OT question about Catholic communion

monkeysip

Again, because it's pretending to believe something you don't.  It's being fake.  

Would an atheist say a prayer to appease other people?  If so, I find that very bizarre.  

redwoodoriginal

monkeysip said:

Again, because it's pretending to believe something you don't.  It's being fake.  

Would an atheist say a prayer to appease other people?  If so, I find that very bizarre.  

I do with my family. I will take communion if I ever go to church with my family (maybe once a year, if that). I let my parents say plenty of religious things to me and use religion to console themselves as we're dealing with my miscarriage. Is that offensive and wrong? I let them say their religious (Catholic) schpeal and I nod and say okay and then go about my grieving in my own way. Is that offensive? To whom? 

I find it rather telling that these Catholics are being so over the top pissy about something that is done to minimize pain and hurt feelings of people they care about. ::insert eye roll::. 

MobKaz

redwoodoriginal said:

monkeysip said:

Again, because it's pretending to believe something you don't.  It's being fake.  

Would an atheist say a prayer to appease other people?  If so, I find that very bizarre.  

I do with my family. I will take communion if I ever go to church with my family (maybe once a year, if that). I let my parents say plenty of religious things to me and use religion to console themselves as we're dealing with my miscarriage. Is that offensive and wrong? I let them say their religious (Catholic) schpeal and I nod and say okay and then go about my grieving in my own way. Is that offensive? To whom? 

I find it rather telling that these Catholics are being so over the top pissy about something that is done to minimize pain and hurt feelings of people they care about. ::insert eye roll::. 

Wow.  Just wow. 

First let me say I am so sorry you suffered a miscarriage. 

I do not understand why many of you find it hard to believe that "us Catholics" would wither and die if you were not truthful to yourselves and your family members about who you are.  Blatant disrespect for a religious institution is wrong.  Period.  Of course your parents will rely on their faith for strength during a difficult time.  But if those words are hollow to you, then you should tell them that as much as it is appreciated, you prefer to deal with your grief in other ways.  They can pray privately for you. I would be incredibly hurt and angry if either of my children pretended to be someone other than who they are, regardless of how I felt.

ILoveBeachMusic

MobKaz said:

redwoodoriginal said:

monkeysip said:

Again, because it's pretending to believe something you don't.  It's being fake.  

Would an atheist say a prayer to appease other people?  If so, I find that very bizarre.  

I do with my family. I will take communion if I ever go to church with my family (maybe once a year, if that). I let my parents say plenty of religious things to me and use religion to console themselves as we're dealing with my miscarriage. Is that offensive and wrong? I let them say their religious (Catholic) schpeal and I nod and say okay and then go about my grieving in my own way. Is that offensive? To whom? 

I find it rather telling that these Catholics are being so over the top pissy about something that is done to minimize pain and hurt feelings of people they care about. ::insert eye roll::. 

Wow.  Just wow. 

First let me say I am so sorry you suffered a miscarriage. 

I do not understand why many of you find it hard to believe that "us Catholics" would wither and die if you were not truthful to yourselves and your family members about who you are.  Blatant disrespect for a religious institution is wrong.  Period.  Of course your parents will rely on their faith for strength during a difficult time.  But if those words are hollow to you, then you should tell them that as much as it is appreciated, you prefer to deal with your grief in other ways.  They can pray privately for you. I would be incredibly hurt and angry if either of my children pretended to be someone other than who they are, regardless of how I felt.

This is my issue. As I have said many times, I am not Catholic and have many issues with the Catholic church but wouldn't be disrespectful of the church during a Mass. I would say the same thing about a Jewish, Islamic, Hindu or any other religious belief. I just can't come up with a similar situation as communion since I am not as familiar with those religions.

STARMOON44

monkeysip said:

Again, because it's pretending to believe something you don't.  It's being fake.  

Would an atheist say a prayer to appease other people?  If so, I find that very bizarre.  

Again, who are you to decide what she believes or how she should feel about it? If you believe prayer is meaningless, sure I can see saying one to appease family, because it isn't hurting you. 

I just think it's really odd that you are so stridently deciding how someone else's beliefs work. 

ShesSoCold

monkeysip said:

Again, because it's pretending to believe something you don't.  It's being fake.  

Would an atheist say a prayer to appease other people?  If so, I find that very bizarre.  

Yes, I am aware. I know it's fake. I don't care. Are you trying to convince me that it should be more important to me to be 100% completely authentic 100% of the time than to do one tiny thing to make my grandma happy?

And I have said a prayer for someone. An old friend was going through a really hard time and her religion was very important to her. She believed it would help her. So I did. I felt ridiculous but I did it for my friend. If that makes me fake or whatever else, fine. At least I'm a good friend while being a shitty atheist.

banana468

ShesSoCold said:

monkeysip said:

Again, because it's pretending to believe something you don't.  It's being fake.  

Would an atheist say a prayer to appease other people?  If so, I find that very bizarre.  

Yes, I am aware. I know it's fake. I don't care. Are you trying to convince me that it should be more important to me to be 100% completely authentic 100% of the time than to do one tiny thing to make my grandma happy?

And I have said a prayer for someone. An old friend was going through a really hard time and her religion was very important to her. She believed it would help her. So I did. I felt ridiculous but I did it for my friend. If that makes me fake or whatever else, fine. At least I'm a good friend while being a shitty atheist.

But if you're saying a prayer for the friend under the premise that the friend believes that you're doing something honest and believing in the power of prayer.

All the time we talk about how being dishonest with others isn't great.   When people have PPDs and aren't honest with their friends and family it's being fake.   To some brides and grooms they actually felt like they weren't 'really' married until they had their ceremony even though it was for show.   But if the truth comes out to guests they feel hurt and betrayed because they ultimately feel like the bride and groom did something that was a show.

If I asked you to say a prayer and you did but I found out that you felt like saying prayer was the same as talking to your stapler, I'd tilt my head and wonder why you did it if it meant nothing.  

But to a Catholic, taking communion is about more than just the show of it.   So you did something to make a person happy but you weren't being true about it and it's a lie of omission.   Maybe that's not a big deal to you but I hope you understand why others see it as more than a simple gesture.    

I understand why you did it and why to you it was important.   But  please try to understand the other side.    

STARMOON44

banana468 said:

ShesSoCold said:

monkeysip said:

Again, because it's pretending to believe something you don't.  It's being fake.  

Would an atheist say a prayer to appease other people?  If so, I find that very bizarre.  

Yes, I am aware. I know it's fake. I don't care. Are you trying to convince me that it should be more important to me to be 100% completely authentic 100% of the time than to do one tiny thing to make my grandma happy?

And I have said a prayer for someone. An old friend was going through a really hard time and her religion was very important to her. She believed it would help her. So I did. I felt ridiculous but I did it for my friend. If that makes me fake or whatever else, fine. At least I'm a good friend while being a shitty atheist.

But if you're saying a prayer for the friend under the premise that the friend believes that you're doing something honest and believing in the power of prayer.

All the time we talk about how being dishonest with others isn't great.   When people have PPDs and aren't honest with their friends and family it's being fake.   To some brides and grooms they actually felt like they weren't 'really' married until they had their ceremony even though it was for show.   But if the truth comes out to guests they feel hurt and betrayed because they ultimately feel like the bride and groom did something that was a show.

If I asked you to say a prayer and you did but I found out that you felt like saying prayer was the same as talking to your stapler, I'd tilt my head and wonder why you did it if it meant nothing.  

But to a Catholic, taking communion is about more than just the show of it.   So you did something to make a person happy but you weren't being true about it and it's a lie of omission.   Maybe that's not a big deal to you but I hope you understand why others see it as more than a simple gesture.    

I understand why you did it and why to you it was important.   But  please try to understand the other side.    

I think everyone gets that. It might be offensive to people who believe. But it doesn't need to be offensive to her own personal beliefs to participate. You don't get to decide that for her. 

ShesSoCold

banana468 said:

ShesSoCold said:

monkeysip said:

Again, because it's pretending to believe something you don't.  It's being fake.  

Would an atheist say a prayer to appease other people?  If so, I find that very bizarre.  

Yes, I am aware. I know it's fake. I don't care. Are you trying to convince me that it should be more important to me to be 100% completely authentic 100% of the time than to do one tiny thing to make my grandma happy?

And I have said a prayer for someone. An old friend was going through a really hard time and her religion was very important to her. She believed it would help her. So I did. I felt ridiculous but I did it for my friend. If that makes me fake or whatever else, fine. At least I'm a good friend while being a shitty atheist.

But if you're saying a prayer for the friend under the premise that the friend believes that you're doing something honest and believing in the power of prayer.

All the time we talk about how being dishonest with others isn't great.   When people have PPDs and aren't honest with their friends and family it's being fake.   To some brides and grooms they actually felt like they weren't 'really' married until they had their ceremony even though it was for show.   But if the truth comes out to guests they feel hurt and betrayed because they ultimately feel like the bride and groom did something that was a show.

If I asked you to say a prayer and you did but I found out that you felt like saying prayer was the same as talking to your stapler, I'd tilt my head and wonder why you did it if it meant nothing.  

But to a Catholic, taking communion is about more than just the show of it.   So you did something to make a person happy but you weren't being true about it and it's a lie of omission.   Maybe that's not a big deal to you but I hope you understand why others see it as more than a simple gesture.    

I understand why you did it and why to you it was important.   But  please try to understand the other side.    

It meant something to her. That's what mattered. She knew my beliefs.

I do understand that my participating in communion is and was offensive. I do understand the other side. I'm not super mega proud of it and I don't take  communion just for funsies.

What I don't understand is people telling me that I should feel like this or like that and I shouldn't do things (generally) that make my loved ones happy.

banana468

STARMOON44 said:

banana468 said:

ShesSoCold said:

monkeysip said:

Again, because it's pretending to believe something you don't.  It's being fake.  

Would an atheist say a prayer to appease other people?  If so, I find that very bizarre.  

Yes, I am aware. I know it's fake. I don't care. Are you trying to convince me that it should be more important to me to be 100% completely authentic 100% of the time than to do one tiny thing to make my grandma happy?

And I have said a prayer for someone. An old friend was going through a really hard time and her religion was very important to her. She believed it would help her. So I did. I felt ridiculous but I did it for my friend. If that makes me fake or whatever else, fine. At least I'm a good friend while being a shitty atheist.

But if you're saying a prayer for the friend under the premise that the friend believes that you're doing something honest and believing in the power of prayer.

All the time we talk about how being dishonest with others isn't great.   When people have PPDs and aren't honest with their friends and family it's being fake.   To some brides and grooms they actually felt like they weren't 'really' married until they had their ceremony even though it was for show.   But if the truth comes out to guests they feel hurt and betrayed because they ultimately feel like the bride and groom did something that was a show.

If I asked you to say a prayer and you did but I found out that you felt like saying prayer was the same as talking to your stapler, I'd tilt my head and wonder why you did it if it meant nothing.  

But to a Catholic, taking communion is about more than just the show of it.   So you did something to make a person happy but you weren't being true about it and it's a lie of omission.   Maybe that's not a big deal to you but I hope you understand why others see it as more than a simple gesture.    

I understand why you did it and why to you it was important.   But  please try to understand the other side.    

I think everyone gets that. It might be offensive to people who believe. But it doesn't need to be offensive to her own personal beliefs to participate. You don't get to decide that for her. 

You're right.   But just like I don't get to decide for her whether or not she's feeling like she's doing something offensive, how big of an offense it is isn't up to her to decide.   

Again, the best comparison I can make is the PPD.   If a couple doesn't think that they're doing something offensive that doesn't make it less offensive.

And finally @STARMOON44, I would hope that in a discussion about religion there can be more respect for rituals and customs.   Calling communion a snack is rather offensive.   

drglitter

banana468 said:

ShesSoCold said:

monkeysip said:

Again, because it's pretending to believe something you don't.  It's being fake.  

Would an atheist say a prayer to appease other people?  If so, I find that very bizarre.  

Yes, I am aware. I know it's fake. I don't care. Are you trying to convince me that it should be more important to me to be 100% completely authentic 100% of the time than to do one tiny thing to make my grandma happy?

And I have said a prayer for someone. An old friend was going through a really hard time and her religion was very important to her. She believed it would help her. So I did. I felt ridiculous but I did it for my friend. If that makes me fake or whatever else, fine. At least I'm a good friend while being a shitty atheist.

But if you're saying a prayer for the friend under the premise that the friend believes that you're doing something honest and believing in the power of prayer.

All the time we talk about how being dishonest with others isn't great.   When people have PPDs and aren't honest with their friends and family it's being fake.   To some brides and grooms they actually felt like they weren't 'really' married until they had their ceremony even though it was for show.   But if the truth comes out to guests they feel hurt and betrayed because they ultimately feel like the bride and groom did something that was a show.

If I asked you to say a prayer and you did but I found out that you felt like saying prayer was the same as talking to your stapler, I'd tilt my head and wonder why you did it if it meant nothing.  

But to a Catholic, taking communion is about more than just the show of it.   So you did something to make a person happy but you weren't being true about it and it's a lie of omission.   Maybe that's not a big deal to you but I hope you understand why others see it as more than a simple gesture.    

I understand why you did it and why to you it was important.   But  please try to understand the other side.    

Because it means something to the friend. If the friend is right, and prayer makes a difference, then great. If SSC is right and the friend is wrong and it doesn't, no harm done.

I would do the exact same thing.

Similarly, if a religious person tells me they'll pray for me, I don't say "No thanks, I don't believe that works". I say "Thank you". Because to them, it matters.

ILoveBeachMusic

banana468 said:

STARMOON44 said:

banana468 said:

ShesSoCold said:

monkeysip said:

Again, because it's pretending to believe something you don't.  It's being fake.  

Would an atheist say a prayer to appease other people?  If so, I find that very bizarre.  

Yes, I am aware. I know it's fake. I don't care. Are you trying to convince me that it should be more important to me to be 100% completely authentic 100% of the time than to do one tiny thing to make my grandma happy?

And I have said a prayer for someone. An old friend was going through a really hard time and her religion was very important to her. She believed it would help her. So I did. I felt ridiculous but I did it for my friend. If that makes me fake or whatever else, fine. At least I'm a good friend while being a shitty atheist.

But if you're saying a prayer for the friend under the premise that the friend believes that you're doing something honest and believing in the power of prayer.

All the time we talk about how being dishonest with others isn't great.   When people have PPDs and aren't honest with their friends and family it's being fake.   To some brides and grooms they actually felt like they weren't 'really' married until they had their ceremony even though it was for show.   But if the truth comes out to guests they feel hurt and betrayed because they ultimately feel like the bride and groom did something that was a show.

If I asked you to say a prayer and you did but I found out that you felt like saying prayer was the same as talking to your stapler, I'd tilt my head and wonder why you did it if it meant nothing.  

But to a Catholic, taking communion is about more than just the show of it.   So you did something to make a person happy but you weren't being true about it and it's a lie of omission.   Maybe that's not a big deal to you but I hope you understand why others see it as more than a simple gesture.    

I understand why you did it and why to you it was important.   But  please try to understand the other side.    

I think everyone gets that. It might be offensive to people who believe. But it doesn't need to be offensive to her own personal beliefs to participate. You don't get to decide that for her. 

You're right.   But just like I don't get to decide for her whether or not she's feeling like she's doing something offensive, how big of an offense it is isn't up to her to decide.   

Again, the best comparison I can make is the PPD.   If a couple doesn't think that they're doing something offensive that doesn't make it less offensive.

And finally @STARMOON44, I would hope that in a discussion about religion there can be more respect for rituals and customs.   Calling communion a snack is rather offensive.   

That was exactly what I meant with my post. You said it much better!

charlotte989875

I get how someone taking communion without believing in it is upsetting to people that do believe, but how are you ever going to know? If SSC hadn't said what she does no one would have known, and no one would be upset. During mass, unless you're asking everyone individually if they believe and have met the requirements to take communion, how does any one know? And really is it anyone else's business. Isn't that between them and God. 

I understand if someone is going around all "I'm taking communion even though I don't believe in it and I'm going to keep doing this" how that would be offensive, but how often does that really happen? I guess IMO telling SSC she's so wrong for what she did and making it out to be such a huge deal is much ado about nothing. How do you ever know if someone isn't being "truthful" about their communion. 

STARMOON44

banana468 said:

STARMOON44 said:

banana468 said:

ShesSoCold said:

monkeysip said:

Again, because it's pretending to believe something you don't.  It's being fake.  

Would an atheist say a prayer to appease other people?  If so, I find that very bizarre.  

Yes, I am aware. I know it's fake. I don't care. Are you trying to convince me that it should be more important to me to be 100% completely authentic 100% of the time than to do one tiny thing to make my grandma happy?

And I have said a prayer for someone. An old friend was going through a really hard time and her religion was very important to her. She believed it would help her. So I did. I felt ridiculous but I did it for my friend. If that makes me fake or whatever else, fine. At least I'm a good friend while being a shitty atheist.

But if you're saying a prayer for the friend under the premise that the friend believes that you're doing something honest and believing in the power of prayer.

All the time we talk about how being dishonest with others isn't great.   When people have PPDs and aren't honest with their friends and family it's being fake.   To some brides and grooms they actually felt like they weren't 'really' married until they had their ceremony even though it was for show.   But if the truth comes out to guests they feel hurt and betrayed because they ultimately feel like the bride and groom did something that was a show.

If I asked you to say a prayer and you did but I found out that you felt like saying prayer was the same as talking to your stapler, I'd tilt my head and wonder why you did it if it meant nothing.  

But to a Catholic, taking communion is about more than just the show of it.   So you did something to make a person happy but you weren't being true about it and it's a lie of omission.   Maybe that's not a big deal to you but I hope you understand why others see it as more than a simple gesture.    

I understand why you did it and why to you it was important.   But  please try to understand the other side.    

I think everyone gets that. It might be offensive to people who believe. But it doesn't need to be offensive to her own personal beliefs to participate. You don't get to decide that for her. 

You're right.   But just like I don't get to decide for her whether or not she's feeling like she's doing something offensive, how big of an offense it is isn't up to her to decide.   

Again, the best comparison I can make is the PPD.   If a couple doesn't think that they're doing something offensive that doesn't make it less offensive.

And finally @STARMOON44, I would hope that in a discussion about religion there can be more respect for rituals and customs.   Calling communion a snack is rather offensive




it was an illustration of what communion might be to an atheist. She isn't arguing, and I'm not arguing, that it isn't offensive to others. Just that it isn't offensive to her own beliefs. That's all I disagree with you on. 

flantastic

Honestly, I can understand SSC not caring whether or not she takes communion. It's meaningless to her, and she doesn't care whether her reception offends Catholics in general. I don't see that as inauthentic to her own beliefs.

However, I do think that Grandma, as a Catholic, would have been far more upset about the unbelieving reception than about the atheism. That seems to be a moot point now.

MobKaz

ShesSoCold said:

banana468 said:

ShesSoCold said:

monkeysip said:

Again, because it's pretending to believe something you don't.  It's being fake.  

Would an atheist say a prayer to appease other people?  If so, I find that very bizarre.  

Yes, I am aware. I know it's fake. I don't care. Are you trying to convince me that it should be more important to me to be 100% completely authentic 100% of the time than to do one tiny thing to make my grandma happy?

And I have said a prayer for someone. An old friend was going through a really hard time and her religion was very important to her. She believed it would help her. So I did. I felt ridiculous but I did it for my friend. If that makes me fake or whatever else, fine. At least I'm a good friend while being a shitty atheist.

But if you're saying a prayer for the friend under the premise that the friend believes that you're doing something honest and believing in the power of prayer.

All the time we talk about how being dishonest with others isn't great.   When people have PPDs and aren't honest with their friends and family it's being fake.   To some brides and grooms they actually felt like they weren't 'really' married until they had their ceremony even though it was for show.   But if the truth comes out to guests they feel hurt and betrayed because they ultimately feel like the bride and groom did something that was a show.

If I asked you to say a prayer and you did but I found out that you felt like saying prayer was the same as talking to your stapler, I'd tilt my head and wonder why you did it if it meant nothing.  

But to a Catholic, taking communion is about more than just the show of it.   So you did something to make a person happy but you weren't being true about it and it's a lie of omission.   Maybe that's not a big deal to you but I hope you understand why others see it as more than a simple gesture.    

I understand why you did it and why to you it was important.   But  please try to understand the other side.    

It meant something to her. That's what mattered. She knew my beliefs.

I do understand that my participating in communion is and was offensive. I do understand the other side. I'm not super mega proud of it and I don't take  communion just for funsies.

What I don't understand is people telling me that I should feel like this or like that and I shouldn't do things (generally) that make my loved ones happy.

What?  This story cannot have it both ways.  You said your grandmother was a DEVOUT Catholic.  There is no way that your grandmother would find it acceptable or comforting to have someone accept the Holy Eucharist who was not only NOT in a state of grace, but a non believer as well.

ShesSoCold

MobKaz said:

ShesSoCold said:

banana468 said:

ShesSoCold said:

monkeysip said:

Again, because it's pretending to believe something you don't.  It's being fake.  

Would an atheist say a prayer to appease other people?  If so, I find that very bizarre.  

Yes, I am aware. I know it's fake. I don't care. Are you trying to convince me that it should be more important to me to be 100% completely authentic 100% of the time than to do one tiny thing to make my grandma happy?

And I have said a prayer for someone. An old friend was going through a really hard time and her religion was very important to her. She believed it would help her. So I did. I felt ridiculous but I did it for my friend. If that makes me fake or whatever else, fine. At least I'm a good friend while being a shitty atheist.

But if you're saying a prayer for the friend under the premise that the friend believes that you're doing something honest and believing in the power of prayer.

All the time we talk about how being dishonest with others isn't great.   When people have PPDs and aren't honest with their friends and family it's being fake.   To some brides and grooms they actually felt like they weren't 'really' married until they had their ceremony even though it was for show.   But if the truth comes out to guests they feel hurt and betrayed because they ultimately feel like the bride and groom did something that was a show.

If I asked you to say a prayer and you did but I found out that you felt like saying prayer was the same as talking to your stapler, I'd tilt my head and wonder why you did it if it meant nothing.  

But to a Catholic, taking communion is about more than just the show of it.   So you did something to make a person happy but you weren't being true about it and it's a lie of omission.   Maybe that's not a big deal to you but I hope you understand why others see it as more than a simple gesture.    

I understand why you did it and why to you it was important.   But  please try to understand the other side.    

It meant something to her. That's what mattered. She knew my beliefs.

I do understand that my participating in communion is and was offensive. I do understand the other side. I'm not super mega proud of it and I don't take  communion just for funsies.

What I don't understand is people telling me that I should feel like this or like that and I shouldn't do things (generally) that make my loved ones happy.

What?  This story cannot have it both ways.  You said your grandmother was a DEVOUT Catholic.  There is no way that your grandmother would find it acceptable or comforting to have someone accept the Holy Eucharist who was not only NOT in a state of grace, but a non believer as well.

I was talking about my friend who I prayed for, not my grandma.

MobKaz

ShesSoCold said:

MobKaz said:

ShesSoCold said:

banana468 said:

ShesSoCold said:

monkeysip said:

Again, because it's pretending to believe something you don't.  It's being fake.  

Would an atheist say a prayer to appease other people?  If so, I find that very bizarre.  

Yes, I am aware. I know it's fake. I don't care. Are you trying to convince me that it should be more important to me to be 100% completely authentic 100% of the time than to do one tiny thing to make my grandma happy?

And I have said a prayer for someone. An old friend was going through a really hard time and her religion was very important to her. She believed it would help her. So I did. I felt ridiculous but I did it for my friend. If that makes me fake or whatever else, fine. At least I'm a good friend while being a shitty atheist.

But if you're saying a prayer for the friend under the premise that the friend believes that you're doing something honest and believing in the power of prayer.

All the time we talk about how being dishonest with others isn't great.   When people have PPDs and aren't honest with their friends and family it's being fake.   To some brides and grooms they actually felt like they weren't 'really' married until they had their ceremony even though it was for show.   But if the truth comes out to guests they feel hurt and betrayed because they ultimately feel like the bride and groom did something that was a show.

If I asked you to say a prayer and you did but I found out that you felt like saying prayer was the same as talking to your stapler, I'd tilt my head and wonder why you did it if it meant nothing.  

But to a Catholic, taking communion is about more than just the show of it.   So you did something to make a person happy but you weren't being true about it and it's a lie of omission.   Maybe that's not a big deal to you but I hope you understand why others see it as more than a simple gesture.    

I understand why you did it and why to you it was important.   But  please try to understand the other side.    

It meant something to her. That's what mattered. She knew my beliefs.

I do understand that my participating in communion is and was offensive. I do understand the other side. I'm not super mega proud of it and I don't take  communion just for funsies.

What I don't understand is people telling me that I should feel like this or like that and I shouldn't do things (generally) that make my loved ones happy.

What?  This story cannot have it both ways.  You said your grandmother was a DEVOUT Catholic.  There is no way that your grandmother would find it acceptable or comforting to have someone accept the Holy Eucharist who was not only NOT in a state of grace, but a non believer as well.

I was talking about my friend who I prayed for, not my grandma.

Thank you.  I knew that sounded "off" but this thread has so many quotes on quotes it was a little blurry to navigate.

LD1970

<-- Agnostic Jew.  I believe in honesty, and would never go up for communion or a blessing in church.  I also don't pray, in church or in synagogue, because I'd feel like a complete hypocrite and horribly disrespectful... and by the same token, I'd NEVER call or even think of the Eucharist as "a snack."  I've been in church and synagogue for events, and I stand and sit when appropriate, but that's it.

My best friend in the world was raised Catholic but became unspecified Christian after moving to Colorado.  When I've had hard times, he'd said, "I'm praying for you."  I don't believe in prayer, but am grateful anyway, because I know he believes in it, and I take it in the spirit in which it's meant.  Besides, I know it just plain means he's rooting for me, and I'll take it.

Another friend gave me a bumblebee lucky charm because I'm a beekeeper.  It lives in my purse, even though I don't believe in lucky charms, because why not?  Again, I take it in the spirit in which it was given.

ShesSoCold

So, at the risk of sounding like I'm backtracking, I just re-read my posts and I apologize for how flippant my tone was. I understand that what's just a stale wafer to me is a huge thing for others.

I respect the beliefs and religions of others and while I would like to say that I would never intentionally disrespect a religion or its practices, clearly I cannot. But I do recall sitting in mass, thinking about the communion and how shitty it is for me to take it and how I'd rather not. But like I said, Grandma > respecting the church, IMHO. And actually at her funeral mass, I thought to myself that this will be the last time I ever take communion because I took it for her. I felt it appropriate to take it for her one last time. I've been to a mass since then and knelt quietly in thought in my pew while everyone else took communion.

Now that she's gone, I see no reason for me to intentionally disrespect any religion and I honestly typically go out of my way to respect the beliefs and opinions of others, religious and otherwise. There are very few people in life that I care that much about, and three out of those four are dead.

Again, I'm sorry for my seemingly careless attitude about this. And also for unintentionally making this thread about me.

PrettyGirlLost

ShesSoCold said:

monkeysip said:

ShesSoCold said:

I was raised Catholic, went though all the communion and confirmation, etc. I consider myself atheist. When I'd go to church as an adult (for a funeral or mass dedicated to my grandpa or something), I'd take communion. I knew my grandma would notice if I didn't.

Sorry, Catholicism. I care more about my grandma's opinion than yours.

It's not about the Church's opinion.  You don't have to care about the Church's opinion.  It's about being authentic with your own beliefs.  If you don't believe in something, why would you pretend to just for your grandma?  Especially when this is considered something sacred?  You're an atheist.  Own it.  

banana468 said:

ShesSoCold said:

I was raised Catholic, went though all the communion and confirmation, etc. I consider myself atheist. When I'd go to church as an adult (for a funeral or mass dedicated to my grandpa or something), I'd take communion. I knew my grandma would notice if I didn't.

Sorry, Catholicism. I care more about my grandma's opinion than yours.

So you want to lie to grandma?? 

I don't get it.

You can not take communion for as simple a reason as missing missing Mass the week before.   And from the sound of it if you said that as a reason to Grandma it's not really a lie.

About religion, I would absolutely lie to my grandma. She was a devout Catholic and a worrier and I love her too much than to intentionally have her awake at night thinking about how I'm going to hell. To me, the act of taking communion while with my grandma outweighed the disrespect of doing so as an atheist. I'll own my atheism to anyone on the planet except her. 

To to me it's the same as hiding a speeding ticket or bad grade from my mom as a teenager. Or telling my dad I broke up with whatever guy because he lived too far away, not because he'd scared me a few times. I'm fine with it, it wasn't worth their worry. 

I totally get this.  This is something that I consider to be between SSC, her conscious, and her God, honestly.  But I have a pretty liberal and heretical view of most Abrahamic religions.

I'm pretty sure the pews are filled each Sunday with many children and adults that aren't devout Catholics, but are just going through the motions to appease their parents, spouses, grandparents etc.  Is that any different?  How about all the CEO Catholics- Christmas and Easter Only. . . pretty sure none of them should be taking communion or are fooling God, right?

If SSC taking communion as a sign of love and respect for her grandmother, despite her personal beliefs is offense to people, then I should hope anyone who takes communion w/o having gone to confession, while engaging in premarital fornication, and while divorced but not annuled is equally offensive.

MobKaz said:

ShesSoCold said:

It meant something to her. That's what mattered. She knew my beliefs.

I do understand that my participating in communion is and was offensive. I do understand the other side. I'm not super mega proud of it and I don't take  communion just for funsies.

What I don't understand is people telling me that I should feel like this or like that and I shouldn't do things (generally) that make my loved ones happy.

What?  This story cannot have it both ways.  You said your grandmother was a DEVOUT Catholic.  There is no way that your grandmother would find it acceptable or comforting to have someone accept the Holy Eucharist who was not only NOT in a state of grace, but a non believer as well.

ETA: Not necessarily.  I don't think you realize how powerful Denial or Believing What you Want to Believe is for some people.

I personally know quite a few people who were raised Catholic, fought with their parents about going to church as teens and young adults because they did not believe in nor want to practice Catholicism, and yet gave up in the end and went to church with their parents because those were "the rules for living in my house" and took communion because it was easier than causing a scene in church or having a blow out argument at home afterwards, and their parents were just oh so happy that their kids were going to church.

They knew damn well their kids didn't want to practice Catholicism any longer, but they didn't care as long as their kids still went to church.

MobKaz

PrettyGirlLost said:

ShesSoCold said:

monkeysip said:

ShesSoCold said:

I was raised Catholic, went though all the communion and confirmation, etc. I consider myself atheist. When I'd go to church as an adult (for a funeral or mass dedicated to my grandpa or something), I'd take communion. I knew my grandma would notice if I didn't.

Sorry, Catholicism. I care more about my grandma's opinion than yours.

It's not about the Church's opinion.  You don't have to care about the Church's opinion.  It's about being authentic with your own beliefs.  If you don't believe in something, why would you pretend to just for your grandma?  Especially when this is considered something sacred?  You're an atheist.  Own it.  

banana468 said:

ShesSoCold said:

I was raised Catholic, went though all the communion and confirmation, etc. I consider myself atheist. When I'd go to church as an adult (for a funeral or mass dedicated to my grandpa or something), I'd take communion. I knew my grandma would notice if I didn't.

Sorry, Catholicism. I care more about my grandma's opinion than yours.

So you want to lie to grandma?? 

I don't get it.

You can not take communion for as simple a reason as missing missing Mass the week before.   And from the sound of it if you said that as a reason to Grandma it's not really a lie.

About religion, I would absolutely lie to my grandma. She was a devout Catholic and a worrier and I love her too much than to intentionally have her awake at night thinking about how I'm going to hell. To me, the act of taking communion while with my grandma outweighed the disrespect of doing so as an atheist. I'll own my atheism to anyone on the planet except her. 

To to me it's the same as hiding a speeding ticket or bad grade from my mom as a teenager. Or telling my dad I broke up with whatever guy because he lived too far away, not because he'd scared me a few times. I'm fine with it, it wasn't worth their worry. 

I totally get this.  This is something that I consider to be between SSC, her conscious, and her God, honestly.  But I have a pretty liberal and heretical view of most Abrahamic religions.

I'm pretty sure the pews are filled each Sunday with many children and adults that aren't devout Catholics, but are just going through the motions to appease their parents, spouses, grandparents etc.  Is that any different?  How about all the CEO Catholics- Christmas and Easter Only. . . pretty sure none of them should be taking communion or are fooling God, right?

If SSC taking communion as a sign of love and respect for her grandmother, despite her personal beliefs is offense to people, then I should hope anyone who takes communion w/o having gone to confession, while engaging in premarital fornication, and while divorced but not annuled is equally offensive.

MobKaz said:

ShesSoCold said:

It meant something to her. That's what mattered. She knew my beliefs.

I do understand that my participating in communion is and was offensive. I do understand the other side. I'm not super mega proud of it and I don't take  communion just for funsies.

What I don't understand is people telling me that I should feel like this or like that and I shouldn't do things (generally) that make my loved ones happy.

What?  This story cannot have it both ways.  You said your grandmother was a DEVOUT Catholic.  There is no way that your grandmother would find it acceptable or comforting to have someone accept the Holy Eucharist who was not only NOT in a state of grace, but a non believer as well.

ETA: Not necessarily.  I don't think you realize how powerful Denial or Believing What you Want to Believe is for some people.

I personally know quite a few people who were raised Catholic, fought with their parents about going to church as teens and young adults because they did not believe in nor want to practice Catholicism, and yet gave up in the end and went to church with their parents because those were "the rules for living in my house" and took communion because it was easier than causing a scene in church or having a blow out argument at home afterwards, and their parents were just oh so happy that their kids were going to church.

They knew damn well their kids didn't want to practice Catholicism any longer, but they didn't care as long as their kids still went to church.

I get it.  Completely.  I have 2 kids.  My daughter has followed in the faith.  My son has not.  Their weddings and lives are an absolute reflection of that.  I respect that.  I would smack my son upside the head six ways to Sunday at the thought of him ever taking Communion.  It absolutely gnaws at me that he has no interest in religion on a spiritual level, but I would never ask or expect him to be anyone other than who he is. 

As long as "kids" live with their parents, that scenario might be acceptable.  But SCC is an adult who lives away from her parents.  Avoiding a scene (generally, not SCC specifically) is no excuse for not owning who you are as a person.  We tell brides on the boards all the time not to cave in to a church wedding if it is not who they are as a couple.  We advise brides all the time to stand up for themselves and not give in to the demands of family.  Denial is absolutely a powerful emotion.  But that does not mean it should win over truth every time.

PrettyGirlLost

MobKaz said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

ShesSoCold said:

monkeysip said:

ShesSoCold said:

I was raised Catholic, went though all the communion and confirmation, etc. I consider myself atheist. When I'd go to church as an adult (for a funeral or mass dedicated to my grandpa or something), I'd take communion. I knew my grandma would notice if I didn't.

Sorry, Catholicism. I care more about my grandma's opinion than yours.

It's not about the Church's opinion.  You don't have to care about the Church's opinion.  It's about being authentic with your own beliefs.  If you don't believe in something, why would you pretend to just for your grandma?  Especially when this is considered something sacred?  You're an atheist.  Own it.  

banana468 said:

ShesSoCold said:

I was raised Catholic, went though all the communion and confirmation, etc. I consider myself atheist. When I'd go to church as an adult (for a funeral or mass dedicated to my grandpa or something), I'd take communion. I knew my grandma would notice if I didn't.

Sorry, Catholicism. I care more about my grandma's opinion than yours.

So you want to lie to grandma?? 

I don't get it.

You can not take communion for as simple a reason as missing missing Mass the week before.   And from the sound of it if you said that as a reason to Grandma it's not really a lie.

About religion, I would absolutely lie to my grandma. She was a devout Catholic and a worrier and I love her too much than to intentionally have her awake at night thinking about how I'm going to hell. To me, the act of taking communion while with my grandma outweighed the disrespect of doing so as an atheist. I'll own my atheism to anyone on the planet except her. 

To to me it's the same as hiding a speeding ticket or bad grade from my mom as a teenager. Or telling my dad I broke up with whatever guy because he lived too far away, not because he'd scared me a few times. I'm fine with it, it wasn't worth their worry. 

I totally get this.  This is something that I consider to be between SSC, her conscious, and her God, honestly.  But I have a pretty liberal and heretical view of most Abrahamic religions.

I'm pretty sure the pews are filled each Sunday with many children and adults that aren't devout Catholics, but are just going through the motions to appease their parents, spouses, grandparents etc.  Is that any different?  How about all the CEO Catholics- Christmas and Easter Only. . . pretty sure none of them should be taking communion or are fooling God, right?

If SSC taking communion as a sign of love and respect for her grandmother, despite her personal beliefs is offense to people, then I should hope anyone who takes communion w/o having gone to confession, while engaging in premarital fornication, and while divorced but not annuled is equally offensive.

MobKaz said:

ShesSoCold said:

It meant something to her. That's what mattered. She knew my beliefs.

I do understand that my participating in communion is and was offensive. I do understand the other side. I'm not super mega proud of it and I don't take  communion just for funsies.

What I don't understand is people telling me that I should feel like this or like that and I shouldn't do things (generally) that make my loved ones happy.

What?  This story cannot have it both ways.  You said your grandmother was a DEVOUT Catholic.  There is no way that your grandmother would find it acceptable or comforting to have someone accept the Holy Eucharist who was not only NOT in a state of grace, but a non believer as well.

ETA: Not necessarily.  I don't think you realize how powerful Denial or Believing What you Want to Believe is for some people.

I personally know quite a few people who were raised Catholic, fought with their parents about going to church as teens and young adults because they did not believe in nor want to practice Catholicism, and yet gave up in the end and went to church with their parents because those were "the rules for living in my house" and took communion because it was easier than causing a scene in church or having a blow out argument at home afterwards, and their parents were just oh so happy that their kids were going to church.

They knew damn well their kids didn't want to practice Catholicism any longer, but they didn't care as long as their kids still went to church.

I get it.  Completely.  I have 2 kids.  My daughter has followed in the faith.  My son has not.  Their weddings and lives are an absolute reflection of that.  I respect that.  I would smack my son upside the head six ways to Sunday at the thought of him ever taking Communion.  It absolutely gnaws at me that he has no interest in religion on a spiritual level, but I would never ask or expect him to be anyone other than who he is. 

As long as "kids" live with their parents, that scenario might be acceptable.  But SCC is an adult who lives away from her parents.  Avoiding a scene (generally, not SCC specifically) is no excuse for not owning who you are as a person.  We tell brides on the boards all the time not to cave in to a church wedding if it is not who they are as a couple.  We advise brides all the time to stand up for themselves and not give in to the demands of family.  Denial is absolutely a powerful emotion.  But that does not mean it should win over truth every time.

Not everything is a deal breaking issue where one just *must* enforce their personal boundaries, and not everyone can handle the truth.

For SSC it wasn't a matter of not owning who she is and really about being respectful to her Grandmother and doing something she knew would make her happy.

Or to put it another way, making a stand and enforcing her aetheism wasn't more important than making her Grandmother happy.

She was still an atheist, she was just an atheist eating a wafer in order to make her Grandmother happy.  So while you might personally find that offensive, SSC and SSC's Grandmother don't.  And if God exists and He finds it personally offensive then I'm sure He will deal with it accordingly.

flantastic

I kind of doubt that grandmother had no clue and was blissfully happy about SSC receiving communion, but that really isn't something we can know.

In general, I don't think lying to people to make them happy often works too well, denial or not.

CMGragain

My sister's first husband was an atheist.  I'm not sure how they got our Methodist pastor to agree to do their wedding in the church.  They requested that there be no prayer.  The minister did what he wanted to do and had the prayer anyway.  (This marriage was a short one!  The jerk stayed married to her just long enough for her to work and pay for his college degree.)
My Grandma gave sister and husband a Bible for a wedding gift.  Instead of thanking her, jerk former brother-in-law said "Oh, we don't believe in any of that God stuff."  It hurt her terribly.
I get not going out of your way to tell Grandma, but I don't get lying to her, or taking communion to pretend you still believe.
When DH and I were married the following year, Grandma gave us cash.  We bought a Bible with that cash, and told her that we did when writing the thank you note.  She was very happy.
I have no problem with atheists; my son is one.

PrettyGirlLost

CMGragain said:

My sister's first husband was an atheist.  I'm not sure how they got our Methodist pastor to agree to do their wedding in the church.  They requested that there be no prayer.  The minister did what he wanted to do and had the prayer anyway.  (This marriage was a short one!  The jerk stayed married to her just long enough for her to work and pay for his college degree.)
My Grandma gave sister and husband a Bible for a wedding gift.  Instead of thanking her, jerk former brother-in-law said "Oh, we don't believe in any of that God stuff."  It hurt her terribly.
I get not going out of your way to tell Grandma, but I don't get lying to her, or taking communion to pretend you still believe.
When DH and I were married the following year, Grandma gave us cash.  We bought a Bible with that cash, and told her that we did when writing the thank you note.  She was very happy.
I have no problem with atheists; my son is one.

You answered your own question before you asked it.

Had former BIL just accepted the Bible and thanked Grandma, it would have had the same effect as SSC taking communion.

photokitty

PrettyGirlLost said:

CMGragain said:

My sister's first husband was an atheist.  I'm not sure how they got our Methodist pastor to agree to do their wedding in the church.  They requested that there be no prayer.  The minister did what he wanted to do and had the prayer anyway.  (This marriage was a short one!  The jerk stayed married to her just long enough for her to work and pay for his college degree.)
My Grandma gave sister and husband a Bible for a wedding gift.  Instead of thanking her, jerk former brother-in-law said "Oh, we don't believe in any of that God stuff."  It hurt her terribly.
I get not going out of your way to tell Grandma, but I don't get lying to her, or taking communion to pretend you still believe.
When DH and I were married the following year, Grandma gave us cash.  We bought a Bible with that cash, and told her that we did when writing the thank you note.  She was very happy.
I have no problem with atheists; my son is one.

You answered your own question before you asked it.

Had former BIL just accepted the Bible and thanked Grandma, it would have had the same effect as SSC taking communion.

He received the bible as a gift for his wedding held in the Methodist church, he had already answered the question. He's fine being a hypocrite and rude in one fell swoop.

I'm conflicted by much of this conversation. I was a devout Catholic, regular lector, weekly attendee, went to confession, the full deal. However, when I married DH who is not Catholic and divorced, I found myself not in good standing. It has caused great strife in my faith and many questions. Despite my desire to enter into the Eucharist, and my former priest's willingness to give it to me, despite not being in good standing and he knew this fact, I refuse to take communion.

I feel since I know what the church teaches it means, what it meant to me and what I know it means to others that taking communion would be like burning the US flag. Yes you can do it, but it is very offensive to others and is a line you should strongly consider before crossing. After all, if you don't believe in transubstaniation it too is just a symbol. But I think we can all agree, both are very powerful, meaningful symbols to those who believe in them.

 It is about respect, not for God, but for the religious beliefs of others. I think we all need to respect the religious beliefs of others, whether we believe them or not. (except if the belief causes real harm, then I don't think it's a religious belief, but man made bullshit under the guise of religion)

MobKaz

PrettyGirlLost said:

CMGragain said:

My sister's first husband was an atheist.  I'm not sure how they got our Methodist pastor to agree to do their wedding in the church.  They requested that there be no prayer.  The minister did what he wanted to do and had the prayer anyway.  (This marriage was a short one!  The jerk stayed married to her just long enough for her to work and pay for his college degree.)
My Grandma gave sister and husband a Bible for a wedding gift.  Instead of thanking her, jerk former brother-in-law said "Oh, we don't believe in any of that God stuff."  It hurt her terribly.
I get not going out of your way to tell Grandma, but I don't get lying to her, or taking communion to pretend you still believe.
When DH and I were married the following year, Grandma gave us cash.  We bought a Bible with that cash, and told her that we did when writing the thank you note.  She was very happy.
I have no problem with atheists; my son is one.

You answered your own question before you asked it.

Had former BIL just accepted the Bible and thanked Grandma, it would have had the same effect as SSC taking communion.

There is a huge difference between a Bible and the Holy Eucharist.

PrettyGirlLost

MobKaz said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

CMGragain said:

My sister's first husband was an atheist.  I'm not sure how they got our Methodist pastor to agree to do their wedding in the church.  They requested that there be no prayer.  The minister did what he wanted to do and had the prayer anyway.  (This marriage was a short one!  The jerk stayed married to her just long enough for her to work and pay for his college degree.)
My Grandma gave sister and husband a Bible for a wedding gift.  Instead of thanking her, jerk former brother-in-law said "Oh, we don't believe in any of that God stuff."  It hurt her terribly.
I get not going out of your way to tell Grandma, but I don't get lying to her, or taking communion to pretend you still believe.
When DH and I were married the following year, Grandma gave us cash.  We bought a Bible with that cash, and told her that we did when writing the thank you note.  She was very happy.
I have no problem with atheists; my son is one.

You answered your own question before you asked it.

Had former BIL just accepted the Bible and thanked Grandma, it would have had the same effect as SSC taking communion.

There is a huge difference between a Bible and the Holy Eucharist.

Not if you "don't believe in that God stuff."

PrettyGirlLost

So here's a question, and I'm just genuinely curious based on this discussion:

If you have a Protestant friend or family member and they attend a Catholic mass with you, would you be offended if they took communion since they don't believe in transubstantiation?

If you attended a Protestant or Lutheran mass would you take communion, or is that offensive to them?