parents hurt my dad isn't officiating Catholic wedding?

doodlebug72

Hi guys, I'm dealing with a kind of funky problem that I haven't been able to find any information about (could I be the first?) A little backstory, I was raised Lutheran (I'm a pastor's daughter) but my fiance was raised Catholic. We met while we were in college and while I was in the process of converting from Lutheranism to Catholicism. I will "fully convert" or officially become Catholic this spring, and we're getting married this summer.  When we got engaged we both agreed together to get married in the church in our college town which is very special to us as it was where we met, where he was raised, and where I came into the Catholic faith. Of course, being a pastor's kid this has caused a lot of hurt for my parents. I think they both feel that this is the final nail in the coffin of "losing" their daughter, and they have said multiple times this wedding will be humiliating and sad for them and that while they will attend they will not be happy about it. From my perspective, as two Catholics it doesn't make a lot of sense to have a Lutheran wedding in my hometown (and we would need to get a dispensation to do it) and having it 500 miles away will help mitigate the scandal for my father. I have tried to explain to my parents that I am not trying to personally spurn them or their faith, but this is something as an adult that we have decided to share together. I have considered asking my dad to have a part in the service, but I am worried this will feel like pity and will be even more insulting. I am completely unsure of what to do at this point. Are we being cruel to want to have our wedding at the Catholic church? Do we compromise the one thing that is really important to us with this wedding and just have a Lutheran wedding at my dad's church, or do we stand our ground and do what we would prefer?

flantastic

knottie95d115971df9c00d said:

Hi guys, I'm dealing with a kind of funky problem that I haven't been able to find any information about (could I be the first?) A little backstory, I was raised Lutheran (I'm a pastor's daughter) but my fiance was raised Catholic. We met while we were in college and while I was in the process of converting from Lutheranism to Catholicism. I will "fully convert" or officially become Catholic this spring, and we're getting married this summer.  When we got engaged we both agreed together to get married in the church in our college town which is very special to us as it was where we met, where he was raised, and where I came into the Catholic faith. Of course, being a pastor's kid this has caused a lot of hurt for my parents. I think they both feel that this is the final nail in the coffin of "losing" their daughter, and they have said multiple times this wedding will be humiliating and sad for them and that while they will attend they will not be happy about it. From my perspective, as two Catholics it doesn't make a lot of sense to have a Lutheran wedding in my hometown (and we would need to get a dispensation to do it) and having it 500 miles away will help mitigate the scandal for my father. I have tried to explain to my parents that I am not trying to personally spurn them or their faith, but this is something as an adult that we have decided to share together. I have considered asking my dad to have a part in the service, but I am worried this will feel like pity and will be even more insulting. I am completely unsure of what to do at this point. Are we being cruel to want to have our wedding at the Catholic church? Do we compromise the one thing that is really important to us with this wedding and just have a Lutheran wedding at my dad's church, or do we stand our ground and do what we would prefer?

Congrats on RCIA! I have a very good friend whose father is a Lutheran minister, and this friend converted to Catholicism as well before his Catholic wedding to a Catholic woman. And yes, it was hard for his family. I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

I don't think you'd get a dispensation for your father's feelings, honestly, so that kind of takes that decision out of your hands. The only time I've heard of a dispensation being given was when the groom himself was actively hostile to the Church (but he still had to agree to let his wife raise his children Catholic).

I'd ask the priest what is possible for your father to do, and then ask him if he's interested in doing it, but that you understand if he isn't. He may say no. Just be gracious the whole way. You seem like you're doing a great job with that already.

ETA: paging @ILoveBeachMusic for the parent perspective

Casadena

Congratulations on your RCIA process!

I agree with everything @flantastic recommended.  I'm sure this is hard for your parents and i think you've been handling it very well so far.  In my experience as well, I don't think anything about your situation would allow a dispensation and I think you should proceed with planning the Catholic wedding in your college town at the church that is important to you. 

I don't have a ton of advice for managing your parents feelings above and beyond what was already recommended. I think asking the priest what your father could do (if anything) would be a nice idea and then ask if he would want to do that.  If he can't help with mass he could always do the readings and/or the prayers of the faithful.  He could maybe help you pick the readings?  

Good luck with everything!

banana468

I agree with everything @flantastic said.  The ceremony is yours and it should be in your faith as you both discussed.  

I think the advice received thus far is great. Is your priest understanding of this concern and navigating it with parents?  That's also incredibly helpful if the priest himself is understanding of your situation especially as the child of a Lutheran pastor. 

doodlebug72

Thank you all for your encouragement and advice! I guess I just needed some affirmation that I'm not a monster for not getting married in my dad's church. I feel badly to have hurt and angered my parents and I wish there was something I could do to smooth things over-- he hasn't really spoken to me in about a month and every conversation I have with my mom always turns into a fight about this.

FI and I have tossed around the idea of having a witnesses only ceremony instead if we can't include my parents without everyone being miserable; it's not what I would want but if it comes to that I suppose it is at least an option. I haven't been able to talk to my priest yet, but I am hoping that I will be able to next week; I think he will be sympathetic-- he's an Anglican convert himself. I think the idea of having my dad do the readings or the prayers might be a nice gesture if nothing else. 

short+sassy

I agree with the other PPs, especially about ways your father can be involved in the ceremony (if he chooses to be).  You and your FI should definitely stand firm on getting married in the Catholic church that is important to the two of you.

While not quite the same scenario, I was also raised Lutheran and went to the same church through my early 20s, until I moved out of state.  My parents got married in that church and were always heavily involved in it.  I ALWAYS pictured getting married there!  But I didn't.

My H and I even went back to my hometown to get married and I still chose not to.  Even though I felt a strong tie to that church, logistically, it didn't make sense for a couple reasons.  We did have the pastor from that church officiate, but in an outdoor secular ceremony.

ILoveBeachMusic

Lol @flantastic, here is the Lutheran parental view. For background my family is Lutheran. DD converted to Catholicism after college and before she met her H. They got married in a Catholic mass in a Catholic church. I was not happy when she converted. We had several conversations about my issues with her converting, but I finally decided we would just agree to disagree. Fast forward several years to their wedding. I never told her we wouldn't attend her wedding; however, I wouldn't go forward for a blessing during communion. I never go forward at communion when we attend church with her nor did I when DS1 & 2 attended a Catholic high school. She wasn't pleased with me about that. The priest insisted that the wedding party come forward (half of her party was protestant). He gave me the side eye when I didn't go forward. Before the boys were born, I told her I probably wouldn't attend their baptism since it wasn't a milestone for us but that changed and I attended. With all that being said, I wouldn't exclude your parents from the ceremony OP. They may change their mind about attending. If you don't include them, they don't have the option of changing their mind.  Let them make the decision. As for your father participating, I'm inclined to advise against that. DD wanted my cousin who is a retired minister to do a blessing at her ceremony. I personally know that he and his immediate family have some of the same issues with the Catholic church that I have. I thought he might either refuse or do it because he felt obligated ( he is DD's godfather and the minister that married H and me). I told her this and she decided not to ask him. OP, I hope that by the time your wedding comes around, your parents have come to peace with their feelings about your conversion and marriage. Oh and no you aren't a monster for not getting married in your father's church.

charlotte989875

My sister was raised Lutheran and her AJ is catholic- they married in his church. One of the their good friends is a minister and he did a reading & some other part of the ceremony (sorry I’m not catholic so I don’t know what part it was!) but they worked together and it was beautiful. 

I hope your parents can see that you conversion isn’t about them, but about you and your family. Don’t change your plans or do a wedding that doesn’t feel authentic to you to placate their feelings. Ask your priest if/how your Dad can be involved and then ask him (if you want him to) if he’d like to. Let him decide if he wants to or not, try not to anticipate or make that decision for him. 

Good luck! I’m sorry your parents are making this about them instead of you and your husband. 

short+sassy

ILoveBeachMusic said:

Lol @flantastic, here is the Lutheran parental view. For background my family is Lutheran. DD converted to Catholicism after college and before she met her H. They got married in a Catholic mass in a Catholic church. I was not happy when she converted. We had several conversations about my issues with her converting, but I finally decided we would just agree to disagree. Fast forward several years to their wedding. I never told her we wouldn't attend her wedding; however, I wouldn't go forward for a blessing during communion. I never go forward at communion when we attend church with her nor did I when DS1 & 2 attended a Catholic high school. She wasn't pleased with me about that. The priest insisted that the wedding party come forward (half of her party was protestant). He gave me the side eye when I didn't go forward. Before the boys were born, I told her I probably wouldn't attend their baptism since it wasn't a milestone for us but that changed and I attended. With all that being said, I wouldn't exclude your parents from the ceremony OP. They may change their mind about attending. If you don't include them, they don't have the option of changing their mind.  Let them make the decision. As for your father participating, I'm inclined to advise against that. DD wanted my cousin who is a retired minister to do a blessing at her ceremony. I personally know that he and his immediate family have some of the same issues with the Catholic church that I have. I thought he might either refuse or do it because he felt obligated ( he is DD's godfather and the minister that married H and me). I told her this and she decided not to ask him. OP, I hope that by the time your wedding comes around, your parents have come to peace with their feelings about your conversion and marriage. Oh and no you aren't a monster for not getting married in your father's church.

That would really chafe my hide!  Like, "I'm being respectful that I am not allowed to take communion in a Catholic church, per CATHOLIC doctrine.  That's fine.  But don't expect me to come up for a blessing either."

I had an ex b/f who I dated for two years.  He and his mother were Catholic and I would occasionally go to church with them.  She always seemed really insulted that I would not go up for communion.  I wasn't comfortable going up for a blessing either, because I didn't want to be the weirdo in the quick line trying to explain on the fly, "Nope, Father.  Blessing Only.  Not Catholic."  I told her over and over that, it wasn't my choice, it's that I am not allowed to per the Catholic church.  About one year into the relationship, she asked me some questions about "my religion".  Turns out, she thought all Christians were Catholics and that all the Protestant sects were a totally different religion!  It was an "ah ha" moment as I realized what a truly fruitless and uphill battle I'd been waging that whole time, lol. 

ILoveBeachMusic

@short+sassy that is exactly how I feel about going up for communion. TBH, when we have been at church with them there are always other people who don't go forward so it isn't like we are the only ones. DD doesn't agree with my reasoning for not going forward, but as I said I agree to disagree. It really hasn't been a topic of conversation for years.

banana468

It's interesting to see those who wouldn't go up for the blessing.  In family weddings it's often stated, "If you are not Catholic you are welcome to come up to the altar with your arms crossed and hands at your shoulders for a blessing."  

However I have to respect those who opt out as a sign of respect as well.  

ILoveBeachMusic

That is what the priest said at DD's wedding and what the priest at their church says. They are two different people due to their priest being out of town the day of the wedding. I have no problem with other people going up for a blessing - many did- but I have my reasons so they need to be respected too, as you do.

flantastic

There are priests who don't even particularly like the blessing thing - i.e. if you're not going to receive communion, just stay in the pew and pray, it's fine. If you want to be blessed there are times and places for that and it doesn't have to be now.

I think it became a thing for two reasons - 1) We did want to offer something to those who cannot receive communion but would like to receive grace in some way, 2) it's awkward to climb over the people who aren't going up to communion in the pew lol

ETA - in short, that priest was wrong in all sorts of ways

ILoveBeachMusic

flantastic said:

There are priests who don't even particularly like the blessing thing - i.e. if you're not going to receive communion, just stay in the pew and pray, it's fine. If you want to be blessed there are times and places for that and it doesn't have to be now.

I think it became a thing for two reasons - 1) We did want to offer something to those who cannot receive communion but would like to receive grace in some way, 2) it's awkward to climb over the people who aren't going up to communion in the pew lol

ETA - in short, that priest was wrong in all sorts of ways

I always walk out of the pew and take a step back so people don't have to crawl over me. Usually it is just our family in the pew, though.

When DD was engaged, I read a lot of the posts on the Catholic board which was much more active back then. I wanted to understand as much as I could. One frequent poster sent me a papal edict (not sure if that is the correct word), at my request,  that stated that the blessing was actually meant for Catholics who weren't able receive communion for whatever reason and not for non-Catholics. I can't remember which Pope issued it. That kind of validated my reasoning for staying in the pew. 

MesmrEwe

My SIL is Catholic, my BIL was born & raised Lutheran with his Dad a Lutheran Minister - he was actively involved in their wedding and in all of my niece and nephew's sacramental lives as a concelebrant.  Talk to your priest about this as the only area that is extremely particular is who receives the vows is who officially marries you in the eyes of the church.  Some are friendlier to having concelebrants than others, so the conversation starts with your priest...

There are some particularly good explanations on Busted Halo's site in regard to some of the intricacies in an easy to understand format, but chances are if you talk to the priest marrying you they may also have some suggestions.  

maine7mob

I'm the mother of a Catholic convert. I do get that your parents are baffled by your decision, but at some point, they will need to fully accept that you followed your conscience and that a Christian is a Christian, regardless of denomination. 

Although I often have theological disagreements with my daughter, I was fine with her Catholic wedding. But your dad, because he is a pastor, may regard your conversion as a "failure" on his part. He might think he failed to teach you "correct" theology or that you rejected him as well as his faith. I don't know. 

But if I were you, I would keep reaching out to him privately. Reassure him that the essentials are the same (the virgin birth, the divinity of Christ, the resurrection) in case he is worried about your soul. And then tell him that you would be honored if he would participate in your wedding in some way. You should find out from your priest what is allowed before you suggest anything, though. There may be some roles allowed only for Catholics in good standing.

maine7mob

@ILoveBeachMusic I didn't realize you and I had this in common. I'm not Lutheran, but had a similar reaction when my daughter converted in college. Part of me was thrilled that she hadn't given up on faith because she was considering that. Another part of me was just sad. And I have a similar stance on Communion. I won't go up for the blessing, not to be stubborn, but because as a practicing Christian, I know I am entitled to fully participate, even though the Catholic church disagrees. My daughter is fine with this and doesn't give me a hard time when I attend Mass with her.

short+sassy

banana468 said:

It's interesting to see those who wouldn't go up for the blessing.  In family weddings it's often stated, "If you are not Catholic you are welcome to come up to the altar with your arms crossed and hands at your shoulders for a blessing."  

However I have to respect those who opt out as a sign of respect as well.  

I can't really speak for wedding masses, as I have only been to one (the priest did not do that).  But I've been to mass at a number of Catholic churches and have never heard a priest say anything like that.  If they did describe a "signal", I'd be a lot more inclined.  But, otherwise, it just feels too awkward to me, so I don't participate.

At the Lutheran church I grew up in, for special services like Easter and Christmas...that might have a lot of people who don't normally attend our church...the pastor would invite "anyone who believes in God, the Holy Spirit, and that Jesus is our savior" (something like that) to participate in communion.  He would also describe the "signal" if someone would prefer a blessing.  But, for typical Sunday services, all of that usually wasn't mentioned. 

flantastic

short+sassy said:

banana468 said:

It's interesting to see those who wouldn't go up for the blessing.  In family weddings it's often stated, "If you are not Catholic you are welcome to come up to the altar with your arms crossed and hands at your shoulders for a blessing."  

However I have to respect those who opt out as a sign of respect as well.  

I can't really speak for wedding masses, as I have only been to one (the priest did not do that).  But I've been to mass at a number of Catholic churches and have never heard a priest say anything like that.  If they did describe a "signal", I'd be a lot more inclined.  But, otherwise, it just feels too awkward to me, so I don't participate.

At the Lutheran church I grew up in, for special services like Easter and Christmas...that might have a lot of people who don't normally attend our church...the pastor would invite "anyone who believes in God, the Holy Spirit, and that Jesus is our savior" (something like that) to participate in communion.  He would also describe the "signal" if someone would prefer a blessing.  But, for typical Sunday services, all of that usually wasn't mentioned. 

I think wedding Masses and funeral Masses are the primary places this announcement might be made, just because that's really the only time where you expect there to potentially be a significant number of non-Catholics at Mass.

Also, to clarify, we believe that anyone who is baptized is a part of the Church at large, and is therefore welcome to celebrate and offer Mass with us. If we also believed, like the church you attended, @short+sassy, that Communion was just a symbol of our communion together and the presence of Christ spiritually in our midst, then it would make sense to invite everyone to participate.

However, since Catholics believe it's the true actual Body and Blood of Christ, anyone who doesn't believe that would be receiving Him rather disrespectfully. Which is why we don't offer. I get that if @maine7mob believes it must be just a symbolic thing in the Catholic Church too, (i.e., we're wrong about the true character of the sacrament), she would think there's no harm in receiving it, or even that she deserves to. But we do think there is harm, so I appreciate everyone who is respectful about not.

ILoveBeachMusic

@flantastic, the Lutheran church which I assume you are referring to from S&S remarks, does not consider communion a symbol. Transubstantiation vs. consubstantiation, I'm sure with your background you are aware of the difference - one of the major differences between the Roman Catholic Church and the Lutheran denomination. I just wanted to clarify for those who aren't familiar with the difference. I was raised Baptist, which does consider communion symbolic. I converted when I married H whose family has been Lutheran for generations.

DD's church in Chicago would mention non-Catholics receiving a blessing at every service we have attended. It is interesting that in your experience it has been mostly at Wedding and Funeral masses.

maine7mob

@flantastic, that is why I respect their rules and don't go up.

Also, a theological discussion is a hell of a lot better topic than politics these days.

MesmrEwe

maine7mob said:

@flantastic, that is why I respect their rules and don't go up.

Also, a theological discussion is a hell of a lot better topic than politics these days.