How to respectfully decline yarmulke at wedding?

LD1970

STARMOON44 said:

LD1970 said:

SP29 said:

@Mobkaz Just curious, why the head covering?

I read in someone's previous post they disagree with head covering because it's oppressive to women. So I envisioned a large head covering, covering all the hair, and likely the neck. But the head covering in Mobkaz's post is literally a piece of lace (which I can see could be used quite fashionably, in the case of the "cool girls")- hair, face, neck still visible. I don't see how that will keep the boys away . 

It's not about the boys, its covering your head before god.

Oh I didn't realize that men wear veils too.

Missed where the original comment referenced. I was talking about Judaism. I can't speak to Catholicism unless I ask my husband.

PrettyGirlLost

LD1970 said:

I was talking solely about Judaism. We don't have Christ. This passage doesn't apply.

Gotcha.

LD1970

Jen4948 said:

huskypuppy14 said:

Viczaesar said:

mrsdowster said:

STARMOON44 said:

LD1970 said:

mrsdowster, Kneeling during prayer is forbidden in Judaism.  Don't expect it from us or you'll be disappointed.  You'd also be wrong to take it as disrespect.

I used my husband as an example of someone who has been to events in synagogues with me.  (NOT "temple," as that's offensive to religious Jews - since I know you're all looking to refrain from offending - because it trivializes The Temple in Jerusalem, which was destroyed.  I was raised and taught to say only shul or synagogue, never temple.)

Over the years, I have belonged to both conservative and orthodox synagogues.  Events we've attended have been in conservative and reform synagogues.  There is NOTHING rude about saying "No, thank you," and as stated by the correct people above, covering one's head in a reform and most conservative synagogues is a CUSTOM, not a RULE.  I never said my husband got huffy, defensive, rude, or stormed out.  I said that kippahs have been OFFERED to, not FOISTED upon him, either by being in a basket at the entrance or by someone handing them out.  He's either simply not taken one from the basket or politely said, "No, thank you" to the person offering.  There was no confrontation or issue.  The basket wasn't struck by lightning (and neither was my husband), and the human said, "OK," and moved on to the next guest.  Done and done.

It should be noted that as a married woman, I'm supposed to, under Jewish law, keep my head covered *at all times*.  Not just in synagogue, but definitely in synagogue.  I don't, and I don't cover my head for events in synagogue either.  Interestingly, no one's ever approached me trying to offer me one of those lace bits they hand out, or looked at me strangely for not covering my head.  I didn't even realize the omission until just now.  At any rate, these are my stomping grounds, my "space," if you will, and I'm telling you myself it's not a rule unless you're in an orthodox shul, and it's not rude.

Now, were we invited to an orthodox shul for an event, I'd warn H about the need to wear a kippah and have to make a choice on whether I would go and cover my head as well.  I wouldn't expect to go to an orthodox event and not cover.
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SITB

@LD1970  Thanks for clarifying.

I really don't care if I offended anyone or not or if I'm wrong. Maybe my response was a little too long but basically I just wanted to let the OP know that, as other PP's have stated the "when in Rome" attitude...just take the yarmulke when offered in the synagogue.

"I really don't care if I'm wrong" is such an interesting viewpoint.

oh Boy, let the nit-picking begin. I guess that is what i get for typing a long response to the OP.

As for my "I really don't care" bit, this is in response to LD's bolded quote above.  I'm not trying to be politically correct here...but if you noticed, LD clarified and I corrected.

have a great weekend.

Why not?  'I don't care if I offended anyone and I don't care if I'm wrong' is a shitty and bizarre attitude to have. 


Especially because she is wrong. If she had read the previous 3 pages, she would have seen multiple posts (including mine) that stated why they don't kneel. And my grandmother and great grandmother who are/were practicing Catholics didn't kneel either because physically they could not! 
I think most if not all people agreed it was respectful to sit and stand with everyone else.

I asked my husband (who is a reform Jew). He said it is respectful to wear a yamulke in synagogue, but at a Jewish wedding not in a synagogue he said it didn't matter if non Jews wore it or not.  The op said this wedding is not in a synagogue, so if her husband really doesn't want to wear one, than don't.




Something the OP never said is if the sponsoring synagogue is Reform.

If the sponsoring synagogue is Orthodox, then even if the ceremony isn't taking place in the building, all males, regardless of their religious affiliation, need to have their heads covered.  No exceptions.

If it's Conservative, then congregations who are stricter about this are going to also require all males to cover their heads, regardless of their religious affiliation.

Neither Orthodox nor stricter Conservative congregations are going to be impressed by what Reform rabbis have to say or don't about whether yarmulkes are necessary-or, for that matter, many other aspects of Judaism.

So unless the ceremony is being sponsored by a Reform rabbi and congregation, don't assume that just because they don't require males to cover their heads that your husband can politely expect not to cover his.  It depends on the congregation's rules.

There may be no "sponsoring synagogue." Rabbis can be hired to perform weddings same as any other officiant, and the wedding would be wholly unrelated to the synagogue from whence the rabbi may come.

LD1970

Jen4948 said:

Viczaesar said:

Jen4948 said:

huskypuppy14 said:

Viczaesar said:

mrsdowster said:

STARMOON44 said:

LD1970 said:

mrsdowster, Kneeling during prayer is forbidden in Judaism.  Don't expect it from us or you'll be disappointed.  You'd also be wrong to take it as disrespect.

I used my husband as an example of someone who has been to events in synagogues with me.  (NOT "temple," as that's offensive to religious Jews - since I know you're all looking to refrain from offending - because it trivializes The Temple in Jerusalem, which was destroyed.  I was raised and taught to say only shul or synagogue, never temple.)

Over the years, I have belonged to both conservative and orthodox synagogues.  Events we've attended have been in conservative and reform synagogues.  There is NOTHING rude about saying "No, thank you," and as stated by the correct people above, covering one's head in a reform and most conservative synagogues is a CUSTOM, not a RULE.  I never said my husband got huffy, defensive, rude, or stormed out.  I said that kippahs have been OFFERED to, not FOISTED upon him, either by being in a basket at the entrance or by someone handing them out.  He's either simply not taken one from the basket or politely said, "No, thank you" to the person offering.  There was no confrontation or issue.  The basket wasn't struck by lightning (and neither was my husband), and the human said, "OK," and moved on to the next guest.  Done and done.

It should be noted that as a married woman, I'm supposed to, under Jewish law, keep my head covered *at all times*.  Not just in synagogue, but definitely in synagogue.  I don't, and I don't cover my head for events in synagogue either.  Interestingly, no one's ever approached me trying to offer me one of those lace bits they hand out, or looked at me strangely for not covering my head.  I didn't even realize the omission until just now.  At any rate, these are my stomping grounds, my "space," if you will, and I'm telling you myself it's not a rule unless you're in an orthodox shul, and it's not rude.

Now, were we invited to an orthodox shul for an event, I'd warn H about the need to wear a kippah and have to make a choice on whether I would go and cover my head as well.  I wouldn't expect to go to an orthodox event and not cover.
-----------------------------------------------------
SITB

@LD1970  Thanks for clarifying.

I really don't care if I offended anyone or not or if I'm wrong. Maybe my response was a little too long but basically I just wanted to let the OP know that, as other PP's have stated the "when in Rome" attitude...just take the yarmulke when offered in the synagogue.

"I really don't care if I'm wrong" is such an interesting viewpoint.

oh Boy, let the nit-picking begin. I guess that is what i get for typing a long response to the OP.

As for my "I really don't care" bit, this is in response to LD's bolded quote above.  I'm not trying to be politically correct here...but if you noticed, LD clarified and I corrected.

have a great weekend.

Why not?  'I don't care if I offended anyone and I don't care if I'm wrong' is a shitty and bizarre attitude to have. 

Especially because she is wrong. If she had read the previous 3 pages, she would have seen multiple posts (including mine) that stated why they don't kneel. And my grandmother and great grandmother who are/were practicing Catholics didn't kneel either because physically they could not! 
I think most if not all people agreed it was respectful to sit and stand with everyone else.

I asked my husband (who is a reform Jew). He said it is respectful to wear a yamulke in synagogue, but at a Jewish wedding not in a synagogue he said it didn't matter if non Jews wore it or not.  The op said this wedding is not in a synagogue, so if her husband really doesn't want to wear one, than don't.




Something the OP never said is if the sponsoring synagogue is Reform.

If the sponsoring synagogue is Orthodox, then even if the ceremony isn't taking place in the building, all males, regardless of their religious affiliation, need to have their heads covered.  No exceptions.

If it's Conservative, then congregations who are stricter about this are going to also require all males to cover their heads, regardless of their religious affiliation.

Neither Orthodox nor stricter Conservative congregations are going to be impressed by what Reform rabbis have to say or don't about whether yarmulkes are necessary-or, for that matter, many other aspects of Judaism.

So unless the ceremony is being sponsored by a Reform rabbi and congregation, don't assume that just because they don't require males to cover their heads that your husband can politely expect not to cover his.  It depends on the congregation's rules.

As some of us have been saying.


So, OP, if they're going to bring yarmulkes around at the wedding you and your husband are invited to, that suggests to me that at this wedding Reform standards don't apply because they want all men to cover their heads. In which case your husband needs to wear a hat of his own, accept the yarmulke and wear it, or not attend. Saying "no thanks" or accepting a yarmulke and not wearing it are not polite options here.

YES THEY ARE. OFFERING = \ = ORDERING.

LD1970

BlondeBride2016 said:

Maybe just ask the bride if it's required? Then you can make an informed decisions minus so much speculation. If it's stressing you out, it's easily resolved!

You know your comfort level. I attended a Catholic baptism of a relative recently, and I dutifully said all the right things at the right times, and shook hands etc... but I left with a nasty taste in my mouth.

So for me, personally, I will not attend any more Catholic baptism services. We have one coming up, which we have respectfully declined, and will instead celebrate with the family at their "after party". This caused no offence whatsoever. It's possible to stand by your own principles while still maintaining positive relationships and celebrating with loved ones!

You know you can go and not say the prayers if it's not your religion, right? I'm sure they'd prefer you attend and be respectfully silent, rather than eecire words you don't believe and make a farce of the event.

STARMOON44

LD1970 said:

BlondeBride2016 said:

Maybe just ask the bride if it's required? Then you can make an informed decisions minus so much speculation. If it's stressing you out, it's easily resolved!

You know your comfort level. I attended a Catholic baptism of a relative recently, and I dutifully said all the right things at the right times, and shook hands etc... but I left with a nasty taste in my mouth.

So for me, personally, I will not attend any more Catholic baptism services. We have one coming up, which we have respectfully declined, and will instead celebrate with the family at their "after party". This caused no offence whatsoever. It's possible to stand by your own principles while still maintaining positive relationships and celebrating with loved ones!

You know you can go and not say the prayers if it's not your religion, right? I'm sure they'd prefer you attend and be respectfully silent, rather than eecire words you don't believe and make a farce of the event.

I think that's more than a bit harsh. There are plenty of non-believers in the pews every week- it doesn't make a farce of the service. It sounds like BlondeBride thought she might be comfortable with the service, gave it a try, didn't like it, and will do differently next time. That certainly doesn't make the baptism service a farce in my book.

Jen4948

LD1970 said:

Jen4948 said:

huskypuppy14 said:

Viczaesar said:

mrsdowster said:

STARMOON44 said:

LD1970 said:

mrsdowster, Kneeling during prayer is forbidden in Judaism.  Don't expect it from us or you'll be disappointed.  You'd also be wrong to take it as disrespect.

I used my husband as an example of someone who has been to events in synagogues with me.  (NOT "temple," as that's offensive to religious Jews - since I know you're all looking to refrain from offending - because it trivializes The Temple in Jerusalem, which was destroyed.  I was raised and taught to say only shul or synagogue, never temple.)

Over the years, I have belonged to both conservative and orthodox synagogues.  Events we've attended have been in conservative and reform synagogues.  There is NOTHING rude about saying "No, thank you," and as stated by the correct people above, covering one's head in a reform and most conservative synagogues is a CUSTOM, not a RULE.  I never said my husband got huffy, defensive, rude, or stormed out.  I said that kippahs have been OFFERED to, not FOISTED upon him, either by being in a basket at the entrance or by someone handing them out.  He's either simply not taken one from the basket or politely said, "No, thank you" to the person offering.  There was no confrontation or issue.  The basket wasn't struck by lightning (and neither was my husband), and the human said, "OK," and moved on to the next guest.  Done and done.

It should be noted that as a married woman, I'm supposed to, under Jewish law, keep my head covered *at all times*.  Not just in synagogue, but definitely in synagogue.  I don't, and I don't cover my head for events in synagogue either.  Interestingly, no one's ever approached me trying to offer me one of those lace bits they hand out, or looked at me strangely for not covering my head.  I didn't even realize the omission until just now.  At any rate, these are my stomping grounds, my "space," if you will, and I'm telling you myself it's not a rule unless you're in an orthodox shul, and it's not rude.

Now, were we invited to an orthodox shul for an event, I'd warn H about the need to wear a kippah and have to make a choice on whether I would go and cover my head as well.  I wouldn't expect to go to an orthodox event and not cover.
-----------------------------------------------------
SITB

@LD1970  Thanks for clarifying.

I really don't care if I offended anyone or not or if I'm wrong. Maybe my response was a little too long but basically I just wanted to let the OP know that, as other PP's have stated the "when in Rome" attitude...just take the yarmulke when offered in the synagogue.

"I really don't care if I'm wrong" is such an interesting viewpoint.

oh Boy, let the nit-picking begin. I guess that is what i get for typing a long response to the OP.

As for my "I really don't care" bit, this is in response to LD's bolded quote above.  I'm not trying to be politically correct here...but if you noticed, LD clarified and I corrected.

have a great weekend.

Why not?  'I don't care if I offended anyone and I don't care if I'm wrong' is a shitty and bizarre attitude to have. 

Especially because she is wrong. If she had read the previous 3 pages, she would have seen multiple posts (including mine) that stated why they don't kneel. And my grandmother and great grandmother who are/were practicing Catholics didn't kneel either because physically they could not! 
I think most if not all people agreed it was respectful to sit and stand with everyone else.

I asked my husband (who is a reform Jew). He said it is respectful to wear a yamulke in synagogue, but at a Jewish wedding not in a synagogue he said it didn't matter if non Jews wore it or not.  The op said this wedding is not in a synagogue, so if her husband really doesn't want to wear one, than don't.

Something the OP never said is if the sponsoring synagogue is Reform.

If the sponsoring synagogue is Orthodox, then even if the ceremony isn't taking place in the building, all males, regardless of their religious affiliation, need to have their heads covered.  No exceptions.

If it's Conservative, then congregations who are stricter about this are going to also require all males to cover their heads, regardless of their religious affiliation.

Neither Orthodox nor stricter Conservative congregations are going to be impressed by what Reform rabbis have to say or don't about whether yarmulkes are necessary-or, for that matter, many other aspects of Judaism.

So unless the ceremony is being sponsored by a Reform rabbi and congregation, don't assume that just because they don't require males to cover their heads that your husband can politely expect not to cover his.  It depends on the congregation's rules.

As some of us have been saying.

So, OP, if they're going to bring yarmulkes around at the wedding you and your husband are invited to, that suggests to me that at this wedding Reform standards don't apply because they want all men to cover their heads. In which case your husband needs to wear a hat of his own, accept the yarmulke and wear it, or not attend. Saying "no thanks" or accepting a yarmulke and not wearing it are not polite options here.

YES THEY ARE. OFFERING = \ = ORDERING.

They wouldn't "offer" if it weren't required.

syoun1nj

LD1970 said:

Maybe just ask the bride if it's required? Then you can make an informed decisions minus so much speculation. If it's stressing you out, it's easily resolved! You know your comfort level. I attended a Catholic baptism of a relative recently, and I dutifully said all the right things at the right times, and shook hands etc... but I left with a nasty taste in my mouth. So for me, personally, I will not attend any more Catholic baptism services. We have one coming up, which we have respectfully declined, and will instead celebrate with the family at their "after party". This caused no offence whatsoever. It's possible to stand by your own principles while still maintaining positive relationships and celebrating with loved ones!

You know you can go and not say the prayers if it's not your religion, right? I'm sure they'd prefer you attend and be respectfully silent, rather than eecire words you don't believe and make a farce of the event.

Not to speak for the OP (on respectfully declining) but I won't attend baptisms, either -  because I don't agree with baptizing infants, not because of the prayers. I'll attend religious weddings and not say the prayers or sing hymns or what have you - I also won't kneel - but I support marriage/my friends marrying. I will dress appropriately. I don't think choosing not to attend a baptism because the practice/prayer makes you uncomfortable is making a farce of it, though maybe I'm misunderstanding your comment. 

huskypuppy14

YES THEY ARE. OFFERING = \ = ORDERING.

They wouldn't "offer" if it weren't required.


Jen- this is just not true in all cases. Maybe it's just true in all the weddings you have attended.

My friend had a wedding in a conservative synagogue and she told guests they didn't have to wear the yarmulke (that were offered) if they didn't want to (though most did). She is just as Jewish as you, so she knows the rules. If it were required like you keep insisting, she obviously wouldn't have told people they didn't have to. 

Jen4948

huskypuppy14 said:

YES THEY ARE. OFFERING = \ = ORDERING.

They wouldn't "offer" if it weren't required.


Jen- this is just not true in all cases. Maybe it's just true in all the weddings you have attended.

My friend had a wedding in a conservative synagogue and she told guests they didn't have to wear the yarmulke (that were offered) if they didn't want to (though most did). She is just as Jewish as you, so she knows the rules. If it were required like you keep insisting, she obviously wouldn't have told people they didn't have to. 

But that's YOUR experience.  If this bride feels the need to explain in advance that they are going to be offering yarmulkes, that suggests that the sponsoring congregation DOES require it.  Otherwise, she wouldn't have any need to explain it up front and everyone could just go with the flow.

Viczaesar

Jen4948 said:

Jen4948 said:

huskypuppy14 said:

Viczaesar said:

mrsdowster said:

STARMOON44 said:

LD1970 said:

mrsdowster, Kneeling during prayer is forbidden in Judaism.  Don't expect it from us or you'll be disappointed.  You'd also be wrong to take it as disrespect.

I used my husband as an example of someone who has been to events in synagogues with me.  (NOT "temple," as that's offensive to religious Jews - since I know you're all looking to refrain from offending - because it trivializes The Temple in Jerusalem, which was destroyed.  I was raised and taught to say only shul or synagogue, never temple.)

Over the years, I have belonged to both conservative and orthodox synagogues.  Events we've attended have been in conservative and reform synagogues.  There is NOTHING rude about saying "No, thank you," and as stated by the correct people above, covering one's head in a reform and most conservative synagogues is a CUSTOM, not a RULE.  I never said my husband got huffy, defensive, rude, or stormed out.  I said that kippahs have been OFFERED to, not FOISTED upon him, either by being in a basket at the entrance or by someone handing them out.  He's either simply not taken one from the basket or politely said, "No, thank you" to the person offering.  There was no confrontation or issue.  The basket wasn't struck by lightning (and neither was my husband), and the human said, "OK," and moved on to the next guest.  Done and done.

It should be noted that as a married woman, I'm supposed to, under Jewish law, keep my head covered *at all times*.  Not just in synagogue, but definitely in synagogue.  I don't, and I don't cover my head for events in synagogue either.  Interestingly, no one's ever approached me trying to offer me one of those lace bits they hand out, or looked at me strangely for not covering my head.  I didn't even realize the omission until just now.  At any rate, these are my stomping grounds, my "space," if you will, and I'm telling you myself it's not a rule unless you're in an orthodox shul, and it's not rude.

Now, were we invited to an orthodox shul for an event, I'd warn H about the need to wear a kippah and have to make a choice on whether I would go and cover my head as well.  I wouldn't expect to go to an orthodox event and not cover.
-----------------------------------------------------
SITB

@LD1970  Thanks for clarifying.

I really don't care if I offended anyone or not or if I'm wrong. Maybe my response was a little too long but basically I just wanted to let the OP know that, as other PP's have stated the "when in Rome" attitude...just take the yarmulke when offered in the synagogue.

"I really don't care if I'm wrong" is such an interesting viewpoint.

oh Boy, let the nit-picking begin. I guess that is what i get for typing a long response to the OP.

As for my "I really don't care" bit, this is in response to LD's bolded quote above.  I'm not trying to be politically correct here...but if you noticed, LD clarified and I corrected.

have a great weekend.

Why not?  'I don't care if I offended anyone and I don't care if I'm wrong' is a shitty and bizarre attitude to have. 

Especially because she is wrong. If she had read the previous 3 pages, she would have seen multiple posts (including mine) that stated why they don't kneel. And my grandmother and great grandmother who are/were practicing Catholics didn't kneel either because physically they could not! 
I think most if not all people agreed it was respectful to sit and stand with everyone else.

I asked my husband (who is a reform Jew). He said it is respectful to wear a yamulke in synagogue, but at a Jewish wedding not in a synagogue he said it didn't matter if non Jews wore it or not.  The op said this wedding is not in a synagogue, so if her husband really doesn't want to wear one, than don't.

Something the OP never said is if the sponsoring synagogue is Reform.

If the sponsoring synagogue is Orthodox, then even if the ceremony isn't taking place in the building, all males, regardless of their religious affiliation, need to have their heads covered.  No exceptions.

If it's Conservative, then congregations who are stricter about this are going to also require all males to cover their heads, regardless of their religious affiliation.

Neither Orthodox nor stricter Conservative congregations are going to be impressed by what Reform rabbis have to say or don't about whether yarmulkes are necessary-or, for that matter, many other aspects of Judaism.

So unless the ceremony is being sponsored by a Reform rabbi and congregation, don't assume that just because they don't require males to cover their heads that your husband can politely expect not to cover his.  It depends on the congregation's rules.

As some of us have been saying.

So, OP, if they're going to bring yarmulkes around at the wedding you and your husband are invited to, that suggests to me that at this wedding Reform standards don't apply because they want all men to cover their heads. In which case your husband needs to wear a hat of his own, accept the yarmulke and wear it, or not attend. Saying "no thanks" or accepting a yarmulke and not wearing it are not polite options here.

No, not necessarily.  I've been to Reform events where yarmulkes were provided for the male guests should they choose to wear one.  The only way to know if it's required is to politely decline and see what they say in response.

Viczaesar

Jen4948 said:

LD1970 said:

Jen4948 said:

huskypuppy14 said:

Viczaesar said:

mrsdowster said:

STARMOON44 said:

LD1970 said:

mrsdowster, Kneeling during prayer is forbidden in Judaism.  Don't expect it from us or you'll be disappointed.  You'd also be wrong to take it as disrespect.

I used my husband as an example of someone who has been to events in synagogues with me.  (NOT "temple," as that's offensive to religious Jews - since I know you're all looking to refrain from offending - because it trivializes The Temple in Jerusalem, which was destroyed.  I was raised and taught to say only shul or synagogue, never temple.)

Over the years, I have belonged to both conservative and orthodox synagogues.  Events we've attended have been in conservative and reform synagogues.  There is NOTHING rude about saying "No, thank you," and as stated by the correct people above, covering one's head in a reform and most conservative synagogues is a CUSTOM, not a RULE.  I never said my husband got huffy, defensive, rude, or stormed out.  I said that kippahs have been OFFERED to, not FOISTED upon him, either by being in a basket at the entrance or by someone handing them out.  He's either simply not taken one from the basket or politely said, "No, thank you" to the person offering.  There was no confrontation or issue.  The basket wasn't struck by lightning (and neither was my husband), and the human said, "OK," and moved on to the next guest.  Done and done.

It should be noted that as a married woman, I'm supposed to, under Jewish law, keep my head covered *at all times*.  Not just in synagogue, but definitely in synagogue.  I don't, and I don't cover my head for events in synagogue either.  Interestingly, no one's ever approached me trying to offer me one of those lace bits they hand out, or looked at me strangely for not covering my head.  I didn't even realize the omission until just now.  At any rate, these are my stomping grounds, my "space," if you will, and I'm telling you myself it's not a rule unless you're in an orthodox shul, and it's not rude.

Now, were we invited to an orthodox shul for an event, I'd warn H about the need to wear a kippah and have to make a choice on whether I would go and cover my head as well.  I wouldn't expect to go to an orthodox event and not cover.
-----------------------------------------------------
SITB

@LD1970  Thanks for clarifying.

I really don't care if I offended anyone or not or if I'm wrong. Maybe my response was a little too long but basically I just wanted to let the OP know that, as other PP's have stated the "when in Rome" attitude...just take the yarmulke when offered in the synagogue.

"I really don't care if I'm wrong" is such an interesting viewpoint.

oh Boy, let the nit-picking begin. I guess that is what i get for typing a long response to the OP.

As for my "I really don't care" bit, this is in response to LD's bolded quote above.  I'm not trying to be politically correct here...but if you noticed, LD clarified and I corrected.

have a great weekend.

Why not?  'I don't care if I offended anyone and I don't care if I'm wrong' is a shitty and bizarre attitude to have. 

Especially because she is wrong. If she had read the previous 3 pages, she would have seen multiple posts (including mine) that stated why they don't kneel. And my grandmother and great grandmother who are/were practicing Catholics didn't kneel either because physically they could not! 
I think most if not all people agreed it was respectful to sit and stand with everyone else.

I asked my husband (who is a reform Jew). He said it is respectful to wear a yamulke in synagogue, but at a Jewish wedding not in a synagogue he said it didn't matter if non Jews wore it or not.  The op said this wedding is not in a synagogue, so if her husband really doesn't want to wear one, than don't.

Something the OP never said is if the sponsoring synagogue is Reform.

If the sponsoring synagogue is Orthodox, then even if the ceremony isn't taking place in the building, all males, regardless of their religious affiliation, need to have their heads covered.  No exceptions.

If it's Conservative, then congregations who are stricter about this are going to also require all males to cover their heads, regardless of their religious affiliation.

Neither Orthodox nor stricter Conservative congregations are going to be impressed by what Reform rabbis have to say or don't about whether yarmulkes are necessary-or, for that matter, many other aspects of Judaism.

So unless the ceremony is being sponsored by a Reform rabbi and congregation, don't assume that just because they don't require males to cover their heads that your husband can politely expect not to cover his.  It depends on the congregation's rules.

As some of us have been saying.

So, OP, if they're going to bring yarmulkes around at the wedding you and your husband are invited to, that suggests to me that at this wedding Reform standards don't apply because they want all men to cover their heads. In which case your husband needs to wear a hat of his own, accept the yarmulke and wear it, or not attend. Saying "no thanks" or accepting a yarmulke and not wearing it are not polite options here.

YES THEY ARE. OFFERING = \ = ORDERING.

They wouldn't "offer" if it weren't required.

Again, straight up not true.  Please stop making blanket statements based on  your own assumptions and life experience.

Viczaesar

Jen4948 said:

huskypuppy14 said:

YES THEY ARE. OFFERING = \ = ORDERING.

They wouldn't "offer" if it weren't required.


Jen- this is just not true in all cases. Maybe it's just true in all the weddings you have attended.

My friend had a wedding in a conservative synagogue and she told guests they didn't have to wear the yarmulke (that were offered) if they didn't want to (though most did). She is just as Jewish as you, so she knows the rules. If it were required like you keep insisting, she obviously wouldn't have told people they didn't have to. 

But that's YOUR experience.  If this bride feels the need to explain in advance that they are going to be offering yarmulkes, that suggests that the sponsoring congregation DOES require it.  Otherwise, she wouldn't have any need to explain it up front and everyone could just go with the flow.

FFS, stop making up details to back up your assertions.  The OP said "My husband and I are Catholic and will be attending a Jewish wedding (first time).  I understand they traditionally offer a yarmulke  for the male guests to wear."  She said absolutely nothing about the bride explaining in advance that they are going to be offering yarmulkes, either in her first post or her follow-up posts.

banana468

I need to see if that Jump to Conclusions game from Office Space will ever take off.... 

MegEn1

That's all I got, now. But what a great discussion! 

BlondeBride2016

STARMOON44 said:

Maybe just ask the bride if it's required? Then you can make an informed decisions minus so much speculation. If it's stressing you out, it's easily resolved! You know your comfort level. I attended a Catholic baptism of a relative recently, and I dutifully said all the right things at the right times, and shook hands etc... but I left with a nasty taste in my mouth. So for me, personally, I will not attend any more Catholic baptism services. We have one coming up, which we have respectfully declined, and will instead celebrate with the family at their "after party". This caused no offence whatsoever. It's possible to stand by your own principles while still maintaining positive relationships and celebrating with loved ones!

You know you can go and not say the prayers if it's not your religion, right? I'm sure they'd prefer you attend and be respectfully silent, rather than eecire words you don't believe and make a farce of the event.

I think that's more than a bit harsh. There are plenty of non-believers in the pews every week- it doesn't make a farce of the service. It sounds like BlondeBride thought she might be comfortable with the service, gave it a try, didn't like it, and will do differently next time. That certainly doesn't make the baptism service a farce in my book.

That was absolutely the case!

BlondeBride2016

holyguacamole79 said:

Maybe just ask the bride if it's required? Then you can make an informed decisions minus so much speculation. If it's stressing you out, it's easily resolved! You know your comfort level. I attended a Catholic baptism of a relative recently, and I dutifully said all the right things at the right times, and shook hands etc... but I left with a nasty taste in my mouth. So for me, personally, I will not attend any more Catholic baptism services. We have one coming up, which we have respectfully declined, and will instead celebrate with the family at their "after party". This caused no offence whatsoever. It's possible to stand by your own principles while still maintaining positive relationships and celebrating with loved ones!

I'm curious. ...we've was so bad about a baptism?

Oh, it was just horrible! I should preface this by saying I respect other's rights to have their own beliefs and do what they like etc...  but I felt very uncomfortable during the service. 

I was under the impression that a baptism was a nice, love-filled family occasion, celebrating the child. But in actuality, there was so much talk of the devil, sin and hell, that I found it quite scary. The entire thing seemed to be about protecting the child from the devil, as though it was a very real threat that the child could somehow be "taken" by the devil! From my non-Catholic background, I found it shocking. Combined with all the sitting and standing and shaking hands, it had a distinctly "cult-y" vibe for me. 

I joined in with the hymns, but remained silent during the prayers and did not join in when promising to raise the child in Jesus' path. I take promises very seriously, so I won't make one that I can't keep!

I was surprised, because the family are not religious at all. In fact, before the baptism, they hadn't set foot in a church for years. I didn't think the service would be quite so heavy. I was told afterwards that it's a very liberal church, too, and not strict at all. Apparently the service was the typical baptism order of service. If that was a liberal Catholic church, there's no chance I'm going to a strict one! 

banana468

BlondeBride2016 said:

holyguacamole79 said:

BlondeBride2016 said:

Maybe just ask the bride if it's required? Then you can make an informed decisions minus so much speculation. If it's stressing you out, it's easily resolved!

You know your comfort level. I attended a Catholic baptism of a relative recently, and I dutifully said all the right things at the right times, and shook hands etc... but I left with a nasty taste in my mouth.

So for me, personally, I will not attend any more Catholic baptism services. We have one coming up, which we have respectfully declined, and will instead celebrate with the family at their "after party". This caused no offence whatsoever. It's possible to stand by your own principles while still maintaining positive relationships and celebrating with loved ones!

I'm curious. ...we've was so bad about a baptism?

Oh, it was just horrible! I should preface this by saying I respect other's rights to have their own beliefs and do what they like etc...  but I felt very uncomfortable during the service. 

I was under the impression that a baptism was a nice, love-filled family occasion, celebrating the child. But in actuality, there was so much talk of the devil, sin and hell, that I found it quite scary. The entire thing seemed to be about protecting the child from the devil, as though it was a very real threat that the child could somehow be "taken" by the devil! From my non-Catholic background, I found it shocking. Combined with all the sitting and standing and shaking hands, it had a distinctly "cult-y" vibe for me. 

I joined in with the hymns, but remained silent during the prayers and did not join in when promising to raise the child in Jesus' path. I take promises very seriously, so I won't make one that I can't keep!

I was surprised, because the family are not religious at all. In fact, before the baptism, they hadn't set foot in a church for years. I didn't think the service would be quite so heavy. I was told afterwards that it's a very liberal church, too, and not strict at all. Apparently the service was the typical baptism order of service. If that was a liberal Catholic church, there's no chance I'm going to a strict one! 

Are you familiar with why Catholics Baptize?? You're more than entitled to your opinion but you know it isn't about dressing up a baby in white right?

ETA, have you seen The Godfather?

redoryx

BlondeBride2016 said:

holyguacamole79 said:

Maybe just ask the bride if it's required? Then you can make an informed decisions minus so much speculation. If it's stressing you out, it's easily resolved! You know your comfort level. I attended a Catholic baptism of a relative recently, and I dutifully said all the right things at the right times, and shook hands etc... but I left with a nasty taste in my mouth. So for me, personally, I will not attend any more Catholic baptism services. We have one coming up, which we have respectfully declined, and will instead celebrate with the family at their "after party". This caused no offence whatsoever. It's possible to stand by your own principles while still maintaining positive relationships and celebrating with loved ones!

I'm curious. ...we've was so bad about a baptism?

Oh, it was just horrible! I should preface this by saying I respect other's rights to have their own beliefs and do what they like etc...  but I felt very uncomfortable during the service. 

I was under the impression that a baptism was a nice, love-filled family occasion, celebrating the child. But in actuality, there was so much talk of the devil, sin and hell, that I found it quite scary. The entire thing seemed to be about protecting the child from the devil, as though it was a very real threat that the child could somehow be "taken" by the devil! From my non-Catholic background, I found it shocking. Combined with all the sitting and standing and shaking hands, it had a distinctly "cult-y" vibe for me. 

I joined in with the hymns, but remained silent during the prayers and did not join in when promising to raise the child in Jesus' path. I take promises very seriously, so I won't make one that I can't keep!

I was surprised, because the family are not religious at all. In fact, before the baptism, they hadn't set foot in a church for years. I didn't think the service would be quite so heavy. I was told afterwards that it's a very liberal church, too, and not strict at all. Apparently the service was the typical baptism order of service. If that was a liberal Catholic church, there's no chance I'm going to a strict one! 

Out of curiosity, what did you think was the point of baptizing a child? 

Edit to add: You also realize that for them, this actually IS a real concern, yes? I say this as atheist, raised Lutheran with lots of Catholic friends and family -- I may not believe it myself, but, yes, they do believe the Devil is a very real threat. 

YogaSandy

BlondeBride2016 said:

holyguacamole79 said:

BlondeBride2016 said:

Maybe just ask the bride if it's required? Then you can make an informed decisions minus so much speculation. If it's stressing you out, it's easily resolved!

You know your comfort level. I attended a Catholic baptism of a relative recently, and I dutifully said all the right things at the right times, and shook hands etc... but I left with a nasty taste in my mouth.

So for me, personally, I will not attend any more Catholic baptism services. We have one coming up, which we have respectfully declined, and will instead celebrate with the family at their "after party". This caused no offence whatsoever. It's possible to stand by your own principles while still maintaining positive relationships and celebrating with loved ones!

I'm curious. ...we've was so bad about a baptism?

Oh, it was just horrible! I should preface this by saying I respect other's rights to have their own beliefs and do what they like etc...  but I felt very uncomfortable during the service. 

I was under the impression that a baptism was a nice, love-filled family occasion, celebrating the child. But in actuality, there was so much talk of the devil, sin and hell, that I found it quite scary. The entire thing seemed to be about protecting the child from the devil, as though it was a very real threat that the child could somehow be "taken" by the devil! From my non-Catholic background, I found it shocking. Combined with all the sitting and standing and shaking hands, it had a distinctly "cult-y" vibe for me. 

I joined in with the hymns, but remained silent during the prayers and did not join in when promising to raise the child in Jesus' path. I take promises very seriously, so I won't make one that I can't keep!

I was surprised, because the family are not religious at all. In fact, before the baptism, they hadn't set foot in a church for years. I didn't think the service would be quite so heavy. I was told afterwards that it's a very liberal church, too, and not strict at all. Apparently the service was the typical baptism order of service. If that was a liberal Catholic church, there's no chance I'm going to a strict one! 
---------------------- boxes? ----------
DS's baptism (Lutheran though) wasn't about the devil. Mostly just the light of Jesus. I honestly don't think the devil
Was mentioned once - unless it was while I was dealing with the diaper blow out . I have been to Catholic baptisms and don't recall anything like that, because that would have stuck out in my mind. However, the last one I attended was ten years ago.

STARMOON44

banana468 said:

BlondeBride2016 said:

holyguacamole79 said:

BlondeBride2016 said:

Maybe just ask the bride if it's required? Then you can make an informed decisions minus so much speculation. If it's stressing you out, it's easily resolved!

You know your comfort level. I attended a Catholic baptism of a relative recently, and I dutifully said all the right things at the right times, and shook hands etc... but I left with a nasty taste in my mouth.

So for me, personally, I will not attend any more Catholic baptism services. We have one coming up, which we have respectfully declined, and will instead celebrate with the family at their "after party". This caused no offence whatsoever. It's possible to stand by your own principles while still maintaining positive relationships and celebrating with loved ones!

I'm curious. ...we've was so bad about a baptism?

Oh, it was just horrible! I should preface this by saying I respect other's rights to have their own beliefs and do what they like etc...  but I felt very uncomfortable during the service. 

I was under the impression that a baptism was a nice, love-filled family occasion, celebrating the child. But in actuality, there was so much talk of the devil, sin and hell, that I found it quite scary. The entire thing seemed to be about protecting the child from the devil, as though it was a very real threat that the child could somehow be "taken" by the devil! From my non-Catholic background, I found it shocking. Combined with all the sitting and standing and shaking hands, it had a distinctly "cult-y" vibe for me. 

I joined in with the hymns, but remained silent during the prayers and did not join in when promising to raise the child in Jesus' path. I take promises very seriously, so I won't make one that I can't keep!

I was surprised, because the family are not religious at all. In fact, before the baptism, they hadn't set foot in a church for years. I didn't think the service would be quite so heavy. I was told afterwards that it's a very liberal church, too, and not strict at all. Apparently the service was the typical baptism order of service. If that was a liberal Catholic church, there's no chance I'm going to a strict one! 

Are you familiar with why Catholics Baptize?? You're more than entitled to your opinion but you know it isn't about dressing up a baby in white right?

ETA, have you seen The Godfather?

She just explained her unde

redoryx said:

BlondeBride2016 said:

holyguacamole79 said:

Maybe just ask the bride if it's required? Then you can make an informed decisions minus so much speculation. If it's stressing you out, it's easily resolved!

You know your comfort level. I attended a Catholic baptism of a relative recently, and I dutifully said all the right things at the right times, and shook hands etc... but I left with a nasty taste in my mouth.

So for me, personally, I will not attend any more Catholic baptism services. We have one coming up, which we have respectfully declined, and will instead celebrate with the family at their "after party". This caused no offence whatsoever. It's possible to stand by your own principles while still maintaining positive relationships and celebrating with loved ones!

I'm curious. ...we've was so bad about a baptism?

Oh, it was just horrible! I should preface this by saying I respect other's rights to have their own beliefs and do what they like etc...  but I felt very uncomfortable during the service. 

I was under the impression that a baptism was a nice, love-filled family occasion, celebrating the child. But in actuality, there was so much talk of the devil, sin and hell, that I found it quite scary. The entire thing seemed to be about protecting the child from the devil, as though it was a very real threat that the child could somehow be "taken" by the devil! From my non-Catholic background, I found it shocking. Combined with all the sitting and standing and shaking hands, it had a distinctly "cult-y" vibe for me. 

I joined in with the hymns, but remained silent during the prayers and did not join in when promising to raise the child in Jesus' path. I take promises very seriously, so I won't make one that I can't keep!

I was surprised, because the family are not religious at all. In fact, before the baptism, they hadn't set foot in a church for years. I didn't think the service would be quite so heavy. I was told afterwards that it's a very liberal church, too, and not strict at all. Apparently the service was the typical baptism order of service. If that was a liberal Catholic church, there's no chance I'm going to a strict one! 

Out of curiosity, what did you think was the point of baptizing a child? 

Edit to add: You also realize that for them, this actually IS a real concern, yes? I say this as atheist, raised Lutheran with lots of Catholic friends and family -- I may not believe it myself, but, yes, they do believe the Devil is a very real threat. 


Obviously she didn't before and does now? I think this seems like piling on. She behaved perfectly appropriately, and only went into her feeling because she was specifically asked, and now she's getting condescending and unnecessary feedback on that.

It's okay to not like a church service! I would be surprised to attend a baptism with talk of the devil and hell. Our services always talk about Christ's love and the pledge from the parents to bring the child up in that love. Its completely reasonable to be surprised and taken aback, and react to that by behaving politely in the moment and deciding not to put yourself in that position in the future.

Like if I inadvertently attended a church service that was all about the gays going to hell, I'd make sure not to go there anymore. I wouldn't really need it explained to me that you know people actually really do believe this right and they have reasons. A) obviously I just learned that, and I don't care, it's not for me and I'm not going back.

mollybarker11

I can easily see how Catholic services seem "cult-y" and of course you are right to decline attending if you want! But I wanted to offer a different perspective:

I'm from a place where I've never heard of a distinction between liberal and conservative parishes, which is to say they're all conservative. The baptism of my godson took place in the same parish that hosted a youth group which taught me all about how no one wants to eat (marry) a cookie (woman) that's been touched ("touched") by multiple people, blah blah blah. That said the baptism was a very bright, happy, casual service. No sitting/standing/shaking, we all just stood around the font at the back of the church and the priest cracked jokes. We vowed to renounce Satan but there wasn't a sermon on hell or anything.

Again, not trying to convince anyone to start going to baptisms, just letting you know that, like Jewish weddings, they're all different and have different tones and levels of... intensity lol #NotAllBaptisms

MegEn1

mollybarker11 said:

I can easily see how Catholic services seem "cult-y" and of course you are right to decline attending if you want! But I wanted to offer a different perspective:

I'm from a place where I've never heard of a distinction between liberal and conservative parishes, which is to say they're all conservative. The baptism of my godson took place in the same parish that hosted a youth group which taught me all about how no one wants to eat (marry) a cookie (woman) that's been touched ("touched") by multiple people, blah blah blah. That said the baptism was a very bright, happy, casual service. No sitting/standing/shaking, we all just stood around the font at the back of the church and the priest cracked jokes. We vowed to renounce Satan but there wasn't a sermon on hell or anything.

Again, not trying to convince anyone to start going to baptisms, just letting you know that, like Jewish weddings, they're all different and have different tones and levels of... intensity lol #NotAllBaptisms

Yeah my friend's child was baptized last month and the priest took a sprig of something and was dancing around the church with the accolades(?) in a conga line blessing everyone with holy water while everyone else was singing and clapping. Pretty positive event. Catholic or not, it all depends on the church (or temple or mosque I assume) and the congregation. 

banana468

STARMOON44 said:

holyguacamole79 said:

Maybe just ask the bride if it's required? Then you can make an informed decisions minus so much speculation. If it's stressing you out, it's easily resolved! You know your comfort level. I attended a Catholic baptism of a relative recently, and I dutifully said all the right things at the right times, and shook hands etc... but I left with a nasty taste in my mouth. So for me, personally, I will not attend any more Catholic baptism services. We have one coming up, which we have respectfully declined, and will instead celebrate with the family at their "after party". This caused no offence whatsoever. It's possible to stand by your own principles while still maintaining positive relationships and celebrating with loved ones!

I'm curious. ...we've was so bad about a baptism?

Oh, it was just horrible! I should preface this by saying I respect other's rights to have their own beliefs and do what they like etc...  but I felt very uncomfortable during the service. 

I was under the impression that a baptism was a nice, love-filled family occasion, celebrating the child. But in actuality, there was so much talk of the devil, sin and hell, that I found it quite scary. The entire thing seemed to be about protecting the child from the devil, as though it was a very real threat that the child could somehow be "taken" by the devil! From my non-Catholic background, I found it shocking. Combined with all the sitting and standing and shaking hands, it had a distinctly "cult-y" vibe for me. 

I joined in with the hymns, but remained silent during the prayers and did not join in when promising to raise the child in Jesus' path. I take promises very seriously, so I won't make one that I can't keep!

I was surprised, because the family are not religious at all. In fact, before the baptism, they hadn't set foot in a church for years. I didn't think the service would be quite so heavy. I was told afterwards that it's a very liberal church, too, and not strict at all. Apparently the service was the typical baptism order of service. If that was a liberal Catholic church, there's no chance I'm going to a strict one! 

Are you familiar with why Catholics Baptize?? You're more than entitled to your opinion but you know it isn't about dressing up a baby in white right? ETA, have you seen The Godfather?

She just explained her unde

BlondeBride2016 said:

holyguacamole79 said:

Maybe just ask the bride if it's required? Then you can make an informed decisions minus so much speculation. If it's stressing you out, it's easily resolved! You know your comfort level. I attended a Catholic baptism of a relative recently, and I dutifully said all the right things at the right times, and shook hands etc... but I left with a nasty taste in my mouth. So for me, personally, I will not attend any more Catholic baptism services. We have one coming up, which we have respectfully declined, and will instead celebrate with the family at their "after party". This caused no offence whatsoever. It's possible to stand by your own principles while still maintaining positive relationships and celebrating with loved ones!

I'm curious. ...we've was so bad about a baptism?

Oh, it was just horrible! I should preface this by saying I respect other's rights to have their own beliefs and do what they like etc...  but I felt very uncomfortable during the service. 

I was under the impression that a baptism was a nice, love-filled family occasion, celebrating the child. But in actuality, there was so much talk of the devil, sin and hell, that I found it quite scary. The entire thing seemed to be about protecting the child from the devil, as though it was a very real threat that the child could somehow be "taken" by the devil! From my non-Catholic background, I found it shocking. Combined with all the sitting and standing and shaking hands, it had a distinctly "cult-y" vibe for me. 

I joined in with the hymns, but remained silent during the prayers and did not join in when promising to raise the child in Jesus' path. I take promises very seriously, so I won't make one that I can't keep!

I was surprised, because the family are not religious at all. In fact, before the baptism, they hadn't set foot in a church for years. I didn't think the service would be quite so heavy. I was told afterwards that it's a very liberal church, too, and not strict at all. Apparently the service was the typical baptism order of service. If that was a liberal Catholic church, there's no chance I'm going to a strict one! 

Out of curiosity, what did you think was the point of baptizing a child? 

Edit to add: You also realize that for them, this actually IS a real concern, yes? I say this as atheist, raised Lutheran with lots of Catholic friends and family -- I may not believe it myself, but, yes, they do believe the Devil is a very real threat. 

Obviously she didn't before and does now? I think this seems like piling on. She behaved perfectly appropriately, and only went into her feeling because she was specifically asked, and now she's getting condescending and unnecessary feedback on that. It's okay to not like a church service! I would be surprised to attend a baptism with talk of the devil and hell. Our services always talk about Christ's love and the pledge from the parents to bring the child up in that love. Its completely reasonable to be surprised and taken aback, and react to that by behaving politely in the moment and deciding not to put yourself in that position in the future. Like if I inadvertently attended a church service that was all about the gays going to hell, I'd make sure not to go there anymore. I wouldn't really need it explained to me that you know people actually really do believe this right and they have reasons. A) obviously I just learned that, and I don't care, it's not for me and I'm not going back.

I get the explanation.   I think I probed a bit more because I'm curious about her understanding of the reason that Catholics Baptize.   It isn't comparable to attending a service that's all about gays going to hell in that there is no service or Sacrament with that as its motive.  There IS however the desire to wash away Original Sin that occurs with birth.   FWIW, we waited 5 mo to Baptize our first and some of my husband's family members were quite concerned that the Devil was going to get his hands on her.   

However there IS a distinct point of Baptism.   I referenced The Godfather because in any Catholic Church, the words that Michael Corleone states as he answers the priest are the same words that parents and Godparents recite at any Baptism.  It's rather ironic in the movie given the murders occurring as he confirms his faith (sorry if I just spoiled this for anyone!). 

While you may find Catholic churches that are more relaxed with some aspects like attire, the doctrine isn't going to change.   So the wording used for a Baptism in a parish where jeans are OK is the same in a parish where more women may prefer to cover their heads.

And if you're not cool with that, I completely understand.  Faith is personal and each person has his/her own belief system.    

holyguacamole79

For anyone who's interested, here's the actual text of what goes on at a baptism (this site includes both English and Latin).  

Sometimes a baptism is during a regular Sunday Mass, and sometimes it's done separately.  From what @BlondeBride2016 said regarding the sitting / standing / kneeling, it sounds like that baptism was during a regular Mass.  The times when I've gone to a baptism where it was after the Mass, it wasn't as involved as how BlondeBride notes.

And I agree with what @banana468 said ... the words of the rite are consistent regardless of the parish or the clergy.  FWIW, all the baptisms I've attended have been joyous.  There may not have been dancing and happy clapping, but I find it beautiful.

Also, if you attend a Confirmation or an Easter Mass, you will likely witness the renewal of the baptismal vows, which includes some of the wording about Satan & sin.  Here's that text.

banana468

holyguacamole79 said:

For anyone who's interested, here's the actual text of what goes on at a baptism (this site includes both English and Latin).  

Sometimes a baptism is during a regular Sunday Mass, and sometimes it's done separately.  From what @BlondeBride2016 said regarding the sitting / standing / kneeling, it sounds like that baptism was during a regular Mass.  The times when I've gone to a baptism where it was after the Mass, it wasn't as involved as how BlondeBride notes.

And I agree with what @banana468 said ... the words of the rite are consistent regardless of the parish or the clergy.  FWIW, all the baptisms I've attended have been joyous.  There may not have been dancing and happy clapping, but I find it beautiful.

Also, if you attend a Confirmation or an Easter Mass, you will likely witness the renewal of the baptismal vows, which includes some of the wording about Satan & sin.  Here's that text.

The clip of the movie could have worked too. ;-)

It's now stuck in my head!

LD1970

Most offsite

STARMOON44 said:

LD1970 said:

BlondeBride2016 said:

Maybe just ask the bride if it's required? Then you can make an informed decisions minus so much speculation. If it's stressing you out, it's easily resolved!

You know your comfort level. I attended a Catholic baptism of a relative recently, and I dutifully said all the right things at the right times, and shook hands etc... but I left with a nasty taste in my mouth.

So for me, personally, I will not attend any more Catholic baptism services. We have one coming up, which we have respectfully declined, and will instead celebrate with the family at their "after party". This caused no offence whatsoever. It's possible to stand by your own principles while still maintaining positive relationships and celebrating with loved ones!

You know you can go and not say the prayers if it's not your religion, right? I'm sure they'd prefer you attend and be respectfully silent, rather than eecire words you don't believe and make a farce of the event.

I think that's more than a bit harsh. There are plenty of non-believers in the pews every week- it doesn't make a farce of the service. It sounds like BlondeBride thought she might be comfortable with the service, gave it a try, didn't like it, and will do differently next time. That certainly doesn't make the baptism service a farce in my book.

Sorry, that's not what I meant. And FTR, "eecire" (ridiculous phone typo) should have read "recite," if that wasn't clear.

Anyway, I didn't mean the service would be a farce or that the presence of non-believers would make the service a farce. I should hope not; I've attended my share of communions, confirmations, Christian weddings of various denominations, and Christian funerals of various denominations!

I meant that if, for instance, I (or any nonbeliever) actually recites prayers regarding Jesus or Christianity it becomes a farce. If I don't believe it, I shouldn't say it just to say it. It sounded to me like the poster who originally said the baptism made her uncomfortable was made so because she actually was reciting sentiments in which she didn't believe. It seems from additional comments that it was more than that, so my point is kind of moot.

LD1970

Jen4948 said:

LD1970 said:

Jen4948 said:

huskypuppy14 said:

Viczaesar said:

mrsdowster said:

STARMOON44 said:

LD1970 said:

mrsdowster, Kneeling during prayer is forbidden in Judaism.  Don't expect it from us or you'll be disappointed.  You'd also be wrong to take it as disrespect.

I used my husband as an example of someone who has been to events in synagogues with me.  (NOT "temple," as that's offensive to religious Jews - since I know you're all looking to refrain from offending - because it trivializes The Temple in Jerusalem, which was destroyed.  I was raised and taught to say only shul or synagogue, never temple.)

Over the years, I have belonged to both conservative and orthodox synagogues.  Events we've attended have been in conservative and reform synagogues.  There is NOTHING rude about saying "No, thank you," and as stated by the correct people above, covering one's head in a reform and most conservative synagogues is a CUSTOM, not a RULE.  I never said my husband got huffy, defensive, rude, or stormed out.  I said that kippahs have been OFFERED to, not FOISTED upon him, either by being in a basket at the entrance or by someone handing them out.  He's either simply not taken one from the basket or politely said, "No, thank you" to the person offering.  There was no confrontation or issue.  The basket wasn't struck by lightning (and neither was my husband), and the human said, "OK," and moved on to the next guest.  Done and done.

It should be noted that as a married woman, I'm supposed to, under Jewish law, keep my head covered *at all times*.  Not just in synagogue, but definitely in synagogue.  I don't, and I don't cover my head for events in synagogue either.  Interestingly, no one's ever approached me trying to offer me one of those lace bits they hand out, or looked at me strangely for not covering my head.  I didn't even realize the omission until just now.  At any rate, these are my stomping grounds, my "space," if you will, and I'm telling you myself it's not a rule unless you're in an orthodox shul, and it's not rude.

Now, were we invited to an orthodox shul for an event, I'd warn H about the need to wear a kippah and have to make a choice on whether I would go and cover my head as well.  I wouldn't expect to go to an orthodox event and not cover.
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@LD1970  Thanks for clarifying.

I really don't care if I offended anyone or not or if I'm wrong. Maybe my response was a little too long but basically I just wanted to let the OP know that, as other PP's have stated the "when in Rome" attitude...just take the yarmulke when offered in the synagogue.

"I really don't care if I'm wrong" is such an interesting viewpoint.

oh Boy, let the nit-picking begin. I guess that is what i get for typing a long response to the OP.

As for my "I really don't care" bit, this is in response to LD's bolded quote above.  I'm not trying to be politically correct here...but if you noticed, LD clarified and I corrected.

have a great weekend.

Why not?  'I don't care if I offended anyone and I don't care if I'm wrong' is a shitty and bizarre attitude to have. 

Especially because she is wrong. If she had read the previous 3 pages, she would have seen multiple posts (including mine) that stated why they don't kneel. And my grandmother and great grandmother who are/were practicing Catholics didn't kneel either because physically they could not! 
I think most if not all people agreed it was respectful to sit and stand with everyone else.

I asked my husband (who is a reform Jew). He said it is respectful to wear a yamulke in synagogue, but at a Jewish wedding not in a synagogue he said it didn't matter if non Jews wore it or not.  The op said this wedding is not in a synagogue, so if her husband really doesn't want to wear one, than don't.




Something the OP never said is if the sponsoring synagogue is Reform.

If the sponsoring synagogue is Orthodox, then even if the ceremony isn't taking place in the building, all males, regardless of their religious affiliation, need to have their heads covered.  No exceptions.

If it's Conservative, then congregations who are stricter about this are going to also require all males to cover their heads, regardless of their religious affiliation.

Neither Orthodox nor stricter Conservative congregations are going to be impressed by what Reform rabbis have to say or don't about whether yarmulkes are necessary-or, for that matter, many other aspects of Judaism.

So unless the ceremony is being sponsored by a Reform rabbi and congregation, don't assume that just because they don't require males to cover their heads that your husband can politely expect not to cover his.  It depends on the congregation's rules.

As some of us have been saying.


So, OP, if they're going to bring yarmulkes around at the wedding you and your husband are invited to, that suggests to me that at this wedding Reform standards don't apply because they want all men to cover their heads. In which case your husband needs to wear a hat of his own, accept the yarmulke and wear it, or not attend. Saying "no thanks" or accepting a yarmulke and not wearing it are not polite options here.

YES THEY ARE. OFFERING = \ = ORDERING.

They wouldn't "offer" if it weren't required.

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Don't be ridiculous. A wedding invitation is an "offer" to attend the wedding. Your attendance isn't REQUIRED. Many, many things in life are offered. They are not required.