Wedding Etiquette Forum

Plus One Drama at Small Venue

My fiance and I are getting married June 17 2017 at a small, but beautiful venue that we both love. We have a strict limit to invite 90 guests, this has meant being very particular about who can come, who can have a plus one etc.

When we started finalizing our plans, but after we had already selected our venue and finalized our guest list, my Step-mom asked if we could invite her widowed father, who lives out of state and I have only met once. I immediately said yes, readjusted our list and didn't really think of it since then. (It is also relevant that at this time my Dad offered to help us pay for our wedding).  

Yesterday as I was addressing save the dates, I get a text from my Step-mom saying the following "when you make dad's invite, could you pls make it for +1"

My immediate reaction was a little bit of annoyance because not only had she invited her father to my wedding, but now she was asking for another place in our limited guest list. Without thinking too hard about why she may have been asking, I politely informed her that our guest list was full, but I'd be happy to talk about it.

Fast forward to an hour later, she stops by and reminds me her father is elderly and she'd like her brother to come along on the trip to help out.  I immediately say yes of course, we can make it work then. Of course he can have a plus one.  I mention that our venue is very small and we were just thinking of space concerns.  She immediately begins to question our venue choice and since it's causing "so many problems" maybe we should rethink our venue (remember we are 8 month out from our wedding date and are about to send the save the dates, so this is not possible, plus we love our venue! and want to keep our wedding small).  

She then proceeds to tell us is very upset and hurt that she has to "justify" why she would ask for a plus one and she asks very little of us, and since Dad is helping pay for the wedding why would we not just pay for a larger venue ...etc etc.

At this point my fiance gets upset and want to defend me so he says "that's not fair", and she starts to storm out.  The fight escalates and she and my fiance a yelling at each other and I make the mistake of saying "calm down" which puts her over the edge and she leaves. (saying calm down to a person has never worked in the history of time)

Now I can't sleep, feel sick to my stomach and the excitement of sending out the save the dates, for what is supposed to be a happy day feels tainted...  

How should I proceed?  I feel like I should just apologize because it's not really worth the drama and I feel bad for not thinking about her father needing help travelling.  But I also feel wronged by her actions, especially towards my fiance.  Another dimension is this will be the first time her father has come to Minnesota since she married my father in 1998 and I think she's placing a lot of pressure on the event that really has nothing to do with me or my fiance.  

Thanks for any thoughts or help! 
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Re: Plus One Drama at Small Venue

  • Thanks!  I definitely planned on apologizing, but sometimes it helps to just write out what you're thinking (right or wrong) to get a better handle on it.  I definitely did not mean to be hurtful! 
  • Thanks!  I definitely planned on apologizing, but sometimes it helps to just write out what you're thinking (right or wrong) to get a better handle on it.  I definitely did not mean to be hurtful! 
    Everyone makes mistakes- it's good to recognise when you do. Could you please elaborate what you mean by careful with plus 1s? 

    Before you send your STDs, if you are close to the venue limit, it won't be comfortable. You may need to swap venues as it can't be perfect if 1-2 extras will send you over. 
  • Thanks!  I definitely planned on apologizing, but sometimes it helps to just write out what you're thinking (right or wrong) to get a better handle on it.  I definitely did not mean to be hurtful! 
    Everyone makes mistakes- it's good to recognise when you do. Could you please elaborate what you mean by careful with plus 1s? 

    Before you send your STDs, if you are close to the venue limit, it won't be comfortable. You may need to swap venues as it can't be perfect if 1-2 extras will send you over. 
    You also need to make sure you are counting you and FI, and your vendors in that count.  As someone who has been to a few weddings that were at/over capacity, it make for an uncomfortable time and puts a damper on dancing when the dance floor is the size of a postage stamp due to all of the tables and people.  


    image
  • basically anyone who is not in a relationship right now doesn't get a plus one.  I assume we'll get a few regrets, so if the 3 or 4 single people we're inviting start dating someone seriously before the wedding we can extend an invitation at that point. (all the singles are good friends with one another and many of my guests so I'm not worried about them feeling lonely).   

    I really am happy to have her father bring a companion, I just wasn't thinking for a minute and responded thoughtlessly.   Then the fight escalated quickly (quick tempers i guess) and it was all a mess
  • basically anyone who is not in a relationship right now doesn't get a plus one.  I assume we'll get a few regrets, so if the 3 or 4 single people we're inviting start dating someone seriously before the wedding we can extend an invitation at that point. (all the singles are good friends with one another and many of my guests so I'm not worried about them feeling lonely).   

    I really am happy to have her father bring a companion, I just wasn't thinking for a minute and responded thoughtlessly.   Then the fight escalated quickly (quick tempers i guess) and it was all a mess
    Assumptions like this are what cause some brides wedding-planning stress.  Counting on declines isn't a sound Plan B.  The fact that a one guest can cause a fight means that this venue doesn't work. 


  • Everyone of our friends that wasn't in a relationship when we were first planning the guest list ended up in a relationship before our day. That was an 'additional' 7 people. I was really glad I learned from this board to plan ahead for new SOs. I would have had room but it was better to just plan from the beginning that they would could have a SO.
  • lyndausvilyndausvi mod
    First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited November 2016
    ernursej said:
    Everyone of our friends that wasn't in a relationship when we were first planning the guest list ended up in a relationship before our day. That was an 'additional' 7 people. I was really glad I learned from this board to plan ahead for new SOs. I would have had room but it was better to just plan from the beginning that they would could have a SO.
    Yep.  

    The thing is if they are in a relationship you are covered.   

    If they are not, more room in your budget.

    I advise everyone to pad their guest list by 5-10% for the unexpected.  Older relative might need a caretaker, your 45 year old confirmed bachelor finally found the one.  If you are invited kids, babies come into the picture.  The farther your are out add maybe a little more.    Prepare for the worst case.  You will thank us later.






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
  • basically anyone who is not in a relationship right now doesn't get a plus one.  I assume we'll get a few regrets, so if the 3 or 4 single people we're inviting start dating someone seriously before the wedding we can extend an invitation at that point. (all the singles are good friends with one another and many of my guests so I'm not worried about them feeling lonely).   

    I really am happy to have her father bring a companion, I just wasn't thinking for a minute and responded thoughtlessly.   Then the fight escalated quickly (quick tempers i guess) and it was all a mess
    At a bare MINIMUM it needs to be everyone who considers themselves to be in a relationship at the time of invitations, not STDs. A lot can happen between now and when invites go out. 

    Also, did you count wait staff, caterers, you two, photog and DJ in your count? 

    My sister had 100% attendance at her wedding, that included travel to South Africa! 

    I definitely think you guys need a new venue. Venues at 100% are so, so uncomfortable! 


  • If you are already at capacity at your venue without even factoring in plus ones for your single guests, and you ended up having drama over one elderly guest coming with some sort of caretaker, this isn't the right venue for you. What if some of these people who are single get into relationships between now and your wedding? You can't turn around to someone and say, "Oh, you guys weren't already dating when save-the-dates went out? Sorry, your boyfriend/girlfriend isn't invited then!" 

    Even though 100% attendance at a wedding is unusual, you need to plan for everyone you invite to be there. Hoping/assuming that some people will decline is not going to end well.



    image
  • Yeah, I would either change your venue or cut down that list some, multiple reasons:

    - All SO (regardless of "seriousness" or length) MUST be included at the time of INVITES (6-8 weeks out).  There is absolutely no wiggle room here.
    - Capacities (typically a fire code) must include everyone that will be in the venue (you, FI, Photographer, DJs and catering staff).  Again there is no wiggle room here.
    - ALWAYS plan for 100% attendance to your event.  Many people here have had perfect attendance.
    - Any venue that has been at or near capacity has always been over crowded!!!  I have been to a few weddings like this and people always left these early or spent most of the time hanging out somewhere besides the reception...it sucks for everyone and is even more uncomfortable to bigger/less agile people who have a hard time squeezing and maneuvering through the tight spaces.
    - STD now=Invite later.  If you send someone a STD you are going to have to invite them...if you skip STDs (even for a few people) you can always cut them.  Things can change, so keep this in mind.

    This does not sound like the perfect venue to me.  If you are unable to accommodate just a few extra people you are too close to your capacity and guest comfort (both space and SO wise) is being sacrificed for vision.  Either change to a larger space or cut the list even more.

    I would absolutely have you and ESPECAILLY your FI apologize right away.  You had a moment and you acknowledged it, that happens...but your FI shouldn't have yelled at your mom and that needs addressed. 

  • Ditto what pretty much everyone else said.  You need more space.  A venue where one or two extra people causes a meltdown is the not the right one for you.  Your FI needs to stop yelling and apologize to your SM.

    I mean, everyone has their priorities, but it's hard to see how your "love" for this venue could trump the fact that you're already stressed out about numbers before the first STD--let alone invitations--have hit the mail.

  • Agreeing with PPs about space budgeting. We knew we wanted to invite all family (step mom of my FMIL included), so we budgeted for that first. Our families are huge, but all single cousins got counted with a plus one, just in case they all entered relationships before invites were sent out. I'm also inviting a couple elderly aunts (who will likely not come as it's out of state) with a plus one, as I know they would not like to travel alone. Same with single friends, even though they all know most of the other friends who will be attending. We're still on the fence about giving truly single guests a plus one, but we're covered budget & space wise if we decide to do that.

    If your venue can't accommodate even one or two extra people, it's going to be verrrrry tight and uncomfortable for your guests. Our venue can hold 250 plus people; we're inviting 180. 

    Your guests (especially if they're coming from out of state!) are sometimes making a big effort to come celebrate YOU, please make sure they are comfortable and hosted properly.
  • Agreed with PPs about apologizing to your SM, but I also think your FI should be in on that. However that escalated he shouldn't be yelling at her (and she shouldn't be yelling at him, if that happened as well). 

    Advice on STDs. Don't include the venue name or location, just include the city, state, and date. I get that you love this venue, but if there are already issues of space, you may want to rethink this. I picked a venue before our list was finalized (well, no my mother kept adding people after the list was finalized, but that's a story for another time..) and we had room for everyone, but I couldn't do stations like I wanted to, had to have a sit down meal, because we wouldn't have enough room. It turned out fine in the end, but I wish that I knew then that being at room capacity (with DJs, photobooth, vendors, etc.) would feel too packed. 
  • If you're going to change venues OP, you need to do it now.

    The longer you wait the less likely it will be that you can find a venue that's free on your date- June is a popular month for weddings, and you will incur major financial penalties for breaking your contract the closer you get to your wedding date.

    Check your contract, but right now you may only loose your deposit.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • Also wanted to add, that if the venue tells you it can hold 90 guests with tables set up for dinner, that maximum is usually pretty cramped. It means full tables, and likely tables set up on the dance floor that have to be moved after dinner.

    Myself, I dislike tables set up on the dance floor that have to be moved- guests shouldn't have to give up their seat so others can dance. Our venue told us the room could hold 120 and I must have made a funny face because I couldn't see how, and the coordinator said, "Yeah, it's squishy, but we make it work". We invited 112, ended up with 72 guests including ourselves, DJ and 2 photos. We had 10 guest tables. It was perfect in terms of space. Our tables weren't full (which would have been 10 guests per table), and we didn't have anything set up on the dance floor that needed to be moved.
  • SP29 said:
    She/he who pays, gets a say. Thus, if your father is paying for the wedding, he gets a say in aspects such as venue, food, bar, guest list. Had you previously discussed the guest list, or was this 90 person guest list created by you and your FI?

    No one is owed an invitation to your wedding. And I do think that it is not OK, even if they are paying, for your dad and his wife to keep adding guests after the guest list is set.... BUT your dad's wife's father sounds like a pretty important person. How was he not included in the original guest list? Makes me wonder if you did discuss the guest list with them, at the very least to say, "Is there anyone you would like to see invited?".

    As for your step mom, call her up and apologize. It was an oversight and of course her dad and guest are welcome to attend. FI should also apologize.

    Step mom does have a point that if the venue is causing stress 8 months out from the wedding, maybe it isn't the best venue.

    The rule is that ANYONE is a relationship at the time invitations are sent (NOT STDs) must be invited with their significant other. So right now you should be putting a place holder guest beside those 4 single guest you have and include that in your guest list. If they aren't in relationships, great, but if they are, you need to be prepared to invite them.

    As per the capacity of the venue, is this the fire capacity or how many the room can hold with tables set up? Venues will list different capacities if it's a standing cocktail reception versus dinner versus dinner with dance floor, but a fire code is absolute regardless of set up. Your vendors (photog, DJ) also count towards this maximum. If you are already at your 90 person guest list with no wiggle room, this venue really isn't perfect, or your guest list should really be set at 70-80 guests, which will allow for last minute additions.

    You *can* change your venue now if you need to, minus losing some deposits. The STD only needs to include who is getting married, the date and city, it does not need to include the venue name. Please all realize that anyone receiving a STD MUST be invited to the wedding, so it is best to keep your STDs for VIPs only; once invitations are sent, the guest list is final, but you still have time to adjust your guest list until that happens.
    Meh. I disagree on that point. Depending on when dad and SM got married, OP may not have any type of relationship with SM's dad at all. By this logic, I should have invited my SD's kids even though I've only met 2 of the 3 of them once.
  • SP29 said:
    She/he who pays, gets a say. Thus, if your father is paying for the wedding, he gets a say in aspects such as venue, food, bar, guest list. Had you previously discussed the guest list, or was this 90 person guest list created by you and your FI?

    No one is owed an invitation to your wedding. And I do think that it is not OK, even if they are paying, for your dad and his wife to keep adding guests after the guest list is set.... BUT your dad's wife's father sounds like a pretty important person. How was he not included in the original guest list? Makes me wonder if you did discuss the guest list with them, at the very least to say, "Is there anyone you would like to see invited?".

    As for your step mom, call her up and apologize. It was an oversight and of course her dad and guest are welcome to attend. FI should also apologize.

    Step mom does have a point that if the venue is causing stress 8 months out from the wedding, maybe it isn't the best venue.

    The rule is that ANYONE is a relationship at the time invitations are sent (NOT STDs) must be invited with their significant other. So right now you should be putting a place holder guest beside those 4 single guest you have and include that in your guest list. If they aren't in relationships, great, but if they are, you need to be prepared to invite them.

    As per the capacity of the venue, is this the fire capacity or how many the room can hold with tables set up? Venues will list different capacities if it's a standing cocktail reception versus dinner versus dinner with dance floor, but a fire code is absolute regardless of set up. Your vendors (photog, DJ) also count towards this maximum. If you are already at your 90 person guest list with no wiggle room, this venue really isn't perfect, or your guest list should really be set at 70-80 guests, which will allow for last minute additions.

    You *can* change your venue now if you need to, minus losing some deposits. The STD only needs to include who is getting married, the date and city, it does not need to include the venue name. Please all realize that anyone receiving a STD MUST be invited to the wedding, so it is best to keep your STDs for VIPs only; once invitations are sent, the guest list is final, but you still have time to adjust your guest list until that happens.
    Meh. I disagree on that point. Depending on when dad and SM got married, OP may not have any type of relationship with SM's dad at all. By this logic, I should have invited my SD's kids even though I've only met 2 of the 3 of them once.
    If your SD was paying for a significant potion of your wedding and asked to invite his kids, you're damn right you should invite them, regardless of how many times you met them. 
  • edited November 2016
    If your SD was paying for a significant potion of your wedding and asked to invite his kids, you're damn right you should invite them, regardless of how many times you met them. 
    I'm just disagreeing with the statement that he's an important person. I paid for my own wedding and I still asked my mom if there was anyone she wanted to invite.

    eta - it also appears that at the time the guest list was discussed dad hadn't offered to help pay. It seems that came later but before SM asked if she could bring her dad.
  • edited November 2016
    I have a fear of having too small a venue. Mine holds approximately 500. I've invited slightly over 200 and I need the additional space for uninvited guests that are likely to turn up. In african/caribbean culture, it is normal for MANY more people to turn up than is actually invited. Basically guests bring people with them. My Nigerian friend recently got married, he invited 300 and 500 people turned up. To OP: It's always better to have a little extra room because it reduces the stress for you.
  • Raven said:
    I have a fear of having too small a venue. Mine holds approximately 500. I've invited slightly over 200 and I need the additional space for uninvited guests that are likely to turn up. In african/caribbean culture, it is normal for MANY more people to turn up than is actually invited. Basically guests bring people with them. My Nigerian friend recently got married, he invited 300 and 500 people turned up. To OP: It's always better to have a little extra room because it reduces the stress for you.
    Where do the uninvited sit and what do they eat?  You obviously wouldn't set out enough tables for double the guests or order double the food.  Or do you?
  • edited November 2016
    Copied text
  • SP29 said:
    She/he who pays, gets a say. Thus, if your father is paying for the wedding, he gets a say in aspects such as venue, food, bar, guest list. Had you previously discussed the guest list, or was this 90 person guest list created by you and your FI?

    No one is owed an invitation to your wedding. And I do think that it is not OK, even if they are paying, for your dad and his wife to keep adding guests after the guest list is set.... BUT your dad's wife's father sounds like a pretty important person. How was he not included in the original guest list? Makes me wonder if you did discuss the guest list with them, at the very least to say, "Is there anyone you would like to see invited?".

    As for your step mom, call her up and apologize. It was an oversight and of course her dad and guest are welcome to attend. FI should also apologize.

    Step mom does have a point that if the venue is causing stress 8 months out from the wedding, maybe it isn't the best venue.

    The rule is that ANYONE is a relationship at the time invitations are sent (NOT STDs) must be invited with their significant other. So right now you should be putting a place holder guest beside those 4 single guest you have and include that in your guest list. If they aren't in relationships, great, but if they are, you need to be prepared to invite them.

    As per the capacity of the venue, is this the fire capacity or how many the room can hold with tables set up? Venues will list different capacities if it's a standing cocktail reception versus dinner versus dinner with dance floor, but a fire code is absolute regardless of set up. Your vendors (photog, DJ) also count towards this maximum. If you are already at your 90 person guest list with no wiggle room, this venue really isn't perfect, or your guest list should really be set at 70-80 guests, which will allow for last minute additions.

    You *can* change your venue now if you need to, minus losing some deposits. The STD only needs to include who is getting married, the date and city, it does not need to include the venue name. Please all realize that anyone receiving a STD MUST be invited to the wedding, so it is best to keep your STDs for VIPs only; once invitations are sent, the guest list is final, but you still have time to adjust your guest list until that happens.
    Meh. I disagree on that point. Depending on when dad and SM got married, OP may not have any type of relationship with SM's dad at all. By this logic, I should have invited my SD's kids even though I've only met 2 of the 3 of them once.
    I meant that SM's dad is important to her. Since Dad is paying for the OP's wedding (though I was confused as to when this actually took place), it seems SM's dad should have been on the guest list in the first place. Sounds like OP didn't discuss the guest list with Dad at all.

    Otherwise I agree with you. I would still ask my parents as a courtesy if there is anyone they'd like to see invited. My dad started dating his now wife about 6 months before my wedding. I had never met any of her family (including her sister whom she is very close with, nor her children), thus I did not invite them. I did however ask my Dad who he wanted to see invited to the wedding, and none of her family was on the list.


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