what do you think?

kaos16

Has anyone seen the "Blue Lives Matter" flags that people have been flying.  It looks like the American flag, but in black and gray except for the one stripe under the starts which is blue. 

A local business posted a picture of the one outside their shop the other day on Facebook and I saw a pickup on the way to work today that was flying one.

What say you??

For me: I support law enforcement and respect the dangerous situations Police Officers are put in on a daily basis.  I have a lot of friends and family members who are law enforcement, and work closely with them as well.  (I certainly do not condone officers who abuse their power, but I like to think they are the exception, not the rule)  With that being said, there is something about changing the American flag that rubs me the wrong way.  Are you even allowed to do that?  Why couldn't someone made a separate flag?  I'm torn when I see it.

MandyPandy87

I'm not a fan. I'm also not a fan of "Blue Lives Matter" and "All Lives Matter". I support our law enforcement to an extent. I support all people. However, things like this diminishes what the Black Lives Matter movement is about. 

It's also interesting to me that when someone says "Blue Lives Matter" no one comes up to them and says "well, all lives matter". 

ShesSoCold

I strongly disagree with any changes to the American flag or the anthem or any of that. I've seen flags with NFL team colors and stuff and that pisses me right off. I've been to sporting events where they change the end of the anthem too (like "and the home of the Chiefs") and that also grinds my gears.

DrillSergeantCat

MandyPandy87 said:

I'm not a fan. I'm also not a fan of "Blue Lives Matter" and "All Lives Matter". I support our law enforcement to an extent. I support all people. However, things like this diminishes what the Black Lives Matter movement is about. 

It's also interesting to me that when someone says "Blue Lives Matter" no one comes up to them and says "well, all lives matter". 

That's probably because the ones in blue are of all races. I guess people could say "criminals lives matter too" to them? I'm not saying that you deserve to die if you commit a crime, but I know that if I point a gun at an officer or go for his gun that there's a very good chance I'm going to die. 

STARMOON44

Blue Lives have ALWAYS fucking mattered. I hate the flags and I think the movement is bigoted and part of the problem. 

DrillSergeantCat

STARMOON44 said:

Blue Lives have ALWAYS fucking mattered. I hate the flags and I think the movement is bigoted and part of the problem. 

This didn't really start until those cops were gunned down in Dallas, though, right? If that's the case, I can understand why the movement started. The officers that were shot in Dallas, Baton Rouge, and everywhere else are being targeted. They didn't do anything to deserve that except put on their uniform and go to work. 

thisismynickname2

I don't think anyone should change a country's flag or national anthem or national pledge to suit themselves (like removing "under God" from the pledge). 

I am very worried about the police. These are people that have volunteered to try to uphold the laws of the country and now they're being targeted. Three gangs (gangs, folks) on the west side of Chicago are strongly rumored to be planning attacks on the police. There is something to be said about the poverty cycle and systematic racism, and something to be said about corruption within some police forces, but when you look at overall crime statistics, targeting the police is misguided. 

The thing about the Chicago gangs really pisses me off. Here's a collective group of people engaged in illegal activities (drugs and attacking and murder), wanting to go out and do more illegal things (attacking and murder) because another group wants to stop them from doing said illegal things. #logic 

DrillSergeantCat

thisismynickname said:

I don't think anyone should change a country's flag or national anthem or national pledge to suit themselves (like removing "under God" from the pledge). 

I am very worried about the police. These are people that have volunteered to try to uphold the laws of the country and now they're being targeted. Three gangs (gangs, folks) on the west side of Chicago are strongly rumored to be planning attacks on the police. There is something to be said about the poverty cycle and systematic racism, and something to be said about corruption within some police forces, but when you look at overall crime statistics, targeting the police is misguided. 

The thing about the Chicago gangs really pisses me off. Here's a collective group of people engaged in illegal activities (drugs and attacking and murder), wanting to go out and do more illegal things (attacking and murder) because another group wants to stop them from doing said illegal things. #logic 

Under God wasn't originally part of the pledge, so it doesn't bother me if it's removed. Totally agree with the rest of your statement. 

thisismynickname2

@DrillSergeantCat
Re- Under God. Oh really? Wasn't aware. Will read up on that some more. I definitely learned it with "under God" as a kid. 

ei34

Not a fan of changing up the flag.  At least in my area, Blue Lives matter started when two NYPD officers were shot and killed in Brooklyn in December 2014 simply because they were cops.  It was a few months after the Eric Garner tragedy in NYC (and lots of cases of cops abusing their power around the country). 
My big eye roll with blue lives matter as a response to black lives matter is that a member of any race can choose to be a cop, whereas you're either born black or you're not.  It's ridiculous to use blue lives matter as a rally cry or a response because it's just not the same.  That being said, I greatly appreciate what the majority of police do for our society 24/7/365.

As usual, Jon Stewart gets it right:

DrillSergeantCat

thisismynickname said:

@DrillSergeantCat
Re- Under God. Oh really? Wasn't aware. Will read up on that some more. I definitely learned it with "under God" as a kid. 

http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

DrillSergeantCat

eileenrob said:

Not a fan of changing up the flag.  At least in my area, Blue Lives matter started when two NYPD officers were shot and killed in Brooklyn in December 2014 simply because they were cops.  It was a few months after the Eric Garner tragedy in NYC (and lots of cases of cops abusing their power around the country). 
My big eye roll with blue lives matter as a response to black lives matter is that a member of any race can choose to be a cop, whereas you're either born black or you're not.  It's ridiculous to use blue lives matter as a rally cry or a response because it's just not the same.  That being said, I greatly appreciate what the majority of police do for our society 24/7/365.

As usual, Jon Stewart gets it right:

You can also choose to be a criminal. I know that blacks are sentenced disproportionately to whites for the same crimes and I do not understand that, but studies I've read show that whites are actually shot and killed by the police more often than any other race. This is a media issue. 

STARMOON44

thisismynickname said:

@DrillSergeantCat
Re- Under God. Oh really? Wasn't aware. Will read up on that some more. I definitely learned it with "under God" as a kid. 

Yup. Added in 1954. 

STARMOON44

DrillSergeantCat said:

eileenrob said:

Not a fan of changing up the flag.  At least in my area, Blue Lives matter started when two NYPD officers were shot and killed in Brooklyn in December 2014 simply because they were cops.  It was a few months after the Eric Garner tragedy in NYC (and lots of cases of cops abusing their power around the country). 
My big eye roll with blue lives matter as a response to black lives matter is that a member of any race can choose to be a cop, whereas you're either born black or you're not.  It's ridiculous to use blue lives matter as a rally cry or a response because it's just not the same.  That being said, I greatly appreciate what the majority of police do for our society 24/7/365.

As usual, Jon Stewart gets it right:

You can also choose to be a criminal. I know that blacks are sentenced disproportionately to whites for the same crimes and I do not understand that, but studies I've read show that whites are actually shot and killed by the police more often than any other race. This is a media issue. 

You've got to be fucking kidding me. That's ignorant racist bullshit. Whites should be shot and killed more often because there are way the hell a lot more of us. If you don't understand disparate sentencing read The New Jim Crow. Don't feel like you need to declare your ignorant views on things. 

This is not a media issue. At all. 

DrillSergeantCat

STARMOON44 said:

You've got to be fucking kidding me. That's ignorant racist bullshit. Whites should be shot and killed more often because there are way the hell a lot more of us. 

Why does that make me racist? I'm simply saying that it's not disproportionate like sentencing is.

STARMOON44

DrillSergeantCat said:

STARMOON44 said:

You've got to be fucking kidding me. That's ignorant racist bullshit. Whites should be shot and killed more often because there are way the hell a lot more of us. 

Why does that make me racist? I'm simply saying that it's not disproportionate like sentencing is.

Calling it a media issue is racist. 

ShesSoCold

STARMOON44

DrillSergeantCat said:

MandyPandy87 said:

I'm not a fan. I'm also not a fan of "Blue Lives Matter" and "All Lives Matter". I support our law enforcement to an extent. I support all people. However, things like this diminishes what the Black Lives Matter movement is about. 

It's also interesting to me that when someone says "Blue Lives Matter" no one comes up to them and says "well, all lives matter". 

That's probably because the ones in blue are of all races. I guess people could say "criminals lives matter too" to them? I'm not saying that you deserve to die if you commit a crime, but I know that if I point a gun at an officer or go for his gun that there's a very good chance I'm going to die. 

No, it's because racism. People are perfectly happy to let lives other than black ones matter. That's literally the point. And the response to blue lives matter isn't criminal lives matter too, it's the constitution matters and the lives of all citizens matter. 

ei34

DrillSergeantCat said:

eileenrob said:

Not a fan of changing up the flag.  At least in my area, Blue Lives matter started when two NYPD officers were shot and killed in Brooklyn in December 2014 simply because they were cops.  It was a few months after the Eric Garner tragedy in NYC (and lots of cases of cops abusing their power around the country). 
My big eye roll with blue lives matter as a response to black lives matter is that a member of any race can choose to be a cop, whereas you're either born black or you're not.  It's ridiculous to use blue lives matter as a rally cry or a response because it's just not the same.  That being said, I greatly appreciate what the majority of police do for our society 24/7/365.

As usual, Jon Stewart gets it right:

You can also choose to be a criminal. I know that blacks are sentenced disproportionately to whites for the same crimes and I do not understand that, but studies I've read show that whites are actually shot and killed by the police more often than any other race. This is a media issue. 

There are more white people than black people in our country, so numerically it makes sense that more whites than blacks were killed.  Statistically, blacks are killed at a higher rate though.  I actually don't want to go down this road, but the point I was trying to make of choosing to be a cop was that at the end of a shift, a cop takes off his or her uniform and go into a restaurant and just be perceived as a civilian.  A black person is always black, and will always be perceived as such.

DrillSergeantCat

STARMOON44 said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

STARMOON44 said:

You've got to be fucking kidding me. That's ignorant racist bullshit. Whites should be shot and killed more often because there are way the hell a lot more of us. 

Why does that make me racist? I'm simply saying that it's not disproportionate like sentencing is.

Calling it a media issue is racist. 

Why? It is the media that is causing the divide. They only show what they want you to see. I cannot remember the name of the guy I'm thinking of (thanks pregnancy brain) but the pictures the media was showing showed an innocent looking kid where the pictures found on his own facebook were much more sinister.

STARMOON44

DrillSergeantCat said:

STARMOON44 said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

STARMOON44 said:

You've got to be fucking kidding me. That's ignorant racist bullshit. Whites should be shot and killed more often because there are way the hell a lot more of us. 

Why does that make me racist? I'm simply saying that it's not disproportionate like sentencing is.

Calling it a media issue is racist. 

Why? It is the media that is causing the divide. They only show what they want you to see. I cannot remember the name of the guy I'm thinking of (thanks pregnancy brain) but the pictures the media was showing showed an innocent looking kid where the pictures found on his own facebook were much more sinister.

No. It's generations of institutionalized racism resulting in impunity for police brutality that has existed, as a divide, since the founding of this nation. The media is only responsible for bringing it to your attention. 

DrillSergeantCat

STARMOON44 said:

No. It's generations of institutionalized racism resulting in impunity for police brutality that has existed, as a divide, since the founding of this nation. The media is only responsible for bringing it to your attention. 

Good point. I can freely admit that my white privilege is talking. I want to think that things are better than they were in the 50's, but I guess it's just more subtle today than burning crosses on lawns so it's easier to not see it. 

levioosa

DrillSergeantCat said:

STARMOON44 said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

STARMOON44 said:

You've got to be fucking kidding me. That's ignorant racist bullshit. Whites should be shot and killed more often because there are way the hell a lot more of us. 

Why does that make me racist? I'm simply saying that it's not disproportionate like sentencing is.

Calling it a media issue is racist. 

Why? It is the media that is causing the divide. They only show what they want you to see. I cannot remember the name of the guy I'm thinking of (thanks pregnancy brain) but the pictures the media was showing showed an innocent looking kid where the pictures found on his own facebook were much more sinister.

Really?  You are kidding, right?  Because the media tends to use "sinister" looking pictures of black men, whereas white men are portrayed as "clean" and "wholesome."  Just look at the Brock Turner case, where it took months for his actual mug shot to be released.  

Oh, and that "sinister" kid you are talking about...that was Trayvon Martin.  Who was shot merely because he was a black male walking home.  And the man who shot him got off, has bragged about it, and briefly even put the weapon he killed Trayvon on eBay to sell with the words "an American firearm icon." But yes, tell me again how the media "divides."

ei34

levioosa said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

STARMOON44 said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

STARMOON44 said:

You've got to be fucking kidding me. That's ignorant racist bullshit. Whites should be shot and killed more often because there are way the hell a lot more of us. 

Why does that make me racist? I'm simply saying that it's not disproportionate like sentencing is.

Calling it a media issue is racist. 

Why? It is the media that is causing the divide. They only show what they want you to see. I cannot remember the name of the guy I'm thinking of (thanks pregnancy brain) but the pictures the media was showing showed an innocent looking kid where the pictures found on his own facebook were much more sinister.

Really?  You are kidding, right?  Because the media tends to use "sinister" looking pictures of black men, whereas white men are portrayed as "clean" and "wholesome."  Just look at the Brock Turner case, where it took months for his actual mug shot to be released.  

Oh, and that "sinister" kid you are talking about...that was Trayvon Martin.  Who was shot merely because he was a black male walking home.  And the man who shot him got off, has bragged about it, and briefly even put the weapon he killed Trayvon on eBay to sell with the words "an American firearm icon." But yes, tell me again how the media "divides."

The sad but true visual 

DrillSergeantCat

levioosa said:

Really?  You are kidding, right?  Because the media tends to use "sinister" looking pictures of black men, whereas white men are portrayed as "clean" and "wholesome."  Just look at the Brock Turner case, where it took months for his actual mug shot to be released.  

Oh, and that "sinister" kid you are talking about...that was Trayvon Martin.  Who was shot merely because he was a black male walking home.  And the man who shot him got off, has bragged about it, and briefly even put the weapon he killed Trayvon on eBay to sell with the words "an American firearm icon." But yes, tell me again how the media "divides."

George Zimmerman was guilty as sin and should have gone to prison. I'm not sure it was Trayvon that I was thinking of but it could have been. I specifically remember there being a picture of a young kid, but was actually several years older and had pictures of himself with guns all over his facebook. Maybe it was Trayvon. I honestly cannot remember. 

Also a good point about Brock Turner and now this new Colorado University rapist. 

crowsgirl15

DrillSergeantCat said:

STARMOON44 said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

STARMOON44 said:

You've got to be fucking kidding me. That's ignorant racist bullshit. Whites should be shot and killed more often because there are way the hell a lot more of us. 

Why does that make me racist? I'm simply saying that it's not disproportionate like sentencing is.

Calling it a media issue is racist. 

Why? It is the media that is causing the divide. They only show what they want you to see. I cannot remember the name of the guy I'm thinking of (thanks pregnancy brain) but the pictures the media was showing showed an innocent looking kid where the pictures found on his own facebook were much more sinister.

That's faulty logic. The "media" (which is already a faulty premise, as media outlets are not one group that come together and decide what the "spin" will be) choosing to show a divide does not mean that the media caused a divide. You're telling me that if the media didn't show the tension between black people and police that the tension wouldn't exist? Because, I hate to break it to you...it existed a long time before "the media" finally decided to report on it.

crowsgirl15

DrillSergeantCat said:

STARMOON44 said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

STARMOON44 said:

You've got to be fucking kidding me. That's ignorant racist bullshit. Whites should be shot and killed more often because there are way the hell a lot more of us. 

Why does that make me racist? I'm simply saying that it's not disproportionate like sentencing is.

Calling it a media issue is racist. 

Why? It is the media that is causing the divide. They only show what they want you to see. I cannot remember the name of the guy I'm thinking of (thanks pregnancy brain) but the pictures the media was showing showed an innocent looking kid where the pictures found on his own facebook were much more sinister.

There's also a strong implication here (which I'm pretty sure is unconscious and not what you mean) that if a kid posed for more sinister-looking pictures, he is somehow more deserving of being shot than a more innocent-looking kid. If people would be less incensed by the shooting because the pictures on tv appear more sinister...that isn't creating a problem...that IS the problem.

ThisShamanluvsaMage

DrillSergeantCat

crowsgirl15 said:

There's also a strong implication here (which I'm pretty sure is unconscious and not what you mean) that if a kid posed for more sinister-looking pictures, he is somehow more deserving of being shot than a more innocent-looking kid. If people would be less incensed by the shooting because the pictures on tv appear more sinister...that isn't creating a problem...that IS the problem.

You're right, I don't mean it that way. 

crowsgirl15

DrillSergeantCat said:

crowsgirl15 said:

There's also a strong implication here (which I'm pretty sure is unconscious and not what you mean) that if a kid posed for more sinister-looking pictures, he is somehow more deserving of being shot than a more innocent-looking kid. If people would be less incensed by the shooting because the pictures on tv appear more sinister...that isn't creating a problem...that IS the problem.

You're right, I don't mean it that way. 

I didn't think so. But in that case, I'd really ask yourself: then why does it matter that CNN chose an "innocent-looking" picture rather than a "sinister-looking" picture?

southernbelle0915

@DrillSergeantCat - "blue lives matter" is a direct response to "black lives matter" and it is therefore just as insulting as "all lives matter".

No one in the BLM movement is saying ONLY black lives matter. Of course all lives matter. And blue lives have always mattered. The BLM movement isn't saying only black people matter (this really shouldn't even have to be said..). It's focus is on the killing of unarmed, innocent black people due to systematic racial oppression that has perpetuated the cycle of poverty and criminalizing black people since...well pre-slavery.

By denying that there is a problem with racism and singling out of black people in our country, you are part of the perpetuation of that problem.

P.S. I also think no one should mess around with the American flag. Everything @ShesSoCold said about that..

ETA: Plus and also...racism is not a media problem. It's not like systematic racism and oppression is some conspiracy theory all the media agencies teamed up and decided to perpetuate. They're finally addressing that racism is an issue. FINALLY! Maybe that makes white people uncomfortable... "well I couldn't POSSIBLY be racist!" If that's your take, Fox News is for you.