Just Curious....

aprovencher21

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:b77cba22-8c80-4f46-81d8-47eadd3aa678">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]Biogen. Do a Google search on "biogen 2009 profits". It is the 2nd link. I am not sure the food/drug compasrison is valid. It doesn't have to cost $250 for a single meal. Yes, you can go out to a fancy steak place for dinner, but you could just as easily have a grilled cheese. Both will satisfy your hunger, but one doesn't have to cost as much as the other.
Posted by allisong23[/QUOTE]

Ah Biogen.  Biologics profits have to be huge.  Especially since you are just looking at profits and not where those profits go towards.  Biologics cost significantly more to manufacture, research, develop and monitor.  They need more profit to invest back into the company or you simply won't get further innovation.

For biolgics on average with a discount rate of 12% (which be being very very lenient) it takes 13 years for one medication to be productive and for the company to break even on the investment.

A decrease in profits of 10% leads directly to about a 20% investment in R&D.  One biologic plant built brand new costs on average $200-$500 million.  These are why these medications must be expensive.  You can't continue innovation if you aren't will to pay for it.  Also a large percentage of biologics that make it to Phase III clinical trials fail to get to market......this means billions of dollars lost.

ETA= a decrease in 10% of profits leads to a decrease of about 20% investment in R&D

aprovencher21

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:b77cba22-8c80-4f46-81d8-47eadd3aa678">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]Biogen. Do a Google search on "biogen 2009 profits". It is the 2nd link. I am not sure the food/drug compasrison is valid. It doesn't have to cost $250 for a single meal. Yes, you can go out to a fancy steak place for dinner, but you could just as easily have a grilled cheese. Both will satisfy your hunger, but one doesn't have to cost as much as the other.
Posted by allisong23[/QUOTE]

But some food choices are healthier and better satisfy your hunger.  Also, it doesn't cost billions to get you a grilled cheese.  My point is that they are both necessities (if one is going to argue that healthcare is a right) and businesses.

salt78

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:8c92780a-2602-4174-be3e-5922a80c81e0">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]You're a damn liar. Fresh Prince taught me that Philly was nothing but graffiti  and basketball courts.
Posted by jens_a_ten[/QUOTE]

Whenever I go to Philly I pretty much just chill out and max relax all cool.

But what do I know. I'm just a sad human being. *tear*

aprovencher21

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:96c6d4c7-50e5-48a9-80c4-2080eb6fe4c8">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just Curious.... : Whenever I go to Philly I pretty much just chill out and max relax all cool. But what do I know. I'm just a sad human being. *tear*
Posted by salt78[/QUOTE]

Well Philly is lovely for drinking.....

salt78

I know. My bfffff went to pharmacy school up there.

aprovencher21

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:9e351010-669a-4b51-bb29-0eeb236869c3">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]I know. My bfffff went to pharmacy school up there.
Posted by salt78[/QUOTE]

Really.......did she go to USP/PCP??

I'm sad cause I usually enjoy your posts in threads and find you very amusing and spot on =(

salt78

Not agreeing on something shouldn't make you sad.

And no, she went to Temple.

aprovencher21

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:9c704150-8b28-4ce6-a30e-8708b94d75ad">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]Not agreeing on something shouldn't make you sad. And no, she went to Temple.
Posted by salt78[/QUOTE]

=) I love Philly mainly for the resturants and alcohol.

Temple has a lovely program for pharmacy.  USP and Temple tend to somewhat compete.

salt78

Yep. She had a great experience there. And got a fantastic job right after she graduated. I'm so proud of her.

aprovencher21

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:5201ca0b-e2ce-4944-bb9d-f203739cdf48">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]Yep. She had a great experience there. And got a fantastic job right after she graduated. I'm so proud of her. :)
Posted by salt78[/QUOTE]

Awww its always nice to see supportive friends.  Its weird.  Planning a wedding has shown me some friends that were never really friends at all.

Quick/ weird question.  Do you ever go to the Octoberfest in Sept in Baltimore?  FI wants to go but I only want to travel if its very fun/good.

salt78

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:369bca2c-8e8b-4d22-b218-e5cd43cf8b9c">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just Curious.... : Awww its always nice to see supportive friends.  Its weird.  Planning a wedding has shown me some friends that were never really friends at all. Quick/ weird question.  Do you ever go to the Octoberfest in Sept in Baltimore?  FI wants to go but I only want to travel if its very fun/good.
Posted by aprovencher21[/QUOTE]

I haven't, but some of my friends went last year and they said it was pretty awesome. So we will probably go this year. Plus there will be beer. So there's that.

And yeah I had a friend like that. We don't speak anymore. I'm not sad about it.

aprovencher21

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:6935dfdb-55db-41f6-9f12-0fec11d0c0bc">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just Curious.... : I haven't, but some of my friends went last year and they said it was pretty awesome. So we will probably go this year. Plus there will be beer. So there's that. And yeah I had a friend like that. We don't speak anymore. I'm not sad about it.
Posted by salt78[/QUOTE]

Yes beer makes everything better.  FI likes to go all over for festivals....some are awesome and others suck.  I'm really not in the mood to take a weekend to visit a sucky festival.  We've been hitting a lot of the beerfests in NJ and PA recently.  So much fun.  If you come up to Philly to visit your friend and a beerfest is on on the Battle Ship NJ definitely go.  The beer and food is great.

Ya.  We're no longer friends either.  Kinda odd since she was the last person I expected to get all strange about the wedding.

salt78

Oh friend lives down here now. She moved back after she graduated. But I'm sure I'll still be up there at some point. DH loves Philly. And beer. And festivals.

I was totally expecting it in my situation. I guess that's why I'm so not upset about it.

aprovencher21

My Fi and mother expected my friend to act this way.  I was surprised so it kinda sucks. 

Beer and food are the perfect combination.  We actually just went two weekends ago to the international beer festival in Philly.  Actually liked some Japanese beers this time around.

kikibaby

Well, this long ass thread has certainly been enlightening.  I learned that aprovencher (who I previously had no problem with) is an incredibly condescending biitch!  Good to know.

aprovencher21

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:be128c9d-2c60-42ff-973a-e41f92ebe827">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]Well, this long ass thread has certainly been enlightening.  I learned that aprovencher (who I previously had no problem with) is an incredibly condescending biitch!  Good to know.
Posted by kikibaby[/QUOTE]

Gee thanks Kiki......

 I think thats totally uncalled for and really shitty.  You don't like my opinion thats fine.  Condescending??  All I did was make my point and offer proof against this bill and why I think it will hurt the general public overall. 

kikibaby

So... none of these things seem condescending to you?:

n Response to Re: Just Curious.... : Do you actually have any logic or argument in terms of proof to offer to this discussion??  No? Okay then.
Posted by aprovencher21

In Response to Re: Just Curious.... : What no ability to intelligently argue what's wrong with pharmaceutical companies?? Have any sources or really even understand the business?  Probably not. 
Posted by aprovencher21

In Response to Re: Just Curious.... :  Do you even understand how an insurance risk pool works??  Probably not.....
Posted by aprovencher21

kikibaby

I'm not going to argue the health care bill, but they way you have been reacting to the things that other people say is just so... defensive, and again, condescending. 

Anyway, I'm off to bed.

aprovencher21

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:1033a70c-3271-4e4e-99b2-61ea5bf63176">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]So... none of these things seem condescending to you?: n Response to Re: Just Curious.... : Do you actually have any logic or argument in terms of proof to offer to this discussion??  No? Okay then. Posted by aprovencher21 In Response to Re: Just Curious.... : What no ability to intelligently argue what's wrong with pharmaceutical companies?? Have any sources or really even understand the business?  Probably not.  Posted by aprovencher21 In Response to Re: Just Curious.... :  Do you even understand how an insurance risk pool works??  Probably not..... Posted by aprovencher21
Posted by kikibaby[/QUOTE]

Seriously??

Most of you regulars act like this on a regular basis, if not worse.  Also, I didn't act condescending until people started calling those of us cold hearted bitches since we don't like the new healthcare reform bill and assuming we don't give a crap about our fellow man.  Those same people then couldn't support their points or answer questions.... since when is this the nice, sweet and hugs boards?

aprovencher21

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:568ffb6b-d2f9-4793-85d9-7c7a68281b0c">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm not going to argue the health care bill, but they way you have been reacting to the things that other people say is just so... defensive, and again, condescending.  Anyway, I'm off to bed.
Posted by kikibaby[/QUOTE]

Also, notice not once did I come in and start calling people names.  So if I'm a condescending bitch for defending my points I'm not sure what you are for randomly popping in and calling me a bitch.

allisong23

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:be128c9d-2c60-42ff-973a-e41f92ebe827">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]Well, this long ass thread has certainly been enlightening.  I learned that aprovencher (who I previously had no problem with) is an incredibly condescending biitch!  Good to know.
Posted by kikibaby[/QUOTE]

Absolutely uncalled for. I have been debating with aprovencher on health care, and I think it was a respectful dialogue., and I don't agree with her opinions at all. Maybe if you had tried to debate it in the same way, you would be thinking differently. I love how you come into the discussion late and pass judgements on people. This last post made you look like the bitch, sweetie.

MamaKin

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:c8e0be68-8ca4-43a5-9db3-dff1c1de1790">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE] I get that the drugs are expensive.....do you even understand why they are?  Because when you factor in capitalized costs, losses, investment etc. it takes $1.5 BILLION to get a drug to market.  If you want new innovations to come along you have to pay for the old ones.  I won't tell you what my meds cost a month.... The point is I understand the necessity for the cost and am willing to pay it.  I pay my own insurance and for my medications.  So should we bankrupt the big pharma companies so they cannot keep investing back into new drugs??  There is a very thin line that pharma companies work with between having enough to invest back into R&D because innovation begins to slow. I'm sorry you have MS but I am not sorry your drugs are expensive. 

<strong>I work for a pharmaceutical company.</strong>  

  <strong>I'm not saying companies are perfect =) I just don't think they are any worse than any other corporation.
</strong>Posted by aprovencher21[/QUOTE]

I was waiting for this.  "I work for pharma, you guys, so I know how it really works."  I, too, work for a big pharma company.  Posting from the corporate office right now.  If you are defending big pharmas exhorbitant revenues by saying it's all going back into R&D, you are insane.  Our CEO was compensated $13 million last year...  his salary was a 20-something% INCREASE from the previous year.  Yet right before my very eyes, I am watching hundreds of people (lifers here!) get canned with little to no severence (we're only about 500 cuts deep into the previously announced 5,000).  And this guy gets a 20% raise in his take-home pay??  $13 million could be the annual salary of 160 employees (you know, the ones who do the R&D).  The "cost cutting" they do around here is disgusting, especially for a company that used to be known taking care of their employees.  Morale is at an all-time low.  And they are still pulling near-record profits (the 5% drop this quarter is almost all because of administrative costs with the new health bill, not any actual sacrifice on the company's part).   And we're about to lose a bunch of patents, so we're scrambling because it's about to get worse.  I'm not really losing any sleep about big pharma being bankrupted, and I think it's ridiculous to chastize people who complain about the high cost of their medications as thought they simply "don't understand" how it all works.   It's pretty simple - It's all about the $$$.  People, health, patient outcomes...  all secondary. 

salt78

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:796c0e34-a010-4c91-bfc6-75a921c3b342">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just Curious.... :  since when is this the nice, sweet and hugs boards?
Posted by aprovencher21[/QUOTE]

<div>I've been asking myself this question for a little while now. Shame really.</div><div>Oh look. We're agreeing on something else besides beer.</div><div>
</div>

HappyTummy613

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:0014d9ce-1226-4d94-8285-1bcff967c89c">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just Curious.... : Absolutely uncalled for. I have been debating with aprovencher on health care, and I think it was a respectful dialogue., and I don't agree with her opinions at all. Maybe if you had tried to debate it in the same way, you would be thinking differently. I love how you come into the discussion late and pass judgements on people. This last post made you look like the bitch, sweetie.
Posted by allisong23[/QUOTE]

You know it's gotten serious when someone breaks out the "sweetie."

allisong23

Hey, if she wated to play the condenscending card, I'll show her how it is done. If this was a face to face conversation, I would have added the head tilt.

HappyTummy613

I bet that would put her in her place.

_Fenton

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:8ef0116a-61be-4eca-b14c-df27eac9f016">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just Curious.... : Around here, only private hospitals can require you to prove insurance in the ER (and that is only if you are there for a non-life threatening problem).  Public hospitals have to see and treat you regardless.  They are not allowed to 'show you the door' just because you are not insured.  I dont know if it is the same everywhere else.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

Yes, I know all that.  Which is why I was being sarcastic.  Go back and read more closely.

And Apro is a grad student!  Please, 23 year-old female with no health problems who may or may not have ever had to get insurance other than through her parents, tell us more about the abundance of choice in health care!  Yes, I understand risk pools, and they are an arbitrary, bullsh!t way of providing a service.  I worked in a four person office awhile back and when one of the other people got cancer, everyone else's premiums skyrocketed.  It was especially nice for my boss whose husband was unemployed and they had four kids!

HappyTummy613

To be fair, she actually does have some health problems.

boxerfan

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:8121c831-cd2f-46d9-9279-b4f2e3d5a181">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]To be fair, she actually does have some health problems.
Posted by HappyTummy613[/QUOTE]
which just makes her point of view that much more confusing.

allisong23

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_just-curious-4?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:15d0fa8b-c393-4695-bed5-d6923fe80662Post:3c0a6c0c-9018-4c65-9633-908c56b195f9">Re: Just Curious....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just Curious.... : . And Apro is a grad student!  Please, 23 year-old female with no health problems who may or may not have ever had to get insurance other than through her parents, tell us more about the abundance of choice in health care!  Yes, I understand risk pools, and they are an arbitrary, bullsh!t way of providing a service. 
Posted by _Fenton[/QUOTE]

While  I agree with you about the risk pools, I don't think leukemia = no health problems. I also thimk that she and others might think difrentlly if she didn''t work for Big Pharma, and she had to face her medical problems without insurance. It's easy to say that you don't want to pay towards getting other people insurance when you have insurance. My cousin declared bankruptcy at 19 after being diagnosed with Lyme Disease when she didn't have insurance and racked up $60,000 in medical bills.