Crazy situation

Jen4948

Tell your H that under no circumstances can his ex live with you, but that you're willing for him to seek full custody of his kids.

ShesSoCold

decembergrl2014 said: @lyndausvi - he either has to do that, or force her to go to her mother's house. If neither one of those work then I'll have no choice but to ask him to find a place for himself too. It'll break my heart to do it, but I'm not a doormat. I already spoke to my mother about it too. Worse comes to worse she and I will go to Hawaii together.
EDITED TO ADD FAKE BOXESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm glad that you're putting your foot down, and also that you're recognizing this is a problem with your husband, not with his ex wife. Yes she's clearly taken advantage of him and everything, but he's allowed it and the current issue is with him. 

MyNameIsNot

I don't know why you didn't put your foot down over him paying letting her live in his house rent free long ago. Supporting the kids is one thing, but supporting the ex wife so that she doesn't have to work is quite another. This has gotten out of hand, and you need to put a stop to it now.

This reminds me of my former boss. He had this whack job, unemployed, alcoholic wife. (Seriously, she used to call me at the office in the middle of the day, slurring her words and accusing me of all sorts of nonsense.) After 25 years, he finally divorced her. Their kids were in college, but they still had bedrooms at the wife's house. He agreed to pay her mortgage for a year or so until she could get her shit together. It's been 10 years, and he's still paying her bills. 

lyndausvi

MyNameIsNot said:

I don't know why you didn't put your foot down over him paying letting her live in his house rent free long ago. Supporting the kids is one thing, but supporting the ex wife so that she doesn't have to work is quite another. This has gotten out of hand, and you need to put a stop to it now.

This reminds me of my former boss. He had this whack job, unemployed, alcoholic wife. (Seriously, she used to call me at the office in the middle of the day, slurring her words and accusing me of all sorts of nonsense.) After 25 years, he finally divorced her. Their kids were in college, but they still had bedrooms at the wife's house. He agreed to pay her mortgage for a year or so until she could get her shit together. It's been 10 years, and he's still paying her bills. 

Now that is crazier then him paying his own mortgage and her letting her live their for free.

The house is still his.  So he will (hopefully) recoup some of the costs in the future if he choose to sell.

Paying rent or someone else's mortgage for 10 years?  Fuck that.

Which brings to me to another question how long is going to be allowed to live there?   As I said, I do not mind letting her live if his house rent free if it's a nice safe place for his kids to live.    But taking on ALL the other expenses + child support is ridiculous.  Is there an actual end?   After being in the house for 15 years are you even able going to be able to get her out?  

My MIL was allowed to stay in the house rent free when she divorced her husband until the girls got out of college. That was for about 15 years (there were other legal issues involved).  However, MIL still paid for the utilities, the oil, lawn maintenance, actually all the standard maintenance (leaky toilets, etc).  ETA - this and the amount of time she was allowed to live there was in the divorce decree)

I guess I'm trying to say is you and him think it's all great that they did a no lawyer divorce.  But by not having a lawyer help out your DH partially put himself in this situation.  I'm not sure how long ago they got divorced, but circumstances change.   A good lawyer helps you see things you would not think of.     Now you have a DH that is a softie, let's his ex take advantage of him.  I just don't see it going away anytime soon,

I would not stop support during this situation given the short time frame and all.  But they need to revisit things and somehow get her supporting herself.

sheknows6

lyndausvi said:

decembergrl2014 said:

@lyndausvi- I am off in the summers. (I'm a teacher.) H works all summer long. When they got divorced the only time they went to court was for the judge to approve everything. They did one of those quickie, no lawyer divorces. As for custody, they agreed on joint legal custody. He gets them on the weekends, and one night during the week to visit (not overnight). The kids and ex live in NJ. The school district the kids go to is about 30-40 minutes away, and they don't provide bus service. H and I live in NY.

Which means she has primary physical custody.   It's not necessarily easy to just say we will take the kids for 4-6 months to another state and you are thrown out on the streets. 

Address the ridiculousness of him paying for her entire lifestyle separate from this situation.

    Child support is one thing.   Heck, even him paying the mortgage doesn't bother me.  It's his house, so in theory he will get the money back when he sells.  Paying for her entire lifestyle?  That is a bit over-the-top and should have been addressed LONG before this situation came up.

He has basically allowed her to be a non-paying tenant.  She is being displaced do to no fault of her own.   As her landlord so-to-speak and the fact he voluntarily supported her all these years I think he needs to suck it up and pay for the short term rental.    

On another note:   Could you not have written up a lease for her so you could have gotten rental displacement funds?    Personally I would have had a lease anyway, but clearly your DH doesn't care he is being taken advantage of.

THIS!  They are divorced, and he is not financially responsible for her! 

MyNameIsNot

lyndausvi said:

MyNameIsNot said:

I don't know why you didn't put your foot down over him paying letting her live in his house rent free long ago. Supporting the kids is one thing, but supporting the ex wife so that she doesn't have to work is quite another. This has gotten out of hand, and you need to put a stop to it now.

This reminds me of my former boss. He had this whack job, unemployed, alcoholic wife. (Seriously, she used to call me at the office in the middle of the day, slurring her words and accusing me of all sorts of nonsense.) After 25 years, he finally divorced her. Their kids were in college, but they still had bedrooms at the wife's house. He agreed to pay her mortgage for a year or so until she could get her shit together. It's been 10 years, and he's still paying her bills. 

Now that is crazier then him paying his own mortgage and her letting her live their for free.

The house is still his.  So he will (hopefully) recoup some of the costs in the future if he choose to sell.

I don't want to quote you to death, so I'm editing out the parts that aren't relevant to what I want to say.

On boss man, that was a little unclear. It was both of their house, but she got possession in the divorce. She didn't have any money to buy him out, so he gets half the equity when she eventually sells it; it's not only her house. It's murky as shit, and the point remains that these things can really get out of hand.

On the second part, maybe. If the ex is living there with no lease, she might have a legal basis to claim all or some of the property. A good divorce lawyer could avoid that in the divorce agreement, but a lay person might not have thought about that or known how to include it correctly. (Which goes to your other point that I wanted to agree with but accidentally deleted from the quote instead.) 

OliveOilsMom

Make sure that your H knows NOW that you will not allow ex wife to live with you.  He needs to know you are serious about leaving if H thinks an acceptable solution is having the ex move in with the kids.

I agree with other PP, your H needs to get a lawyer involved in this to help him sort this all out.  Even though the divorce is settled, you can still go back and change certain provisions settled in the divorce.

BouxRadley

sheknows6 said:

lyndausvi said:

decembergrl2014 said:

@lyndausvi- I am off in the summers. (I'm a teacher.) H works all summer long. When they got divorced the only time they went to court was for the judge to approve everything. They did one of those quickie, no lawyer divorces. As for custody, they agreed on joint legal custody. He gets them on the weekends, and one night during the week to visit (not overnight). The kids and ex live in NJ. The school district the kids go to is about 30-40 minutes away, and they don't provide bus service. H and I live in NY.

Which means she has primary physical custody.   It's not necessarily easy to just say we will take the kids for 4-6 months to another state and you are thrown out on the streets. 

Address the ridiculousness of him paying for her entire lifestyle separate from this situation.

    Child support is one thing.   Heck, even him paying the mortgage doesn't bother me.  It's his house, so in theory he will get the money back when he sells.  Paying for her entire lifestyle?  That is a bit over-the-top and should have been addressed LONG before this situation came up.

He has basically allowed her to be a non-paying tenant.  She is being displaced do to no fault of her own.   As her landlord so-to-speak and the fact he voluntarily supported her all these years I think he needs to suck it up and pay for the short term rental.    

On another note:   Could you not have written up a lease for her so you could have gotten rental displacement funds?    Personally I would have had a lease anyway, but clearly your DH doesn't care he is being taken advantage of.

THIS!  They are divorced, and he is not financially responsible for her! 

Unless there was an alimony settlement as well?

sheknows6

BouxRadley said:

sheknows6 said:

lyndausvi said:

decembergrl2014 said:

@lyndausvi- I am off in the summers. (I'm a teacher.) H works all summer long. When they got divorced the only time they went to court was for the judge to approve everything. They did one of those quickie, no lawyer divorces. As for custody, they agreed on joint legal custody. He gets them on the weekends, and one night during the week to visit (not overnight). The kids and ex live in NJ. The school district the kids go to is about 30-40 minutes away, and they don't provide bus service. H and I live in NY.

Which means she has primary physical custody.   It's not necessarily easy to just say we will take the kids for 4-6 months to another state and you are thrown out on the streets. 

Address the ridiculousness of him paying for her entire lifestyle separate from this situation.

    Child support is one thing.   Heck, even him paying the mortgage doesn't bother me.  It's his house, so in theory he will get the money back when he sells.  Paying for her entire lifestyle?  That is a bit over-the-top and should have been addressed LONG before this situation came up.

He has basically allowed her to be a non-paying tenant.  She is being displaced do to no fault of her own.   As her landlord so-to-speak and the fact he voluntarily supported her all these years I think he needs to suck it up and pay for the short term rental.    

On another note:   Could you not have written up a lease for her so you could have gotten rental displacement funds?    Personally I would have had a lease anyway, but clearly your DH doesn't care he is being taken advantage of.

THIS!  They are divorced, and he is not financially responsible for her! 

Unless there was an alimony settlement as well?

She hasn't mentioned one and I'm assuming there isn't one. 

Not only that, alimony doesn't entail someone moving in with you and your new wife because you can't/won't financially take care of yourself. Alimony is not an excuse to never work (as OP has said she doesn't) and rely on your ex-husband for somewhere to live (as OP has said she is).

decembergrl2014

He does pay her alimony, but it's a very small amount.

photokitty

decembergrl2014 said:

He does pay her alimony, but it's a very small amount.

Is that bc the housing arrangement is in the divorce decree? Is he legally obligated to allow her to live there rent free?

Have you seen the divorce decree? I recommend you getting a copy, reading it yourself, to be certain you know the terms of it. My DH wasn't clear on his terms - or at least he couldn't properly explain them to me...he didn't have kids, but we did end up having to sue her. If I hadn't done my homework she would have continued to break the divorce decree bc DH didn't want to deal with her.

decembergrl2014

@photokitty: I have his Final Judgment of Divorce in front of me. It does say that he owns the property and that she can live there with the kids. There isn't any mention about her paying rent or anything like that.

The other thing that mentions employment is that he claims the kids on income taxes every year until she obtains employment. Once she gets a job then they alternate.

Again, they didn't use lawyers. They came up with these terms themselves. They went to some place called The Divorce Center. All they had to do was read it in front of a judge and have the judge sign off on it. That was it.

lyndausvi

Does it say how long she can live there?   In theory she  with one or both of the kids can live their for life.   Heck, she might be able to live there without the kids.

I'm not a lawyer, but i don't think it would take much for her to prove he is responsible for putting her up in this sort of case.  I.E they are being temporarily displaced due to no fault of their own.

themosthappy91

decembergrl2014 said:

@lyndausvi - he either has to do that, or force her to go to her mother's house. If neither one of those work then I'll have no choice but to ask him to find a place for himself too. It'll break my heart to do it, but I'm not a doormat. I already spoke to my mother about it too. Worse comes to worse she and I will go to Hawaii together.

I'm unclear about something- are you divorcing him if he chooses to move out with his ex-wife and kids rather than tell her she has to find somewhere else?

Also, did you ever address why your husband hasn't sought full custody of his kids?

PrettyGirlLost

I'm seeing a lawyer in your future. . .

lyndausvi

themosthappy91 said:

decembergrl2014 said:

@lyndausvi - he either has to do that, or force her to go to her mother's house. If neither one of those work then I'll have no choice but to ask him to find a place for himself too. It'll break my heart to do it, but I'm not a doormat. I already spoke to my mother about it too. Worse comes to worse she and I will go to Hawaii together.

I'm unclear about something- are you divorcing him if he chooses to move out with his ex-wife and kids rather than tell her she has to find somewhere else?

Also, did you ever address why your husband hasn't sought full custody of his kids?

Living in the house your ex pays for via a divorce decree and able to live off the alimony and CS he provides is not grounds for the ex-wife to lose custody.  Sure I side-eye her, but hey there are a lot of SAHPs out there.   This one just happens to be divorced.

Don't get me wrong, her H is getting screwed, but he is also the one who agreed to the arrangement.  He decided cheap out and not get a lawyer only to be screwed even more with this one sided-long term arrangement he made to "keep the peace" I'm guessing.

Time for H to rethink this arrangement and for god's sake set a limit on how long she can live in the house rent free.

themosthappy91

lyndausvi said:

themosthappy91 said:

decembergrl2014 said:

@lyndausvi - he either has to do that, or force her to go to her mother's house. If neither one of those work then I'll have no choice but to ask him to find a place for himself too. It'll break my heart to do it, but I'm not a doormat. I already spoke to my mother about it too. Worse comes to worse she and I will go to Hawaii together.

I'm unclear about something- are you divorcing him if he chooses to move out with his ex-wife and kids rather than tell her she has to find somewhere else?

Also, did you ever address why your husband hasn't sought full custody of his kids?

Living in the house your ex pays for via a divorce decree and able to live off the alimony and CS he provides is not grounds for the ex-wife to lose custody.  Sure I side-eye her, but hey there are a lot of SAHPs out there.   This one just happens to be divorced.

Don't get me wrong, her H is getting screwed, but he is also the one who agreed to the arrangement.  He decided cheap out and not get a lawyer only to be screwed even more with this one sided-long term arrangement he made to "keep the peace" I'm guessing.

Time for H to rethink this arrangement and for god's sake set a limit on how long she can live in the house rent free.

Yeah I guess that's a good point, he can't really paint her as irresponsible if he agreed to all of it up front... OP, wtf was your H thinking and what are you thinking letting him be so irresponsible with all this??

lyndausvi

themosthappy91 said:

lyndausvi said:

themosthappy91 said:

decembergrl2014 said:

@lyndausvi - he either has to do that, or force her to go to her mother's house. If neither one of those work then I'll have no choice but to ask him to find a place for himself too. It'll break my heart to do it, but I'm not a doormat. I already spoke to my mother about it too. Worse comes to worse she and I will go to Hawaii together.

I'm unclear about something- are you divorcing him if he chooses to move out with his ex-wife and kids rather than tell her she has to find somewhere else?

Also, did you ever address why your husband hasn't sought full custody of his kids?

Living in the house your ex pays for via a divorce decree and able to live off the alimony and CS he provides is not grounds for the ex-wife to lose custody.  Sure I side-eye her, but hey there are a lot of SAHPs out there.   This one just happens to be divorced.

Don't get me wrong, her H is getting screwed, but he is also the one who agreed to the arrangement.  He decided cheap out and not get a lawyer only to be screwed even more with this one sided-long term arrangement he made to "keep the peace" I'm guessing.

Time for H to rethink this arrangement and for god's sake set a limit on how long she can live in the house rent free.

Yeah I guess that's a good point, he can't really paint her as irresponsible if he agreed to all of it up front... OP, wtf was your H thinking and what are you thinking letting him be so irresponsible with all this??

A good lawyer would have put limits on stuff.  It sounds like it says he gets the tax breaks until she gets a job.    But nothing that says she HAS to get a job.    

My friend gave alimony to his ex-wife.   A huge amount actually, but it had a 5 year limit  Sure enough when she hit 5 years she was crying.   Oh well, you were the one who didn't do shit for 5 years and spent your fat alimony, had another kid from a different dad.     He still pays CS, but it wasn't enough to support her too.

The OP's husband's ex might be this frugal person who is able to live off a few grand and able to stay at home with the kids.

Or she is up to her eyeballs in debt trying to life a lifestyle she can not afford.

spglsp

decembergrl2014 said:

@photokitty: I have his Final Judgment of Divorce in front of me. It does say that he owns the property and that she can live there with the kids. There isn't any mention about her paying rent or anything like that. The other thing that mentions employment is that he claims the kids on income taxes every year until she obtains employment. Once she gets a job then they alternate. Again, they didn't use lawyers. They came up with these terms themselves. They went to some place called The Divorce Center. All they had to do was read it in front of a judge and have the judge sign off on it. That was it.

Oh boy, he needs a lawyer. I understand the desire to have an amicable divorce but this doesn't seem to leave room for a clean break. By the sound of it, she could choose to stay there even after the kids grow up and move out. Of course the real question here is does he want a lawyer. This arrangement doesn't seem to bother him as much as it bothers you and if that's the case, a serious relationship discussion may be in order. This must be a horribly, difficult time but it sounds like you're on the right track.

decembergrl2014

When he and I first started dating he told me they each had lawyers, but because she didn't work and had no money, he was going to have to pay for both of their lawyers. She was also staying at her parents house, and they hated him at the time, so they were influencing her a lot. He told me he feels guilty about the way he treated her when they were married. I told him he was to find a way to work through it, and to forgive himself. He also doesn't want to try for full custody. I think part of it is out of guilt, and he's afraid the kids will hate him for taking their mother away from them. He also reminded me of something tonight. His ex has a sister that also lives with the parents. The sister is very mean to his younger daughter. She calls her names like fat and stupid. H said he witnessed this first hand, and the sister still lives there. From what he told me that's the reason why his ex doesn't want to stay there. If that's true, I don't blame her. If someone were talking to my child like that I wouldn't want to be there either. When he reminded me of that I was tempted to back down, but I didn't. I know the kids love me and feel safe with me. Part of me wants to give in for their sake, but I'm scared to death that it'll be the final nail in the coffin, as far as my marriage goes. With this situation, he and I are hanging on by a thread.

huskypuppy14

I think it's incredibly stupid not to have had a divorce lawyer when there are kids involved. It's one thing if there are no kids and no shared property. A friend is going through a divorce and he and his almost ex are having an amicable split with no lawyers, no alimony or anything. Fine do what you want.

I had to have a lawyer when I bought my house, it's a Massachusetts law. You bet your ass I'd have a lawyer if I had kids and were getting a divorce.

 

spglsp

decembergrl2014 said:

When he and I first started dating he told me they each had lawyers, but because she didn't work and had no money, he was going to have to pay for both of their lawyers. She was also staying at her parents house, and they hated him at the time, so they were influencing her a lot.

He told me he feels guilty about the way he treated her when they were married. I told him he was to find a way to work through it, and to forgive himself. He also doesn't want to try for full custody. I think part of it is out of guilt, and he's afraid the kids will hate him for taking their mother away from them.

He also reminded me of something tonight. His ex has a sister that also lives with the parents. The sister is very mean to his younger daughter. She calls her names like fat and stupid. H said he witnessed this first hand, and the sister still lives there. From what he told me that's the reason why his ex doesn't want to stay there. If that's true, I don't blame her. If someone were talking to my child like that I wouldn't want to be there either.

When he reminded me of that I was tempted to back down, but I didn't. I know the kids love me and feel safe with me. Part of me wants to give in for their sake, but I'm scared to death that it'll be the final nail in the coffin, as far as my marriage goes. With this situation, he and I are hanging on by a thread.

That "pay for her lawyer" thing is just not how it works; you do not pay for your ex's divorce lawyer. I stand by my previous post, he is deeply entrenched and whether that's from guilt or anything else, it does not matter. The kids don't have to stay with some hateful relative, they can stay with you; she can't. If neither of them can prioritize the kids having stable housing over her hurt feelings at not being included, that's also a problem. No one is going to be homeless here, but it doesn't seem like there is a solution that will fully satisfy all three parties.

photokitty

I think you are in a very bad situation. I would be concerned about myself and what this days for my marriage.

That said, it sounds like he needs to get them a rental that he can sublet after she moves back into his house. He's not going to get lawyer, go for custody, make her live with family or gif her own solution...this is your best one. However, this will probably cancel the option of renters assistance.

I honestly don't believe he can't find a landlord willing to do a 6 month lease given the circumstances. I think he wants her to move in with you...I think that's a ginormous red flag. He's not emotionally divorced from her. I hope you know the truth about why he feels so guilty.

I hope you keep your finances separate and are protecting your assets, just in case. GL!

photokitty

decembergrl2014 said:

When he and I first started dating he told me they each had lawyers, but because she didn't work and had no money, he was going to have to pay for both of their lawyers. She was also staying at her parents house, and they hated him at the time, so they were influencing her a lot.

He told me he feels guilty about the way he treated her when they were married. I told him he was to find a way to work through it, and to forgive himself. He also doesn't want to try for full custody. I think part of it is out of guilt, and he's afraid the kids will hate him for taking their mother away from them.

He also reminded me of something tonight. His ex has a sister that also lives with the parents. The sister is very mean to his younger daughter. She calls her names like fat and stupid. H said he witnessed this first hand, and the sister still lives there. From what he told me that's the reason why his ex doesn't want to stay there. If that's true, I don't blame her. If someone were talking to my child like that I wouldn't want to be there either.

When he reminded me of that I was tempted to back down, but I didn't. I know the kids love me and feel safe with me. Part of me wants to give in for their sake, but I'm scared to death that it'll be the final nail in the coffin, as far as my marriage goes. With this situation, he and I are hanging on by a thread.

Ps - on the mean sister...if someone talk to my kid that way...

if I was the ex wife and me and my kids needed a place to stay, and I wasn't willing to live with my parents because of my sister, I would get a job or do whatever it took to keep them safe. your husband enables her to not have to make any difficult decisions. at the same time, he forces you to make all sorts of difficult decisions.

decembergrl2014

@photokitty - I agree completely. I told him that this is what his enabling has gotten him: six miserable people, three of them being innocent kids.

As for the finances, yes, they are separate. The only thing we have together is a joint savings account with some wedding money in it.

photokitty

Well then he should get her a rental he can sublet after, and himself a second job so he can pay for it all. I would definitely not help him pay for this mess he created and is unwilling to even try to fix.

You take care of you...bc it doesn't appear anyone else is going to.

decembergrl2014

I know. No one is responsible for our happiness except us. Someone's putting their foot down: either him with her, or me with him.

novella1186

i just want to say that I'm really sorry you're in this situation. It sucks, and it must be really tough to try to figure out how to work through it. I hope you can find a solution that makes you and your H happy. Best of luck. 

PrettyGirlLost

In a lot of states it's extremely difficult to get sole custody of children during or after a divorce, especially it seems for the husband. There has to be a clear and substantial case of abuse, neglect, etc. So it may not even be realistic or feasible for OP's husband to seek full custody.

But it's pretty clear he needs to stop pissing around and get a lawyer now, before renting an apartment for his ex or doing anything else. These agreements where OPs husband totally subsidizes his ex, a grown add adult, needs to come to a definitive end. She needs to get a job, pay for her own housing, etc.


Otherwise OP might as well start looking for her own lawyer, one that specializes in divorce.

decembergrl2014

The state of New Jersey is one of those states where it's next to impossible to separate children from their mother. Same with NY.

Unless a miracle happens, I don't think he and I will make it. A divorce shouldn't be so bad financially. We are married less than a year, and everything is separate.

I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around the fact that I will probably end up being twice divorced. I know it's not the worst thing in the world. It's just sad.

@novella1186: thank you for your kind words