what do you think?

Viczaesar

RE the militarization of the police:

MCmeow

I also can't get over the fact that we pay the police's SALARIES through taxes. Including, of course, the Black and Brown people they target. They are supposed to protect and serve US. WE are supposed to be their bosses and should be able to hold them accountable and yet we're supposed to fear them?! In what other job do the bosses fear their employees?

monkeysip

MCmeow said:

I also can't get over the fact that we pay the police's SALARIES through taxes. Including, of course, the Black and Brown people they target. They are supposed to protect and serve US. WE are supposed to be their bosses and should be able to hold them accountable and yet we're supposed to fear them?! In what other job do the bosses fear their employees?

I'd be careful not to take this logic too far.  I can't tell you how infuriating it is when I hear people complain that they pay my salary as a teacher, so I should do what they want.

Yes, all teachers (including myself) should be held accountable.  No, you're NOT our "boss".  We're not the "boss" of police either.  

MCmeow

monkeysip said:

MCmeow said:

I also can't get over the fact that we pay the police's SALARIES through taxes. Including, of course, the Black and Brown people they target. They are supposed to protect and serve US. WE are supposed to be their bosses and should be able to hold them accountable and yet we're supposed to fear them?! In what other job do the bosses fear their employees?

I'd be careful not to take this logic too far.  I can't tell you how infuriating it is when I hear people complain that they pay my salary as a teacher, so I should do what they want.

Yes, all teachers (including myself) should be held accountable.  No, you're NOT our "boss".  We're not the "boss" of police either.  

Yeah I can see how that would be taking it too far. Especially if you were to think of "Boss" as someone who literally orders you around. I guess what I mean is, the nature of a cop's job is to protect their citizens, to protect and serve us, if we were to make it plain: without taxes (in our system) they wouldn't have a paycheck, without citizens to protect there would be no police. In a perfect world all police chiefs would be elected, and there would be more community based policing in which citizens get to raise their concerns against the police, and have more of a say in what happens when a cop breaks the law. So I admit "Boss" was the wrong word, but I do believe citizens should have a greater ability to influence what happens to an officer.

monkeysip

MCmeow said:

monkeysip said:

MCmeow said:

I also can't get over the fact that we pay the police's SALARIES through taxes. Including, of course, the Black and Brown people they target. They are supposed to protect and serve US. WE are supposed to be their bosses and should be able to hold them accountable and yet we're supposed to fear them?! In what other job do the bosses fear their employees?

I'd be careful not to take this logic too far.  I can't tell you how infuriating it is when I hear people complain that they pay my salary as a teacher, so I should do what they want.

Yes, all teachers (including myself) should be held accountable.  No, you're NOT our "boss".  We're not the "boss" of police either.  

Yeah I can see how that would be taking it too far. Especially if you were to think of "Boss" as someone who literally orders you around. I guess what I mean is, the nature of a cop's job is to protect their citizens, to protect and serve us, if we were to make it plain: without taxes (in our system) they wouldn't have a paycheck, without citizens to protect there would be no police. In a perfect world all police chiefs would be elected, and there would be more community based policing in which citizens get to raise their concerns against the police, and have more of a say in what happens when a cop breaks the law. So I admit "Boss" was the wrong word, but I do believe citizens should have a greater ability to influence what happens to an officer.

Yeah, in an ideal world I imagine this being more organic.  Like, the police should police neighborhoods they know well and can spend more time in (instead of being overworked and often assigned to really large areas, or assignments across a whole city).  Police should have the ability, time, and inclination to get to know the neighborhood people well for the benefit of both.  This would decrease the tension and fear on both sides and let police understand the problem a neighborhood is dealing with.  A lot of this comes down to how police forces have had to try to make do with little money.  Salaries go down, hours go up, and police are expected to cover a wider area.