The boyfriend makes me all aflutter... and nuts. LONG. Rambly. Nuts.

wink0erin

BF and I don't have a timeline either, and it makes me feel weird sometimes, usually when I feel emotional (PMS?). He pretty much won't respond if I say anything or ask anything marriage related, but sometimes he will blab for half an hour about stuff like that while I stare at him like a deer in headlights. So unfair that he can talk about it, but if I say anything it makes him uncomfortable.

We did have a good conversation about wedding vs. eloping a few months ago though. There's just no timeline, and I doubt we will ever have one.

I live with him so I'm fine waiting... I don't think I'll really start to get antsy until after he graduates, since the closest thing we have to a timeline is that he would prefer to graduate before we take that step. He's 27 and I'm 25, in case anyone was wondering.

lunarsongbird

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_boyfriend-aflutter-nuts-long-rambly-nuts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:01ac9185-7d8f-449d-a675-ff946a73be04Post:a83095a0-6974-48f6-82d6-83b3ca3a09ca">Re: The boyfriend makes me all aflutter... and nuts. LONG. Rambly. Nuts.</a>:
[QUOTE] OOOH, I forgot to mention, when we were talking about school, we were talking about me being Dr. My Last Name, which is pretty much Bad Arse for those of you who know it.  Then he responded with: Dr. His Last Name.  His eyes twinkled.  There was a long, long, long pause before he says, "You know... like my grandpa!" Posted by becunning2[/QUOTE]

Oh my gosh...holy freaking adorably cute.... Haha.

I would imagine this conversation would actually be quite a comfort. He obviously has wedding plans in his head. How exciting! Now if we could only get a timeline out of him. I might have missed it, but have you asked him about time again? He seems to be in a good place to spill.

becunning2

Lunar, We were sitting together and talking the other day, and I just had this super lame wave of "marry me!" wash over me. I told him that it was hard for me to just kind of check it because I'll look at him, see his eyes crinkle or whatever when he's doing something adorable and have this wave of "I want this man to be my husband" and how it's hard for me wondering whether he has similar such experiences since he won't share them.

He didn't answer/bean-dipped/changed the subject.  And his eyes twinkled the entire damn time.  Stupid eye twinkling. 

lunarsongbird

When Andrew and I started talking about getting engaged- I put a lot of ideas on a couple of pieces of paper- put it in an envelope and told him that he should open it when he was ready. Worked pretty well, actually.

becunning2

I've definitely said what I like and don't like, I just hate feeling like I'm talking to a wall who isn't interested or invested in the conversation since, well, it's not a conversation. *grumble*  Let's hope if he does decide he's on the engagement track, he was more like a sponge than a brick when I was explaining what I liked. 

desertsun

I think it is completely unfair and not right when a guy refuses to talk about the future or a timeline.

It would make me feel completely disrespected and powerless, and I personally wouldn't stand for it.

Seriously. That's bullshiit. It would be a deal-breaker for me, and it should be a red flag for both of you, Cunning and Wink.

It is never okay for the balance of power in a relationship to be so in favor of one person. It's not healthy for EITHER of you.

Think about it this way -- what do you think of girls who dictate everything to their guys? What do you think of guys who let girls dictate to them? There are a lot of nasty names around for that kind of situation, but somehow it's okay for a guy to refuse to talk about a timeline for getting engaged, married, and having children when he is supposedly in a serious, committed relationship? Effing ridiculous.

I mean, maybe I'm just hormonal today, since I seem to be the only one getting all worked up about it. But in my mind, at this moment, it's so not okay and it makes me really angry that you and Wink are settling for this kind of situation, Cunning. I think you both deserve better.

becunning2

It makes me really angry sometimes too Desert. Hurt as well. It just feels like rejection every time he changes the subject. And then it makes me crazy because I don't know if it's because he doesn't want to get married or if it's because he's planning some secret thing I can't know about. He says I just torture myself and thinks he doesn't have a role in it. 

MtlBride12

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_boyfriend-aflutter-nuts-long-rambly-nuts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:01ac9185-7d8f-449d-a675-ff946a73be04Post:5a329348-a686-490d-9a77-63f3874db50b">Re: The boyfriend makes me all aflutter... and nuts. LONG. Rambly. Nuts.</a>:
[QUOTE]It makes me really angry sometimes too Desert. Hurt as well. <strong>It just feels like rejection every time he changes the subject</strong>. And then it makes me crazy because I don't know if it's because he doesn't want to get married or if it's because he's planning some secret thing I can't know about. He says I just torture myself and thinks he doesn't have a role in it. 
Posted by becunning2[/QUOTE]

Have you said this to him? And he refuses to change despite the fact that his beliefs about your role in your own future are hurting you? I agree with Desert. This would be a huge red flag and a potential deal breaker for me.

Why would you want to marry someone who continues to do something that makes you feel hurt  and rejected because of some preconceived belief?

becunning2

Here's a question:  Why are my beliefs more important than his?

Isn't there some compromise necessary to relationships?

E.g., I'm Jewish, he's not. I want Jewish kids. He knows this. He would have to completely cede to my preconceived beliefs because they're important to me. We're doing a mini compromise with stockings on Christmas, but we're not going to ever have a Christmas tree in the house. That's my preconceived belief, not his, and he's grudgingly on-board since we'll otherwise be spending Christmas with family, just not at home.

becunning2

Yeah, he's totally nonreligious, but he still celebrate Christian holidays with family. I don't know that we made this decision "together," since I don't think it's a decision he would have ever made.  But we talked about it, and he seems to accept it--even if he gives me crap about Christmas trees and how I must hate Christmas. The burden is on me, so to speak.

I think I need to write everything down about what I'm feeling. Maybe that'll help. 

MtlBride12

I think that these type of beliefs are exactly what need to be talked about and agreed on in a relationship. Did you just say "we're raising our children this way" and then refuse to speak about it any more despite his questions/concerns? I think the ability to discuss these huge issues is the most important part of making a relationship work. If it is important to you that you discuss where you're going in terms of marriage, and he won't even open himself up to your opinion, then to me that is the red flag.

MtlBride12

Or just ditto Yaga - she said it much more eloquently.

csousa1

I get your point Cunning, but let me ask you this -

Is your practice of your religion/expectations of how it is incorporated making him feel like he has no control? Is it making him doubt how you feel about him, or about what this relationship means and where it is headed? Is it causing him emotional pain while you tell him he is doing it to himself because he disagrees? If so, then you would be wrong to do that to him. My guess is no, so it isn't the same thing.

If this is a "belief" of his in that regard, I think it is high time that he decide whether his philosophy or your feelings are more important to him.

Take all of that with a grain of salt. I'm pretty pissed about my own situation and it is definitely coming through.

doubleSS07

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_boyfriend-aflutter-nuts-long-rambly-nuts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:01ac9185-7d8f-449d-a675-ff946a73be04Post:b86a6f8c-6390-4a67-9611-72f3181513ee">Re: The boyfriend makes me all aflutter... and nuts. LONG. Rambly. Nuts.</a>:
[QUOTE]Here's a question:  Why are my beliefs more important than his? Isn't there some compromise necessary to relationships? E.g., I'm Jewish, he's not. I want Jewish kids. He knows this. He would have to completely cede to my preconceived beliefs because they're important to me. We're doing a mini compromise with stockings on Christmas, but we're not going to ever have a Christmas tree in the house. That's my preconceived belief, not his, and he's grudgingly on-board since we'll otherwise be spending Christmas with family, just not at home.
Posted by becunning2[/QUOTE]

I agree cunning that there is definitely compromise that is necessary to keep and maintain a successful relationship.  I get what you are saying that there are things that are important integrally to each of you as individuals and why is it fair to expect him to compromise but not fair for him to keep his idea of this being the man's decision.

The difference I see here is that you seem (correct me if I'm wrong) to have CLEARLY stated your ideals and intent regarding your religious beliefs and what you want for your future children, I'm assuming no matter who the father would be.  You said he is grudgingly on board so this tells me that he has heard what you had to say, had some say in return and got you to compromise on the stockings at least. 

My point is that there was a conversation had where he heard your point of view, got a turn for his point of view and you both agreed on a plan of action for the future.  His not talking to you openly about the fact that he even intends to marry you is not a compromise for the sake of his beliefs on the subject.  He should at least have the decency to say "I love you very much and I have every intent of marrying you but when that is and the symbol I give is going to be my choice because I believe in the surprise of it all and I'm not quite ready yet", or something like that.  You then get to say well I'm picky about my jewelry so can I give you a few likes/dislikes so that you at least have a clear idea of what I would love to have.  

I know its hard for some guys.  I know my BF felt like if he told me yes he was thinking about it he was somehow committing right then and there, and they call us cra cra!  I basically had to have a melt down for him to truely understand how it was making me feel to not even be able to have a conversation about it.  He doesn't like when I cry so he finally listened, got the picture and said that he definitely saw me with him for the long haul and we'd be getting married one day.  Of course that was a year and a half ago lol one day isn't here yet! 

dwest2201

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_boyfriend-aflutter-nuts-long-rambly-nuts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:01ac9185-7d8f-449d-a675-ff946a73be04Post:b86a6f8c-6390-4a67-9611-72f3181513ee">Re: The boyfriend makes me all aflutter... and nuts. LONG. Rambly. Nuts.</a>:
[QUOTE]Here's a question:  Why are my beliefs more important than his? Isn't there some compromise necessary to relationships? E.g., I'm Jewish, he's not. I want Jewish kids. He knows this. He would have to completely cede to my preconceived beliefs because they're important to me. We're doing a mini compromise with stockings on Christmas, but we're not going to ever have a Christmas tree in the house. That's my preconceived belief, not his, and he's grudgingly on-board since we'll otherwise be spending Christmas with family, just not at home.
Posted by becunning2[/QUOTE]

I agree that no ones beliefs are more important in a relationship.  I think that this compromise is great and that compromising is a huge part of making a relationship work. 

I also think, based on some of the things that your BF has said recently that he wants to get married, to you and make Jew babies with you!  He knows that you want to be married and have kids, it would be beyond cruel for him to string you along with that not being part of the plan.  I do not think he is doing that. 

As long as you are okay (not happy, but okay) with not having a timeline and waiting it out then it's okay.  But, when you are bothered or hurt you should absolutely tell him.  I think that it is important to always be open about how you feel.  If you are in love with your BF and cannot see your self without him then you should just be happy and not over think everything. 

csousa1

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_boyfriend-aflutter-nuts-long-rambly-nuts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:01ac9185-7d8f-449d-a675-ff946a73be04Post:8af07fce-5f79-4f30-8eef-8bfb70c6562d">Re: The boyfriend makes me all aflutter... and nuts. LONG. Rambly. Nuts.</a>:
[QUOTE]Yeah, he's totally nonreligious, but he still celebrate Christian holidays with family. I don't know that we made this decision "together," since I don't think it's a decision he would have ever made.  But we talked about it, and he seems to accept it--even if he gives me crap about Christmas trees and how I must hate Christmas. The burden is on me, so to speak. <strong>I think I need to write everything down about what I'm feeling. Maybe that'll help.</strong> 
Posted by becunning2[/QUOTE]

YES!

jaycee7389

Wow, I never thought about how difficult a Jewish and Christian couple raising kids could be. I give you a lot of credit, becunning. I wouldn't be able to give up things like Santa, Christmas trees, etc because I am so excited to share that with my children. But most of all, not raising my children with my beliefs would probably be impossible for me. I completely agree that writing your feelings down is the best idea!

csousa1

I just want to add, since if I were you I would feel a bit defensive about now with how preachy we are all getting, that we just care about you and want you to be happy. It isn't about your beliefs being more important than his or vice versa, it's about him brushing you aside when you tell him point blank that something is bothering you. That is never okay, and whatever else may be going on for him, he needs to recognize that.

becunning2

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_boyfriend-aflutter-nuts-long-rambly-nuts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:01ac9185-7d8f-449d-a675-ff946a73be04Post:9ad7dc04-7a13-48e2-8045-5995412f34ee">Re: The boyfriend makes me all aflutter... and nuts. LONG. Rambly. Nuts.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: The boyfriend makes me all aflutter... and nuts. LONG. Rambly. Nuts. :  I also think, based on some of the things that your BF has said recently that he wants to get married, to you and make Jew babies with you!  He knows that you want to be married and have kids, it would be beyond cruel for him to string you along with that not being part of the plan.  
Posted by dwest2201[/QUOTE]

<div>*snort*  Yay for Jew babies!</div><div>
</div><div>He's not ever an intentionally cruel person; he's very thoughtful. But every now and then, he's a champion at putting his foot in his mouth... or his arse. </div>

becunning2

I don't think you're getting preachy at all. I appreciate all the feedback and love.  I was just trying to think about what he might think about the situation where he feels like his belief or value is being ignored.

OKAY, here's what I've written out... I'm thinking I will share it with him... but before I do, can I get anymore feedback? (Ranging from, just wait, he's surely up to something, to share it and if he brushes you off again, let me know I'll get a baseball bat.)

I am still struggling with complicated emotions about our future, and not all of them are pleasant. It feels like rejection when you refuse to answer basic questions about where we will be as a couple in the next year or in the next five years. We have been together three years, and I feel disrespected and slighted when you continually change the subject or avoid me.

 

I understand that you believe that you should be able to surprise me with a proposal, but I’m coming to strongly resent this belief. When I’m feeling particularly bitter, rejected, or hurt, I even imagine myself saying NO so you could understand the hurt and rejection I’ve felt when you refuse to clue me in to what your plans are. I usually quickly stamp out that feeling, but it’s been there a couple of times. Being ready to get married isn’t a decision that I can make for you, and it’s not a decision that you can make for me. It’s a decision that we have to make TOGETHER, and I feel like you’re leaving me out of the loop.

 

I want to respect some of your wishes, and I don’t need some kind of detailed plan about when you expect to propose. But it’s only fair at this point in our relationship that I know that you want to marry me and that you want me to be the mother of your future kiddos. You can pick out a ring (or not get me one) and you can decide when you’re ready, but at this point, you should know whether you want to or not, and that’s something we should discuss together. Those discussions don’t take away from the surprise and joy of an engagement, but NOT having those discussions is taking away from the daily joy I have of being with you and the joy I have in imagining our lives together.

 

I am tired of being ignored on this front. I’m tired of trying to have this conversation and having you ignore me yet again. It’s okay if you’re not ready to get married TODAY or even engaged in the next few months, but it’s important to me to know that you do intend on marrying me someday and that you have some idea of when that someday will be. 

 

csousa1

That is excellent. Clear, fair, and firm without attacking him. It's perfect!

dwest2201

I think you did great!  It is well written and firm, but focuses on your feelings.

wink0erin

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_boyfriend-aflutter-nuts-long-rambly-nuts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:01ac9185-7d8f-449d-a675-ff946a73be04Post:bca9670d-c078-4ede-8ee0-e9e60c1b9073">Re: The boyfriend makes me all aflutter... and nuts. LONG. Rambly. Nuts.</a>:
[QUOTE]I think it is completely unfair and not right when a guy refuses to talk about the future or a timeline. It would make me feel completely disrespected and powerless, and I personally wouldn't stand for it. Seriously. That's bullshiit. It would be a deal-breaker for me, and it should be a red flag for both of you, Cunning and Wink. It is never okay for the balance of power in a relationship to be so in favor of one person. It's not healthy for EITHER of you. Think about it this way -- what do you think of girls who dictate everything to their guys? What do you think of guys who let girls dictate to them? There are a lot of nasty names around for that kind of situation, but somehow it's okay for a guy to refuse to talk about a timeline for getting engaged, married, and having children when he is supposedly in a serious, committed relationship? Effing ridiculous. I mean, maybe I'm just hormonal today, since I seem to be the only one getting all worked up about it. But in my mind, at this moment, it's so not okay and it makes me really angry that you and Wink are settling for this kind of situation, Cunning. I think you both deserve better. :(
Posted by desertsun[/QUOTE]


In my situation with BF, I know the reason he acts that way is because he was married to a total crazy beeeotch for the 4 years before we met. I met him while he was going through divorce with her and I can vouch for the crazy. She did a lot of terrible things while they were together (and after divorce), and she tried her hardest to sabotage our relationship early on. BF had to pretty much tell her to go eff herself and leave him alone or he'd be getting a restraining order, it was that bad. His family and friends have told me all sorts of things about this girl too. She is legit cray cray.

Poor guy never thought he would want to DATE again, let alone consider marrying someone else. I try to give him space with WR conversations out of respect for his past. I should clarify that I'm talking about weddings here, not marriage. We have discussed marriage, kids and the future in general many times, there's just no set timeline. Except with kids, we both really want kids, and I say that I want to be married first. We do have sort of a timeline there... I want kids before I'm 30
 and he has said he'd like one by the time he's 30 too. I'm 25 and he's 27, so that gives us a couple years, lol.

Since he has mentioned he thinks he won't be ready until after graduating, and he will be graduating next summer, I won't start to get antsy until then. I think that will be the next time I bring up the topic. I feel sort of weird posting here and not having a timeline, but I do feel secure in my relationship and don't feel the need for one right now.

Yeah I do feel hurt when he bean dips or mumbles out a half-answer when the topic comes up, and yes I tell him it's bothersome. I think it helps keep the BSC at bay. I'm just glad we can talk about kids though, that's more important to me than any future wedding. We both get so excited when talking about our future brood. Major eye sparkles.

wink0erin

woo I came back late... good ol work luncheon.

anyway, becunning, I like the letter you wrote. It sums up your feelings without attacking him or getting preachy. Hopefully he sees what we all see here and he gives you a good conversation.

jaycee7389

I think the letter is very tactfully written. It gets your message across clearly, and focuses on your concerns for where he is in the relationship, rather than your desire to be engaged. The most important part, IMO, was when you said that it is not a decision that either of you can make for each other---but rather together. That is so important! It really goes off of what I was trying to explain I did with my FI, and what Desert was concerned about. Please let us know how it goes!

Also, you may want to suggest that he responds to you via the same format. It may be easier for him to do it privately, take his time, and then let you read it privately.

jaycee7389

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_boyfriend-aflutter-nuts-long-rambly-nuts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:01ac9185-7d8f-449d-a675-ff946a73be04Post:d4bcd6b1-c317-4977-a241-537044f6bd6e">Re: The boyfriend makes me all aflutter... and nuts. LONG. Rambly. Nuts.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: The boyfriend makes me all aflutter... and nuts. LONG. Rambly. Nuts. : In my situation with BF, I know the reason he acts that way is because he was married to a total crazy beeeotch for the 4 years before we met. I met him while he was going through divorce with her and I can vouch for the crazy. She did a lot of terrible things while they were together (and after divorce), and she tried her hardest to sabotage our relationship early on. BF had to pretty much tell her to go eff herself and leave him alone or he'd be getting a restraining order, it was that bad. His family and friends have told me all sorts of things about this girl too. She is legit cray cray. Poor guy never thought he would want to DATE again, let alone consider marrying someone else. I try to give him space with WR conversations out of respect for his past. I should clarify that I'm talking about weddings here, not marriage. We have discussed marriage, kids and the future in general many times, there's just no set timeline. Except with kids, we both really want kids, and I say that I want to be married first. We do have sort of a timeline there... I want kids before I'm 30  and he has said he'd like one by the time he's 30 too. I'm 25 and he's 27, so that gives us a couple years, lol. <strong>Since he has mentioned he thinks he won't be ready until after graduating, and he will be graduating next summer, I won't start to get antsy until then.</strong> I think that will be the next time I bring up the topic. I<strong> feel sort of weird posting here and not having a timeline, but I do feel secure in my relationship and don't feel the need for one right now. </strong>Yeah I do feel hurt when he bean dips or mumbles out a half-answer when the topic comes up, and yes I tell him it's bothersome. I think it helps keep the BSC at bay. I'm just glad we can talk about kids though, that's more important to me than any future wedding. We both get so excited when talking about our future brood. Major eye sparkles.
Posted by wink0erin[/QUOTE]


I think it's good that he told you that, because realistically it should help you to "let it go" until then. KWIM?

Don't feel that way! Plenty of the girls on here are in the same boat or not even in relationships :)

desertsun

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_boyfriend-aflutter-nuts-long-rambly-nuts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:01ac9185-7d8f-449d-a675-ff946a73be04Post:215c84ac-aa34-457c-b873-dd31be9a53eb">Re: The boyfriend makes me all aflutter... and nuts. LONG. Rambly. Nuts.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: The boyfriend makes me all aflutter... and nuts. LONG. Rambly. Nuts. : I think it's good that he told you that, because realistically it should help you to "let it go" until then. KWIM? Don't feel that way! Plenty of the girls on here are in the same boat or not even in relationships :)
Posted by jaycee7389[/QUOTE]

I think that as long as you feel you get decision making power in your relationship, and you are secure and happy, but just occasionally (understandably!) impatient, that is okay.

I just feel like it's not right when girls feel like they don't get  a say in their own futures is all. :)

wink0erin

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_boyfriend-aflutter-nuts-long-rambly-nuts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:01ac9185-7d8f-449d-a675-ff946a73be04Post:215c84ac-aa34-457c-b873-dd31be9a53eb">Re: The boyfriend makes me all aflutter... and nuts. LONG. Rambly. Nuts.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: The boyfriend makes me all aflutter... and nuts. LONG. Rambly. Nuts. : I think it's good that he told you that, because realistically it should help you to "let it go" until then. KWIM? Don't feel that way! Plenty of the girls on here are in the same boat or not even in relationships :)
Posted by jaycee7389[/QUOTE]

It really helped to get that tidbit of "timeline" and it gives me several months to just enjoy our relationship and not think about it much. I'm sure I'll think about it though, since I know we will have two weddings to attend before he even graduates, haha!

Knowing BF's family, the topic will come up at Christmas. They already consider me family anyway. And knowing my family, they won't say anything while BF is around but they will give us that glowy smiley stare when we sit on the couch, and my dad might accidentally call BF "son-in-law" again. Holidays are entertaining.

noelle24

I just read your letter.  I think you need to give it to him.  If you don't get these feelings out, then you're just going to continue to get more and more bitter, to the point where you will have no happiness when he proposes at all. 

You deserve, at the very least, a "yes, I see myself marrying you sometime in the next X years".

desertsun

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_boyfriend-aflutter-nuts-long-rambly-nuts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:01ac9185-7d8f-449d-a675-ff946a73be04Post:d231dc03-d472-4a37-bebb-e5a241671cc6">Re: The boyfriend makes me all aflutter... and nuts. LONG. Rambly. Nuts.</a>:
[QUOTE]I think that's really good.  You definitely get your message across without attacking him.  I like how it's about your future together, rather than "I WANNA BE MARRIIEEEDDD." 
Posted by yaga13[/QUOTE]

Yes, X 2.

I strongly feel that couples should be able to have equal input into future plans, and at some point, it can get difficult trying to plan if you don't know if or when the other person is thinking marriage.

I mean, he wouldn't just do a lot of thinking and planning about buying a car without talking to you about it, right? He wouldn't just show up one day with a new car and be like, I'd been thinking about it and planning it for months, right?

So why is marriage any different?

In a happy and secure relationship between healthy adults, conversations about the future are so much more about respect than they are about pressure.