask if the kid could attend the reception before asking if they could be in the wedding.  And if the answer was no, I would not have asked if they could be in the wedding. In the whole universe, BTW.  Now go find a tissue in your world and wipe the snot up out of your nose.

@Jen4948, you are making, like, negative sense.

redoryx

Jen4948 said:

SP29 said:

Jen, you are making absolutely no sense.

An invitation is not a subpoena, for adults or children. Parents make decisions for their children. As long as the couple has invited the child to the entire reception, what the parents choose to do is their decision.

How could you have a conversation without making it seem like you were inviting little Billy? You said this, "As to how I would ask about the kids' needs, I'd just ask something like, "Mary, what is Billy's bedtime? What does he eat/drink? How is he with large groups of people? Etc." without mentioning the wedding. I wouldn't bring up inviting the kids to the wedding, let alone being in the wedding, until I had knowledge of their normal routine and how well they can adapt to breaks in that routine, unfamiliar people, and so on, and what their parents will allow."

This makes no sense to me at all. If someone started asking me questions like that about my child, I would be a bit weirded out. First- this knowledge isn't really your business and second, it shouldn't determine if you invite the child or not.

You invite guests (which includes children) because you want them there, not because they have bedtimes. I would be pretty pissed if I found out someone decided not to invite my child somewhere because (s)he has a bedtime and maybe had never been to a wedding before (not saying that my child would have to be invited to any event, but that someone else decided what myself and my kid could or couldn't do). What if you have an adult guest who has to work the next day and wants to leave early? Are you going to remove them from the guest list because of this?

I have a friend who left before dinner at another friend's wedding because he had a trip planned. Should my married friends have rescinded his invite because he said he could no longer attend? 

By your logic about asking every parent minute details about their child, you should be doing the same for every adult guest too, to figure out if they are going to attend the reception- because they might not! So you're not going to invite guests just because they can't attend? "Hey Aunt Sally, before I send you an invitation, do you think you'll be able to come for the whole thing?". That's not awkward, or rude, at all. 

I wouldn't even consider inviting the child, let alone wanting him or her in my wedding party, without already having a very close relationship with his or her parents, such as my sibling, where asking these questions isn't seen as awkward.

But how do you ask those questions in a context that doesn't imply that you are asking for the purpose of possibly inviting the child to the wedding? Because, honestly, if I had an engaged friend asking about my child's needs related to food, sleep schedule, etc., while planning a wedding and I answered those questions and then the child wasn't invited I'd be a little confused.

[Deleted User]

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theartistformerlyknownas

pinkrevenge said:

Jen4948 said:

peachy13 said:

Jen4948 said:

I guess this is a good reason why one should not have small children in one's ceremony who one or the children's parents don't want to attend the reception-someone has to babysit them later.

That said, if these people aren't actually being invited to your wedding, I don't see that you owe them hospitality, but cake and non-alcoholic drinks would be a nice gesture.

When FI and I got engaged, his sister and I decided together to have him be the ring bearer, and that was like a year and half ago when he was a newborn. It was totally her decision to ask her sister in law to pick him up after dinner and I know she's really excited to a) have her son be part of a family wedding and b) party later with the grown-ups. Her sister in law Amy is a peach and loooves the kid just as much as we all do and I know she doesn't mind babysitting -- her and her fiance are cool people and that was why I wanted to invite them in for a refreshment during their long journey.

Thank you all for the good advice! I love @thisismynickname 's wording.

I'm still not a fan of having infants and toddlers as ring bearers and flower girls, partially for this reason-regardless of how much of a "peach" one is or how much one loves the kid.  All of one's wedding guests are supposed to be invited to the reception, including one's wedding party members.

The kid IS invited to the reception, the parents just want him to go home a bit early.
What are you, the guest wrangler? Making the guests stay or GOD HELP THEM!

YOU CAN'T LEAVE! YOU HAVEN'T BEEN PROPERLY THANKED!

[Deleted User]

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