Just Curious....

allisong23

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:024091b0-0732-4ace-90c9-b490ebc7255e">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just Curious.... : Yeah, like public schools and fire departments. Gross.
Posted by BobLoblaw[/QUOTE]

And the roads and highways we drive on every day..

CaliopeSpidrman

Thank you guys for saving this thread.  I was ready to set it on fire.

SarahSmile23

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:11c0a904-7d8b-4e0f-a534-ebbc4327c281">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE] I had no benefits and to buy my own insurance, as a (then) 25-year old girl, even a perfectly healthy one, was WAY out of the price range.
Posted by jennylove810[/QUOTE]
Did you have a realistic price range? I know it varies from state to state, but a healthy 25 year old can get a private insurance plan for under $200 month in most states. The one I had for a few years was $130/month. I just don't want anyone to read your response and get discouraged when there ARE options out there. The problem isn't insuring healthy 25 year olds who just don't want to fork over $130/month. The problem is insuring people with pre-existing conditions. I absolutely support making health insurance available for people with pre-existing conditions. I don't, however, support what will ultimately turn into government takeover of our healthcare. The government means well, but they cannot efficiently run large scale programs better than the private sector can. And since the bill does nothing to reduce the actual COST of healthcare, all this bill does is force the tax payers to purchase insurance. So imagine being that 25 yr old girl who doesn't want to budget for insurance. Well, guess what? Now you HAVE to or you will get fined for it.

Public schools, highways, and fire departments are shared assets that citizens all use together. You cannot have a private highway for each person. My private health insurance plan is not utilized by anybody but me. It does not make sense to compare public health care to a highway.

Obama is even worse than Dubya. I seriously hope we get some good options in 2012. I'm holding out for Paul Ryan. He seems to be the only Representative out there right now who truly wants to reduce the costs of health care and prevent the government from going even further into debt.

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:8da3ae75-478d-4742-94db-f743ecc30b48">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just Curious.... : Please, tell us more about the CA program and how it's bankrupting the state. As for my opinion, I recognize that I've never received a handout because I've never really needed one.  I'm happy to pay my taxes to give some help to the people who really, really do.<strong> <u>And the implication that democrats or liberals are just young and dumb, and that I'll understand when I grow up is really, realyl condescending</u>.</strong>  In turn, I'll make the implication that conservatives are cold hearted biitches who care more about money than helping their fellow man, ok?
Posted by SarahBethBR[/QUOTE]

Why dont you read what I said before you put words in my mouth.  I said your political ideas get CEMENTED the older you get, and that MINE became more conservative.  I said nothing about 'liberals being dumb'.

SarahBethBR

I did read what you said.  I also read what Weiner Girl said about how she just "didn't get it" when she was young and librul, and didn't know what personal responsibility was.

I know what personal responsibility is, and I consider it part of my personal responsibility as someone who has had the advantages I have to help those less fortunate.

You, on the other hand, just think we're elitists, right?  That's okay, I'll take it.

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:2065c520-aafd-45ee-8b62-9a827dd2d9a5">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]I did read what you said.  I also read what Weiner Girl said about how she just "didn't get it" when she was young and librul, and didn't know what personal responsibility was. I know what personal responsibility is, and I consider it part of my personal responsibility as someone who has had the advantages I have to help those less fortunate. You, on the other hand, just think we're elitists, right?  That's okay, I'll take it.
Posted by SarahBethBR[/QUOTE]

You are ridiculous.  This is why I dont argue politics with people who dont know what they are talking about.

If you have an issue with "weiner girl" take it up with her. 

I love how you think that everything I said was addressed to you.  But since I said that I though Obama and Pelosi were the elitists, I thought I had clarified.

If you cannot argue a point without putting words into my mouth to strengthen your point, then just dont say anything. 

I dont care if you agree with my views or not.  I also at no point put down your beliefs.  If you want to carry on about how awesome you are because you support a certain ideology, then by all means.

I commented on a policy, you are attacking a party.  There is a difference.

SarahBethBR

The first part of my post, about the CA program was to you.  The rest was to gen pop.

Since you've asked people not to comment on things they don't know about, how about you clarify which CA program you're talking about.  California does not require residents to buy health insurance.  Since you're so informed, please explain.

And dude, I am not attacking a party.  I know and love many conservatives.  But your use of the tea party buzzwords has made me think you're not one of them.

Blueyed228

California tried to pass a similar bill mandating health care but the Govenor shot it down because he had his own health care reform that he was trying to implement.

They are so broke that experts say that before this new healthcare reform can happen in that state, they need to seriously overhaul their spending.

They are broke because too much of their money is going into public assistance.  2.2 million people in LA alone are on public aid. California has more recipients on welfare than the next 8 states combined.  The 'similar programs' I was talking about are the fact that all covered in those welfare programs receive free healthcare and it is a major contributor in why they as a state are broke,

And so now you have a problem with the tea party? Whats next?  The oil spill is Bushs fault?  Your arguments are getting pretty predictable.

SarahSmile23

my cat just knocked down a picture frame.

it's bush's fault. i'm sure of it.

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:ac8daeb0-e47d-4ec6-8840-ce27d79647ef">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]my cat just knocked down a picture frame. it's bush's fault. i'm sure of it.
Posted by SarahSmile23[/QUOTE]

My FI backed into my car last week.  Im pretty sure it was Bushs fault too.

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:ac8daeb0-e47d-4ec6-8840-ce27d79647ef">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]my cat just knocked down a picture frame. it's bush's fault. i'm sure of it.
Posted by SarahSmile23[/QUOTE]

We deserve it though, because we are "cold hearted bitches who dont want to help out our fellow man".

SarahSmile23

actually, this picture had my SIL in it. good kitty. knock that bitch down.

_Fenton

Hey do you know who came up with the idea of mandated health insurance?  Richard Nixon.  And Bush Jr. supported the idea, too.  So it's a conservative plan that Republicans just decided they didn't like because it had Obama's name on it.  The More You Know!

If you're against government health care, I assume you never attended or will allow your child to attend a public school.  I also assume you'd hose down the flames yourself if your house ever caught on fire.

Trusting insurance companies to cover health care is about as smart as trusting BP to handle an oil spill. 

The problem with health care is that we've just had light years of progress in technology and everyone wants access to the highest standard of care.  Couple that with the fact that the health companies are expected to increase profits every year, to please their shareholders.  The system is just destined to collapse on itself. 

Other countries are experiencing the troubles of rising costs as well, but it still costs four times as much to treat people in this country than it does elsewhere.  The profit incentive is the driving factor behind that. So far, insurance companies have been able to keep raising prices and getting enough people to pay them to keep their profits up.  If they raise their premiums by $50 and they keep 99 out of every 100 customers, they will make more money than if they left the price alone and kept all of their customers.  But eventually more and more people will lose insurance, either by being denied claims and getting kicked off when they actually get sick or by opting out of the policy because they can't afford it.  At some point, the insurance companies will stop making profits and by then the crisis will be awful and out of control.  This is what health reform is trying to avoid.

The other problem, that no one wants to talk about is rationing.  Rationing happens now, all the time, but many people don't ever get very sick so they don't know about it.  Insurance companies deny claims and just stop covering people when they get too expensive.  People are living longer than ever and through illnesses that used to be most certainly fatal, and much more quickly.  This is just not financially sustainable.  The situation is going to reach fever pitch when the Boomers get further and further into old age.  At some point we're going to have to have an honest debate about what we hate more, higher taxes or letting the frail elderly live in pain and poverty.

MightyKites

The 'similar programs' I was talking about are the fact that all covered in those welfare programs receive free healthcare and it is a major contributor in why they as a state are broke,

Under the current system, all those without health insurance (regardless of the state) receive "free healthcare" because hospitals spread the bad debt charges over those with insurance.  That problem is not isolated to California.  The coverage requirement is in there to specifically address this issue. 

SarahSmile23

Insurance companies earn minimal profits. The cost of healthcare has nothing to do with profits insurance companies earn and will not be impacted by mandated health insurance.

_Fenton

PS. "Elites" is just another word for "folks with more book learnin' than me."  The new tendency for conservatives view education with contempt is highly disturbing.

SarahSmile23

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:481582d6-fc91-4a65-bbd3-b534edfc5174">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]PS. "Elites" is just another word for "folks with more book learnin' than me."  The new tendency for conservatives view education with contempt is highly disturbing.
Posted by _Fenton[/QUOTE]
hahahahahaha. wow. 

_Fenton

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:adfbb7c2-8975-434c-98ff-76d2c811614e">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]Insurance companies earn minimal profits. The cost of healthcare has nothing to do with profits insurance companies earn and will not be impacted by mandated health insurance.
Posted by SarahSmile23[/QUOTE]

It doesn't matter what the margin is.  They still are expected to increase every year.  And then you count in the overhead for marketing, and the costs that the insurance companies have agreed to pay Big Pharma, who is certainly making bank.  In a perfect world, I'd like to see the pharmaceutical companies and health care companies prosecuted for racketeering. 

SarahBethBR

So by "similar programs" you meant programs that are not similar at all and that the majority of states already have?  Gotcha.  I'm sure the lowasfuck property taxes have nothing to do with CA's budget problems.

And I don't hate the tea party.  It's a convenient way for me to determine who is effing crazy.

Bush didn't cause the oil spill, silly.  Obama hit it with a torpedo so he could get his energy policy passed, duh.

lmydogally

I think blue eyed is talking about Healthy families which gives free health care to all children under a certain age.  It did not bankrupt CA.  Cutting of property taxes and increase in spending including paying six figure salaries to gov employees who do nothing but are classified as "advisors" over the last 20 something years is why were are in trouble.

She may also be thinking of the Ca Medical leave act which allows every woman to have paid leave after child birth or during pregnancy as it classified pregnancy as a disabilty and has been a wonderful thing. 

BobLoblaw

I love how everyone seems to forget that Mitt Romney was behind the MA plan. Good grief. And more than "giving people free health care", it forces insurance companies to offer lower-cost alternatives. How is that a bad thing?

_Fenton

There are also European plans that still use private insurance companies.  Germany is one example, and I believe Switzerland, too.  But the government pays them like contractors, and since everyone is lumped together, your premium price isn't a crapshoot of how much risk your fellow employees have racked up for you.

MightyKites

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:e5a59a33-67c4-4329-9dc3-5218586d52df">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]If the bill had included a national marketplace (instead of still keeping the state boundaries in tact) I would have been much happier.  National competition between companies should be in place and would drive prices down for health young adults.  Also, you'd probably see the creation of different types of plans with more options to make it more affordable. 
Posted by aprovencher21[/QUOTE]

Prices wouldn't decrease, the minimum standard of care would.  Don't you think that, if given the choice, insurance companies would flock to the state with the least requirements?  Why would an insurance company provide coverage in New York, where they'd be held to higher standards, i.e. providing dependent coverage to age 29 (as opposed to 23 now and 26 in the HCRA)?

Also, insurance plans are based on networks of providers.  A national marketplace would essentially kill all small, local insurance companies in favor of the giants.  Just to be clear, that's limiting choice. 

goheels05

I believe the question was something along the lines of "how do you feel about the new healthcare reform bill," not "how do you feel about healthcare reform in general."  So, we're not talking about Nixon's plan or Romney's plan, we are talking about what actually got passed.  Just because some of us recognize legitimate flaws in the current healthcare bill as it was passed doesn't mean we hate the fire department, public libraries, or even the idea of healthcare reform itself.  But I suppose it's much easier to rattle off the typical party lines than to actually have an informed discussion about it. 

BobLoblaw

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:b8ad520a-de2d-4e91-b5d4-0acd85bff06d">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]I believe the question was something along the lines of "how do you feel about the new healthcare reform bill," not "how do you feel about healthcare reform in general."  So, we're not talking about Nixon's plan or Romney's plan, we are talking about what actually got passed.  Just because some of us recognize legitimate flaws in the current healthcare bill as it was passed doesn't mean we hate the fire department, public libraries, or even the idea of healthcare reform itself.  But I suppose it's much easier to rattle off the typical party lines than to actually have an informed discussion about it. 
Posted by goheels05[/QUOTE]

Oh, get off it. The original post didn't mention wiener dogs either. And Romney's plan was mentioned early in this thread. "I post what I want!"

_Fenton

I was responding to other people's responses.  I didn't post my own feelings.  Personally, I don't like the bill because it continues to use private, for-profit insurance companies.

goheels05

All I'm saying is that a lot of those arguments are completely irrelevant.  If you came on here and said "but the health care reform bill eliminated preexisting condition exclusions and x, y, and z" I could get on board with that.  But instead you choose to fling underhanded insults at people just for disagreeing with you. 

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:b8ad520a-de2d-4e91-b5d4-0acd85bff06d">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]I believe the question was something along the lines of "how do you feel about the new healthcare reform bill," not "how do you feel about healthcare reform in general."  So, we're not talking about Nixon's plan or Romney's plan, we are talking about what actually got passed.  Just because some of us recognize legitimate flaws in the current healthcare bill as it was passed doesn't mean we hate the fire department, public libraries, or even the idea of healthcare reform itself.  But I suppose it's much easier to rattle off the typical party lines than to actually have an informed discussion about it. 
Posted by goheels05[/QUOTE]

This.

BobLoblaw

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:d416c16a-07ee-4fb3-a2dc-fa8840dafc18">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]  But instead you choose to fling underhanded insults at people just for disagreeing with you. 
Posted by goheels05[/QUOTE]

Oh, is this the nicey-nice board now? Please point to an insult that I've made in this thread. Thanks.

noisy_penguin

Bob, you can't respond to other people's responses that did not stick to the original topic of the post. This isn't Nam. There are rules.