Wedding Party

Help! I want to cancel the whole bridal party!

I have been struggling with wedding planning in general. It's not something I'm good at, I get overwhelmed very quickly, and I'm not good at visualizing things. I'd had my bridesmaids selected long ago and was excited to ask them to be part of mine and my fiancé's special day. To say it has not gone well is a slight understatement....


I've opted for no pre-wedding shenanigans. No engagement party. No bridal shower. No Bachelorette. Nada. That's just more planning and expenses I don't want to incur or have others incur. A single wedding day is more than enough. All I've asked my bridesmaids for is their presence and opinions on dress shopping. Both for myself and themselves. This seems to still be too much to ask and has been where things have just given me more stress than happiness.


Being the faulty people pleaser I am, I attempted every single time to ask the girls what their schedule allowed for appointments. Multiple times appointments were made (whether truly with the bridal store or just between us) and every single time something went wrong. From forgetting previous engagements to sick family members, not one single appointment has gone as planned. And not one single time did I get really much sympathy or an apology. I feel selfish saying that but I honestly planned all of this around the others for it to be their fault it didn't happen....


So after the 4th time, I've basically decided that I can't do this anymore. Fiance is already struggling to find groomsmen and hasn't asked anyone yet. So we decided forget it! There's no law requiring us to have a wedding party to be married. Now on to the problem... I still have to let the girls down. I feel intense guilt and fear their reactions. I was planning to keep it very focused on myself and my fiance and not bring up anything that I've been hurt by. State that I love them both so much and want nothing more than for them to still be there on our day, but that the stress of planning has really led us to feel this is the best choice for us.


What other suggestions might you have to help this go smoothly? I expect some silence from them for a while and that this could forever change our relationship. Which would kill me because they're my best friends and have been for nearly 14 years. We're all in such different places in our lives that I feel like if I were getting married 1 year ago or 1 year after my upcoming date, it would actually be different. Right now is just not right it seems.

Re: Help! I want to cancel the whole bridal party!

  • ILoveBeachMusicILoveBeachMusic Indiana member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    Your bridal party isn't expected to do anything except stand up with you at your wedding. Expecting them to go dress shopping with you isn't correct. If they offered to do that, great but saying you expect them to do so is wrong. Also, sides don't have to be even so just because your FI doesn't have a bridal party  doesn't mean you shouldn't. However, I realize that isn't your issue. 

    It could very well impact your relationship with your friends if you tell them you don't want them to be in your wedding. However, if you tell them that your FI has decided not to have attendants so you have decided the same, it might go over better. You should definitely not mention the dress appointments being the reason. I personally think that asking someone not to be in your wedding because they wouldn't go dress shopping with you is pretty shallow. If these are your best friends, you should be happy they are going to stand up with you.
  • climbingsingleclimbingsingle NYC 'burbs member
    Eighth Anniversary 10000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    Your bridesmaids aren't required to go dress shopping with you. You need to adjust your expectations here. As a PP said, sides don't need to be even. I'm not sure why your FI is struggling to find people, but he should pick the people he considers closest to him. That can be friends or relatives. And sides don't need to be even. 

    Removing them from your wedding will almost certainly change your friendships with them, if not completely end them. Be prepared for that. Are you really willing to end these friendships because they didn't go look at dresses? 
    banana468
  • MyNameIsNotMyNameIsNot Atlanta member
    Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    I have been struggling with wedding planning in general. It's not something I'm good at, I get overwhelmed very quickly, and I'm not good at visualizing things. I'd had my bridesmaids selected long ago and was excited to ask them to be part of mine and my fiancé's special day. To say it has not gone well is a slight understatement....


    I've opted for no pre-wedding shenanigans. No engagement party. No bridal shower. No Bachelorette. Nada. That's just more planning and expenses I don't want to incur or have others incur. A single wedding day is more than enough. All I've asked my bridesmaids for is their presence and opinions on dress shopping. Both for myself and themselves. This seems to still be too much to ask and has been where things have just given me more stress than happiness.


    Being the faulty people pleaser I am, I attempted every single time to ask the girls what their schedule allowed for appointments. Multiple times appointments were made (whether truly with the bridal store or just between us) and every single time something went wrong. From forgetting previous engagements to sick family members, not one single appointment has gone as planned. And not one single time did I get really much sympathy or an apology. I feel selfish saying that but I honestly planned all of this around the others for it to be their fault it didn't happen....


    So after the 4th time, I've basically decided that I can't do this anymore. Fiance is already struggling to find groomsmen and hasn't asked anyone yet. So we decided forget it! There's no law requiring us to have a wedding party to be married. Now on to the problem... I still have to let the girls down. I feel intense guilt and fear their reactions. I was planning to keep it very focused on myself and my fiance and not bring up anything that I've been hurt by. State that I love them both so much and want nothing more than for them to still be there on our day, but that the stress of planning has really led us to feel this is the best choice for us.


    What other suggestions might you have to help this go smoothly? I expect some silence from them for a while and that this could forever change our relationship. Which would kill me because they're my best friends and have been for nearly 14 years. We're all in such different places in our lives that I feel like if I were getting married 1 year ago or 1 year after my upcoming date, it would actually be different. Right now is just not right it seems.
    You're right, kicking them out of the wedding may forever change your relationship with them. There's no magic words or way of saying this that is going to change that. Are you really willing to do that because a group dress shopping event didn't work out? 

    Honestly, it sounds like you're throwing a tantrum about them not making it, and it's not even that they refused to go, but had other obligations and sicknesses come up! I get being disappointed that this dress shopping entourage didn't come together, but that's not really the way it happens in real life most of the time. Most brides shop alone or with one other person (often a mom). For their dresses, you can just give them a color and let them shop for their own. 

    If you're really willing to ruin friendships over this, go for it, but it seems like a huge over-reaction.
  • I don't think either of you are understanding. I'm pretty much asking only for them to help with their own dress shopping even and can't get an honest opinion out of them or their attendance. I've bent over backwards to make the appointments about them and work around their schedules because I know their lives are far more busy than my own. I've constantly said please tell me what works for you because it means a lot to me to have you there and have you comfortable in you dress. I'm met with oh I can do this date/time then 2 days later oh shoot no I can't. FOUR TIMES. I delayed picking out my own dress because I wanted them there only to have to then cancel and reschedule the appointment because they forgot something else was going on that original date they told me they were free. It's not like I said hey be available tomorrow. It was hey when are you available in the next 30 days.


    If you think I'm shallow for feeling like I've asked someone multiple times for their availability schedule and opinions only to be basically pushed to the side each and every time, then yes I'm shallow. It's hurtful to feel like I've cared so much about wanting them to be a part of these only pre-wedding pieces to do it all around their schedules to only be let down every single time over the last 3 months.
  • climbingsingleclimbingsingle NYC 'burbs member
    Eighth Anniversary 10000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    I don't think either of you are understanding. I'm pretty much asking only for them to help with their own dress shopping even and can't get an honest opinion out of them or their attendance. I've bent over backwards to make the appointments about them and work around their schedules because I know their lives are far more busy than my own. I've constantly said please tell me what works for you because it means a lot to me to have you there and have you comfortable in you dress. I'm met with oh I can do this date/time then 2 days later oh shoot no I can't. FOUR TIMES. I delayed picking out my own dress because I wanted them there only to have to then cancel and reschedule the appointment because they forgot something else was going on that original date they told me they were free. It's not like I said hey be available tomorrow. It was hey when are you available in the next 30 days.


    If you think I'm shallow for feeling like I've asked someone multiple times for their availability schedule and opinions only to be basically pushed to the side each and every time, then yes I'm shallow. It's hurtful to feel like I've cared so much about wanting them to be a part of these only pre-wedding pieces to do it all around their schedules to only be let down every single time over the last 3 months.
    We're understanding. Why are you making their dress appointments for them? Why not let them make their own appointments? Have you given them guidelines for the dress? Let them pick the dresses out on their own time, on their own schedule. Why would you delay your own dress shopping? 

    Again, if you're willing to end 14 year friendships over dress shopping, that's your choice. I truly think you are overreacting.
  • I've made 1 formal appointment that was for my wedding dress. I asked the 4 people going what their availability was like over a 30 day period because I wanted it to work for them all. 2 days were landed on. I picked the earlier one. Shortly after, I was told oh wait I forgot no I do have plans that day. Canceled original appointment and booked for the other day. Ended up not being even able to make new date due to illness. Sucks but I understand that happens and was able to video call into the appointment to still be a part.

    Wanted to pick up my dress. Asked if they would like to join because they weren't there in person. Again asked what days work best for them. Did offer a few less options because I was anxious to get my dress. 2 days before. Omg forgot my son's baseball game is that day.

    Then bridesmaids dress shopping. Asked for their input/pick their own dress because we have different body types and I wanted them to feel comfortable and beautiful as well. Gave color specific and long length dresses as details. No one would go look on their own. "Whatever you want. Whatever you want." Being told back to me. Then I'd send over ideas and be told no I don't think that would be comfortable or didn't like it.

    Try to schedule a date to all go together. Have a fun girls time looking at bridesmaids dresses. Ask what days work best for them. No formal appointments. Just a walk in and hang out and look. No time frame. I'm open. Get told 1 date should work. Day before get told yeah not feeling well. Ok that happens. Try again. Another date. Gets closer. Get told omg I forgot it is my son's birthday...... Ok.

    So now not one time has dress shopping for either myself or them worked out no matter how many times I tried. Yes I'm hurt because I do feel I tried to be flexible. I tried to offer to let them do their thing. And each time it was shot down. That wouldn't make you feel a little dejected?
  • climbingsingleclimbingsingle NYC 'burbs member
    Eighth Anniversary 10000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    I've made 1 formal appointment that was for my wedding dress. I asked the 4 people going what their availability was like over a 30 day period because I wanted it to work for them all. 2 days were landed on. I picked the earlier one. Shortly after, I was told oh wait I forgot no I do have plans that day. Canceled original appointment and booked for the other day. Ended up not being even able to make new date due to illness. Sucks but I understand that happens and was able to video call into the appointment to still be a part.

    Wanted to pick up my dress. Asked if they would like to join because they weren't there in person. Again asked what days work best for them. Did offer a few less options because I was anxious to get my dress. 2 days before. Omg forgot my son's baseball game is that day.

    Then bridesmaids dress shopping. Asked for their input/pick their own dress because we have different body types and I wanted them to feel comfortable and beautiful as well. Gave color specific and long length dresses as details. No one would go look on their own. "Whatever you want. Whatever you want." Being told back to me. Then I'd send over ideas and be told no I don't think that would be comfortable or didn't like it.

    Try to schedule a date to all go together. Have a fun girls time looking at bridesmaids dresses. Ask what days work best for them. No formal appointments. Just a walk in and hang out and look. No time frame. I'm open. Get told 1 date should work. Day before get told yeah not feeling well. Ok that happens. Try again. Another date. Gets closer. Get told omg I forgot it is my son's birthday...... Ok.

    So now not one time has dress shopping for either myself or them worked out no matter how many times I tried. Yes I'm hurt because I do feel I tried to be flexible. I tried to offer to let them do their thing. And each time it was shot down. That wouldn't make you feel a little dejected?
    Honestly, no that would not make me feel dejected. People (especially ones with kids) are busy. Scheduling things is hard even when you don't have kids. I haven't seen some of my friends in 6+ months because that's life. Again, I think you're overreacting. But I guess you just want to be told you're justified in kicking them out. Not really sure why you've posted here looking for advice when you don't seem to take any. 
  • I think there are a few things here:
    1) Dress shopping won't be the priority for anyone that it is for you.  It just isn't.  If you have one BM with a child old enough to have activities then they not only have their own social lives and commitments but those of their kids.  My kids schedules change ALL the time and their events come before shopping.  That's going to be the reality that you need to face. 

    2) If this is disappointing you to the point that you're really frustrated have you TALKED to them?  Pick up the phone or make a zoom call or go for drinks and say that you are feeling stressed and frustrated and would like them to get together at a time that's convenient.

    I think you're being entirely unreasonable about what you think they should want to do.  I don't want to go with someone to get her dress.  I don't even want to go to a store to shop for my own now.  Send me links to 5 options that vary and tell me I'm picking one as long as it's in my own price point.   But I think the reality is that while you're trying to be stress free you're bringing on a lot of your own stress by asking people to be involved and excited about things that are really ultimately wedding-minutia and now you're upset that no one is excited about it.  

    If you're bent on just having no BP rather than resolving this then you'll likely have ruined these friendships forever.  Is that really worth it to you? 
  • I just don't know why I'm being vilified for even being upset that I've been understanding with them and accommodated their schedules with kids, school, life to be pushed off multiple times. So maybe ending the bridal party is a big jump. But to be told I'm not allowed to be upset that every single time I have been accommodating and not trying to go bridezilla and want their honest opinion that I'm still a terrible person is not exactly what I expected.
  • I will actually be paying for their dresses. So that part is not a concern for them.

    I did finally send dresses over and asked for them to pick and it was narrowed down to 3. We have been attempting to go try them on for weeks.

    The events coming up are not sudden events but long planned ones that were continously forgotten. I don't expect her to pick her kids over me. Again that is why I said hey what days do you not have something already going on or do you think you have time before or after it.

    We have been through this whole process already once with one of the girls when she got married. Yes times were different as far as kids and school and what not. It's a little upsetting that no matter how much I try to accommodate and be flexible to their lives, I haven't received the same respect. If they say they don't want to go, then that is that. But they keep saying they do want to go. That's where I'm conflicted because it doesn't feel like they're being honest.

    You're right that I do need to speak with them. And I feel like that should maybe happen first. I struggle with conflict and that was what I had been trying to avoid all along by trying to get their input and make sure things went well for them all the while not making sure it went well for me. Call me selfish but it is my day that myself and my family will be paying for so yes I want it to be a certain way to a degree.

    I'll start with reaching out but if it goes south again, I just don't think I can continue with the stress that they aren't getting their dresses even if I give them free reign and step back.
  • climbingsingleclimbingsingle NYC 'burbs member
    Eighth Anniversary 10000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    I just don't know why I'm being vilified for even being upset that I've been understanding with them and accommodated their schedules with kids, school, life to be pushed off multiple times. So maybe ending the bridal party is a big jump. But to be told I'm not allowed to be upset that every single time I have been accommodating and not trying to go bridezilla and want their honest opinion that I'm still a terrible person is not exactly what I expected.
    Who is vilifying you?  All anyone has said is to readjust your expectations and to maybe rethink removing your friends from your bridal party. 

    Take a beat. Don't make any rash decisions. Talk to your friends. Give them options of dresses to pick from and let them get their dresses on their own schedule.   
  • MyNameIsNotMyNameIsNot Atlanta member
    Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    edited June 23
    I just don't know why I'm being vilified for even being upset that I've been understanding with them and accommodated their schedules with kids, school, life to be pushed off multiple times. So maybe ending the bridal party is a big jump. But to be told I'm not allowed to be upset that every single time I have been accommodating and not trying to go bridezilla and want their honest opinion that I'm still a terrible person is not exactly what I expected.
    No one is vilifying you. People are correctly telling you that flying off the handle and potentially ruining friendships because your friends couldn't make scheduling work for a ridiculous dress shopping expedition is a huge over reaction and likely something you will regret later. 

    If you are dead set on doing this and really don't want any feedback from voices of reason, why post at all?
  • I just don't know why I'm being vilified for even being upset that I've been understanding with them and accommodated their schedules with kids, school, life to be pushed off multiple times. So maybe ending the bridal party is a big jump. But to be told I'm not allowed to be upset that every single time I have been accommodating and not trying to go bridezilla and want their honest opinion that I'm still a terrible person is not exactly what I expected.
    I'm certainly not vilifying you. I'm saying that you have vented your frustrations to strangers here and not to the people who were close enough to you to be in your BP. 

    When I'm frustrated with my husband I don't let it boil up to the point that I leave.  I have to sit down and tell him about what is bothering me, what I am wanting, and what I want to change. 

    You've vented about what's bothering you, what you're wanting and what you want to change and you haven't talked about it with the people who are bothering you.  Instead, they're treating these trips like the lower priority that they likely are FOR THEM when the reality is that they're not for you.  

    Your friends may still tell you that your expectations are too high, but if you don't talk to them about how you're feeling why would you expect them to be different?  And why do you think the adult approach is to be frustrated and just scrap all plans rather than talk about it?   This is handling humans 101.  And humans need to be told when there's an imbalance and issue and it's absolutely not fair for you to pull the rug out from under them without making your frustrations heard.

    It's still an absolute friendship-ending move to kick people out of your bridal party over this and it's incredibly dramatic but it's even worse to do it and not tell them why. 
    climbingsingle
  • MobKazMobKaz Chicago suburbs member
    Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    When is your actual wedding date?  How far in advance did you ask your friends to be in the wedding party? 
    Depending on where you live and personal attitudes toward Covid, how much did that factor into some of these shopping trips? 
    You have one of two choices.  Tell your friends that the concept of your wedding has changed, you have simplified/downsized the wedding party, and that you no longer need bridesmaids.  Option 2 is you find a color palette you like at the local bridal shop.  You ask your BM's to hit up the store at their convenience and tell them to select a dress in that color scheme with the length of dress you prefer.  You trust that the week of the wedding, they have their dresses.

  • February of next year. Been trying to get dresses organized since March of this year. Have attempted multiple times to say pick what you like in this color and fabric and I will buy it.

    I've decided to talk to them about this today. You all are correct in I should speak to them first. I feel like it could have been said a different way but that's what I've chosen to boil it down to. I'm going to give them a time line to have it completed by and if they feel they can not accomplish that, then the answer is simple from there that they will be a much loved guest of the wedding and not part of the wedding party.
  • February of next year. Been trying to get dresses organized since March of this year. Have attempted multiple times to say pick what you like in this color and fabric and I will buy it.

    I've decided to talk to them about this today. You all are correct in I should speak to them first. I feel like it could have been said a different way but that's what I've chosen to boil it down to. I'm going to give them a time line to have it completed by and if they feel they can not accomplish that, then the answer is simple from there that they will be a much loved guest of the wedding and not part of the wedding party.
    That's the general answer to most things wedding related.  But the timeline needs to be your wedding and not an arbitrary date you create.  Your wedding is more than 6 months away and summer just started.  They need a dress by February.  Don't start worrying until January in 2023 - not June 2022. 
  • climbingsingleclimbingsingle NYC 'burbs member
    Eighth Anniversary 10000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    It really wasn't necessary to try to force the bridesmaid dress shopping a year in advance. Your wedding is still 7-8 months away now. I don't understand the urgency of this. 
    banana468
  • It really wasn't necessary to try to force the bridesmaid dress shopping a year in advance. Your wedding is still 7-8 months away now. I don't understand the urgency of this. 
    And this is likely why the bridesmaid dress shopping is postponed.  Sizes could even change between now and then.  I wouldn't buy something so early or prioritize shopping for it at this point either.
    climbingsingle
  • Thank you all for your input.
    I understand how time lines work and also understand the time line for alterations where I live works.
    My girls and I know our body types and less anything absolutely tragic occurring, not much is going to be changing.

    Thank you all again for your input on this matter. I have definitely chosen to alter my view of the situation and will work with my girls on getting on the same page before jumping to drastic measures.

    I will no longer be replying or viewing this forum. Please feel free to continue to discuss among yourselves. I will no longer be contributing.
  • You can totally destress about dresses if you just let them wear what they want that they know will be flattering on them. You could ask for a certain length and color (or not), and then let them be to handle it and not give it another thought.

    In the end, what's more important to you-- that your best friends be standing up with you (perhaps not dressed as you envisioned), or that they be wearing the dress you dictated for them and if they're not, they can just have a seat? I don't think it should come down to clothing.
  • levioosalevioosa Southern California member
    Eighth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    I will actually be paying for their dresses. So that part is not a concern for them.

    I did finally send dresses over and asked for them to pick and it was narrowed down to 3. We have been attempting to go try them on for weeks.

    The events coming up are not sudden events but long planned ones that were continously forgotten. I don't expect her to pick her kids over me. Again that is why I said hey what days do you not have something already going on or do you think you have time before or after it.

    We have been through this whole process already once with one of the girls when she got married. Yes times were different as far as kids and school and what not. It's a little upsetting that no matter how much I try to accommodate and be flexible to their lives, I haven't received the same respect. If they say they don't want to go, then that is that. But they keep saying they do want to go. That's where I'm conflicted because it doesn't feel like they're being honest.

    You're right that I do need to speak with them. And I feel like that should maybe happen first. I struggle with conflict and that was what I had been trying to avoid all along by trying to get their input and make sure things went well for them all the while not making sure it went well for me. Call me selfish but it is my day that myself and my family will be paying for so yes I want it to be a certain way to a degree.

    I'll start with reaching out but if it goes south again, I just don't think I can continue with the stress that they aren't getting their dresses even if I give them free reign and step back.
    February of next year. Been trying to get dresses organized since March of this year. Have attempted multiple times to say pick what you like in this color and fabric and I will buy it.

    I've decided to talk to them about this today. You all are correct in I should speak to them first. I feel like it could have been said a different way but that's what I've chosen to boil it down to. I'm going to give them a time line to have it completed by and if they feel they can not accomplish that, then the answer is simple from there that they will be a much loved guest of the wedding and not part of the wedding party.
    Thank you all for your input.
    I understand how time lines work and also understand the time line for alterations where I live works.
    My girls and I know our body types and less anything absolutely tragic occurring, not much is going to be changing.

    Thank you all again for your input on this matter. I have definitely chosen to alter my view of the situation and will work with my girls on getting on the same page before jumping to drastic measures.

    I will no longer be replying or viewing this forum. Please feel free to continue to discuss among yourselves. I will no longer be contributing.
    Giant eye roll here 


    image
    banana468climbingsingleMyNameIsNot
  • levioosa said:
    I will actually be paying for their dresses. So that part is not a concern for them.

    I did finally send dresses over and asked for them to pick and it was narrowed down to 3. We have been attempting to go try them on for weeks.

    The events coming up are not sudden events but long planned ones that were continously forgotten. I don't expect her to pick her kids over me. Again that is why I said hey what days do you not have something already going on or do you think you have time before or after it.

    We have been through this whole process already once with one of the girls when she got married. Yes times were different as far as kids and school and what not. It's a little upsetting that no matter how much I try to accommodate and be flexible to their lives, I haven't received the same respect. If they say they don't want to go, then that is that. But they keep saying they do want to go. That's where I'm conflicted because it doesn't feel like they're being honest.

    You're right that I do need to speak with them. And I feel like that should maybe happen first. I struggle with conflict and that was what I had been trying to avoid all along by trying to get their input and make sure things went well for them all the while not making sure it went well for me. Call me selfish but it is my day that myself and my family will be paying for so yes I want it to be a certain way to a degree.

    I'll start with reaching out but if it goes south again, I just don't think I can continue with the stress that they aren't getting their dresses even if I give them free reign and step back.
    February of next year. Been trying to get dresses organized since March of this year. Have attempted multiple times to say pick what you like in this color and fabric and I will buy it.

    I've decided to talk to them about this today. You all are correct in I should speak to them first. I feel like it could have been said a different way but that's what I've chosen to boil it down to. I'm going to give them a time line to have it completed by and if they feel they can not accomplish that, then the answer is simple from there that they will be a much loved guest of the wedding and not part of the wedding party.
    Thank you all for your input.
    I understand how time lines work and also understand the time line for alterations where I live works.
    My girls and I know our body types and less anything absolutely tragic occurring, not much is going to be changing.

    Thank you all again for your input on this matter. I have definitely chosen to alter my view of the situation and will work with my girls on getting on the same page before jumping to drastic measures.

    I will no longer be replying or viewing this forum. Please feel free to continue to discuss among yourselves. I will no longer be contributing.
    Giant eye roll here 
    Yup.  I'm thinking the OP is a giant bundle of stress but....the shut down and not talking is kind of how she got into this in the first place.
    MobKaz
  • MyNameIsNotMyNameIsNot Atlanta member
    Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    It really wasn't necessary to try to force the bridesmaid dress shopping a year in advance. Your wedding is still 7-8 months away now. I don't understand the urgency of this. 
    Because contrary to what OP says, she really enjoys conflict. She created a conflict by creating an arbitrary timeline, and then goes to silent treatment when people don't bend to her will. Then she pretends that she's avoiding conflict by refusing to discuss the conflict she created.

    My mother uses the exact same manipulation tactic.
    levioosa
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