Does this make my wedding a PPD?

[Deleted User]

Long story short, we're both catholic but have decided to have a non-religious ceremony outside with a brunch reception to follow.  We did this for a few reasons, our guests are mostly OOT and we didn't want them to spend hours in a car or plane the day before to then have to turn around and get up earlier for an hour long religious ceremony.  Not everyone attending will be catholic, in fact several are very vocal about hating the church.  The timing of what we are planning and the venues were selected to be mindful of our guests and what we personally like.

On the flip side of this, we would like to have our marriage recognized by the church.  The choice they've given us is to have a private ceremony with two witnesses the day before the outdoor ceremony.  Then we'll be cool catholic wise and have our outdoor ceremony.  But I wonder if this does turn the wedding we've been planning into a pretty princess day, and I worry about guests feeling like we are being dishonest.  I'm waiting to get confirmation that the private ceremony can in fact just be the vows, so we can have the legal part done the following day when everyone is there. Of course we would be very open and honest about what we are  doing.  

poodledoodleooo

To me, it feels a bit like PPD.

I'm not Catholic, and I'd rather sit through an hour-long Catholic ceremony that was your actual, legally binding, real wedding ceremony than witness the "repeat" the next day.

ETA, I didn't realize your second ceremony would be the legally binding one - if that's the case, it wouldn't bother me as much.

Personally, I like seeing people get married within their own culture/religion, and if someone plans to practice Catholicism throughout your marriage, it would make more sense to me that they'd want to include their loved ones within that ceremony (even if they don't necessarily practice themselves) but it sounds like your family might feel a little differently.

banana468

JustcallmeA said:

Long story short, we're both catholic but have decided to have a non-religious ceremony outside with a brunch reception to follow.  We did this for a few reasons, our guests are mostly OOT and we didn't want them to spend hours in a car or plane the day before to then have to turn around and get up earlier for an hour long religious ceremony.  Not everyone attending will be catholic, in fact several are very vocal about hating the church.  The timing of what we are planning and the venues were selected to be mindful of our guests and what we personally like.

On the flip side of this, we would like to have our marriage recognized by the church.  The choice they've given us is to have a private ceremony with two witnesses the day before the outdoor ceremony.  Then we'll be cool catholic wise and have our outdoor ceremony.  But I wonder if this does turn the wedding we've been planning into a pretty princess day, and I worry about guests feeling like we are being dishonest.  I'm waiting to get confirmation that the private ceremony can in fact just be the vows, so we can have the legal part done the following day when everyone is there. Of course we would be very open and honest about what we are  doing.  

It sounds very PPD to me.   I don't know about your parish but mine wouldn't allow me to exchange vows without the license.   So I was married legally at the same time.   A convalidation can happen but those are after your legal ceremony.

Quite frankly,  I'd just get married in the church and would tell the people who don't like it too bad.   It wouldn't stop me in my faith and getting married in my faith and receiving the Sacrament was far more important than anyone who didn't want to sit and watch it. 

I would re-think your plans if possible. 

[Deleted User]

Fair enough, the two ceremony thing didn't sit right with me.  Our parish has been all over the place with information which has been frustrating    

We'll drop the church part and have the one legal ceremony outside.  We are moving shortly have the wedding, once settled we can look into convalidation and if that's something that would be an option for us.

aurianna

banana468 said:

It sounds very PPD to me.   I don't know about your parish but mine wouldn't allow me to exchange vows without the license.   So I was married legally at the same time.   A convalidation can happen but those are after your legal ceremony.

Quite frankly,  I'd just get married in the church and would tell the people who don't like it too bad.   It wouldn't stop me in my faith and getting married in my faith and receiving the Sacrament was far more important than anyone who didn't want to sit and watch it. 

I would re-think your plans if possible. 

This.

Seriously, while the reception is about thank your guests for coming and meeting and greeting with them and sharing your day, the ceremony is very much about you and your future husband. If a Catholic sanctioned marriage is important to you two, have a Catholic wedding. Anyone who grouses to you about hating the church in relation to your wedding is hella rude.

...Now of course this is also contingent on no gaps between the ceremony and reception. If you can only do a morning wedding mass, looks like it's a brunch reception.

I'd be very surprised if you'd find a priest willing to do a Catholic wedding without its being legal (but who knows). You could also try to get a convalidation after... but that can be tricky and will raise red flags with the priest when they ask why you weren't married in the church initially and the answer is "we didn't want our guests to have to wake up early."

photokitty

Yes, it would make the wedding you are planning a ppd. If I wanted a my marriage to be valid in the eyes of the Catholic church, then I would work to have a convalidation preappoved to be done after my wedding, or just have a traditional Catholic wedding in the church.

I'm assuming bc you said you didn't eat your guests to get up earlier, that you aren't having the Catholic wedding bc it would create a gap and you want an outdoor wedding.

You need to decide if your faith is more important than your vision. I get it. I opted not to be married in the church, it was a tough decision, but at there of the day it had nothing to do with my vision, it was all about my faith and personal choice. Due to my circumstances my priests offered a convalidation, but I have not gone through with one at this point.

geebee908

Convalidations aren't handed out like candy by the Church; your superficial reason will not fly. If it's important to have your wedding recognized, you do it right the first time.

banana468

JustcallmeA said:

Fair enough, the two ceremony thing didn't sit right with me.  Our parish has been all over the place with information which has been frustrating    

We'll drop the church part and have the one legal ceremony outside.  We are moving shortly have the wedding, once settled we can look into convalidation and if that's something that would be an option for us.

Just keep in mind that if you are serious about your faith then by getting married outside you're no longer a Catholic in good standing.   It makes you ineligible to receive any Sacarements including the Eucharist and also means that you can't serve as a Godparent or a sponsor for Confirmation / RCIA.   

PamBeesly524

I'm not religious and am not a big fan of organized religion, but I've never been angry or complained about having to go to any of the Catholic religions I've attended. You can feel that religion isn't right for you but still be respectful of other people's beliefs and choices. 

OliveOilsMom

JustcallmeA said:

Fair enough, the two ceremony thing didn't sit right with me.  Our parish has been all over the place with information which has been frustrating    

We'll drop the church part and have the one legal ceremony outside.  We are moving shortly have the wedding, once settled we can look into convalidation and if that's something that would be an option for us.

But why drop the Church part?  That is the important part in this.  As a Catholic you will be out of good standing and will be unable to take Communion.  A Convalidation is not a slam dunk option.  Your current parish seems to be a little more lax, but where are you moving to?  What if they are much more conservative and say no to the Convalidation?

I know many people who do not like church, whether Catholic or not.  They still attend weddings and funerals in them.  A wedding is about the two of you, if your guest doesn't want to attend because they do not want to sit through the hour long mass, that is there problem - not yours.

If I were you, I would keep the morning ceremony at Church and have the brunch right afterwards.

holyguacamole79

JustcallmeA said:

Fair enough, the two ceremony thing didn't sit right with me.  Our parish has been all over the place with information which has been frustrating    

We'll drop the church part and have the one legal ceremony outside.  We are moving shortly have the wedding, once settled we can look into convalidation and if that's something that would be an option for us.

Depending on the church, there may be some difficulties getting a convalidation.  Convalidations are usually for couples who have already been civilly married and later have a change of heart and want to be in full communion with the Church.  I don't think many priests / deacons will be too thrilled with the idea of having the wedding of your vision followed by "making things right" with the church.

Also, I agree with the others that it will be quite difficult (I think it may be impossible, actually) to have a Catholic ceremony without the legal aspect.

If your faith is important to you, I suggest having the Catholic service.  If you have family / friends who can't respect your faith, then that's their problem.

holyguacamole79

JustcallmeA said:

Fair enough, the two ceremony thing didn't sit right with me.  Our parish has been all over the place with information which has been frustrating    

We'll drop the church part and have the one legal ceremony outside.  We are moving shortly have the wedding, once settled we can look into convalidation and if that's something that would be an option for us.

Depending on the church, there may be some difficulties getting a convalidation.  Convalidations are usually for couples who have already been civilly married and later have a change of heart and want to be in full communion with the Church.  I don't think many priests / deacons will be too thrilled with the idea of having the wedding of your vision followed by "making things right" with the church.

Also, I agree with the others that it will be quite difficult (I think it may be impossible, actually) to have a Catholic ceremony without the legal aspect.

If your faith is important to you, I suggest having the Catholic service.  If you have family / friends who can't respect your faith, then that's their problem. 

[Deleted User]

It wasn't my intention to make it sound like I thought convalidation was an easy and carefree thing that is granted to anyone.  It's good to have the confirmation about the legal part, my parish office and priest said it could just be the vows, that didn't sound right at all.  

I'm well aware that we would not be in good standing.  It's upsetting to think about.  But for several reasons, beyond what I talked about in my OP, it seems like something we are going to have to make peace with.  At least now I won't be rude to anyone, so there's that. Wedding planning trying to make everyone happy really sucks But thank you for the comments and opinions.

lnixon8

It's wrong to have the "if they don't like it, they don't have to come" attitude towards guests, when the "it" is cash bar, gaps, not enough seats etc. But if they are so vocal about hating church that they don't want to see your ceremony well then...

(This coming from a catholic bride who did not have a full mass and who's start to finish ceremony was less than 20 minutes.)

bleve0821

JustcallmeA said:

It wasn't my intention to make it sound like I thought convalidation was an easy and carefree thing that is granted to anyone.  It's good to have the confirmation about the legal part, my parish office and priest said it could just be the vows, that didn't sound right at all.  

I'm well aware that we would not be in good standing.  It's upsetting to think about.  But for several reasons, beyond what I talked about in my OP, it seems like something we are going to have to make peace with.  At least now I won't be rude to anyone, so there's that. Wedding planning really sucks But thank you for the comments and opinions.

Why?  Why do you have to make peace with it?  If your religion is an important part of your life, why would you not embrace that part of who you are, as individuals and as a couple, and have your ceremony in a church?  IMO, if the what part of your wedding upsets you (as it sounds here like getting married outside of the church will do), why go through with it (the alternate ceremony, not the getting married to your FI part)?

I'm asking this, not to be judgmental or accusatory, but because I genuinely don't understand.  I do realize you've left details out of the rationale you've provided here, but if not being in good standing with your church is something that you do find upsetting, I would think that that alone would be a good enough reason to get married in a church, regardless of the opinions of your guests.  If they love you, they will be there.  The location/time of the ceremony and reception is not so important as to cause this kind of lasting impact.

holyguacamole79

JustcallmeA said:

It wasn't my intention to make it sound like I thought convalidation was an easy and carefree thing that is granted to anyone.  It's good to have the confirmation about the legal part, my parish office and priest said it could just be the vows, that didn't sound right at all.  

I'm well aware that we would not be in good standing.  It's upsetting to think about.  But for several reasons, beyond what I talked about in my OP, it seems like something we are going to have to make peace with.  At least now I won't be rude to anyone, so there's that. Wedding planning trying to make everyone happy really sucks But thank you for the comments and opinions.

You also realize this means that you would not be able to receive the Eucharist, right?  

Which is more upsetting:  not being able to receive the Eucharist or offending some people who have a beef with your church?

Regarding the second bolded ..... the decision of whether or not to have a wedding in your church is not a decision for anyone but you and your FI.  Period.  End of story.  If people are upset by that, then that's their problem.

short+sassy

Not being Catholic myself, it's been interesting to read about the usual stance in regards to co-validation.

Going off what the others have said, it certainly sounds like you all need to choose between your ceremony/reception preference and being a Catholic in good standing/having your marriage by the church (I apologize if I got this last bit wrong, that is the gist I am getting).

As for some of your guests speaking out against the church, as we always say, an invitation is not a summons.  If they don't like that it's in a church, too early, and/or includes a mass...than they just don't have to go.  Or can come for just the reception portion, which I personally usually side-eye, but would be more understanding about if their own personal beliefs are that strong against the church.  But not the "too early" part.  That still gets a side-eye from me, lol.

You all need to make the best decision for yourselves and potentially not having your marriage recognized and/or not being in good standing with your faith are certainly exceedingly good reasons to have the whole ceremony in the church.  IF that is your preference.

Quite frankly, there are certain policies the Catholic church has that I find really abhorrent, but it's not the majority of those beliefs.  However, my general dislike of Catholicism does not stop me from attending mass, on occasion, with friends or my grandparents.  It also isn't a factor in whether I'll attend a wedding or not.  Just like I'm welcome to my beliefs, if friends/family are Catholic and getting married in the church, I respect that also.  I could be wrong, but I think that is probably where the majority of people who aren't Catholic would fall.

Whatever you all decide, I hope you have an amazing wedding day.

[Deleted User]

Thank you for being supportive and kind.  Yes, we know that if we do this we won't be able to receive Eucharist. Maybe I sound too flippant in my previous posts.  That's not my intention.

If we decide to nix the civil outdoor ceremony and only have a church wedding we need to arrive at a place where we'll be okay with being cut off from important family members.  We're not ready to make a decision on what to do. As I mentioned our current parish is all over the place with information.  I also don't want to be rude to our guests attending by having two ceremonies, which is why I ended up here - to make sure the two ceremony thing wasn't a cool thing to do.

holyguacamole79

Im so sorry that family members are making this hard for you.  I know it would be a painful decision for me, too.  What does your FI say?

holyguacamole79

Also, I think this issue is mitch deeper than your wedding.  What will happen when you have a child who will be baptized?  Something these relatives need to realize is that by attending your wedding, they are supporting you and your marriage, not the Catholic church. 


(Sorry if I'm being pushy ... your situation makes me mad for you).

TrixieJess

JustcallmeA said:

Thank you for being supportive and kind.  Yes, we know that if we do this we won't be able to receive Eucharist. Maybe I sound too flippant in my previous posts.  That's not my intention.

If we decide to nix the civil outdoor ceremony and only have a church wedding we need to arrive at a place where we'll be okay with being cut off from important family members.  We're not ready to make a decision on what to do. As I mentioned our current parish is all over the place with information.  I also don't want to be rude to our guests attending by having two ceremonies, which is why I ended up here - to make sure the two ceremony thing wasn't a cool thing to do.

It also means that any children that you have wouldn't be able to be baptised. This is something that you would have to think about. Do you want any future children raised Catholic? This is usually the important reasoning for having a Catholic ceremony. 

TrixieJess

JustcallmeA said:

Thank you for being supportive and kind.  Yes, we know that if we do this we won't be able to receive Eucharist. Maybe I sound too flippant in my previous posts.  That's not my intention.

If we decide to nix the civil outdoor ceremony and only have a church wedding we need to arrive at a place where we'll be okay with being cut off from important family members.  We're not ready to make a decision on what to do. As I mentioned our current parish is all over the place with information.  I also don't want to be rude to our guests attending by having two ceremonies, which is why I ended up here - to make sure the two ceremony thing wasn't a cool thing to do.

It also means that any children that you have wouldn't be able to be baptised. This is something that you would have to think about. Do you want any future children raised Catholic? This is usually an important reasoning for having a Catholic ceremony. 

aurianna

JustcallmeA said:

Thank you for being supportive and kind.  Yes, we know that if we do this we won't be able to receive Eucharist. Maybe I sound too flippant in my previous posts.  That's not my intention.

If we decide to nix the civil outdoor ceremony and only have a church wedding we need to arrive at a place where we'll be okay with being cut off from important family members.  We're not ready to make a decision on what to do. As I mentioned our current parish is all over the place with information.  I also don't want to be rude to our guests attending by having two ceremonies, which is why I ended up here - to make sure the two ceremony thing wasn't a cool thing to do.

Do you honestly have family members that would cut off ties from you for getting married in the church you belong to so that you can keep good standing in your own faith???
I realize I don't have the details or fully understand the situation, but that really sounds beyond wrong to me and cause for family counseling or ditching these people outright.
A religion is an incredibly personal thing and incredibly important to many people.You should be able to practice that religion without fear of persecution from your own family.

Something just rings very, very wrong here. I'm sorry that you're in this kind of situation.

MrsMack10612

Let me preface by saying I am not Catholic, but I am in complete agreement with @holyguacamole79 .  My H is Catholic (and though not practicing, decided it was important to be married in the Church) and I was fine with it.  For reasons I won't go into, my mother is very anti-Catholic church, I was very concerned at what she would say about me being married in the Church.  She was fine with it and promised she wouldn't make a scene . 

It makes me very angry for you that you have important people in your lives that are making you this stressed and forcing you to make decisions you don't want to.  I realize the idea of cutting off or being cut off from important people is hard, but you don't need that kind of negativity and toxic influence your life. If your faith and being married/being in good standing in your church is that important, than you need to make the hard decisions.

Weddings & funerals bring out the drama in everyone, but it can also make you see someone's true colors.  

bleve0821

holyguacamole79 said:

Also, I think this issue is mitch deeper than your wedding.  What will happen when you have a child who will be baptized?  Something these relatives need to realize is that by attending your wedding, they are supporting you and your marriage, not the Catholic church. 


(Sorry if I'm being pushy ... your situation makes me mad for you).

Completely agree.

If a compromise to this end cannot be reached, would it be possible to VTC the ceremony so that the important family members would be able to watch it?  It is unclear to me if these family members are completely opposed to a religious ceremony, or just don't want you to have it in a church (and if I am misunderstanding completely, please forgive my confusion).  It's one more thing to worry about the day of, but if this is more about a "being in a place of worship" issue than an "I take offense to your religion," this could potentially be a workaround.

On the flip side, if it really is an "I take offense to your religion," I would be inclined to say, "It makes me sad that you don't support us or our views, but this is very, very important to us.  We will be very sad that you won't be there to support us on the day we get married, but the compromise (losing your standing with the church) is just too great of a sacrifice for us to make at this point."  That's just me.

I am very sorry your loved ones are putting you in this position.

[Deleted User]

I was using this thread to show him that the two ceremony thing is not a nice thing to do.  When this was brought up he thought it was the best of both worlds.  And it didn't help that kind family and friends said they wouldn't mind if we did something the night before privately for religious reasons.

We'll have to figure out what to do.  Maybe that means trying to work out things with the family members and let the chips fall if we have a church ceremony.  Or we go the other route, no catholic ceremony.

Edited to add: Honestly I am shocked that this was something that came up when we first starting working on wedding stuff.  Which is why we're not quite ready to walk away from the relationship right this second. I would feel bad so say that they're being a...I don't know..because this is their opinion. I don't want to do into more detail since this is the internet.

holyguacamole79

TrixieJess said:

JustcallmeA said:

Thank you for being supportive and kind.  Yes, we know that if we do this we won't be able to receive Eucharist. Maybe I sound too flippant in my previous posts.  That's not my intention.

If we decide to nix the civil outdoor ceremony and only have a church wedding we need to arrive at a place where we'll be okay with being cut off from important family members.  We're not ready to make a decision on what to do. As I mentioned our current parish is all over the place with information.  I also don't want to be rude to our guests attending by having two ceremonies, which is why I ended up here - to make sure the two ceremony thing wasn't a cool thing to do.

It also means that any children that you have wouldn't be able to be baptised. This is something that you would have to think about. Do you want any future children raised Catholic? This is usually an important reasoning for having a Catholic ceremony. 

This actually isn't true.  The parents would likely be strongly encouraged to have their marriage convalidated, but the church would not deny the child grace because of the parents marriage status.

holyguacamole79

Also,  OP..... use the quote button so we know whom you're responding to 

[Deleted User]

holyguacamole79 said:

Also,  OP..... use the quote button so we know whom you're responding to 

Opps, I'm sorry!  I'll see if I can go back and fix....

OurWildKingdom

I'm an atheist and think your potential guests are way out of line. My spiritual choices are just that - mine. I would never cut ties with someone because they chose to have their wedding in a house of worship. I actually rather enjoy the ritual and find it beautiful. 

If your faith is important to you, don't compromise it to please people. 

JaxInBlue

@JustcallmeA - I had a convalidation following a civil service because I also had family members, VVIPs, that would not have attended our wedding had we had it in the Catholic Church.  In our case, DH and I had our wedding on a Saturday and our convalidation, in private, following Mass on Sunday.  I'd be happy to share with you more about how we talked to the priest who married us about our situation (if you want to send me a PM).

I will add that I completely understood why my family members were not comfortable attending a Catholic service and knew that their opinions weren't going to be changed, that the issues my family members were confronting were much deeper than "not being Church people."  DH and I were extremely fortunate that the parish priest we worked with understood my family challenges and dynamics and was willing to meet us where we could be.  DH and I, though, also knew that a convalidation wasn't a slam dunk, and we sought a lot of advice and counsel before making our decision.  We were lucky, and grateful, that we could navigate everything.